PvP Updates Discussion Thread

135

Comments

  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 898
    edited August 2023
    Covfefe said:
    CovenantX said:

    I'd like to see Macroes for:

    Dismount Pet / Remount Pet.
    Trap-box.



    Already exists (uoassist)/ Already exists UO

    Already exists UO

       ahh, good. 

       now get rid of the automatic popping of boxes so everyone has to manually time their uses of the box. 

      never knew the dismount/remount thing worked, I thought I tested both of them when they came out.

      I basically only use UOAssist for those two things, with a select few potion macros.
     
      I'll give the in-game ones another try, may have been user error when I last gave it a shot.
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,002
    CovenantX said:
    Covfefe said:
    CovenantX said:

    a filter for the 'New Target System', so that we don't target reds or greys that are in the same guild/alliance.    -one reason people don't play reds much anymore.



    That is another bug that affects only the official 2d client, and not a PvP balancing issue. pretty sure that has been reported multiple times and nothing ever done about it.

       All Pvp-related bugs, become balance issues when you're fighting against people using clients that have fixes or work-arounds that legit players do not have.

    That's why attempting to have this discussion without mentioning third party clients is a waste of time 
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 898
    edited August 2023
    CovenantX said:
    Covfefe said:
    CovenantX said:

    a filter for the 'New Target System', so that we don't target reds or greys that are in the same guild/alliance.    -one reason people don't play reds much anymore.



    That is another bug that affects only the official 2d client, and not a PvP balancing issue. pretty sure that has been reported multiple times and nothing ever done about it.

       All Pvp-related bugs, become balance issues when you're fighting against people using clients that have fixes or work-arounds that legit players do not have.

       Oh, now i remember why I didn't use the dismount/remount.

     it's because it only works if you use the 'New Target System", I still use the old target system (the tiny bar that cycles through target next/previous etc).   However, if they added filters so that we don't attack our guildies/alliance members, I wouldn't have any issues switching.



    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 898
    Grimbeard said:
    CovenantX said:
       All Pvp-related bugs, become balance issues when you're fighting against people using clients that have fixes or work-arounds that legit players do not have.

    That's why attempting to have this discussion without mentioning third party clients is a waste of time 
        Agreed, it's not a great situation, but hopefully there's a way out of it.

    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,002
    CovenantX said:
    Grimbeard said:
    CovenantX said:
       All Pvp-related bugs, become balance issues when you're fighting against people using clients that have fixes or work-arounds that legit players do not have.

    That's why attempting to have this discussion without mentioning third party clients is a waste of time 
        Agreed, it's not a great situation, but hopefully there's a way out of it.

    If in game enforcement was as strong as forum enforcement...
  • Covfefe said:
    CovenantX said:

    a filter for the 'New Target System', so that we don't target reds or greys that are in the same guild/alliance.    -one reason people don't play reds much anymore.



    That is another bug that affects only the official 2d client, and not a PvP balancing issue. pretty sure that has been reported multiple times and nothing ever done about it.


    it's also a bug in EC. You can select to ignore war on party members, yet it still sometimes attacks your red party members. Very annoying and needs to be fixed but it's hard to track what exactly is causing it because it's not happening every time.
  • Once you toggle a special move, keep it active even if you cast a mage spell. Just like injected strike.
  • CovfefeCovfefe Posts: 239
    edited August 2023
    CovenantX said:
       Oh, now i remember why I didn't use the dismount/remount.

     it's because it only works if you use the 'New Target System", I still use the old target system (the tiny bar that cycles through target next/previous etc).   However, if they added filters so that we don't attack our guildies/alliance members, I wouldn't have any issues switching.

    I don't understand sorry, what's the disadvantage of using the new target system? You still cycle through next/previous with new target system. (Please note the macro i showed in UO is to mount nearest follower, you also need block war on mount selected) to dismount you still need to use UOA.
    Covfefe said:
    That is another bug that affects only the official 2d client, and not a PvP balancing issue. pretty sure that has been reported multiple times and nothing ever done about it.
    it's also a bug in EC. You can select to ignore war on party members, yet it still sometimes attacks your red party members. Very annoying and needs to be fixed but it's hard to track what exactly is causing it because it's not happening every time.

