Pre-AoS Stun

LearnMe

Kinda odd, Higgs is here constantly crying about mages being OP, but here he is in discord saying how easy playing a 1 tile macer is.  Which is it Higgs? Are 1 tilers "easy button trash pvp" like you stated in this snip or are mages easy mode?

As far as the stun punch goes, make it a wrestle mastery.  You're incredibly vulnerable having to run into a group empty handed (you can't parry or evade) so it's obvious to see and easy to target whoever is doing it.  The current group meta is someone leading with a sleep and trying to splinter and disarm the target.  A vast majority of the players just run away the full time they're on evade or apple timer. Auto boxes doing a whopping 4 damage can be spammed so current stuns are nearly worthless.  All that three days of being able to stun someone did was make it glaringly obvious which guilds are slow on crossheals and struggle to play while not being able to just pop evade, apple, mana shield their way out of a fight for 30 seconds.

People can run around hitting 80 damage glenda/bashes with one swing still but we're in here crying about someone getting stunned for 1 damage.

sibble

LearnMe said:

Kinda odd, Higgs is here constantly crying about mages being OP,

not mages, just parry mages

I see no problem adding stun to the game as long as they reduce block/evade chance for caster templates

just asking for a little balance here its really not asking for a lot imo just a 15-20% nerf on chance to block/evade for casting templates

CovenantX

 @LearnMe ;  that fight @Higgs was talking about involved a bunch of returning players, half of them didn't even know how Evasion is even used.     This would be like saying  "OH look a dexer actually got a kill on me, *screenshot 120.0 parry, wrestling & 80 dex*, but not mentioning you were afk while it went down.

sibble said:

LearnMe said:

Kinda odd, Higgs is here constantly crying about mages being OP, 

not mages, just parry mages

I see no problem adding stun to the game as long as they reduce block/evade chance for caster templates

just asking for a little balance here its really not asking for a lot imo just a 15-20% nerf on chance to block/evade for casting templates

  I'd be fine with this as well as long as it's not just wrestling, include Swords, Macing & Fencing and the stun has no longer than 2s duration.   I'd be fine with them being tied to the masteries.  it'll be a trade off, with  uninterruptible confidence that ~80-90% of the meta has right now.  

LearnMe

CovenantX said:

 @ LearnMe   that fight @ Higgs was talking about involved a bunch of returning players, half of them didn't even know how Evasion is even used.     This would be like saying  "OH look a dexer actually got a kill on me, *screenshot 120.0 parry, wrestling & 80 dex*, but not mentioning you were afk while it went down.

sibble said:

LearnMe said:

Kinda odd, Higgs is here constantly crying about mages being OP, 

not mages, just parry mages

I see no problem adding stun to the game as long as they reduce block/evade chance for caster templates

just asking for a little balance here its really not asking for a lot imo just a 15-20% nerf on chance to block/evade for casting templates

  I'd be fine with this as well as long as it's not just wrestling, include Swords, Macing & Fencing and the stun has no longer than 2s duration.   I'd be fine with them being tied to the masteries.  it'll be a trade off, with  uninterruptible confidence that ~80-90% of the meta has right now.  

But your argument is that evasion isn't the issue, correct? What does their understanding of evasion have to do with anything?  I suppose the new argument that can be made is that this is the level of player that is giving input on how pvp should or shouldn't be.  Either 1 tilers aren't as subpar and underclassed compared to mages as your group typically suggests, or he's losing his mind bragging about fighting people that "didn't even know how evasion is even used."  This is exactly why when people ask if some of these posters even pvp or talk about Atlantic pvp being the showcase.  

Now explain why wrestling, which inherently has stun as one of its TWO abilities, shouldn't be the only skill with the stun? Swords, macing and fencing have how many specials?  The masteries aren't amazing, but can be useful.  Swords can already do almost 50 damage stuns?

