What Is The Real World Official Stance On Using Scripts?

McDougle

Yoshi said:

Mariah said:

Please note, while this forum has a bugs section, it is not the only, or even primary, way for reporting bugs.

https://uo.com/support/

The Contact Form allows players to submit petitions for assistance for account and billing issues as well as to report feedback, GM/EM reviews, or bugs in Ultima Online. The form features a drop-down menu containing the various categories for which players can submit their queries.

"I don't recommend this method, because you're unable to see what other people have reported if they have reported a similar issue, you also will not receive any response (other than an automatic email to say the report was received), whereas at least here a player may be able to assist you, also you're unable to keep track of the report that either you or someone else has submitted.

At least here you can see as a public record that a bug/exploit has been reported

EG https://forum.uo.com/discussion/1883/shadowguard-orchard/p2

reported 2018, confirmed by Misk 2020, still bugged/exploitable today June 2022.

if someone had instead used the contact form, there would be no accountability, unless there is a website we can visit to see all the submitted and unactioned reports?

"

Asking for acknowledgement and accountability is apparently frowned upon and asking for communication makes you a trolling bad person..

Mariah

@Yoshi do both, but keep the exploit information to the bug report, not the forum post. You could mention in the post the fact that a report with more detailed information has been submitted.

@McDougle Not totally true, but the number of threads started on the same topic, or threads hijacked by that topic, can be construed as trolling.

AmberWitch

I think the form is a good idea to use to report the mechanics issue directly to those that have the ways and means to do something about it. I think further healthy discussion on the forum helps the players as well as the Devs as it tends to give a more well rounded picture of what's happening and feedback.

AmberWitch

'Often' the only way we receive acknowledgement and know if something has been addressed is by looking at future publish notes or the newsletter. If I see one of the devs post a response to a public forum issue I take that as a bonus, not as a requirement.

This game has been a part of my life for almost 25 years now. I have paid a monthly fee per the contract, per account for almost 25 years. I expect that the terms I agreed to will be enforced to all parties that pay that same monthly fee per account, without exception. To turn a blind eye, to allow some accounts to interact with the mechanics of the game in a way that violates the agreed to contract, be it to allow reds in Tram, to incorporate a script that gives a player an edge over another,  to ride the rails so a computer plays the game, not a person, on and on giving one player the advantage over another, both having agreed to exactly the same terms and pay the same contract price is unethical, violates the agreement.

Again, I'm just trying to get a serious issue to be addressed one way or the other.  Please, either way, start cleaning house and enforce what the agreement states or change it so that scripting is allowed and those scripts be made available to all. Both parties need to uphold their end of the agreement.

Urge

Mariah said:

@ Yoshi do both, but keep the exploit information to the bug report, not the forum post. You could mention in the post the fact that a report with more detailed information has been submitted.

I am in no way downing the team as i feel they have way too much on their plate trying to keep UO alive while dealing with far too much naggy bs but...

I've reported 2 straight mechanic abuse bugs in 2017 (fairly neat bug) and again in 2019 (gamebreaking VvV exploit) using the contact form, by DM with step by step screenshots and even in game. 

I just tested and they still work as of today. How many years have to go by before these are considered non bannable features? 

McDougle

Urge said:

Mariah said:

@ Yoshi do both, but keep the exploit information to the bug report, not the forum post. You could mention in the post the fact that a report with more detailed information has been submitted.

I am in no way downing the team as i feel they have way too much on their plate trying to keep UO alive while dealing with far too much naggy bs but...

I've reported 2 straight mechanic abuse bugs in 2017 (fairly neat bug) and again in 2019 (gamebreaking VvV exploit) using the contact form, by DM with step by step screenshots and even in game. 

I just tested and they still work as of today. How many years have to go by before these are considered non bannable features? 

I find the suggestion that the developers are too busy coding NL  to bother to reply absurd. Does anyone really believe they've been coding the days away for what 2 years since the NL announcement. ? 

