High Seas Update: Treasure Chests & MIB Treasures

JollyJade

Dot_Warner said:

Regarding solo v group *facepalm emoji* This is an MMO. One of those Ms stands for multiplayer. This isn’t a standalone game you dink around in by yourself. Higher-end content shouldn’t be designed with lone players in mind. I have no problem with a L5 or 6 requiring multiple active participants. We should be encouraging group play and the associated community spirit.

Dot_Warner said:

Get a Spellweaving III   

Oh the irony Maybe you see it yourself.

Reality though is, a lot of "groups" are just multiple accounts run by the same player.

The main problem is that UO has no matchmaking queue, so if you don't have a group on hand in UO, you are locked out of the content.

Also the other M in MMOs stands for massive. Massive like in "10 players tops" (party).

In the end it will make the content more exclusive to those people with multiple accounts and just lock those with a single account out of the content.

Dizzy

@Kyronix Please don't add Remove Trap.  Please let me continue to do treasure hunts like I've been doing them for 19 years.  I enjoy them.  I solo them because I can't get a group together in the 20 minutes a day I play.  So I do a treasure map.  I've never done the roof or Exodus or any of the dungeon encounters because I don't have a group.  Treasure hunting is my own personal dungeon.

I'm all in favor of making skills useful, including Remove Trap.  But if it becomes a part of treasure hunting - even to access some sort of secret compartment - then I'll be forced to add Remove Trap and change my template which is already cramped.  I don't want to "miss out" on this secret loot.  Even if you think it's an optional skill, it becomes mandatory, else the treasure map isn't fully enjoyed.

Use Remove Trap on dungeon chest and any place else.  But please don't add it to treasure chests.

Sphyr
Guildmaster of Treasure Hunters of Britannia (THB)
Lake Superior

Dizzy

@Kyronix In short, I welcome improvements to the treasure hunting experience.

But please don't make changes to the treasure hunter.

Merus

Kyronix said:

Merus said:

Kyronix said:

Merus said:

Personally, and for what I would assume for most treasure hunters, we have already adapted to leaving mining off of our templates since we have the locker.  Adding in RT as the only means to get the new bonus will not be a trade between mining and RT, it will be a trade between another skill (most likely combat related) in order to fit it in.

I am personally not of fan of adding more skill requirements for the sake of mechanics (Cartography, mining, DH, RT, and lock picking) that serve only to find and open a chest.  I just don’t feel like those “mechanics” add to the fun of a map, they just add complexity and some tedium.

In reality what you are saying is that the entire T-Map process has been reduced to an exercise in killing the guardians and snagging the loot.  If we remove the "hunt" part of it, all that's left is the treasure.  Half the fun of opening a treasure is the hunt of finding it, somewhere along the way we lost that.  Getting some of that back shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing.

I’m just not seeing how training up another skill whose only purpose in the entire process (or game) is to add another layer of complexity for a single character to open a chest adds to the “hunt”.

For solo maps all that you’ve added changed is using remove trap instead of telekinesis... at the cost of 100 skill points.  I don’t see any additional “fun” in that for the solo maps.

For the more difficult group maps, you’ve relegated what was already a tight template (to be both able to dig up the chest, open it, and participate in the fighting) into another mule character that will be brought in on an extra account and hidden off screen while the battle with the guardians takes place.

I do understand that you want treasure hunts to feel like a more immersive experience, I just don’t think adding another skill that will be trained up far from a treasure map and translates into a few more mouse clicks in a context menu accomplishs that.

Perhaps instead of requiring the RT skill, a trap removal kit could drop on one of the guardians corpses.  Like the feather in the belfry.  Just an idea that would mirror the effect you’re talking about to remove the trap without the skill investment?

Right now the skill has no purpose, which offers a unique opportunity to explore some novel applications for it to become useful in a system that makes thematic sense.  I'm not talking about adding a "few clicks to the context menu" I'm looking at something more immersive and robust than that.  Think along the lines of plague beasts and power generators.  That's where we can add to the hunt.  I'm not saying every chest has it - but think about it?  If I'm a Dread Pirate burying my very best loot, I'm going to make sure that the booty is protected and being a trap expert is going to give you the skills to overcome that protection. 

