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What Is The Real World Official Stance On Using Scripts?

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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2022
    “I have some answers to questions or concerns raised here however cannot post as,

    I have been given an official warning not to refer to unofficial client and failure to do so will result in suspension of my ability to post.

    But you all can continue to discuss and speculate it seems as thread has not been deleted?”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    edited June 2022
    Maybe they issue warnings to serial xxxx who knew about these programs for years and possess legendary skills in uncovering exploits in the system.   >:)

    The rest of us are just innocent, common folks intrigued by what we googled about CC scripts only recently, after seeing the egg bots and destard pile up...  o:)
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    Seth said:
    Maybe they issue warnings to serial xxxx who knew about these programs for years and possess legendary skills in uncovering exploits in the system.   >:)

    The rest of us are just innocent, common folks intrigued by what we googled about CC scripts only recently, after seeing the egg bots and destard pile up...  o:)
    Watching videos of illegal clients was eye opening 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    McDougle said:
    Seth said:
    Maybe they issue warnings to serial xxxx who knew about these programs for years and possess legendary skills in uncovering exploits in the system.   >:)

    The rest of us are just innocent, common folks intrigued by what we googled about CC scripts only recently, after seeing the egg bots and destard pile up...  o:)
    Watching videos of illegal clients was eye opening 
    Yup, and they can be addictive. 
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • AmberWitchAmberWitch Posts: 685

    After 60 posts to this thread there seems to be few known official statements and per Jepeth’s research those seem to be evasive and inconclusive. The most recent statement from the April 2021 M&G was from Kyronix saying they’ll bring it up with Mesanna and she’ll address it...... :p

     For the heck of it I started perusing the UO Newsletters that I could find easily, to look at the CS actions regarding 3rd party programing and found actions were taken for such back in 2020 through March 2021.

     An example of such:

    January 21 Newsletter #5

    Finally, here are the CS actions for the month of December:
    24 Solicitation
    2   Disruptive Behavior
    8   Third Party Program
    87 Macroing

     So this leads me to understand that there is the ability to determine 3rd party use. From what I could find in the newsletters sometime after March 2021 actions for 3rd party programs stopped.  Understand that there may have been, I just couldn’t locate the newsletters April - August in the hour I gave myself to research. I don't know if there were any during that time period. After August there were none.

    If non-communication is the appropriate way to communicate because of the reasons people have stated then each will glean what they want from that silence. A lack of clarity in any response over time from those that hold the all the cards only causes friction. From most of the posts it's understood that people, 'other people,' use scripts commonly without recourse. To me that speaks as loudly and clearly as Jepeth's research.

     Ultima Online has been a world shaker in the gaming industry and I don’t know… maybe it’s time to shake things up again and bite the bullet and just have a forum where folk can post scripts so everyone has access to them. We can just let the bots and scripts battle it out and see where it all ends up.

    Meanwhile I’ll be that little witch who doesn’t care about gold or uber suits having a blast playing the way that I’ve played for almost 25 years now.

    Respectfully,
    AW
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,023
    edited June 2022
    At the top left of a newsletter it has a clicky for past issues.

    That takes you here:
    https://us9.campaign-archive.com/home/?u=17d7bd79de495239fca33bcf5&id=3b563e3983

    It just goes back to 2019.

    The latest newsletter:

    2 - Abuse of game mechanics 
    5 - Solicitation 
    71-  Macroing 
    79 - Multiboxing
    3 - Disruptive Behavior
    1 - Physical Harassment
    2 - Staff Impersonation

    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    edited June 2022

    After 60 posts to this thread there seems to be few known official statements and per Jepeth’s research those seem to be evasive and inconclusive. The most recent statement from the April 2021 M&G was from Kyronix saying they’ll bring it up with Mesanna and she’ll address it...... :p

     For the heck of it I started perusing the UO Newsletters that I could find easily, to look at the CS actions regarding 3rd party programing and found actions were taken for such back in 2020 through March 2021.

     An example of such:

    January 21 Newsletter #5

    Finally, here are the CS actions for the month of December:
    24 Solicitation
    2   Disruptive Behavior
    8   Third Party Program
    87 Macroing

     So this leads me to understand that there is the ability to determine 3rd party use. From what I could find in the newsletters sometime after March 2021 actions for 3rd party programs stopped.  Understand that there may have been, I just couldn’t locate the newsletters April - August in the hour I gave myself to research. I don't know if there were any during that time period. After August there were none.