CovenantX

LearnMe said:

CovenantX said:

 @ LearnMe   that fight @ Higgs was talking about involved a bunch of returning players, half of them didn't even know how Evasion is even used.     This would be like saying  "OH look a dexer actually got a kill on me, *screenshot 120.0 parry, wrestling & 80 dex*, but not mentioning you were afk while it went down.

sibble said:

LearnMe said:

Kinda odd, Higgs is here constantly crying about mages being OP, 

not mages, just parry mages

I see no problem adding stun to the game as long as they reduce block/evade chance for caster templates

just asking for a little balance here its really not asking for a lot imo just a 15-20% nerf on chance to block/evade for casting templates

  I'd be fine with this as well as long as it's not just wrestling, include Swords, Macing & Fencing and the stun has no longer than 2s duration.   I'd be fine with them being tied to the masteries.  it'll be a trade off, with  uninterruptible confidence that ~80-90% of the meta has right now.  

But your argument is that evasion isn't the issue, correct? What does their understanding of evasion have to do with anything?  I suppose the new argument that can be made is that this is the level of player that is giving input on how pvp should or shouldn't be.  Either 1 tilers aren't as subpar and underclassed compared to mages as your group typically suggests, or he's losing his mind bragging about fighting people that "didn't even know how evasion is even used."  This is exactly why when people ask if some of these posters even pvp or talk about Atlantic pvp being the showcase.  

Now explain why wrestling, which inherently has stun as one of its TWO abilities, shouldn't be the only skill with the stun? Swords, macing and fencing have how many specials?  The masteries aren't amazing, but can be useful.  Swords can already do almost 50 damage stuns?

 

   Evasion isn't the sole issue, but it's partially correct, the thing is, it's an issue because the strongest offense templates (mages) have access to the strongest defense (parry/evade).   your evade chance would be reduced if your parry chance is reduced.   

Personally, I'd not let evasion be used at all if magery OR Chivalry >50.0,

Nerve strike is enough offense to justify the skill in bushido just by itself, then you get uninterruptible confidence if you use the mastery... which 80-90% of evade-mages do.    

Parry still allows you to block 30-40% (depending on 1h or 2h weapon use) of incoming weapon-based attacks... but you and I both know dexers are not the primary reason people have parry, even less a reason for it since archery had their nerfs to AI & moving shot a few years ago.

- in terms of the fight you were referencing.

I was using the 'returning players' understanding of evasion as a means to convey they're not up-to-date with current pvp. They asked @higgs what his template was as the fight came to an end.

 Wrestling has a few advantages on its own to justify allowing all (non-ranged) weapon skills to gain a 2s stun, as opposed to only wrestling.

Wrestling Advantages

1) the only 'weapon skill' to benefit from Parry without giving up potions.

2) No tactics required for either of their specials.

3) can disarm others while being immune to disarm.

Wrestling Disadvantages

1) does little to no damage.

 

I would advocate for a "stun" replacement to all "Paralyzing Blow" specials but only If the Mastery of the special being used is active.

or example   

Paralyzing Blow with wrestling would become a 'stun' Only if Wrestling mastery is used.

a Bardiche would do 'stun' instead of paralyze IF Swords mastery is used.

It would be a trade-off for most templates to make now, because the 'meta' is almost all uninterruptible confidence (bushido mastery).    would it be worth it for a 2s stun, instead of the current meta?  for some...  probably not for all, which is ideally where you'd want it to be.

  if it were a 4s stun for wrestling only as the OP suggests, that would become the meta and non-wrestlers, wouldn't be part of it at all.

 

The_Higgs_1

Yea, I was fighting like 8-10 people solo on my evade macer and they were not pvpers, just returning players doing a despise.  I didnt loot them and let them finish spawn.    

Point I was making was that evasion is that ridiculous, imagine if I was a mage evader, wouldve been even easier.  Mages have been and will always be best template in UO,  problem is everything is unbalanced to it.  Re- balancing of pvp needs to be done to fix it.  Either bring mages down some or bring 1-tilers up some.  Without having to make many nerfs to pvp, easiest way is to take evasion away from mages and reduce parry chance a little bit.  Otherwise youd have to up too many other things on the other side.

LearnMe

CovenantX said:

 

   Evasion isn't the sole issue, but it's partially correct, the thing is, it's an issue because the strongest offense templates (mages) have access to the strongest defense (parry/evade).   your evade chance would be reduced if your parry chance is reduced.   

Personally, I'd not let evasion be used at all if magery OR Chivalry >50.0,

Nerve strike is enough offense to justify the skill in bushido just by itself, then you get uninterruptible confidence if you use the mastery... which 80-90% of evade-mages do.    