Seth

I guess the new NLS project is to impress EA boardroom.

"Fixing bugs" is supposed to be the staple, not ground breaking or anything that scores point with the higher up above BS. 

However, fixing say 100 bugs per month should be part of Broadsword KPI Key Performance Indicator. Bugs are the primary concern now.

Again scripts are around because we are still using a 1997 created software. Think of Windows 3.1 or XP, an ancient architecture that is easily hacked in 2022.

If you do online banking in those old Unsupported Windows version, good luck to you.

Looking at UO forum bugs section, does the game look like its supported now? 

Creating new content is not game support! NLS is not game support!

Instead of doing NLS that splits the active playing population from production shard, they should focus on building the final client that is script resistant, and visually acceptable to both old and new players (and marketing).

Pawain

Seth said:

I guess the new NLS project is to impress EA boardroom.

"Fixing bugs" is supposed to be the staple, not ground breaking or anything that scores point with the higher up above BS. 

However, fixing say 100 bugs per month should be part of Broadsword KPI Key Performance Indicator. Bugs are the primary concern now.

Again scripts are around because we are still using a 1997 created software. Think of Windows 3.1 or XP, an ancient architecture that is easily hacked in 2022.

If you do online banking in those old Unsupported Windows version, good luck to you.

Looking at UO forum bugs section, does the game look like its supported now? 

Creating new content is not game support! NLS is not game support!

Instead of doing NLS that splits the active playing population from production shard, they should focus on building the final client that is script resistant, and visually acceptable to both old and new players (and marketing).

I play every day and not 1 bug bothers my game play.   Maybe that is why they concentrate on other things.

McDougle

Pawain said:

Seth said:

I guess the new NLS project is to impress EA boardroom.

"Fixing bugs" is supposed to be the staple, not ground breaking or anything that scores point with the higher up above BS. 

However, fixing say 100 bugs per month should be part of Broadsword KPI Key Performance Indicator. Bugs are the primary concern now.

Again scripts are around because we are still using a 1997 created software. Think of Windows 3.1 or XP, an ancient architecture that is easily hacked in 2022.

If you do online banking in those old Unsupported Windows version, good luck to you.

Looking at UO forum bugs section, does the game look like its supported now? 

Creating new content is not game support! NLS is not game support!

Instead of doing NLS that splits the active playing population from production shard, they should focus on building the final client that is script resistant, and visually acceptable to both old and new players (and marketing).

I play every day and not 1 bug bothers my game play.   Maybe that is why they concentrate on other things.

A very selfish attitude....

Pawain

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

Seth said:

I guess the new NLS project is to impress EA boardroom.

"Fixing bugs" is supposed to be the staple, not ground breaking or anything that scores point with the higher up above BS. 

However, fixing say 100 bugs per month should be part of Broadsword KPI Key Performance Indicator. Bugs are the primary concern now.

Again scripts are around because we are still using a 1997 created software. Think of Windows 3.1 or XP, an ancient architecture that is easily hacked in 2022.

If you do online banking in those old Unsupported Windows version, good luck to you.

Looking at UO forum bugs section, does the game look like its supported now? 

Creating new content is not game support! NLS is not game support!

Instead of doing NLS that splits the active playing population from production shard, they should focus on building the final client that is script resistant, and visually acceptable to both old and new players (and marketing).

I play every day and not 1 bug bothers my game play.   Maybe that is why they concentrate on other things.

A very selfish attitude....

Or using time fixing things that do not affect most players seems selfish.

Name 5 bugs that hinder game play for everyone every day.

Content is a better thing to work on.

McDougle

Ghost mobs
Spellbook staps 
Pets flagging 
Targeting issues 
I could list many more that affect pvp 

Pawain

McDougle said:

Ghost mobs
Spellbook staps 
Pets flagging 
Targeting issues 
I could list many more that affect pvp 

Not everyone plays EC, few have the strap.  Does your book disappear?  No you still have it.

