Pre-AoS Stun

hunter11

Cookie said:

I can see @ lynk and @ george points.

Wrestling mastery is underpowered. The game could maybe use a proper stun for mages - afterall, they cannot dismount easily. It would counter dismount nicely. Make players move away from this.

It would also promote cross healing and teamwork.

There is a lack of diversity in the game, imo, everything is a Dexxer these days - ie, due to the extraordinary amount of Dex they have. Be it a Dexxer with Magery, or a Mage with Dexterity - all the same thing, it's all merged together. Even Parry Mages with 80+ Dex are Dexxers - imo - strange opinion I know, but you cannot persuade me otherwise. For a Pure Mage, that Dexterity is required in Mana, to actually cast a decent amount of spells.

I'm not going to get into another argument with @ covenantx , I get his point that dexxers hitting players with parry is frustrating - but the truth is a. everyone is a dexxer {even the mages with their Dex/Boks etc} and b. everyone has parry because they have to, and c. it only takes 1 overpowered special from a dexxer to change a fight, so it doesn't matter if they miss 10 times, and get 1 dismount/nerve strike/splinter/deathstrike/lethal poison, the fight is almost over.

What would be good, would be to promote a character style, that does not need such high Dexterity - like the old fashioned mages. Making Wrestle Mastery more useful could help, and could maybe reduce Dexxers(everyone)/Parry.

I'd be okay with a 2 second stun and thats big if you hit that followed by a splinter because said mage is going to stun then disarm the person and I main a squishy archer parry and evasion are fine no problem the problem is how a person with wrestling can disarm non stop to where there is no point in a dexxer to fight them no timer like with a weapon probably because wrestling isnt that great but its too overpowered considering they can just get in your face and constantly remove your weapon... but 4 seconds lol we know how group fights would go and im sure unless a lot more tele rings pop up that would be a harmful addition to pvp

Lynk

Nerve is always breakable.  

LearnMe

CovenantX said:

LearnMe said:

Anyway, the point is there should be an unbreakable stun, around the 2s mark for wrestling.  It's dumb to suggest that I should be able to hit a 30+ damage unbreakable stun with a viking sword.  You want an option to thin out the use of bokutos and the like, you don't give the same weapon class an unbreakable stun that let's them to continue to have full defensive capabilities with a damaging stun.  Pretty simple.

   Swords already has a stun that's mostly unbreakable & consistently hits for ~30 damage.  it's called nerve strike, perhaps you've heard of it?   it's only being used by 95% of the templates in pvp today.... and um, that's on a weapon with the fastest base weapon speed of 2s. 

So... what would be "OP" about wrestling & all melee weapon skills receiving a 2s stun without the extra direct damage that is already possible with nerve?      

or is it you think wrestling 2s stun would be useless if weapons could get the same thing, because weapons' deal damage?    

The mastery would be required to gain the benefit of 'stun' with weapons & wrestling, if you don't run the weapon skill or wrestling mastery, you have para-blow instead.   

The whole reason for this suggestion is to make trap boxes (mostly scripts) less effective, is it not?    or is it really as obvious as it looks.. your group of 5+ wants a 4s stun because it'll make it easier to sync-dump people?

I've answered this several times.  Pay close attention and I'll answer it once more.  

What can't you do if it requires wrestling and bare hands?  Parry or evade.

What can you do if you give the special to all weapon classes?  Parry and evade.

What is it that you and Higgs cry about nonstop?  Parry and evade.  Do you want smaller words?  Having it specific to wrestling means you give up parry and evasion while you try to land it.  

Are you really struggling to grasp this?  Nerve strike is not "mostly unbreakable."  If it can be broken, it's breakable.  In fact, it's been brought up that you can time boxing out of a nerve strike and cast a spell on the run.  

And the fact you said it's almost always not worth boxing out of a nerve is laughable.  You're adamant that nerve strike is "mostly unbreakable" and then turn right around and say you choose not to break it?  Why wouldn't you take a 4 damage box tick to avoid being nerve'd again for 40+ damage?  

LearnMe

The_Higgs_1 said:

And how many dexxers are you fighting everyday with your 10+ team @ LearnMe???  Im guessing less then 5% of the fights.  Yet somehow you think your argument is right about elemental weapons and endless mana?!?!  If you cant manage to snyc dump someone in this current meta with the numbers you run, maybe try checkers.  Our group does it without evade with 3-4 people.   

Super offense plus uber defense on mages ++ The recently used 3rd party programs(3-4 years) is why you are ignorant to actual pvp issues.  If you think what you been doing mindlessly on Atl for the past 4 years is pvp your completely lost on any pvp conversation.

The only shard we sometimes find you hiding on, we don't have more than 6 players with a character on.  

The bulk of what we fight revolve around dexxers.  The bulk of our offense revolves around good dexxers.  The only good group of players we face on any shard runs half dexxers/half mages and it revolves completely around disarms, splinters, glenda bashes and archers.  I know it's not typical of the fights you brag about where you fight people coming back to the game after a decade, so you haven't seen much of it.

LearnMe

Cookie said:

LearnMe said:

You talk all this theory, while admittedly not pvping and potentially not playing at all, but refuse to put any of it into practice.  Like I said, feel free to play any sort of non parry mage against a dexxer with half a brain.  They can just dart in and out mindlessly until rng swings their way.  

Haha. It's really frustrating isn't it

I've agreed with everything you have said, and good effort haha, you kept your patience way better than I can. I've really given up on these debates, it's going nowhere, I cannot argue with a block of wood without wanting to burn it

It's cheap and easy entertainment for me.  I knew the bias was there, but I didn't realize they didn't even understand simple mechanics that have been in the game for over a decade.  Kinda takes the fun out of it 

CovenantX

LearnMe said:

It's cheap and easy entertainment for me.  I knew the bias was there, but I didn't realize they didn't even understand simple mechanics that have been in the game for over a decade.  Kinda takes the fun out of it 

   That's exactly how I feel.

   The nerve thing may be a bug, only because it says "you can move" twice, and you can't move until the 2nd time that message goes off, which is after the next swing anyway,

but it in fact is not always breakable.  and I never said nerve-strike was always unbreakable,.

I said it was "mostly unbreakable".  you'd have to test it instead of flat out denying it, otherwise you can keep lying to yourself... I guess if it makes you feel good do it, right?

The only reason I even brought that up was because of your ridiculous 2s Stun+30 damage "Viking sword" comment... in opposition to allowing a 'stun' for all melee weapon skills.

when we essentially have that already, but with a much faster weapon that doesn't even need damage increase OR high tactics to reach 30 damage.   but hey, them bokuto users have evade & bushido mastery confidence on top of it.   that's not broken at all though, huh?

Also, when I suggest a 'stun' of 2s for all weapons - requiring the mastery of the weapon type used to be active', That is in addition to a nerf to parry..   

templates with evade could get that stun, sure, but they already have Nervestrike....

what the hell would they even bother adding more tactics & DI so the viking sword (or any 'para-blow' weapon') to hit as hard as something they've already got,  sticking with nerve strike would still allow them to keep their bushido mastery confidence.  

very few would make that switch unless parry is nerfed too hard. and I'm not aiming for parry to be useless.    Though I have said useless parry is the better option when the only other option is leaving it the way it is, and I'll stick with it. cause parry is f---ing broken AF..

Rorschach

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