Parry still allows you to block 30-40% (depending on 1h or 2h weapon use) of incoming weapon-based attacks... but you and I both know dexers are not the primary reason people have parry, even less a reason for it since archery had their nerfs to AI & moving shot a few years ago.

- in terms of the fight you were referencing.

I was using the 'returning players' understanding of evasion as a means to convey they're not up-to-date with current pvp. They asked @ higgs what his template was as the fight came to an end.

 Wrestling has a few advantages on its own to justify allowing all (non-ranged) weapon skills to gain a 2s stun, as opposed to only wrestling.

Wrestling Advantages

1) the only 'weapon skill' to benefit from Parry without giving up potions.

2) No tactics required for either of their specials.

3) can disarm others while being immune to disarm.

Wrestling Disadvantages

1) does little to no damage.

 

I would advocate for a "stun" replacement to all "Paralyzing Blow" specials but only If the Mastery of the special being used is active.

or example   

Paralyzing Blow with wrestling would become a 'stun' Only if Wrestling mastery is used.

a Bardiche would do 'stun' instead of paralyze IF Swords mastery is used.

It would be a trade-off for most templates to make now, because the 'meta' is almost all uninterruptible confidence (bushido mastery).    would it be worth it for a 2s stun, instead of the current meta?  for some...  probably not for all, which is ideally where you'd want it to be.

  if it were a 4s stun for wrestling only as the OP suggests, that would become the meta and non-wrestlers, wouldn't be part of it at all.

 

Dexxers aren't the primary reason for having parry?  It's the exact reason I have parry.  I'd be an idiot to not run parry and subject myself infinite mana dexxers.  If some monkey is plague glenda bashing, it's going to do over 160 damage with a para in two swings.  That's not including plague or the ticks OR the bombard on trigger.  If someone curse yumi's me, I'm suddenly subject to 70 damage swings at an easily attainable swing cap.  If someone max's out their damage with a gnarled staff, I'm subject to 80 damage in a single swing, plus a possibility of splinter.  My archer can currently do upward of 35 damage a moving shot and fire off a dozen before I run out of mana.  That's without being set up to use an assassin honed composite.  

What are my options of countering without parry?  I can stun them, they can instantly box out of it as many times as I hit it all for the massive consequence of the 4 damage box.  Now I can't stun them for 10 seconds.  Dexxers in a group with half a brain can already instantly kill someone.  A dexxer that does more than run around swinging one weapon spamming one special against a mage without parry it's not even fair.  

Anyway, the stun should be a wrestling ability.  It requires you to have more than just wrestling, requires you to have your hands free.  There already you've invested more skill points, you can't get uninterruptable confidence even if you get bushido because it would be a wrestle mastery, and you're vulnerable because your hands are free.  There is zero reason for someone to be able to have a one or two handed weapon that lets them chug or has reactive paralyze on it for even more added defense.  It would be a strong move done right and should have a trade off.  The other weapon classes have plenty of variability, they don't need the stun as well.  Otherwise now it becomes splinter, disarm, stun, moving shots.  

It just boggles my mind you two complain about parry and evasion relentlessly, then advocate people with parry and evasion to be able to use an unbreakable stun so that bare fists don't get a buff.  It's so backward to me.  If it's a wrestle mastery, that's triggered by people with empty hands, what are they not doing...?  Parrying or evading.

The_Higgs_1

1: with wrestling you still have defense and its literally only usable on a mage.
2:  youll only be without shield for 1-2 secs tops just to get the unbreakable stun to go off, much like a bola where you can rearm immediately.  It will be scripted just like wall of stone or tele dismounts.  So yeah its nonsense.

CovenantX

So a few things.  @LearnMe ; (damn I hate how there's no "condense" when quoting large posts on this forum.)

1) Glenda-Bash needs to be fixed, it's obviously a bug.

2) you can box out of glenda-bash, it's not a stun, it's a paralyze... also, if the bone-breaker procs you're immune to the Damage the glenda does for 1 minute.

3) the yumi is very highly susceptible to RNG because to deal damage like you say, it requires both hits to land & multiple hit-spell procs.   