    This should be fixed in EC, you don't need to party all your gray/red guild members. You filter the mobiles, then you use Smart Nearest Target, attack current target.


    but the official 2d client apparently doesn't even have a mobiles bar? let alone filters. 
    I find this hard to believe, why is the client people are paying for worse than the free one?
    Ec.png 621.4K
  • CovfefeCovfefe Posts: 239
    edited August 2023
    Cookie said:

    • Of course - we need a Nerve Strike Debuff Icon - currently one of the most powerful special abilities out there, and we have no way of knowing we have been hit by it.
    This also just sounds like a bug to me. If you're under the effects of a debuff and it fails to display in your buffs/debuffs bar. Have you tried calling a GM to fix the issue?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    edited August 2023
    Covfefe said:
    Cookie said:

    • Of course - we need a Nerve Strike Debuff Icon - currently one of the most powerful special abilities out there, and we have no way of knowing we have been hit by it.
    This also just sounds like a bug to me. If you're under the effects of a debuff and it fails to display in your buffs/debuffs bar. Have you tried calling a GM to fix the issue?

    I have mentioned it before.

    If you are who I think you are, I am aware it has been raised many times by you, so it is a known issue, and a pvp one.

    I think there are some people in this thread, pushing their own agenda a little here, I don't mind you commenting, never have - and it's usually for a good point, but you seem to have sour grapes which I understand, and a couple of posters here, would never normally be here still having input because they cannot resist themselves, yet they would be the first to mention it if it were the other way around.

    There are a huge amount of posters in this thread, genuinely here to give it a good shot. Please let them have the floor. {That is not to take away from your more helpful posts pointing out errors in certain posts}.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,002
    If merv/yoshi would just properly identify themselves it would make things easier 
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 898
    Covfefe said:
    CovenantX said:
       Oh, now i remember why I didn't use the dismount/remount.

     it's because it only works if you use the 'New Target System", I still use the old target system (the tiny bar that cycles through target next/previous etc).   However, if they added filters so that we don't attack our guildies/alliance members, I wouldn't have any issues switching.
    I don't understand sorry, what's the disadvantage of using the new target system? You still cycle through next/previous with new target system. (Please note the macro i showed in UO is to mount nearest follower, you also need block war on mount selected) to dismount you still need to use UOA.
     There is no disadvantage that I'm aware of.

     I do currently use UOA for both dismount & remount macros,  -they're literally the first macroes I set whenever I make a new character for the last 20+ years.   

    -I would also like the ability to remount while casting spells again.  I'm not sure exactly when that changed, but I did post about it before.
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,249
     :D 
  • CovfefeCovfefe Posts: 239
    Lynk said:

    2.) Make Tele rings paralyze the user while waiting for cursor to appear, similar to how magic wands function.  

    People still asking for another nerf to items with very limited charges that stopped spawning 20 years ago :D
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    edited September 2023
    This is how I think Focussed Mages should look like in the current climate.
    This does not Nerf anything.
    It does promote Pure Mages, who need a lot of help right now.



    Having Parry Mastery, could also lose Focussed Mage ability, to mitigate Shield Bash if people think that would be OP.

    Other suggestions of mine - have included an Offensive spellbook, which may help make Wrestle Mastery a little more viable - especially combined with fixing the Focussed Mage as above.

    There you go @Kyronix - 2 possible fixes for pure mages to help them compete.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    So the quick fix is;
    Take Parry off the Focussed skills banned list.

    Add Bushido, and all Weapon skills to the list of banned skills for a Focussed Mage.

    With a bit of thought to Parry Mastery that maybe OP, so add just the Mastery to the List of Banned.
  • Cookie said:
    This is how I think Focussed Mages should look like in the current climate.
    This does not Nerf anything.
    It does promote Pure Mages, who need a lot of help right now.



    Having Parry Mastery, could also lose Focussed Mage ability, to mitigate Shield Bash if people think that would be OP.

    Other suggestions of mine - have included an Offensive spellbook, which may help make Wrestle Mastery a little more viable - especially combined with fixing the Focussed Mage as above.

    There you go @ Kyronix - 2 possible fixes for pure mages to help them compete.
        you should probably make this 'spread sheet' with all the skills of a template, and not just 2-4 of the 6-8 skills everyone would have in a single temp-.