"Fun" is a subjective perspective.  If there's a trapped compartment inside the chest and I have to figure out a mechanic to gain access to a reward, and my Remove Trap skill is going to offer me a leg up on that mechanic - that's fun to me, may be fun for others, may not be fun for you.  So it's kind of a hard to use "make it fun" as a true barometer.  

I'm confused about your statement here, 

"For the more difficult group maps, you’ve relegated what was already a tight template (to be both able to dig up the chest, open it, and participate in the fighting) into another mule character that will be brought in on an extra account and hidden off screen while the battle with the guardians takes place."

By the very definition of a group map, you are doing the chest with multiple people.  At that point a utility template for participating in the hunt makes sense, but that's not what the encounter is.  Let's break it down...

-You need to decode the map with Cartography.
-You already know exactly where to go to get the chest via Davies locker, or just looking at the map depending on the client you are using.  No real need for mining to help find it.
-You need lockpicking to unlock the chest.
-You don't need anything except telekinesis and 4 tiles to avoid the traps - which means the traps are pointless at this point.
 
So really the only "treasure hunting" is decoding a map you'll know the exact location of, unlocking a locked chest and dry looting it in what is really not very treasure-hunty but rather a combat encounter.  You are 100% right - the T-Hunter is a mule character, moving the needle in the other way to make it a viable and engaging profession is a goal.

The goal should always be to reward skill investment - that's one of the core principles of the game world.  We've gotten too far away from that and moving the needle in the other direction should be welcome.

Just a couple responses:

I’ve been playing since 1998.  I have a treasure hunter and have done thousands of maps, both solo and with a group.  I can tell you without a doubt that the most fun I’ve ever had doing maps was back when a L5 map took a group of players to complete.  But let’s look at how maps have actually been done:

Cartography:  use a soulstone to add Cartography, decode the map, put Cartography back on the stone.  Some have adapted a powerful enough template that they can leave Cartography on and still defeat the guardians.

Mining:  completely circumvented by players either through run ebook libraries or the Davies Locker.  Using mining to “hunt” for the map has always been an option, however the vast majority have worked around this because it wasn’t “fun”.

Lockpicking: much like Cartography.  Swap with soulstones.

Remove Trap:  like mining this step has been completely circumvented by players by telekinesis or simply taking the damage.  Using RT skill has always been an option, but players went another route because it wasn’t “fun”.

To my point earlier, the group level 5 maps weren’t fun because we all sat there watching someone pick the lock.  It wasn’t a fun group activity because we all stood there while the traps were disarmed.  It was fun because the guardians were hard and we had to play together to defeat them.

As far as the group with a utility player... yes, having a group does make it easier for there to be one player in the group with all the skills related to just the chest.  However, IMO, that player ends up being mostly left out of the fighting, which is the biggest part of doing the map.  From thousands and thousands of hours of playing my experience says that most people want to participate in that part... so someone brings multiple accounts to have the utility player and someone to fight if they can’t do both with the same account.

I get that you’re looking for a way to make RT relevant again in terms of treasure hunting.  Thinking outside the box here... what if rather than needing the skill on the character present at the chest, a trap removal kit was something that was a craftable by someone with the RT skill?  Then any player could bring one (or several) along if they wanted to try and remove the traps.  This would give the skill a use specific to maps, but would leave the vast majority of map hunter templates alone.

Drakelord

@Faeryl

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Little confused here are you running vet or eval?  Stoning off vet for eval?? 

Bilbo

Pawain said:

Bilbo said:

I am not trying to start any crap but why should a top T-Map/chest require more than one person when basically nothing else does.  If they are going to do this with T-Maps then they should consider doing it with all champ spawns or put PSs (all lvls) in FEL T-Maps.  Anything that requires more than 1 person to do needs to have the top tier rewards.

I think they should be able to be done like they are now.  But if a group must be used.  A group of two is doable.  

There are many T hunters that play solo and have for many years. Many of those do not want to use chat to get help.

