New Tmap proposals

Swroberts said:

People seem to be thinking that Remove Trap took the place of mining, which isn't true. Cartography took the place of mining, because you would decode all the maps and stone cart and put on mining.

So Remove Trap is no extra and makes for a bulky Character.

So this new system, as it is right now on Test, is a lot more accessible and worthwhile at lower levels than the system we were used to. As such, templates can be changed around pretty dramatically.

The "lower level" chests are now worth something. In fact, if you were t-hunting primarily for gold, gems, reagents, "goodies" -orbs, scrolls, etc.-, those "lower level" chests are where everything is. There are not really "lower" and "higher" chests, as we are used to thinking of them, except in terms of the guardians.

I agree that Cartography took the place Mining.

Remove Trap is extra, however, you don't need it for all chests. In fact, you really don't need lockpicking or remove trap for the first three. And that is where all the loot we're used to is.

So, in essence, to get all of the loot we are used to, you have a much more open template.

If you want/are capable of, generating a single chest with more equipable items (same intensity as the "lower" chests, but none of the other loot -except for the random decorative), then yes you need Locking/Remove Trap. Then the template does get tight. But only if your focus is more equipable items in a single chest, or higher level guardians, or pets. There is a trade off.

So really, you can build the template around what kind of a t-hunter you are. If you like gold, gems, and goodies, then congrats, you no longer need lockpicking/remove trap at all. You can just use magery, and fairly low levels of it. If you want to fight higher guardians, or look for pets, and still get some equipable items -and that's it- from the chest, then you'll have to make some trade-offs to get RT into the template.

It is different from what we are used to, but it allows many more templates to participate in the t-hunting system.

Tanager · May 2019

People seem stuck on the idea that the best method is to do the ''highest'' level of map for the best loot.

This is incorrect.

Arroth_Thaiel · May 2019

Tanager said:

People seem stuck on the idea that the best method is to do the ''highest'' level of map for the best loot.

This is incorrect.

Yeah, I think it's understandable though. We've been conditioned to think that way in almost all games (including UO) forever. Remember a whole week ago when we were first testing...it was like...WHAAAAA the ?????

Ah, the good old days.

JollyJade · May 2019

Arroth_Thaiel said:
It is different from what we are used to, but it allows many more templates to participate in the t-hunting system.

This is just objectively wrong. Do those people you talk to really run 100 mining for T-Hunting? Because many I know run 0 Mining and it works great.

Also from the other thread I see that after the "upgrade" level 7 maps will not even be guaranteed to drop gems and gold? Very laughable but whatever..

Plus @Kyronix does a good job avoiding the questions where all the maps should come from when Miasma maps are specifically designed for groups in the new system.

But after all everyone should know now they couldn't care less what happens after it hits prodo. They will just jump to the next UO original they can destroy *cough*

Petra_Fyde · May 2019

JollyJade said:
Plus @ Kyronix does a good job avoiding the questions where all the maps should come from when Miasma maps are specifically designed for groups in the new system.

Kyronix said that if you could solo the before, you still can. The guardians are unchanged. I, and several others doing actual testing, are soloing Hoard maps, which are what Miasma chests contain, with a wide range of templates.

Alternative sources of maps are: Hag's quest, both facets; Doom Guardians room; all the regular creatures that drop maps; Ilshenar paragon chests (before Miasma was in game I got most of my level 6s from paragon blood eles in Sorcerers dungeon).

You are high on negativity and dev-hate, but woefully low on actual facts.
Personally, I will be digging the maps my fisher gets from sea serpents instead of just handing them in for points unread.

Kyronix · May 2019

JollyJade said:

Arroth_Thaiel said:
It is different from what we are used to, but it allows many more templates to participate in the t-hunting system.

This is just objectively wrong. Do those people you talk to really run 100 mining for T-Hunting? Because many I know run 0 Mining and it works great.

Also from the other thread I see that after the "upgrade" level 7 maps will not even be guaranteed to drop gems and gold? Very laughable but whatever..

Plus @ Kyronix does a good job avoiding the questions where all the maps should come from when Miasma maps are specifically designed for groups in the new system.

But after all everyone should know now they couldn't care less what happens after it hits prodo. They will just jump to the next UO original they can destroy *cough*

What's your question? I'm happy to answer your questions, however you make some assertions in your comments that are not based on the facts as they are in the current implementation, and you already seem to have it in your head that we don't respond to feedback - despite the hours and hours that have been spent interacting on our forums and on TC1 responding to those interested in bettering the feature.