    If non-communication is the appropriate way to communicate because of the reasons people have stated then each will glean what they want from that silence. A lack of clarity in any response over time from those that hold the all the cards only causes friction. From most of the posts it's understood that people, 'other people,' use scripts commonly without recourse. To me that speaks as loudly and clearly as Jepeth's research.

     Ultima Online has been a world shaker in the gaming industry and I don’t know… maybe it’s time to shake things up again and bite the bullet and just have a forum where folk can post scripts so everyone has access to them. We can just let the bots and scripts battle it out and see where it all ends up.

    Meanwhile I’ll be that little witch who doesn’t care about gold or uber suits having a blast playing the way that I’ve played for almost 25 years now.

    Respectfully,
    AW
    Agreed, the actions take are generic descriptions but does not addresss script actions.

    It says ban 3rd party and macro, but what actions were banned? EC and CC both have some macro ability though not comparable to 3rd party. 

    Multi boxing is an action but obviously related to specific 3rd party which I don’t know which.

    Last but not least, they cannot even understand what is called “update the URL” on the webpage header. So everytime someone comes in to forum has to ask about it, and others will provide 2 standard answers
    1) this is the updated newsletter link
    2) pls signup for newsletter.

    But is it so difficult to just cut and paste the new link on the official webpage header that we have to repeat and repeat this request. This is basic, 1995 webpage design requirement, update the xxxxxxxdamn link.

    What sickens me is that response are showing this game is like those free unsupported games in Steam, back to beta, or going-to sunset soon. Support is worse if not the same as some free softwares.

    ‘’In 2015 when I first returned, UO assist was broken in some parts. I emailed the Tugsoft for help and immediately they rectified it. Hey, I was not even paying a Sub to them.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2022
    “I can show many screenshots of ally members being pulled by gms for trashtalking etc, GMs then happily let them go on their way and don’t mention anything about the client they are using.

    but what is kinda funny is when people accuse other people of using this script or that script in PvP, they will share videos and screenshots saying look no cheats and forget that their whole client is not even legal and the whole client is technically a cheat. 

    Even when they try and crop an image to post here, it has been so many years since they used an official client that they forget that conflags and houses etc don’t look like that on official client.

    Sync scripting even used to be considered cheating where one person controls the targeting and release of spells so you’re almost multiboxing with other people’s spells/attacks and this gets shared to ally members. But now every guild seems to do it, it’s just part of the game.
    But this just makes the official client targeting bugs even worse. If you’re playing against an opponent team who can all target someone on your team instantly, but let us say everyone on your team was using official client and they had to scroll through all the invalid neutral animals, dead pets, grey fellow guild members before they target the right orange…
    Okay first time team dies irritating, 10’000th time team dies, they get their whole guild to download client and sync script too.
    But even without sync scripting the classic client targeting issues make the client uncompetitive. Yes you can still play it, but you will die over and over and over due to the client. Try running away from 10 people when you’re the only one who doesn’t auto run around trees, let’s see how far you get..
    i don’t condone it but you also cannot condemn them.
    there were 50+ people running around yew last night, probably 1 on an official client, they going to ban them?
    “
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    Yoshi said:
    “I can show many screenshots of ally members being pulled by gms for trashtalking etc, GMs then happily let them go on their way and don’t mention anything about the client they are using”
    But have YOU reported them for using said client? Have you considered that you and your non reporting are as much the problem as these cheaters are?
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2022
    “Report what? 
    So what would I write in my report? 
    Dear GM, this group of people have got so sick of targeting bugs not being addressed that they made their own client to fix targeting issues, please ban them for loving the game so much..so I can play the game alone.

    it’s same as trying to report someone for using PInco’s


    I am just grateful to have so many people to play with. Occasionally someone comes out with an unbalancing script like the dismount script but this got addressed.
    but it gets increasingly difficult to report a bug when you cannot describe the extent it is exploited or extent that the classic client is handicapped due to an apparent forum regulation”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,021
    edited June 2022
    Yoshi said:
    “I can show many screenshots of ally members being pulled by gms for trashtalking etc, GMs then happily let them go on their way and don’t mention anything about the client they are using.

    but what is kinda funny is when people accuse other people of using this script or that script in PvP, they will share videos and screenshots saying look no cheats and forget that their whole client is not even legal and the whole client is technically a cheat. 

    Even when they try and crop an image to post here, it has been so many years since they used an official client that they forget that conflags and houses etc don’t look like that on official client.