@Kyronix was just throwing out what ifs and said having the high end T-Maps needing a group effort and I still think that if this is done than they should have the top tier loot as everything in UO currently is solo able.

Bilbo

Kyronix said:

TimSt said:

With the following template I can solo level 6 with a couple of deaths.

Magery: 120
Eval Intel: 120
Meditation: 100
Resist Spells: 100
Inscription: 100
Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap: 100
Focus: 80

With some of the purposed changes "Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap" would become "Cartography with Lock Pick swap then with Remove Trap swap then with Detect Hidden Swap"?  Am I reading the thread right?

This illustrates pretty clearly how far off the rails treasure hunting has become.  This isn’t a treasure hunter template.  What I’m suggesting is that while you still will be able to complete some treasure maps with this template, you won’t be able to complete all - at least not with a little help from some friends who utilize the traditional treasure hunting skills as something other than some stone-off skills to go through arbitrary motions.

Please post what you consider a "traditional treasure hunting skills" template and do you think your template would be able to solo lower lvl T-Maps with the proposed changes.

steedafla

@Kyronix , Do you plan to put in any fixes for the locations that treasure chests spawn?  I consistently do them and its annoying when the circle of transparency doesn't reveal the location of the chest due to multiple stacking trees.

Could you also look into putting in a fix or adjustment for when you can't pull loot from the chest due to something being in the way (usually a corpse)?  It's very frustrating doing circles around the chest because of where the enemies die and trying to find another spot to loot the chest.

Lastly, could you add in a fix for the large chest gump in the Classic Client?  Since some of the chests have over 50 items, it would be easier to sort through.

Thank you!

Swroberts

UO fishing and SOS hunting was my first love... Landing that chest of unidentified items, looking at each item and hoping for silver weapons, back in '99 that was pretty thrilling. But for the last 10 years or so... There is no magic.... It was always the excitement of what is inside, and now you know exactly what's inside...so grab the gold and trash the chests  So now, SOS, for me is an easy way to get turnin points for some item I want from the cleanup....
1.  I love wearing shipwreck boots... Can we get that moniker on items in the chest... Maybe even clean imbueable armor pieces or other usablle items inithe game.
2. How about replica type drops in legendary SOS's... I.e. Barnacle Encrusted Slither... 150 durability...no repair....that's just an example... I would prefer only artifacts that are no longer attainable... And I don't think there will be a market flood, at 1 in 25 SOS's being lenendary, and the evil uo rng... The chance would be some really small math number. 
3. Christ, do something about scalis...that is just a painful grind... Again the math of 1 in 25 SOS's to have a 1 in 4 chance.... He could use a bump down on his resists ... Bump up his drop rate.... something...
4. Dump regs and gems... Replace with more imbuing ingredients... 
5. Generally I would like to wear stuff only being a fisherman would get me... 

LilyGrace

I'm going back to loot. ;-) I'm always a little afraid to make loot wish lists because I know my propensity for, at least in my head, making very long lists. Then I'll start adding items that require new game mechanics. Pretty soon I'm creating Lily's World. No good can come of it!

That said...
 I know we have footwear! We've all fished up plenty of it. So far there's very little footwear that players seek, or that offer much variety for filling that slot. I know we have the 2% resist to poison with the snakeskin boots. There's 2% to cold. Crafters can make cu sidhe pads. I know I'm missing some but overall there's not much out there.

Might be fun to have a chance at finding more variety and more desirable properties added to footwear. I've always thought 2% was chintzy. I'm sure there's a way to offer better variety and greater impact in a way that's balanced. 

Why not a better boost than 2% for all resists? Pick your resist footwear based on what you're going to go fight. Why not boosts to skills as well? Rogue's Slippers give a boost to Hiding and Stealth. Archer's Sandals. Fishing Boots. Cook's Clogs. Spiked this...Bladed that...

They could be delivered as drops or recipes, found in MIB / Thunter Chests. Or they could be fished up like Scales and Pearls as you're moving along fishing (with a system message and perhaps a different color assigned to them, setting them apart from shoes you'd feed a goat). Fished up pre-treasure and drop on monsters that spawn with chests.