      I would be in favor of Parry being taken off the list counting against focus spec, but not without at least a 30-50% block chance reduction with Magery, 
    Or 
    'blocked attacks' should trigger spell interruptions, as if you were hit (but you'd take 0 damage), if the blocker is actively casting a spell.  -should also trigger spell interruptions from *Evades*

    -The problem isn't the parry-mages inherent offense (even if they had 30-40 SDI (pre focus spec nerf), it's the additional offense they gain by not being hit by weapon-based attacks,   this is why dexers only pvp in groups anymore, because they can't interrupt any parry-mage enough to stop the mage from killing them.

     so the dexer has to run away over and over and over until the ~32.5%x4-5 RNG allows them to land 4-5 hits in a row without the parry-mage healing at all.  it's boring as hell.   so everyone plays a tank-mage because they have the best of both worlds on the offensive side, and better defense than any non-parry template.  it's just stupid and it was pointed out when those changes were being tested on TC before it went live many years ago... How it's taken this long for something to happen to Parry is ridiculous.
    Cookie said:
    So the quick fix is;
    Take Parry off the Focussed skills banned list.

    Add Bushido, and all Weapon skills to the list of banned skills for a Focussed Mage.

    With a bit of thought to Parry Mastery that maybe OP, so add just the Mastery to the List of Banned.
       I don't agree with weapon skills counting against focus spec and Bushido already does count against it.    The reason is because that would ensure bok-mages would be the only mages with a weapon skill (which are already the meta btw, so they don't need more reasons to be a bok-mage) and no 'reasonable' change is going to make pure/focused-mages (whatever you want to call them) viable against them without Parry/Evade being nerfed.

    It would make more sense to just require Magery Mastery to be active in order to be a focus spec mage.   if masteries become part of it anyway.



    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    edited September 2023
    CovenantX said:
    Cookie said:
    This is how I think Focussed Mages should look like in the current climate.
    This does not Nerf anything.
    It does promote Pure Mages, who need a lot of help right now.



    Having Parry Mastery, could also lose Focussed Mage ability, to mitigate Shield Bash if people think that would be OP.

    Other suggestions of mine - have included an Offensive spellbook, which may help make Wrestle Mastery a little more viable - especially combined with fixing the Focussed Mage as above.

    There you go @ Kyronix - 2 possible fixes for pure mages to help them compete.
        you should probably make this 'spread sheet' with all the skills of a template, and not just 2-4 of the 6-8 skills everyone would have in a single temp-.

      I would be in favor of Parry being taken off the list counting against focus spec, but not without at least a 30-50% block chance reduction with Magery, 
    Or 
    'blocked attacks' should trigger spell interruptions, as if you were hit (but you'd take 0 damage), if the blocker is actively casting a spell.  -should also trigger spell interruptions from *Evades*

    -The problem isn't the parry-mages inherent offense (even if they had 30-40 SDI (pre focus spec nerf), it's the additional offense they gain by not being hit by weapon-based attacks,   this is why dexers only pvp in groups anymore, because they can't interrupt any parry-mage enough to stop the mage from killing them.

     so the dexer has to run away over and over and over until the ~32.5%x4-5 RNG allows them to land 4-5 hits in a row without the parry-mage healing at all.  it's boring as hell.   so everyone plays a tank-mage because they have the best of both worlds on the offensive side, and better defense than any non-parry template.  it's just stupid and it was pointed out when those changes were being tested on TC before it went live many years ago... How it's taken this long for something to happen to Parry is ridiculous.
    Cookie said:
    So the quick fix is;
    Take Parry off the Focussed skills banned list.

    Add Bushido, and all Weapon skills to the list of banned skills for a Focussed Mage.

    With a bit of thought to Parry Mastery that maybe OP, so add just the Mastery to the List of Banned.
       I don't agree with weapon skills counting against focus spec and Bushido already does count against it.    The reason is because that would ensure bok-mages would be the only mages with a weapon skill (which are already the meta btw, so they don't need more reasons to be a bok-mage) and no 'reasonable' change is going to make pure/focused-mages (whatever you want to call them) viable against them without Parry/Evade being nerfed.

    It would make more sense to just require Magery Mastery to be active in order to be a focus spec mage.   if masteries become part of it anyway.