4)  "Splinter + Disarm + Stun + Moving shots"  group setting, how would it be any different with Lynks proposal ?  except stun lasting for 4s.   

-a mage could easily get splintering by using a mage-weapon.   no skill required, just a small +15-20 magery as part of the suit..  so I guess it could be done by a solo player, but it's unecessary if you go with 4s stun because stun/wall/wall would be 10x more effective.

LearnMe

The_Higgs_1 said:

1: with wrestling you still have defense and its literally only usable on a mage.
2:  youll only be without shield for 1-2 secs tops just to get the unbreakable stun to go off, much like a bola where you can rearm immediately.  It will be scripted just like wall of stone or tele dismounts.  So yeah its nonsense.

Yes and a wrestler with no shield to parry with is easy pickins running into any group.  You aren't going to disarm your shield, instantly stun someone, rearm shield.  For one, that would put you on item timer twice or you would be prevented from doing it as you're likely going to have to apple/pot/box.  Just like any other hit, it could take more than one swing.

LearnMe

CovenantX said:

So a few things.  @ LearnMe  (damn I hate how there's no "condense" when quoting large posts on this forum.)

1) Glenda-Bash needs to be fixed, it's obviously a bug.

2) you can box out of glenda-bash, it's not a stun, it's a paralyze... also, if the bone-breaker procs you're immune to the Damage the glenda does for 1 minute.

3) the yumi is very highly susceptible to RNG because to deal damage like you say, it requires both hits to land & multiple hit-spell procs.   

4)  "Splinter + Disarm + Stun + Moving shots"  group setting, how would it be any different with Lynks proposal ?  except stun lasting for 4s.   

-a mage could easily get splintering by using a mage-weapon.   no skill required, just a small +15-20 magery as part of the suit..  so I guess it could be done by a solo player, but it's unecessary if you go with 4s stun because stun/wall/wall would be 10x more effective.

You don't know how splinter doesn't proc with fists..?  That's how suggesting it should work with weapons is dumb.

Fully aware of how all of these things work.  Point is, any mage fighting any of these without parry is going to get hit more often than not.  HLD stacking, splinter chances on both double strikes with as many dexxers run pickaxes, you don't exactly have to land many swings doing 70-85 damage a pop.  If you want to test the theory, you guys are welcome to take a night off bragging about killing people who don't know what evasion is and try to kill any dexxer with half a brain while you don't have parry.  Good luck to ya

CovenantX

LearnMe said:

The_Higgs_1 said:

1: with wrestling you still have defense and its literally only usable on a mage.
2:  youll only be without shield for 1-2 secs tops just to get the unbreakable stun to go off, much like a bola where you can rearm immediately.  It will be scripted just like wall of stone or tele dismounts.  So yeah its nonsense.

Yes and a wrestler with no shield to parry with is easy pickins running into any group.  You aren't going to disarm your shield, instantly stun someone, rearm shield.  For one, that would put you on item timer twice or you would be prevented from doing it as you're likely going to have to apple/pot/box.  Just like any other hit, it could take more than one swing.

   Wrestling has the ability to disarm.... use it, you'll very rarely die to any dexer.   in groups well that's a different story.     you never noticed how Parry lets you survive GROUPS of dexers, and you don't think it's broken one vs one? 

I'm not sure how long you can continue ignoring the elephant in the room.

a mage without parry is no easier than an archer as far as their defense goes... except the mage is guaranteed to land their damage while the archer always has 50% chance to hit increasing to about 56% while under the effects of HLD against someone without parry.  refine for DCI if dexers are so OP..  oooh but mages, right.....

Oh wait, you refine for Fire resist already by doing so you reduce your DCI so dexers can hit you more and mages do less damage.    every archer refines their fire resist up and they can't even have Parry... Gee I wonder what that's all about?   I mean, it's not rocket science.

LearnMe said:

You don't know how splinter doesn't proc with fists..?  That's how suggesting it should work with weapons is dumb.