  

Faeryl

Drakelord said:

@ Faeryl

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Little confused here are you running vet or eval?  Stoning off vet for eval?? 

Generally eval for lower end chests where I can pick stuff off with my pets help, or vet for higher end chests where the guardians take longer to kill, and without med, vet becomes the more reliable source of healing.

That however doesn't mean that I don't still use magic in tandem with vet for an extra boost when needed.

Toriana

With the following template I solo level 6 maps on a regular basis with few deaths. 
Cartography 100
Lockpicking 100
Mining 90
Magery 100
Evaluating Intelligence 100
Mysticism 120
Focus 110
I have jewelry that helps bring up magery to 115 (yet to cough out the money for a 120 magery). I separate out the tougher guardians and use an RC to take them out one at a time. I use magery to invis a LOT and to cast spells or cast EVs against some of the guardians. 
i thoroughly enjoy doing level 7 maps with groups especially when there is a tamer to lore and tame nice pets

KHAN

One thing I would really like to see in the "new" treasure chests is a recipe for the Krampus Whips! If not that, then how about the actual whip added to the "possible" loot in higher end maps? I think the ability to make/loot enough to reforge some elemental damage ones would be a big hit! How about it @Kyronix ?

popps

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

As I understand it, you are using

110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

popps

Urge said:

Kyronix not to jump off topic but while you're doing this, could you revamp dungeon chests. Maybe detect to find them and make it a little worthwhile to open. Thank you. 

And since the Developers are at it, perhaps also bring back to work the Khaldun Puzzle Chests which, I seem to understand, are no longer working ?

popps

KHAN said:

@ Kyronix Whatever happens, I would LOVE to be able to see the location coordinates ON THE MAP, in CC. Instead of having to write them all down when I take them from the Davies Locker. It is a MESS if you die trying to remember which map belongs with which set of coordinates. But if I am wishing, how about a "grid view" for CC. I hate having to switch to EC just to sort the loot.

Don't we have already a similar system working with the Global Vendors Search Maps ?

Once we get a Map to a vendor, doesn't it already show the coordinates to that vendor ?

Faeryl

popps said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

As I understand it, you are using

110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

KHAN

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

As I understand it, you are using

110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

I THINK what he is referring to, is the fact that some of the masteries use less mana, etc at 120 real skill as opposed to skill with jewels. One that comes to mind is the taming mastery when using consume damage. The mana upkeep to keep it "running" is much less at 120 with REAL skill in Taming/Lore, as opposed to,say, 90 or 100 real skill, with jewels to get to 120.

Faeryl

KHAN said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

As I understand it, you are using

110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

I THINK what he is referring to, is the fact that some of the masteries use less mana, etc at 120 real skill as opposed to skill with jewels. One that comes to mind is the taming mastery when using consume damage. The mana upkeep to keep it "running" is much less at 120 with REAL skill in Taming/Lore, as opposed to,say, 90 or 100 real skill, with jewels to get to 120.

If that's the case... go with say 120 taming and lore and use jewelry to boost another skill up a bit.

There are logical and effective options.

KHAN

Faeryl said:

KHAN said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

As I understand it, you are using

110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

I THINK what he is referring to, is the fact that some of the masteries use less mana, etc at 120 real skill as opposed to skill with jewels. One that comes to mind is the taming mastery when using consume damage. The mana upkeep to keep it "running" is much less at 120 with REAL skill in Taming/Lore, as opposed to,say, 90 or 100 real skill, with jewels to get to 120.

If that's the case... go with say 120 taming and lore and use jewelry to boost another skill up a bit.

There are logical and effective options.

That is exactly what I do. I was just pointing out, that, for once, he was correct. You DON'T use their "full potential" at less than 120 real skill.

Faeryl

KHAN said:

Faeryl said:

KHAN said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

As I understand it, you are using

110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

I THINK what he is referring to, is the fact that some of the masteries use less mana, etc at 120 real skill as opposed to skill with jewels. One that comes to mind is the taming mastery when using consume damage. The mana upkeep to keep it "running" is much less at 120 with REAL skill in Taming/Lore, as opposed to,say, 90 or 100 real skill, with jewels to get to 120.

