New Tmap proposals

jaytin

I would rather stab myself in the eye with a fork than do these puzzles to train up a skill...

Petra_Fyde

Perhaps the slider puzzles deserve a spot in the game, like the cylinder ones have Khaldun? 
If you don't train on puzzles, how do you train the skill?  I'd be fine training it on a pile of crates and chests as I did lockpick if they re-set on a shorter timer, but it's not really practical to train on crafted chests unless you also train tinkering to keep re-setting them. Ideas?

jaytin

A number of people who do t-hunts don't want puzzles, a number of people who do dungeon chests don't want them added there either, maybe some people just don't want to be forced to do puzzles? By all means add some extra area with the puzzles for people who like doing them, just please don't ruin the enjoyment of existing content to make an unused skill relevant again. Many people have complete t-hunters with a template that can't be added to and some people just don't want to have to GM another skill to get back to where they were before.

MissE

Petra_Fyde said:

Perhaps the slider puzzles deserve a spot in the game, like the cylinder ones have Khaldun? 
If you don't train on puzzles, how do you train the skill?  I'd be fine training it on a pile of crates and chests as I did lockpick if they re-set on a shorter timer, but it's not really practical to train on crafted chests unless you also train tinkering to keep re-setting them. Ideas?

Since the first introduction of this idea at the beginning of this fiasco I have trained up remove trap on prodo shard using the methods to always train up the skill. ANYONE could also have already had it trained.  You just stone off 3 skills on your lockpick char, buy up 30 detect hidden, train that to 50. Then put on 30 tinker skill and 30 remove trap skill make your boxes and work both tinkering and rt in conjunction with each other. 

Stone off or destroy the tinker skill when you are done. I am gm on remove trap now have been for a few weeks.  I do NOT need stupid puzzles to train it up.  But even if they do want an easy mode to train it up then put puzzles in the shop to assist ppl or make puzzle traps able to be made by a tinker for sale for people to train.  There is no need to put them on tmap chests or miasma chests. 

MissE

JollyJade said:

Wait until you see the loot in the new chests. The puzzles are not even the problem at this point. Even if the puzzles don't make it to prodo, the chests have 90% less loot on TC right now.

Even if you get over the puzzles, all the cut out loot will make you not bother with this anymore.

I wish things looked more positive, but for someone who spent hundreds of hours on prodo doing those chests it is crystal clear that all this will make you spend a lot more time (past are the day where you find an orb, a pardon, refinements, etc. in one chest), fight a lot less challenging guardians (even the highest levels on TC only spawned 4) and receive a lot less loot in return.

I didn't read about putting puzzles on Miasma chests. Pretty lame but if the loot goes live everything else won't matter anyway and this will be a dead profession apart from those people that only do maps on TC now and won't even bother on prodo once it's a year old. Some of them don't even recognize the current prodo loot when you show them lol.

Lipstick on a pig at this point.

Yep, I hear you, I have been looking at the so called 'new loot' spreadsheets that people are posting and still trying to see the improved loot that @Kyronix keeps insisting has been added and I am just not seeing it.  

I posted before what I would get out of ONE chest, and so far NOTHING I have seen comes close to what was in the chests.

I do NOT class gold and gems as loot, there are lot of other places in the game I can get them for a lot less effort.  Nor do I class timber boards etc as loot as again the are much better places to get that kind of stuff. 

Unless there are a at least 20 bits of artifact level loot in each chest it is a downgrade as frankly I am seeingONLY 1-2 bits to maybe 6 in the 'new' chests. Existing chests have triple that of arti level stuff.  A level 6 map now gives a minimum of about 12-15 arti level pieces and then a whole lot more of magic items some of which are still reasonably good if you are after say +15 jewels or 20 lrc pieces etc.  The pictures people are posting of legendaries are no better than most stuff i currently unravel from existing chests at major/greater artifact levels.   You maybe lucky to get ONE other item.  In existing chests you could pull an orb, pardon, alacrity, 6 essences, a minor arti from One chest, now lucky if you get one.