Fully aware of how all of these things work.  Point is, any mage fighting any of these without parry is going to get hit more often than not.  HLD stacking, splinter chances on both double strikes with as many dexxers run pickaxes, you don't exactly have to land many swings doing 70-85 damage a pop.  If you want to test the theory, you guys are welcome to take a night off bragging about killing people who don't know what evasion is and try to kill any dexxer with half a brain while you don't have parry.  Good luck to ya

  Mages with wrestling or no weapon skill can pickup splintering anytime they want by using a mage weapon, like I said, all it takes is +15-20 magery on your suit and you've got it made. 

-Did you see when I mentioned Splintering weapon shouldn't proc on spell-channeling weapons and/or if the user has >50.0 Magery in past discussions? 

   if your stun is on cooldown or your victim is on 'stun' immunity timer, there's no reason NOT to splinter... assuming your victim survive the stun to begin with.  that should be impossible when you're in a group....

  I wasn't bragging about killing pvmers, I wasn't even at that fight, I broke my suit up on GL months ago I'll replace it eventually.. there hasn't been pvp there for like 5 years.  I was in chat while it went down, that's how I know what happened.   Hey, we're not the ones using the argument (in discussion with the potential to influence how the game is played) that Mages need Parry because some "evade dexer template from 12 years ago" can rip through a bunch of PvMers... That's you pal,

any mage template from 12 years ago would have done the same... but likely faster as was mentioned....

LearnMe

You're right, it isn't rocket science.  In an era of double stacking HLD, proc'ing it with double strikes or focus attack I'm almost always going to be under the effect of HLD.  So suddenly, that 5% dci I lost by refining one resist isn't even a 5% reduction.  Consider that in combination with every dexxer being able to have 100% elemental damage weapons....oh gosh, if I actually competitively pvp I suddenly realize that it's not all to avoid a flamestrike.

Damn, you can disarm a dexxer with wrestle and they can't kill you?  Guess what else you aren't going to do with a wrestle mage?  Kill any dexxer.  Derp.  Guess it's not that OP if it's based on killing potential.

I don't know why you always return to this "mages always get their damage off."  You mean most of their 8-13 damage spells don't get interrupted, but any damage of value takes multiple seconds to cast that a dexxer can just run away from? Even in this fight that apparently gets bragged about in your comms about fighting noobs, if he's really 1v10'ing, how many spells is a mage getting off to kill someone? lol I mean c'mon. My point wasn't even that it was a demonstration of his template.  I thought it was fairly obvious it was a comment on the level of player that's giving input on anything pvp related.  The hypocrisy of one minute saying dexxers are worthless and parry needs nerfed, then another minute bragging about how he's killing noobs on....wait for it...a 1 tile dexxer.  

You talk all this theory, while admittedly not pvping and potentially not playing at all, but refuse to put any of it into practice.  Like I said, feel free to play any sort of non parry mage against a dexxer with half a brain.  They can just dart in and out mindlessly until rng swings their way.  

LearnMe

Anyway, the point is there should be an unbreakable stun, around the 2s mark for wrestling.  It's dumb to suggest that I should be able to hit a 30+ damage unbreakable stun with a viking sword.  You want an option to thin out the use of bokutos and the like, you don't give the same weapon class an unbreakable stun that let's them to continue to have full defensive capabilities with a damaging stun.  Pretty simple.

CovenantX

LearnMe said:

Anyway, the point is there should be an unbreakable stun, around the 2s mark for wrestling.  It's dumb to suggest that I should be able to hit a 30+ damage unbreakable stun with a viking sword.  You want an option to thin out the use of bokutos and the like, you don't give the same weapon class an unbreakable stun that let's them to continue to have full defensive capabilities with a damaging stun.  Pretty simple.

   Swords already has a stun that's mostly unbreakable & consistently hits for ~30 damage.  it's called nerve strike, perhaps you've heard of it?   it's only being used by 95% of the templates in pvp today.... and um, that's on a weapon with the fastest base weapon speed of 2s. 

So... what would be "OP" about wrestling & all melee weapon skills receiving a 2s stun without the extra direct damage that is already possible with nerve?      

or is it you think wrestling 2s stun would be useless if weapons could get the same thing, because weapons' deal damage?    

The mastery would be required to gain the benefit of 'stun' with weapons & wrestling, if you don't run the weapon skill or wrestling mastery, you have para-blow instead.   