If that's the case... go with say 120 taming and lore and use jewelry to boost another skill up a bit.

There are logical and effective options.

That is exactly what I do. I was just pointing out, that, for once, he was correct. You DON'T use their "full potential" at less than 120 real skill.

Yeah, my comment was more directed towards him as a response. 

Though to be fair, not even UO.com states that fact. I'm looking at it now and the most it has to say is certain skills like combat training allow tamer to "add combat abilities to their pet based on animal taming skill, animal lore skill, and mastery level"

No where is mana requirements being lowered based on skill mentioned.

Bilbo

a

KHAN

@Faeryl For consume damage, at 120 real skill in Taming AND Lore, the mana upkeep is 3 mana per "tick". Without digging out a tamer that is less than 120'd, I remember the upkeep being either 6 or 12, per tick, at 90 real skill in both. 

If you play in CC, pull up the "buff bar" and start running consume damage on a pet. Mouse over the consume damage "icon". It will tell you the mana upkeep cost. If you are 120 in Taming AND Lore, it will be 3 per tick. If your tamer isn't real 120's it WILL be higher. 

Trust me on this.

Tim

At the risk of getting back on topic

Rather than increasing the loot for using remove trap why not change the trap damage penalty? If the trap is triggered more damage to all players and pets in the aria with a chance the commotion summoning more guardians over time. Also maybe a chance the trap has armor ignore or one shot kill built in to the top levels.

I can see myself in a group of ghosts with dead pets and more guardians showing up trying to decide if I'm should be cursing or laughing.

Under this idea you could still work solo without remove trap but would avoid having loot creep. Just check for the nearest healer before casting telekinesis.

Basara

@Kyronix

I speak as a guildmaster for a THB chapter.

Adding Remove Trap as a REQUIREMENT for T-Maps is a deal-killer. 99.999% of T-hunter templates are too cramped as it is. There's probably less people with it on their characters outside SP & Mugen than you WORK WITH (and if you count people with it on a soulstone, it still probably won't come up to the BS employees + EMs). 

Making Telekinesis not work is perfectly fine, but if someone wants to risk death by popping the chest without removing the trap, they should still be allowed to do so.

As it is, level 2 chests STILL do more damage than any other level (that bug was never fixed - I've seen a level 2 chest (both paragon and map) do 120+ to someone with 70s resists - and have NEVER died to any other level of chest from the trap), and if you could isolate what causes it, perhaps applying that level of damage for all maps level 3-7 would encourage some people to use remove trap. 

Adding the skill as a REQUIREMENT, though (at least for maps level 6 and under), would be as short-sighted as the original High Seas Cannon Supplies coding for making the powder charges from scratch - if not more so. It's a sure-fire way to KILL the profession. It would delay actual USE of the changes to the maps for MONTHS, off the "hard-mode" shards, as NO ONE HAS THE SKILL on those shards, except as a curiosity kept on a display soulstone (often one that they found on an IDOC, not one they can use).

Pawain

Faeryl said:100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

Completely incorrect. Only some passives are primer based. The mastery cost to run and benefit increase are real skill.  

People like you giving wrong info in this thread are going to make it so casual players that have done maps for 18 plus years are not going to be able to do them.

Please get your facts straight.

It takes all four Bard skills at 120 to get the least mana cost and most benefit.

Here is a calculator for taming masteries. https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

Merus

@Basara

I tend to agree with your assessment regarding making the skill a present requirement to get the best loot out of a map... both in terms of messing up templates and, if history is to be taken into account, a bit of a grind/clickfest like cannon firing is.

I’m not sure there is going to be much we can do about the mechanics of how they implement the trap removal process, but I am hoping we might get them to move off the requirement to have the skill present on the character at the actual chest (as to save the constant back and forth for soulstone swapping).  My suggestion was a trap removal kit that someone with remove trap skill could create... add it to the tinker menu with 0 tinker skill requirement and scalable success rate based on the remove trap skill... think repair contract... once it’s created, anyone can use it on a chest.  This gives remove trap skill a use, leaves treasure hunter templates alone, and gives the developers a chance to add their “immersive” trap removal process.  Heck, you could even add the “parts” to craft the kit to the treasure maps to create a little product lifecycle.