The other thing is how many of the new chests are people doing where they get NO item to keep? It seems for every chest where you may get one keeper item you do 10 chests where you get zip other than gold or gems.

Until I can test I can't see for myself and have to rely on what is being posted and looking at the spreadsheets I am seriously disappointed.

Petra_Fyde

when I spoke of training on dungeon chests, I meant with the currently existing traps, not puzzles. the traps exist, but they take so long to re-set they're not a feasible training method as is.  The sliders I would put in their own special place with their own rewards. Something like the Underworld puzzles, or a particular set of dungeon chests, as in Khaldun. 
And yes, it is possible to have already trained it and stoned it. I have. Other's haven't, so I was hoping to brainstorm an alternative training method that would be acceptable. 

JollyJade

MissE said:

Until I can test I can't see for myself and have to rely on what is being posted and looking at the spreadsheets I am seriously disappointed.

Before I actually went to TC I thought it's bad, but what I saw was worse than I could have ever imagined from what people post

A former level 7(!!!!!!) map, aka trove: 15 magic items, no keeper. Some gold and gems. The end.

I_was_there_recently

To train remove trap skill isn´t that hard.

I trained it just 4 weeks ago on Siege P. to GM from 0.

I didn´t used trapped tinkered chest. - The first 60 skill points I trained on Dungeon Chest in Shame Level 5 on that islands there (to have spellweaving selfress spell with you is very helpful) - The other 40 points I trained on that metal and wood chest in shops in the towns of Jhelom, Skara and Serpents hold. - Wasn´t that hard to GM the skill. I trained much harder and boring skills before.....

jelinidas

Minerva_Foxglove said:

 ..I think I said this before..put one of the pretty training puzzle boxes in the chest as loot . with something special in it and let us do the pozzle in our house . Or let someone else have it.

This is one of the best ideas I have seen for the puzzles! 

We all know they have way to much time and money invested in these new puzzles to just scrap them, they just need to find a "place" for them. This may be the winner!

LilyGrace

@MissE said:
”Since the first introduction of this idea at the beginning of this fiasco I have trained up remove trap on prodo shard using the methods to always train up the skill. ANYONE could also have already had it trained.  You just stone off 3 skills on your lockpick char, buy up 30 detect hidden, train that to 50. Then put on 30 tinker skill and 30 remove trap skill make your boxes and work both tinkering and rt in conjunction with each other.  

Stone off or destroy the tinker skill when you are done. I am gm on remove trap now have been for a few weeks.  I do NOT need stupid puzzles to train it up.  But even if they do want an easy mode to train it up then put puzzles in the shop to assist ppl or make puzzle traps able to be made by a tinker for sale for people to train.  There is no need to put them on tmap chests or miasma chests.”

So because you don’t mind the ridiculously boring and convoluted grind of working up a tinker, that you don’t need for anything else, and you’ll throw away later, it’s a good idea to leave RT training just as it is? How innovative of you. 

P.S. My idea of looking for "easy mode" is asking for bigger better loot in treasure chests but not wanting to make any additional effort to get it. 

MissE

LilyGrace said:

So because you don’t mind the ridiculously boring and convoluted grind of working up a tinker, that you don’t need for anything else, and you’ll throw away later, it’s a good idea to leave RT training just as it is? How innovative of you. 

P.S. My idea of looking for "easy mode" is asking for bigger better loot in treasure chests but not wanting to make any additional effort to get it. 

Yet again you want to flame what I say even after being warned. 

I have said anyone could have trained it up by now, but if NOT put it in the shop or let tinkers make kits so that people can use them to train up.   Anything they do to make it easier to train is basically putting it into easy mode from what it currently is irrespective of what you think. Puzzles for training remove trap should NOT be part of tmapping.  Shove em somewhere else.

Fine you don't agree, I get it, but quit flaming my posts, you already started in on personal attacks once and it seems you want to continue.

I have also  NOT asked for bigger and better loot in treasure chests either, show me where?  What you can't? NO as I have never said that,  I have said repeatedly that they should not be worse loot than what we currently have. And  every single post I have seen on loot, and those posted by treasure hunters that do a LOT of maps are saying the same thing.  The loot is worse.