Tanager · May 2019

There seems to be a number of folks who are interested in the coming changes, but who have not had the time to invest in the testing process. We all have busy lives, I am not judging anyone. However, this revamp changes a lot of concepts, down to the very foundation, and that took a fair amount of experiencing the actual content for me to get used to it. This is my take on it:

There are 3 levels of treasure chest loot. Three. There is no longer a linear progression, where higher is better. Each level has its own loot. This makes the loot very targetable.

Stash (1): Normal crafting materials, SoT, Reagents, level 2 maps, refinements

Supply (2): Special & normal crafting materials, minor artifacts, utility items, level 3 maps, recipes, crafting materials, SoA

Cache (3): Randomly Generated Equipment, Deco, level 4 treasure maps, recipes

In addition to these SOLO levels, there are 2 GROUP levels. (And frankly I think they should just get rid of the level 5.) Their loot table is EXACTLY the same as a level 3 map, with the exception of power scrolls in Fel level 4/5 chests and level 5 maps. The group content has more spawn that is more difficult (which contains the tamables), and requires more skill points to open the chests. These chests have more equipment in terms of quantity, but they are the same exact quality of equipment as a cache chest.

This revamp allows for the idea of group play in treasure hunting, without forcing soloers into group play. No one is missing out on any items (except power scrolls and tamables) by simply never doing the group maps.

JollyJade · May 2019

Petra_Fyde said:

JollyJade said:
Plus @ Kyronix does a good job avoiding the questions where all the maps should come from when Miasma maps are specifically designed for groups in the new system.

Kyronix said that if you could solo the before, you still can. The guardians are unchanged. I, and several others doing actual testing, are soloing Hoard maps, which are what Miasma chests contain, with a wide range of templates.

Alternative sources of maps are: Hag's quest, both facets; Doom Guardians room; all the regular creatures that drop maps; Ilshenar paragon chests (before Miasma was in game I got most of my level 6s from paragon blood eles in Sorcerers dungeon).

You are high on negativity and dev-hate, but woefully low on actual facts.
Personally, I will be digging the maps my fisher gets from sea serpents instead of just handing them in for points unread.

There is no shortage of level 6 and 7 maps. But this will be whats supposed for group activity and Kyronix said the have no better loot than what is now level 5. They will also have the annoying puzzles, rendering them actually worse in terms of effort/reward to the lower maps.

Then level 1-5 are designed for solo play and don't have the annoying puzzle, so thats where the action will be. But those are hard to farm and I wonder where all the T-Hunters might get them. Again: today supply is easy, you just go to Miasma.

Doom Guardian room only drops level 1 to 3 maps, no 5s. So much for your "facts".

JollyJade · May 2019

Kyronix said:

What's your question?

Is there anything planned to add where the 60% solo T-Hunters can reliably get now level 5 maps comparable to how most hunters currently farm Miasma for level 6 maps?

Petra_Fyde · May 2019

What did you do before Miasma made it so 'easy'?

So don't 'farm' maps, just collect them as you get them hunting. Most of my Ter Mur maps have come from Stygian Abyss when I was working mini champs for essence.

Hag's quest gives all the levels except Trove.
My fisherman gets maps when I'm fishing for mibs. I used to just ditch them, but now they'll have things in that I want.
Two of the maps I've dug the last couple of days came off the guardians I was killing on the map, not to mention maps in the chests.
Try hunting paragon chests in Ilsh, all levels?

JollyJade · May 2019

See, that's why actual T-Hunters are so frustrated with this. Questions from actual T-Hunters are answered with "don't do what you like to do anymore" and those that get feedback through seem stuck in a time before Miasma existed smh.

Petra_Fyde · May 2019

So - I can happily solo all map levels currently, have a template that still works with the changes, know where and how to get maps to dig, but I'm not an 'actual t-hunter'?

I can, and have, got Miasma maps - 6 gotten on Test center today just to check they're still there.
I can also farm demons for level 4s or balron/blood eles for level 5s

You're not a 'glass half full' guy are you?

Kyronix · May 2019

JollyJade said:

Kyronix said:

What's your question?

Is there anything planned to add where the 60% solo T-Hunters can reliably get now level 5 maps comparable to how most hunters currently farm Miasma for level 6 maps?

You question is based on an incorrect assumption on loot tables that are no longer applicable.

This is why we changed the names of the maps with the reduction in numbers. There are preconceived notions of what was in what level based on how things have been. In order to fulfill the request of "getting rid of the junk" we had to reduce the levels. This required us to redistribute the loot among those new levels and change the naming convention. I understand change can sometimes be difficult to adapt to, and the new naming scheme will take some time but the request for improvement can not be paired with a demand for things to remain unchanged.

As far as which creatures drop which maps....

If a creature dropped a Lvl 1 it will continue to drop a Lvl 1.

If a creature dorpped a Lvl 2 or a Lvl 3 it will drop a Lvl 2.