I am certainly open to other ideas, but I think to move them off the skill requirement we are going to need a little consensus on an alternative idea.

Faeryl

Pawain said:

Faeryl said:100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

Completely incorrect. Only some passives are primer based. The mastery cost to run and benefit increase are real skill.  

People like you giving wrong info in this thread are going to make it so casual players that have done maps for 18 plus years are not going to be able to do them.

Please get your facts straight.

It takes all four Bard skills at 120 to get the least mana cost and most benefit.

Here is a calculator for taming masteries. https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

I'm not intentionally giving wrong info. From what I read in terms of the taming masteries I saw nothing that stated that fact. Read the later comments where I had further discussion with Khan before making statements as such.

Plus, people have been doing treasure maps since long before masteries were even around. They don't make or break the ability to do treasure maps.

Pawain

So why do you want to add difficulty and more things to the template?  The loot is not going to increase much.  I asked how the loot would be divided. He said the T hunter will dole it out.  That means the loot is still going to be lesser in value than other encounters.

Kyronix

Basara said:

@ Kyronix

I speak as a guildmaster for a THB chapter.

Adding Remove Trap as a REQUIREMENT for T-Maps is a deal-killer. 99.999% of T-hunter templates are too cramped as it is. There's probably less people with it on their characters outside SP & Mugen than you WORK WITH (and if you count people with it on a soulstone, it still probably won't come up to the BS employees + EMs). 

Making Telekinesis not work is perfectly fine, but if someone wants to risk death by popping the chest without removing the trap, they should still be allowed to do so.

As it is, level 2 chests STILL do more damage than any other level (that bug was never fixed - I've seen a level 2 chest (both paragon and map) do 120+ to someone with 70s resists - and have NEVER died to any other level of chest from the trap), and if you could isolate what causes it, perhaps applying that level of damage for all maps level 3-7 would encourage some people to use remove trap. 

Adding the skill as a REQUIREMENT, though (at least for maps level 6 and under), would be as short-sighted as the original High Seas Cannon Supplies coding for making the powder charges from scratch - if not more so. It's a sure-fire way to KILL the profession. It would delay actual USE of the changes to the maps for MONTHS, off the "hard-mode" shards, as NO ONE HAS THE SKILL on those shards, except as a curiosity kept on a display soulstone (often one that they found on an IDOC, not one they can use).

The lack of use for Remove Trap doesn't suprise me - it's been a dead skill almost since its arrival due to the lack of anything of consequence related to traps.

I'd have to disagree with your point of "risking" death.  The amount of "risk" in death is very small, if at all, given the staying power of your loot on a corpse.  Sure there are minor exceptions but in whole death isn't a risk should someone wish to blow themselves up.  The hilarity of the thought is not lost however!

As I've mentioned before were we to make any meaningful changes to Remove Trap the entire skill would be up for balance from top to bottom - this includes removing the requirement for Detecting Hidden in any context, the training path, the success rates, and how the skill behaves within the context of the game world.  This would result in whatever issues currently exist with traps to be resolved in the effort.

I will disagree with your assertion regarding any change as "killing the profession."

Consider this,

Cartography is not required beyond initial decoding. 
Mining is not required due to advances in UI/Davie's Locker.
Remove Trap is not required because of Telekenesis.  
Lockpicking (in some instances) isn't required.

What we are left with then?  Where's the actual "Treasure Hunter" profession in this scenario?  What distinguishes this particular template from one you can use to fight any other encounter in the game world?

Couple of questions I've posed elsewhere and am curious to see your (and anyone's) response...

What is the skill breakdown of your Treasure Hunter before, during, and after the entire Treasure Chest encounter?

Do you participate in Treasure Chest Encounters as a solo activity or in a group?

What items are you most after when it comes to Treasure Chest loot?

Were you to train Remove Trap, regardless of context, what do you feel the training time should feel close to - Cartography? Alchemy? Animal Taming (eep!)

Thanks for the replies!