If you are going to attribute bulldust comments to me then please give the source, as I am over your flaming. 

I never even asked for a loot upgrade to start with, tmapping for me was ok as it was, and I don't mind them changing it as long as they don't make it worse than what it is now, on all accounts it is.  I agree that it needed a loot overhaul and frankly don't even care if they add remove trap to the process for the effort, but so far they are adding remove trap, stupid puzzles and the loot is worse so I have every right to post my comments without YOU acting as some kinda fan boi for the process.

Kyronix

MissE said:

acting as some kinda fan boi for the process. 

Reposting what I put in the other thread because I think it bears repeating for those who are following this post more carefully.

While I appreciate everyone's point of view, this is something I do not appreciate because it shows zero respect for others who share differing opinions.

Some people will enjoy a feature.
Some people will not enjoy a feature.

This is ok. This is why we have iteration, and why we push things multiple times to TC1.

This narrative that if you aren't part of the negat-ocracy you are a "cheerleader/fan boi/in the circle" is neither helpful nor constructive.

I don't mean to single this specific post out, but I've been seeing this more and more and it really has no place in the constructive and thoughtful exchange environment we are building here.

Thanks for everyone's anticipated understanding. 

LilyGrace

I didn’t think what I said was flaming you. But since you’re receiving my comments that way I’ll refrain from communicating with you any further. 

Freelsy

Here are two pieces of gear I received from lvl 6 T-Maps about a year ago. I slacked off, and I really haven't done much T-Mapping since last summer (when these were acquired). So I cannot confirm or deny the existence of such awesome loot dropping anymore since the Abcess and Putrifyer loot table changes...

Is loot like this still possible with the loot table adjustment and new T-Map changes?

Pawain

   I wish! 

MissE

Kyronix said:

MissE said:

acting as some kinda fan boi for the process. 

Reposting what I put in the other thread because I think it bears repeating for those who are following this post more carefully.

While I appreciate everyone's point of view, this is something I do not appreciate because it shows zero respect for others who share differing opinions.

Some people will enjoy a feature.
Some people will not enjoy a feature.

This is ok. This is why we have iteration, and why we push things multiple times to TC1.

This narrative that if you aren't part of the negat-ocracy you are a "cheerleader/fan boi/in the circle" is neither helpful nor constructive.

I don't mean to single this specific post out, but I've been seeing this more and more and it really has no place in the constructive and thoughtful exchange environment we are building here.

Thanks for everyone's anticipated understanding. 

Sorry Kyronix what shows disrespect is a person who personally attacks me when I haven't been so much as talking to that person but talking to someone else.  That person decided it was good to call me names when I had not so much as made one comment to that person and has since decided whenever I make a post to flame me.   All due to the fact that that person disagrees with me, so sure let's have some respect.  I am entitled to my opinion without this person continually jumping on what I say JUST because I do not agree with them.

JollyJade

LOL, this is my third try stating my feedback, but the moderators keep finding reasons to lock or just remove. 

--------------------------------------------

So ist this loot on TC going to stay?

Please compare a level 6 map currently on prodo with the same map on TC1, it's pretty obvious it is a major nerf. Less items, some no longer spawning at all in there. This can't be right!

Please also look what T-Hunter here say: https://stratics.com/threads/publish-105-forgotten-treasures-release-2-on-test-center.409357/page-5

They all say the loot is worse, and that does not only mean item properties. And I've been on TC personally and can agree the only option if this goes live is to find some other hobby.

I got a full locker of 6 and 7 maps, and they will all be worthless. The idea to force us doing low level maps with Mongbats is insulting. Just put a clicky in Haven to give us SoTs and all the stuff we no longer find in high level maps.

Kyronix

JollyJade said:

So ist this loot on TC going to stay?

We have multiple changes in the works based on all the feedback people have provided. One of those is to address the loot.  Look for an update to TC1 soon.