They tried to fix targeting, but mobs are dying every day still.

2% of UO pvp.

Yoshi

“Pawain, I’m assuming you don’t come across many bugs standing at Luna with a lantern in hand.
i am killed over 10 times a day due to different official client bugs.
attunement stopping to cast when still on cooldown. 

Failing to mount new VvV mount in combat mode
select nearest/next hostile targeting dead pets, neutral animals and allied criminals
Missing debuff for nerve strike so can’t tell if you need to red pot or trapped box
Missing debuff for vicious bite, 
Snap back effect when hitting wall of stone



All of these bugs are exclusive to official client”

Pawain

Yoshi said:

“Pawain, I’m assuming you don’t come across many bugs standing at Luna with a lantern in hand.
i am killed over 10 times a day due to different official client bugs.
attunement stopping to cast when still on cooldown. 

Failing to mount new VvV mount in combat mode
select nearest/next hostile targeting dead pets, neutral animals and allied criminals
Missing debuff for nerve strike so can’t tell if you need to red pot or trapped box
Missing debuff for vicious bite, 
Snap back effect when hitting wall of stone



All of these bugs are exclusive to official client”

None of those things have ever happened to me and many other players.  Good Luck on ur agenda.

ForeverFun

The only types of bugs that affect all players would be things like a bug preventing login, houses getting deleted without owner consent/involvement, etc.  Thankfully, those are rare, so the developers can spend cycles on fixing other bugs.

1. The "infinite" skill bugs arguably only negatively affected PVP victims.  Yet it was fixed.
2. The "hole" awesome quantity of spawning only affected players doing the first few days of destard.  Yet that was fixed/changed.
3. The "ghost mobs" issue that continues to affect EC players, an attempt was made to fix it.
4. Pets going wild only affected players that had pet followers.  Yet it was fixed.
5. A myriad of changes have been made to underwater, even though not everybody did underwater.  Fixes still need to be made to that.
6. ...

The "ghost mobs" and targeting/flagging issues affect many players daily, I'm sure.  These manifest at champ spawns in TRAM and FEL regularly.  Also manifest at blackthorn captains events.

Bugs in operating systems that do not affect all users are fixed pretty regularly.

I smell a troll at the very least, else it's just somebody that has no business running a software project speaking in this thread.

Yoshi

“No none have happened to many players, because they’ve migrated to a client that does not suffer those issues…
and I’m probably going to do the same.



I was listing bugs that affect only official client but there are some that affect all.
targets out of range/cannot be seen losing cursor and having to recast spell.
Battle lust does nothing 
Flagging bug with summons - I actually abused that badly yesterday, I visited a vendor in fel in the middle of nowhere, there was someone on a blue beetle who had casted an EV to kill an ogre or something, I attacked his EV and this made him flag on me (bug) so he couldn’t recall or enter house and i killed him and his blue beetle and looted over 1 plat worth of things i presume were being moved somewhere for auction safe. I felt a little bad but I reported the bug ages ago..
some people needs to rage for it to be addressed. Hopefully Pawain it will happen to you soon. It is possible instead to turn blue players red if I purposefully die instead of killing them. I may have to start doing that to make more people complain”

Seth

The proof that bugs so matter to players is when they don't spend time playing but rather choose to write futile complaints on the forum because reporting bugs via email does not work. 

What other proof do I need when we have solid black and white written 100s or 1000s of bugs posted. If they do not matter what on earth are we wasting time posting here, are we paid $10 for each post here?

Even GMs get paid. We pay $10 a month to write bugs and complaints in the forum?

McDougle

Seth said:

The proof that bugs so matter to players is when they don't spend time playing but rather choose to write futile complaints on the forum because reporting bugs via email does not work. 

What other proof do I need when we have solid black and white written 100s or 1000s of bugs posted. If they do not matter what on earth are we wasting time posting here, are we paid $10 for each post here?

Even GMs get paid. We pay $10 a month to write bugs and complaints in the forum?