If a creature dropped a Lvl 4 or Lvl 5 it will drop a Lvl 3.

If a creature dropped a Lvl 6 it will drop a Lvl 4.

If a creature dropped a Lvl 7 it will drop a Lvl 5.

This is in addition to Treasure maps themselves which will give a map +1 level over their current level and paragon mobs that include Putrefiers, Miasma, Rend, Pyre, Grim, Master Theophilus, and Abscess.

What is your expectation here? How much time have you spent testing the changes on TC1? Have you participated in the constructive feedback thread to give us actionable feedback we can go off, or are you simply interested in casting shade?

JollyJade · May 2019

I was under the impression that Stash, Supply and Cache are supposed to be for solo players like me, which considering the other poll made like 60% of the players. That is currently level 1 to 5 maps.

Under the old system many people just focused on 6 and 7s, where 6s had a steady supply by targeting especially Miasma.

5s don't have that reliable supply that you can specifically target.

Again: Is there anything planned to increase the supply of what is going to be the most challenging solo map level (Cache)?

Bilbo · May 2019

@Kyronix I understand the different lvls of the maps and the changes to the SOSs/MIBs and with feedback from players/mods/devs I think I can get along with them now with no problem. Currently I have 2 full Davies Lockers mainly with SOS/MIB but I do have %25 high lvl maps on Prodo shards, how are these all going to be converted when this goes WW. Will we have to turn them into someone for new ones or will you just convert them for us? Will I need to empty the lockers for them to be converted or can they stay where they are at. I am an avid fisherman and a part time T-Hunter low lvl.

Just to make sure of the puzzels if they are part of the new TChests that they will be new LVL 4/5 only. Please keep in mind also that a lot of us that play UO are old enough to be your daddy or mommy so think of your parents when making changes and continue with the life enhancement changes like you did with BODs.

Arroth_Thaiel · May 2019

JollyJade said:

Arroth_Thaiel said:
It is different from what we are used to, but it allows many more templates to participate in the t-hunting system.

This is just objectively wrong. Do those people you talk to really run 100 mining for T-Hunting? Because many I know run 0 Mining and it works great.

I actually have always used 100 mining on my T-hunter. I've heard many say they run 0 mining, I've heard others say they stick with 100 mining, and one in particular who uses 51 mining.

It wasn't until yesterday on test that I have ever used a Davies to get the cords and 0 skill to dig up the chest. I actually had to have someone explain how to do that in chat.

All I can say is, I personally cannot believe people used 0 mining. My hat is off to you. You're all Cray-Cray.

If you read some of the other threads here on the Test Center forum or you log into Test Center, you'll find people already figuring out new ways to build t-hunters, fitting in additional skills where they couldn't before, or changing entire templates to something they enjoy more.

Honestly, I'm thinking seriously about taking my tinker and golem out to do Stash chests. I have a t-hunter at 100 cartog for the gold chest and rarer resources (valorite, frostwood, barbed), but my tinker with 0 cartog would get rusted chests with more common resources (ash, bronze?, spined). The golem could easily handle the Stash guardians.

So yeah, way more options now.

I honestly hope Kyronix will consider making puzzles optional, but putting them on all chests. I would love to be able to stealth up to the chest, open the puzzle, detonate the bomb, and blow low level guardians away in a glorious explosion! I suspect other rogues would too. @Cookie @Tim or @TimSt (Can't remember which Tim has been talking about stealthing in to steal the loot without dealing with the guardians.)

Kyronix · May 2019

@JollyJade We already have implemented those changes. Any map that is a Lvl 4 OR a Lvl 5 will become a Lvl 3 - so you don't just have to target the old Lvl 5 supply to get the new Lvl 3, you can ALSO target the old Lvl 4 supply.

@Bilbo please read the patch notes. Specificall this section, Treasure Map Levels & Availability

Bilbo · May 2019

TYVM Wipes sweet off brow and goes out to get more MIBs and low LVL T-Maps

jelinidas · May 2019

Treasure Guardians & Encounter Difficulty

Treasure Maps that lead to a Stash, Supply, or Cache have been balanced for solo encounters while Hordes and Troves are more geared towards group encounters.
Treasure Map Guardian creatures have been redistributed where,
- Level 1 -> Level 1
- Level 2 & Level 3 -> Level 2
- Level 4 & Level 5 -> Level 3
- Level 6 -> Level 4
- Level 7 -> Level 5

So, I am a player who enjoys the fight and challenge of the guardians, no puzzles and plays solo. I am now supposed to target lvl1-lvl3 maps with guardians that range from mongbats to fire elementals instead of ancient wyrms, greater dragons and frost drakes etc? You see, its not always about just the loot! Its the adventure of finding the chest, digging the chest, killing the guards, and THEN the loot!