JollyJade

Kyronix said:

JollyJade said:

So ist this loot on TC going to stay?

We have multiple changes in the works based on all the feedback people have provided. One of those is to address the loot.  Look for an update to TC1 soon.

Thank you. This is good to hear. I was really getting worried this might be it. I will see how level 6 and 7s look compared to prodo then..

Drakelord

Mervyn said:

Is it a coincidence that the people who aren’t very good at puzzles also don’t want them on T-Maps?

sounds a little self serving to me.

I rather not be standing in the wild trying to solve a dumb puzzle that is causing me great damage every time I make a wrong guess, I do not do the tiger club cages alone also and do them only at Guild events where we can cross assist each other with the multi bandits. 

I solo most of my chests only saving the Level 7s when I get one to do as a guild event to tame Frost dragons.  Now I am told that if I do not want to do the maps that require remove trap and give you a puzzle to do the lower level ones that only require me to cast untrap.  Oh wow sounds like so much fun.  

Then there is the matter of the numbers, last chests I did on TC the numbers really were low on the amount of loot in a chest.  On mine home shard a L6 map will give me a full bag to be carted off to be unraveled.  On TC I was seeing far less of loot, one chest had six items in it.  SIX ITEMS????  

ZekeTerra

Did 5 Level 1's and got gold/gems and a single pink, but no other items.  Did 5 level 2's and only got gold/gems.  Finally got something on the level 3's but couldn't take them out of the chests 3 out of 5 times.  I did get a nice skull sword tho, and it actually had decent mods for a mage - MW -5, SC -1, 100 Luck.  I've done about 20 Level 4's with only 2 or 3 Legendary's of which none were really useable.  I'm wearing as 2100+ Luck suit (no statue) and all were done in Tram.  I still hate the puzzles in L4.

Uriah_Heep

Tomorrow is Friday.  Any communication coming down about what the final release is really gonna look like?  
Maps as well as turnin points and rewards?
Any guesstimate on a WW release?

Uriah_Heep

ZekeTerra said:

.  I still hate the puzzles in L4.

That barrel? (I think they call it) puzzle, havent solved at all, just failed and blew stuff up
The other one I have no clue what the goal is/
The picture one is okay, not bad.   But it's a moot point since it takes RT to get to it.
I'm not training it.

ZekeTerra

Should have been MW -15 not -5  (don't know how to edit it lol)

Kirthag

Uriah_Heep said:

Tomorrow is Friday.  Any communication coming down about what the final release is really gonna look like?  
Maps as well as turnin points and rewards?
Any guesstimate on a WW release?

might hear something tomorrow... at least i hope so. is a long weekend and i wanna plan my time
if nothing new in TC, i'll go do other things.

Uriah_Heep

I wish they would just bite the bullet and say:\

It is gonna be like this-and lay it out.
Get it done and over with, stop the bleeding, and move on.

enough drama on both sides, send it out, like always, if we like it we will play it, if we don't we won't.    *shrugs*

Kyronix

We have some pretty substantial changes based on the feedback we have received going through internal review.  Look for more information tomorrow on UO.com.

Pawain

Kyronix said:

We have some pretty substantial changes based on the feedback we have received going through internal review.  Look for more information tomorrow on UO.com.

Take your time.  I still have Beacons to kill.

Thanks

Margrette

@Kyronix, will there be a gargish version of the skull longsword and the skull gnarled staff?  None of the skull longswords and staves I've found in Ter Mur have been made for gargoyles.  I was using a human treasure hunter, but she always get a lot of gargish items from chests in Ter Mur, so I'm not sure if that's why she never found gargish versions of the skull longsword or staff.

MissE

I have now done 3 trove chests

first had gold/gems and about 18 items half of which were arti level (1 legendary) rest magic items (gold color chest) nothing else of value

 the second had nothing in it at all (brown chest)

the third had stuff in it, no gold, but couldnt open the gem bag nor pick up any item.  All the stuff decayed before I destroyed the chest, about 4 mins (brown chest)

Not sure if it is worth testing this further.