    Sync scripting even used to be considered cheating where one person controls the targeting and release of spells so you’re almost multiboxing with other people’s spells/attacks and this gets shared to ally members. But now every guild seems to do it, it’s just part of the game.
    But this just makes the official client targeting bugs even worse. If you’re playing against an opponent team who can all target someone on your team instantly, but let us say everyone on your team was using official client and they had to scroll through all the invalid neutral animals, dead pets, grey fellow guild members before they target the right orange…
    Okay first time team dies irritating, 10’000th time team dies, they get their whole guild to download client and sync script too.
    But even without sync scripting the classic client targeting issues make the client uncompetitive. Yes you can still play it, but you will die over and over and over due to the client. Try running away from 10 people when you’re the only one who doesn’t auto run around trees, let’s see how far you get..
    i don’t condone it but you also cannot condemn them.
    there were 50+ people running around yew last night, probably 1 on an official client, they going to ban them?
    “
    Sync scripting even used to be considered cheating where one person controls the targeting and release of spells so you’re almost multiboxing with other people’s spells/attacks and this gets shared to ally members. But now every guild seems to do it, it’s just part of the game.

    If Sync scripting is so largely used, considering how much powerfull it is in PvP, this means that, for those players who do not Sync Script, there is just not a chance for them to PvP.... right ?

    But then, if so, HOW COME that, to my understanding, Sync Scripting is NOT permitted by Ultima Online's TOS ?

    Something here looks to not add up.... does it ?

    It is not possible to PvP unless one does not Sync Script and, yet, the TOS does not allow a player to Sync Script.

    Something here looks dead wrong to me....

    Furthermore, you mention the dismounting script as unbalancing.... so much that it got fixed... well, at least to my opinion, the Sync script looks far worse unbalancing as compared to the dismount fix and, yet, I understand, it never got addressed as the dismount one did....


  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 1,007
    popps said:
    Yoshi said:
    “I can show many screenshots of ally members being pulled by gms for trashtalking etc, GMs then happily let them go on their way and don’t mention anything about the client they are using.

    but what is kinda funny is when people accuse other people of using this script or that script in PvP, they will share videos and screenshots saying look no cheats and forget that their whole client is not even legal and the whole client is technically a cheat. 

    Even when they try and crop an image to post here, it has been so many years since they used an official client that they forget that conflags and houses etc don’t look like that on official client.

    Sync scripting even used to be considered cheating where one person controls the targeting and release of spells so you’re almost multiboxing with other people’s spells/attacks and this gets shared to ally members. But now every guild seems to do it, it’s just part of the game.
    But this just makes the official client targeting bugs even worse. If you’re playing against an opponent team who can all target someone on your team instantly, but let us say everyone on your team was using official client and they had to scroll through all the invalid neutral animals, dead pets, grey fellow guild members before they target the right orange…
    Okay first time team dies irritating, 10’000th time team dies, they get their whole guild to download client and sync script too.
    But even without sync scripting the classic client targeting issues make the client uncompetitive. Yes you can still play it, but you will die over and over and over due to the client. Try running away from 10 people when you’re the only one who doesn’t auto run around trees, let’s see how far you get..
    i don’t condone it but you also cannot condemn them.
    there were 50+ people running around yew last night, probably 1 on an official client, they going to ban them?
    “
    Sync scripting even used to be considered cheating where one person controls the targeting and release of spells so you’re almost multiboxing with other people’s spells/attacks and this gets shared to ally members. But now every guild seems to do it, it’s just part of the game.

    If Sync scripting is so largely used, considering how much powerfull it is in PvP, this means that, for those players who do not Sync Script, there is just not a chance for them to PvP.... right ?

    But then, if so, HOW COME that, to my understanding, Sync Scripting is NOT permitted by Ultima Online's TOS ?

    Something here looks to not add up.... does it ?

    It is not possible to PvP unless one does not Sync Script and, yet, the TOS does not allow a player to Sync Script.

    Something here looks dead wrong to me....