I thought we were getting back into treasure hunting! I seem to remember Kyronix saying templets had gotten so far off the rails. Well hells bells...now you don't even need any templet that looks and feels like a treasure hunter! lets see, just get GM magery, boom, ur a treasure hunter!

Do not need lock picking
Do not need untrap or detect hidden
Do not need carto or mining

I just shake my head at all this. The puzzles, that have no reason at all being in treasure hunting, to the reduction of skill in what is actually needed to treasure hunt.

KHAN · May 2019

@Kyronix, what will happen to the skull rugs that give a (current) level 1-4 map per week? My thought is, they will give the "new" level 1-3 maps when this goes "live". In whatever form, with whatever changes are made.

JollyJade · May 2019

Ok, for the sake of it I copied to TC. Did a Cache map in Tram. I might you be a lost cause if that's the future of solo T-Hunting.

It spawned 4 guardians, 2 ogre lords, an blood elemental and a demon. Easy food for the RC. Removed the trap by using remove trap spell just as it was telekinesis, not sure I understand that change, but ok. Unlocked the chest on third try with a skeleton key. Had whopping 2 items: a cursed axe and a vicious bracelet, 50kish gold and some gems. No orb, no deco, no refinements, no pardon, no pink, no blue, no ps, etc. pp.

Gotta try the "group" levels next but this was insulting to anyone soloing 6s and 7s lol.

jelinidas · May 2019

JollyJade said:

Ok, for the sake of it I copied to TC. Did a Cache map in Tram. I might you be a lost cause if that's the future of solo T-Hunting.

It spawned 4 guardians, 2 ogre lords, an blood elemental and a demon. Easy food for the RC. Removed the trap by using remove trap spell just as it was telekinesis, not sure I understand that change, but ok. Unlocked the chest on third try with a skeleton key. Had whopping 2 items: a cursed axe and a vicious bracelet, 50kish gold and some gems. No orb, no deco, no refinements, no pardon, no pink, no blue, no ps, etc. pp.

Gotta try the "group" levels next but this was insulting to anyone soloing 6s and 7s lol.

This! This is what I mean! Not fun! I am with you JollyJade!

Kyronix · May 2019

KHAN said:

@ Kyronix, what will happen to the skull rugs that give a (current) level 1-4 map per week? My thought is, they will give the "new" level 1-3 maps when this goes "live". In whatever form, with whatever changes are made.

The maps that are retrieved from the rug will follow the conversion as described in the notes.

KHAN · May 2019

Kyronix said:

KHAN said:

@ Kyronix, what will happen to the skull rugs that give a (current) level 1-4 map per week? My thought is, they will give the "new" level 1-3 maps when this goes "live". In whatever form, with whatever changes are made.

The maps that are retrieved from the rug will follow the conversion as described in the notes.

Thanks.

Tanager · May 2019

JollyJade said:

No orb, no deco, no refinements, no pardon, no pink, no blue, no ps, etc. pp.

jelinidas said:

This! This is what I mean! Not fun! I am with you JollyJade!

You need to read - really read - the patch notes.

Deco (the odds of getting are RNG and currently rather low) and RNG gear are in level 3 .

None of those other items are in level 3. Or 4. Or 5.

jelinidas · May 2019

Tanager said:

You need to read - really read - the patch notes.

And you my friend need to read the whole posts. I will condense it a bit...

jelinidas said:

So, I am a player who enjoys the fight and challenge of the guardians, no puzzles and plays solo. I am now supposed to target lvl1-lvl3 maps with guardians that range from mongbats to fire elementals instead of ancient wyrms, greater dragons and frost drakes etc? You see, its not always about just the loot! Its the adventure of finding the chest, digging the chest, killing the guards, and THEN the loot!

JollyJade said:

Gotta try the "group" levels next but this was insulting to anyone soloing 6s and 7s lol.

Bilbo · May 2019

jelinidas said:

Tanager said:

You need to read - really read - the patch notes.

And you my friend need to read the whole posts. I will condense it a bit...

jelinidas said:

So, I am a player who enjoys the fight and challenge of the guardians, no puzzles and plays solo. I am now supposed to target lvl1-lvl3 maps with guardians that range from mongbats to fire elementals instead of ancient wyrms, greater dragons and frost drakes etc? You see, its not always about just the loot! Its the adventure of finding the chest, digging the chest, killing the guards, and THEN the loot!

JollyJade said:

Gotta try the "group" levels next but this was insulting to anyone soloing 6s and 7s lol.

And you need to read that it was stated that if you could solo a 7 then you will be able to solo the 5

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Treasure Guardians & Encounter Difficulty