    I'm not sure I was aware Bushido was part of the magical lines. It should be, but I did not realise. (or I have forgotten).

    Dexxers usually have Bushido these days - this means they are evading way over 50% of heavy vital mage dumps - this is your spell damage evade that is equivalent to your weapon misses.

    Weapon Skills have to be removed from Focussed mages. The weapon specials, and unlimited damage requiring no mana or stamina, mean a mage can damage forever with these, unlike when their mana runs out. The trade-off is, mages can do high damage, that hits a lot (except when evaded, resisted, disturbed, stunned, out of range, out of line of sight - which is most of the time), but they run out of mana - weapons allow unlimited hits, which breaks the trade-off. There is just nothing focussed mage, about someone carrying weapons, from a logical point of view. Weapons give mages too much. Magery gives warriors too much.

    In the way you see parry as being the issue - I see weapon skills, not parry, as being the issue. Parry is purely defensive. Weapon Skills - are an entire extra line of attack, designed for warriors.

    Yes, I thought about doing the entire spreadsheet, but that would have been a lot of work, I tried to summarise.

    And you made a good point in the Naming, I had thought about it - the difference between a Pure Mage, and a Focussed Mage. Pure Mage - may almost be only the top one - Scribe - and may in fact have no Parry - and would rely on Wrestle.

    The rest below, would be Focussed.


  • Cookie said:

    Dexxers usually have Bushido these days - this means they are evading way over 50% of heavy vital mage dumps - this is your spell damage evade that is equivalent to your weapon misses.

       your argument fell apart here.    There are more mages with Evasion than there are Dexers.
     

    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    edited September 2023
    CovenantX said:
    Cookie said:

    Dexxers usually have Bushido these days - this means they are evading way over 50% of heavy vital mage dumps - this is your spell damage evade that is equivalent to your weapon misses.

       your argument fell apart here.    There are more mages with Evasion than there are Dexers.
     


    Not where I'm from :)

    Remembering of course - Bok/Swords mages, are dexxers as well. Anything with a weapon imo. Bushido Archers etc. Sampires ofc.

    But either way - Bushido is recognised as an issue, combined with Magery, doesn't matter what we both call it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    edited September 2023
    Which reminds me.

    Warrior weapon swings - should use Stamina.

    This can be replenished partly via the existing Greater Stamina Potions via VvV reward.
    As well as Chivalry Divine Fury, Greater Refresh potions etc.

    In the same way Mages, have to use Mana Draught, or Magery Mastery to replenish Mana - or use up an entire skill - Meditation.

    There should in fact be - an easier way for Mages to gather Mana Refresh potions - when you compare the ease with which a warrior can obtain their vital potions.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 898
    edited September 2023
    Cookie said:

    Not where I'm from :)

    Remembering of course - Bok/Swords mages, are dexxers as well. Anything with a weapon imo. Bushido Archers etc. Sampires ofc.

    But either way - Bushido is recognised as an issue, combined with Magery, doesn't matter what we both call it.
    Ah yes,  You count anything with a weapon skill as a dexer, despite the majority of their offense being spells... from Magery.   I did forget that briefly about you.    you're the only one that I've ever run into that has that opinion.  but anyway...

    Why are there more evade/bok/Mages, than there are evade/bok Non-mages?   It's not even close.

    Bushido doesn't have any inherent offense or defense (well perhaps confidence can be viewed as 'defense', I'd call it healing/recovery)  without Parry AND a weapon skill, without Parry evasion isn't useful at all. nor is counter-attack.  confidence benefits from Parry as well, but generally you're not going to 'parry anyone if you're low enough to use confidence cause you're going to be running away anyway.

    and as I said in my previous post, the change you seem to be advocating for (since the sheet isn't complete) would be an ever so slight buff to Parry-Mage with inscribe (weapon skill, wrestling, anatomy aren't visible there) being 35% SDI, is literally only 5% SDI more than they have now.   That won't be enough to change anything.   it might affect a character of yours, but no one is going to change to that from a bok-mage. you'd lose too much offense AND defense for 5% SDI, that's like 1-3 (and about 2-6 with Curse) points of damage depending on the circle spell you cast.
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • Cookie said:
    Which reminds me.

    Warrior weapon swings - should use Stamina.