    Furthermore, you mention the dismounting script as unbalancing.... so much that it got fixed... well, at least to my opinion, the Sync script looks far worse unbalancing as compared to the dismount fix and, yet, I understand, it never got addressed as the dismount one did....


    can you try that again with less flannel and comas, get to the point......
  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,239Moderator
    From the 'Media' link above select 'Newsletter archive'
    In the archive click on any link
    At the top of that page click on 'past issues'
    which takes you to the page @Pawain linked above.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2022
    “I wouldn’t say sync scripting is worse than the (now fixed) dismount script no. I would say that sync scripting is only advantageous because there is no mobiles bar in CC, if everyone used EC which has a mobiles bar you can all synchronise a spell drop together manually with audio commands over discord, as there are less targeting problems with mobiles bar. Also it’s prob possible to repeat a sync script using EC UI, as the target serial is sent through alliance chat. 
    The solution is to give official  CC users a mobiles bar and fix the bugs so they don’t feel a need to download another client to target enemies.

    when players get comfortable playing with some scripts, it’s a gateway to more nefarious things like creating egg collecting bots.”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    “There is no new things being said here, people have been asking for target bug fixes in official CC for 5+ years”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    edited June 2022
    Mariah said:
    From the 'Media' link above select 'Newsletter archive'
    In the archive click on any link
    At the top of that page click on 'past issues'
    which takes you to the page @ Pawain linked above.
    1) A newbie clicks newsletter and see 2020, will close the window. Perhaps a psychic will click on 2020 news and then know there is a secret link in Old News too click to Latest news 2022.

    2) 4 clicks to read a newsletter?
    2 to find 2020 news
    2 more to find 2022 page.

    3) Why is newsletter classified as "Media"?

    Not trying to be rude but a 24 year old online game company should be able to handle better web navigation.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • meltedmantismeltedmantis Posts: 46
    75% of everyone I know on my shard script.  The enforcement is a complete utter joke. if you can't beat'em join'em
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,023
    meltedmantis said:
    75% of everyone I know on my shard script.  The enforcement is a complete utter joke. if you can't beat'em join'em
    You must know a lot of players on LS that I don't know. 


    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2022
    Removed
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,021
    edited June 2022
    What I find absurd, is that, we had changes to the Fey spawn in Destard when it started because, at least to my understanding, with the initial release scripters were taking advantage of it....

    The changes to the spawn, as many layers lamented, eventually led to the unplayability of the Event in the Destard Dungeon for many players and they quit playing there because of the "build up" of Paragons too time consuming or flat out impossible to fight for an insufficient number of players, on some Shards or time of the day....

    And now, with the eggs gathering, aren't perhaps scripters not taking even a larger advantage of this Event, taking eggs away from players who play fair and square, that is, not using any illegal Third Party utility who keep recalling from eggs spawning location to eggs spawning location only to find them void og eggs because these scripters are taking them all in a blink of an eye ?

    Mind you, I think that providing a non-combat way to players to participate to these Treasures of Events is wonderfull, and I praise the Developers for giving this to us, and I honestly want this to stay also for future Events....

    Only, I would want the Developers to Design it in ways that scripters, especially AFK scripters who run their BOTs 24/7, cannot dominate it thus taking it away from players who play by the rules and use their own time at their computer...

    That is at least how I see it.
  • meltedmantismeltedmantis Posts: 46
    edited June 2022
    Pawain said:
    75% of everyone I know on my shard script.  The enforcement is a complete utter joke. if you can't beat'em join'em
    You must know a lot of players on LS that I don't know. 


    You been to the LS discord?  it becomes pretty obvious there when people are trading scripts.....
    I'll be totally frank, the ONLY reason I'm not running bots -->yet<-- is i'm too busy with my job ... which is writing scripts/code Ironically enough.  But I know people that have gotten 10's of thousands of drops in the first few weeks alone thanks to their bot trains.  At this point, with the way "enforcement" is, why wouldn't people.  It seems like the no-bot policy is more like "no bots- wink wink nudge nudge,  don't forget to buy luck potions!"  
  • meltedmantismeltedmantis Posts: 46
    edited June 2022
    popps said:
    What I find absurd, is that, we had changes to the Fey spawn in Destard when it started because, at least to my understanding, with the initial release scripters were taking advantage of it....

    The changes to the spawn, as many layers lamented, eventually led to the unplayability of the Event in the Destard Dungeon for many players and they quit playing there because of the "build up" of Paragons too time consuming or flat out impossible to fight for an insufficient number of players, on some Shards or time of the day....


    Yep, and by the time they "fixed" the spawn the scripts were about done anyway because they already had tens of thousands.  During the first week on my guild discord we had a member start a first to 1k drops contest.  We had a few non guild people in our discord and one of them goes " well I'm already at 20k"  This was the first week.  Then the devs make the spawn changes but those guys are already done with the thing, so who does the changes hurt?  the regular players who play by the rules.