The whole reason for this suggestion is to make trap boxes (mostly scripts) less effective, is it not?    or is it really as obvious as it looks.. your group of 5+ wants a 4s stun because it'll make it easier to sync-dump people?

CovenantX

LearnMe said:

Damn, you can disarm a dexxer with wrestle and they can't kill you?  Guess what else you aren't going to do with a wrestle mage?  Kill any dexxer.  Derp.  Guess it's not that OP if it's based on killing potential.

1 - Hrmm, why can't you kill a dexer with a mage?  

2 - What's the difference between when you do it and when your opponent does it?

Cazador

Lynk said:

Please consider adding the Pre-AOS unbreakable stun to wrestling mastery, and tie the duration to real skill in wrestle/anat and mastery level, scaling from 1 second to four seconds.  Leave the requirement of empty hands in place.

It will require a huge skill point/equipment sacrifice to use it, and leave you quite vulnerable in the process.  

As it is, the wrestling mastery is useless.  I'm sure if you did a quick peek at number of players who actually use it, you'll see that no one does.

This makes sense. The problem that’s always plagued the PvP community is that if things seemed overpowered or they specifically died to it and wanted to rage post. Rather than balancing it or compromising they just wanted it nerfed. I feel like the devs buy into laziness and just nerf things rather than think constructively. Keeping the pre-aos stun could be beneficial for team builds to add as part of the sync. 4 seconds is too long for a perma stun. I’d say 4 seconds is ok with 2s of perma stun(can’t consume items) and 2s of walk animations(can consume items). 

Cookie

LearnMe said:

You talk all this theory, while admittedly not pvping and potentially not playing at all, but refuse to put any of it into practice.  Like I said, feel free to play any sort of non parry mage against a dexxer with half a brain.  They can just dart in and out mindlessly until rng swings their way.  

Haha. It's really frustrating isn't it

I've agreed with everything you have said, and good effort haha, you kept your patience way better than I can. I've really given up on these debates, it's going nowhere, I cannot argue with a block of wood without wanting to burn it

CovenantX

Cookie said:

Haha. It's really frustrating isn't it

I cannot argue with a block of wood without wanting to burn it

   Trust me, you have no idea.

The_Higgs_1

And how many dexxers are you fighting everyday with your 10+ team @LearnMe???  Im guessing less then 5% of the fights.  Yet somehow you think your argument is right about elemental weapons and endless mana?!?!  If you cant manage to snyc dump someone in this current meta with the numbers you run, maybe try checkers.  Our group does it without evade with 3-4 people.   

Super offense plus uber defense on mages ++ The recently used 3rd party programs(3-4 years) is why you are ignorant to actual pvp issues.  If you think what you been doing mindlessly on Atl for the past 4 years is pvp your completely lost on any pvp conversation.

McDougle

the action here better than smack
talk chat in game

Lynk

Cov you lost credibility when you said nerve is an unbreakable stun.  It is breakable.  Just stop you look silly.

CovenantX

Lynk said:

Cov you lost credibility when you said nerve is an unbreakable stun.  It is breakable.  Just stop you look silly.

   Test it, you'll see it's Mostly unbreakable.   you never noticed why most people don't box out of it?

  please do show the results.   then we'll see who lacks credibility.

Mariah

This thread is getting too personal. Please return to impersonal, technical discussion.

Lynk

CovenantX said:

Lynk said:

Cov you lost credibility when you said nerve is an unbreakable stun.  It is breakable.  Just stop you look silly.

   Test it, you'll see it's Mostly unbreakable.   you never noticed why most people don't box out of it?

  please do show the results.   then we'll see who lacks credibility.

I PvP every single day against people who nerve strike.  You can easily box out of nerve strike.  The fact that you don't know this is really concerning considering how much you comment in PvP threads.

CovenantX

Lynk said:

I PvP every single day against people who nerve strike.  You can easily box out of nerve strike.  The fact that you don't know this is really concerning considering how much you comment in PvP threads.

Well, you clearly don't know much about the most commonly used special in pvp. 

I thought this was common knowledge.   something every pvper knew, why the hell do you think everyone uses it?   

your guildy @LearnMe seems to think a 'viking sword' would be OP if it could do a 30 dmg stun for 2s instead of it's current 'paralyze' for 2s...   at first I thought he just made a bad comparison, but it's more clear he didn't know nerve was mostly unbreakable either.

it's ok... people that deal with these things on a daily basis for 3+ years sometimes don't know..