Don't let him bait you @Seth our complaints are valid despite his refusal to see the reality of things 

Yoshi

“I think that with NL
they should only allow official clients users to log into that shard.
Now hear me out before I am branded an extremist, I know most people haven’t logged in on an official client for a while but NL is supposed to be a new experience and NL is not necessarily there for current players, I’m sure it’s to attract new subscribers. And it’s not a good idea in my opinion to throw these new players in the deep end, and have them competing against sync scripters etc who can literally run rings and them”

popps

Yoshi said:

“I think that with NL
they should only allow official clients users to log into that shard.
Now hear me out before I am branded an extremist, I know most people haven’t logged in on an official client for a while but NL is supposed to be a new experience and NL is not necessarily there for current players, I’m sure it’s to attract new subscribers. And it’s not a good idea in my opinion to throw these new players in the deep end, and have them competing against sync scripters etc who can literally run rings and them”

I really doubt that Broadsword will only let subscribed accounts into New Legacy because that would, at least to my opinion, defy the entire point of having New Legacy exist to attract "new" players to Ultima Online....

If only existing, subscribed players were to be able to get into New Legacy, I do not see how NL could work to attract new players to UO....

I do agree with you that it would be a bad idea to then have these new players be facing sync scripters etc. since likely this could either drive them away from wanting to keep playing the game or have them become also scripters in order to then be able to play in a competitive environment...

And that is why I have been saying for years now, that scripting should be addressed and dealt with on its own, not with changes to the game Design which eventually only affect very marginally scripters who often script unattended, but instead hurt, and a great deal, the gameplay of legit, non-scripting players who actually spend their time at the keyboard...

Yoshi

“Popps you misunderstood my post, 
I was saying they should only allow official client on NL. Didn’t say they should only allow current subscribers, if anything they should not allow current subscribers. That won’t be popular with current subscribers as I imagine only a small percentage use an official client”

Seth

I guess that all the CC 3rd party are designed for CC with production shards and may not work with new NLS with different coding. They have also not been updated for a long time.

popps

Yoshi said:

“Popps you misunderstood my post, 
I was saying they should only allow official client on NL. Didn’t say they should only allow current subscribers, if anything they should not allow current subscribers. That won’t be popular with current subscribers as I imagine only a small percentage use an official client”

Ah, OK then, if you meant just the client being used to play UO, regardless whether a player is subscribed or playing Endless Journey, then I agree, it would be beneficial if NL could only be played using the official client.

Seth

I dont think the intention of classic client was to allow 3rd party. 

Already said, it is a 1997 era software. 

Maybe they should design a new client  to go with the NLS. 

Yoshi

“The standard scripts that I observe most players use in fel on a daily basis (sorry I don’t have the official names of the scripts as I don’t have that client installed yet):
auto toggle weapon special between spells
Auto seed of life at low hp
auto maintain str/dex potion (when you use purge magic you’ll see this in action)
auto re-arm when disarmed
auto bandage apply
teleport relative up (teleports you to floor above, without this script an official client user often cannot teleport to the same location)
wall of stone target relative - places wall of stone 3 tiles in front of target depending on direction target is facing.
auto trapped box on paralise or nerve strike (this is particularly unfair as official client does not even give a debuff for nerve strike to user so can’t even do it manually) 
Some sort of teleport script that allows people to teleport exactly 8 tiles..
some sort of script that allows stealthers in animal form to run full speed stealthed without stopping and without revealing - so I think the script makes it walk for a split second after exactly every 9 steps or whatever. 

Auto shurikan enemy mount 
auto run around objects (same as EC)

and as part of sync script, auto attack disarmed target (one member disarms - upon successful disarm auto sends a signal to all other users to auto attack that target) I actually think this last one should be construed as multi boxing

I also see auto cure pot upon poison, auto apple when slept or mortaled. But I don’t really have an issue with that as I don’t think that gives any advantage.

it’s the Wild West, they’re a little irritating but even with all those checked enabled, people still manage to die somehow”

Seth

So the official stance is probably based on the 100% time spent:
98% NLS
1.2% seasonal content
0.79999% routine maintenance
0.00001% bug fixes
0% counter scripts or cheats

Yoshi

"Actually I know a friend of a friend who just this week got banned for multiboxing, apparently had $2k worth of items on the account.