    What's really crappy is that first week before they jacked up the spawn, we were having a ball, it was actually... you know... FUN.  but silly me this is U F'ing O and fun is not allowed, and here we are with the most boring event ever
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2022
    “There is an amnesty on scripting in the game, but there is not an amnesty on discussing the issue in the forums.

    This can make submitting bug reports that are exploited by scripts very difficult.

    When they were playing with the dismount script issue, (they made one big change then rolled it back a little because they nerfed it too much) I posted just part of the new dismount script (that adjusted for the changes) in order to discuss the change that had to be made to the script that made it somewhat fairer and I received an official warning for posting it… how can you discuss changes when you can’t discuss anything?
    If they are allowing scripts, you should be allowed to discuss it.

    i can’t imagine telling a woman or child who was a victim of a crime to not talk about it, part of me feels that is very wrong”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,239Moderator
    Terms of Service (at the bottom of every forum page)
    1. Please Treat ALL Posters with Respect and Courtesy
    9. No Posting In Breach Of Games’ Terms of Service - You must not post, or link to materials that are, in breach of the games’ Terms of Service. This includes, but is not limited to:
    1. Advertisement or promotion of unofficial servers.
    2. Information on exploits of bugs in sufficient detail to allow others to perform said exploit.
    3. Cash sales of in game items.

    Rule 1 includes members of Broadsword staff. Libelous posts will be removed.

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    “Perhaps some comments have been removed.. Mariah what relevance is any of that to what anyone has been discussing?”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 510
    Mariah said:
    Terms of Service (at the bottom of every forum page)
    1. Please Treat ALL Posters with Respect and Courtesy
    9. No Posting In Breach Of Games’ Terms of Service - You must not post, or link to materials that are, in breach of the games’ Terms of Service. This includes, but is not limited to:
    1. Advertisement or promotion of unofficial servers.
    2. Information on exploits of bugs in sufficient detail to allow others to perform said exploit.
    3. Cash sales of in game items.

    Rule 1 includes members of Broadsword staff. Libelous posts will be removed.

    LOL So why doesn't @Mesanna and Co. take action against the people who sell game items for cash? If she doesn't know who they are, she is the ONLY person in the UO community who doesn't! She can contact me and I will be more than happy to give her a list of names, and evidence (including but not limited to PM's, ICQ's, links to their "ads"/websites) YET AGAIN so she can take action against them. Why does the word "hypocrite" come to mind????
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • vortexvortex Posts: 216
    Hate saying it but why not script ... Throw away EJ accounts and little done to stop it... Do what it takes to win I guess...
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,021
    edited June 2022
    vortex said:
    Hate saying it but why not script ... Throw away EJ accounts and little done to stop it... Do what it takes to win I guess...
    And how good of an approach would that be, that of leaving scripters be, if I may ask ?

    The players who find no point in playing a game cheating, would likely abandon that game, and those who were to stay, would mostly be those cheating now finding themselves competing with fellow players also cheating and, consequentially, an escalation in finding better and better cheats would take place with eventually having that game so much plagued by cheats and players cheating, that it would be unrecoverable...

    Personally, I am of the idea that for the better sake of a gaming environment for all players playing it, cheating should be severely dealt with.
  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,239Moderator
    edited June 2022
    Please note, while this forum has a bugs section, it is not the only, or even primary, way for reporting bugs.
    The Contact Form allows players to submit petitions for assistance for account and billing issues as well as to report feedback, GM/EM reviews, or bugs in Ultima Online. The form features a drop-down menu containing the various categories for which players can submit their queries.
    Open the form, click on the section headed 'department', select Bug Report and there you can give all the information you have, including the kind of exploit information that can't be allowed in this publicly viewable forum.


  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2022
    Mariah said:
    Please note, while this forum has a bugs section, it is not the only, or even primary, way for reporting bugs.
    The Contact Form allows players to submit petitions for assistance for account and billing issues as well as to report feedback, GM/EM reviews, or bugs in Ultima Online. The form features a drop-down menu containing the various categories for which players can submit their queries.




    "I don't recommend this method, because you're unable to see what other people have reported if they have reported a similar issue, you also will not receive any response (other than an automatic email to say the report was received), whereas at least here a player may be able to assist you, also you're unable to keep track of the report that either you or someone else has submitted.

    At least here you can see as a public record that a bug/exploit has been reported

    reported 2018, confirmed by Misk 2020, still bugged/exploitable today June 2022.

    if someone had instead used the contact form, there would be no accountability, unless there is a website we can visit to see all the submitted and unactioned reports?
    "

    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
This discussion has been closed.