Nerve is not Always 'unbreakable', but the vast majority of the time it is completely unbreakable, forcing you to stay stunned for 2s,  it's almost never worth taking the extra damage from boxing it.. as it breaks about ~20% of the time.

Cookie

CovenantX said:

Lynk said:

I PvP every single day against people who nerve strike.  You can easily box out of nerve strike.  The fact that you don't know this is really concerning considering how much you comment in PvP threads.

Well, you clearly don't know much about the most commonly used special in pvp. 

I thought this was common knowledge.   something every pvper knew, why the hell do you think everyone uses it?   

your guildy @ LearnMe seems to think a 'viking sword' would be OP if it could do a 30 dmg stun for 2s instead of it's current 'paralyze' for 2s...   at first I thought he just made a bad comparison, but it's more clear he didn't know nerve was mostly unbreakable either.

it's ok... people that deal with these things on a daily basis for 3+ years sometimes don't know..

Nerve is not Always 'unbreakable', but the vast majority of the time it is completely unbreakable, forcing you to stay stunned for 2s,  it's almost never worth taking the extra damage from boxing it.. as it breaks about ~20% of the time.

I'm not sure that argument really works.

Mostly unbreakable? It either is or it isn't. In my experience, I trap box out of it every time.

When you say mostly, what percentage are you quoting {Edit - I note you are saying 80% unbreakable now}? The Yukio Earrings should drop 1 in 8, but some people don't have a drop in 60 attempts.

This is UO, this is a game where the RNG never ever works like it should. You quoting theory isn't going to cut it, against our experiences of just trap boxing out of it always. How can you compare mostly unbreakable, with fully unbreakable?

Is this like your Dexxers "always" miss, when they actually hit almost every single time?

Is it that you just have a massive perception problem? Or are just massively biased?

CovenantX

Cookie said:

I'm not sure that argument really works.

Mostly unbreakable? It either is or it isn't. In my experience, I trap box out of it every time.

When you say mostly, what percentage are you quoting {Edit - I note you are saying 80% unbreakable now}? The Yukio Earrings should drop 1 in 8, but some people don't have a drop in 60 attempts.

 

  I suggest you pay more attention when you try to box out of nerve.

  I'm estimating it to be at 80%,  because it rarely lets you out of the stun.   I could have bad RNG - which is typical... but nerve is in fact not 100% breakable by any stretch, like you guys seem to be claiming.

I've had it break 2x in a row, and I've had it not break stun over 12x in a row.  

I never said it was always unbreakable... but it's close enough to where it doesn't matter because Nerve does ~30 damage in addition to Stun.. and some of you think that would be OP coming from other 'slower' weapons, for some reason.

 

 

Cookie

Honestly, I don't even care about any of this argument.

Nerve strike doesn't even bother me.

Dexxers bother me wiping everything out without parry, Dismount bothers me, I'd happily take another form of meta to stop players than dismount if it left them mounted, for example wrestle stun.

hunter11

George said:

Covenant doesn't seem to understand that the problem with the game right now is a lack of diversity, which is disturbing for someone who has "eliminate chance in pvp" as their signature. What is being played right now? Splinter/Evade/Mage, Splinter/Evade/Dexer, Balakai/Evade/Mage, Parry/Mage, Splinter/Parry/Chiv/Glenda.

This stun really is no worse than splinter, a free bleed + force walk (tHaT cOsTs DuRaBiLiTy) and it busts the runaway forever evasion meta while also keeping the stunner squishy and vulnerable with only wrestling + dci to rely on and no evasion for dumps. And to anyone who thinks otherwise, I invite them to step away from their zerg, make a wrestle dci mage without parry, and give it a go for a day.

Reduce the stun to two seconds, re-introduce it through the ingame macro, and make the cost a flat 20-25% of the user's max stamina.

We have more ways to survive with gross suits, templates, and consumables than UOR players. Yet they manage just fine.

Yes I love how they nerf great items with many mods to really limit what people play... lets really kill pvp... biggest mistake ever lets cap item mod's...