Then again, a friend got banned this week(hopefully temp) just for being abusive to another player.."

popps

Yoshi said:

"Actually I know a friend of a friend who just this week got banned for multiboxing, apparently had $2k worth of items on the account.

Then again, a friend got banned this week(hopefully temp) just for being abusive to another player.."

That's interesting information....

Permanent Ban, or a temporary one ?

Also, those $2k worth of items, were they actually in possession of the account that was multiboxing and thus banned or, on a different account but which benefitted from that multiboxing ?

The reason for the question is, that usually, players do not hold the core of their "goodies" and worth of items on those accounts which they use to do things in the game which could ban them if caught.... they usually use throw away, disposable accounts which they could not care less if they get caught and banned...

So, "if" that account having the goodies that was banned was actually "associated" to the one account actually caught doing the multiboxing and "also " banned, that could be good news as a deterrant against cheating in Ultima Online because players no longer would only fear those disposable, throw away accounts (often EJ ones) which they do not care much about, but, also, their good, "main" accounts which they usually do not risk doing illegal things with in the game but which, ultimately, benefit from that cheatingon other, disposable, throw away accounts...

Yoshi

"It's my understanding that 4 EJ accounts got banned, and the EJ accounts were associated with the paid account which held the possessions, i'm assuming they were caught out this month by the new rules where all the associated accounts get banned (I was surprised they didn't do this from day 1). But i'm only hearing this third hand. I hear it was permanent. 

As for this being a deterrent, most people do not associate their EJ accounts that are engaged in rule breaking, with their paid accounts." 

keven2002

Yoshi said:

“The standard scripts that I observe most players use in fel on a daily basis (sorry I don’t have the official names of the scripts as I don’t have that client installed yet):
auto toggle weapon special between spells
Auto seed of life at low hp
auto maintain str/dex potion (when you use purge magic you’ll see this in action)
auto re-arm when disarmed
auto bandage apply
teleport relative up (teleports you to floor above, without this script an official client user often cannot teleport to the same location)
wall of stone target relative - places wall of stone 3 tiles in front of target depending on direction target is facing.
auto trapped box on paralise or nerve strike (this is particularly unfair as official client does not even give a debuff for nerve strike to user so can’t even do it manually) 
Some sort of teleport script that allows people to teleport exactly 8 tiles..
some sort of script that allows stealthers in animal form to run full speed stealthed without stopping and without revealing - so I think the script makes it walk for a split second after exactly every 9 steps or whatever. 

Auto shurikan enemy mount 
auto run around objects (same as EC)

and as part of sync script, auto attack disarmed target (one member disarms - upon successful disarm auto sends a signal to all other users to auto attack that target) I actually think this last one should be construed as multi boxing

Good running list there and perfect example of why I stopped actively PvPing. When people use the auto potion / trapped box it's pretty obvious when they don't have resist because they are running through para and para field like it's nothing (while still flagging you) and aren't poisoned for more than a fraction of a second ever (I've had guys go through 30 pots by just poisoning them repeatedly). If they are using these scripts, they really don't even need any resist because poison/para are totally negated and throw an auto apple on top and even curse won't be applied for long. These guys are almost impossible for me to kill. 

I've also noticed something that looks like a script (maybe it's not but who knows) the few days when Destard was open in Fel on ATL where a person was dismounted but started spamming "all follow me" as they were running around healing/teleporting/curing their mount and was able to keep their mount alive (mainly because it followed them the whole time) and run off. Meanwhile, I get dismounted and can't even pull my mounts health bar before it's poisoned and AI spammed to death.