    This can be replenished partly via the existing Greater Stamina Potions via VvV reward.
    As well as Chivalry Divine Fury, Greater Refresh potions etc.

    In the same way Mages, have to use Mana Draught, or Magery Mastery to replenish Mana - or use up an entire skill - Meditation.

    There should in fact be - an easier way for Mages to gather Mana Refresh potions - when you compare the ease with which a warrior can obtain their vital potions.
       That sounds fair,.  -weapon swings = stamina loss...  It'll make stam-leech much more useful in pvp     -maybe weapon specials should consume stamina & mana when used.

     However, that'll nerf dexers (non-mages) that are already at a disadvantage (Due to Parry being part of every template), as well as tank-mages.


    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • Cookie said:
    There should in fact be - an easier way for Mages to gather Mana Refresh potions - when you compare the ease with which a warrior can obtain their vital potions.
       ooh, not sure about that one, a potion that requires X amount of 'magery' to consume?  that would help any mage with a weapon skill too....

     Besides, if you really wanted a way to restore mana... Magery Mastery has that.

     I get it, shield-bash is better, so you'd rather have that, right? -I don't blame you.

    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    edited September 2023
    CovenantX said:
    Cookie said:
    There should in fact be - an easier way for Mages to gather Mana Refresh potions - when you compare the ease with which a warrior can obtain their vital potions.
       ooh, not sure about that one, a potion that requires X amount of 'magery' to consume?  that would help any mage with a weapon skill too....

     Besides, if you really wanted a way to restore mana... Magery Mastery has that.

     I get it, shield-bash is better, so you'd rather have that, right? -I don't blame you.


    I don't use shield bash, the magery mana regen mastery is once every 30 minutes, not that helpful. It could do with coming down to 10-15 minutes to be more viable.

    I've already suggested Parry Mastery can be nerfed, by taking it off the Focussed Mage list - NOT the Parry Skill itself, only the Parry Mastery. Re-thinking this - I am not sure about this - Warriors have any number of stuns, Mages should be allowed equivalent - considering how much Parry costs them.

    I suggest Mages should use Magery Mastery - we do use it - for the passive increased summon strength, and the Regen is almost pointless due to the cooldown. I do in fact use Magery Mastery on my mystic - it is almost pointless for me. I use SW mastery on SW Mage. Wrestle Mastery should be an option for pvp pure mages - with an improved Nerve Strike style stun.

    I have also suggested Wrestle Mastery gets a buff, to be a viable option for Mages, to be able to drop Parry.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    CovenantX said:
    Cookie said:
    Which reminds me.

    Warrior weapon swings - should use Stamina.

    This can be replenished partly via the existing Greater Stamina Potions via VvV reward.
    As well as Chivalry Divine Fury, Greater Refresh potions etc.

    In the same way Mages, have to use Mana Draught, or Magery Mastery to replenish Mana - or use up an entire skill - Meditation.

    There should in fact be - an easier way for Mages to gather Mana Refresh potions - when you compare the ease with which a warrior can obtain their vital potions.
       That sounds fair,.  -weapon swings = stamina loss...  It'll make stam-leech much more useful in pvp     -maybe weapon specials should consume stamina & mana when used.

     However, that'll nerf dexers (non-mages) that are already at a disadvantage (Due to Parry being part of every template), as well as tank-mages.


    To add to this.

    If it nerfs Warriors too hard - look at those implications.

    Back to add a bit more.

    Warriors have Battle Focus, Mages lose a lot when they decide to drop Med, warriors lose barely anything dropping Focus.

    Warriors need to have more focus on their Stamina, and Stamina regens, which would subtract from their ability to go so deep into the Mage Trees.


  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    edited September 2023
    CovenantX said:



    and as I said in my previous post, the change you seem to be advocating for (since the sheet isn't complete) would be an ever so slight buff to Parry-Mage with inscribe (weapon skill, wrestling, anatomy aren't visible there) being 35% SDI, is literally only 5% SDI more than they have now.   That won't be enough to change anything.   it might affect a character of yours, but no one is going to change to that from a bok-mage. you'd lose too much offense AND defense for 5% SDI, that's like 1-3 (and about 2-6 with Curse) points of damage depending on the circle spell you cast.

    You say it would barely be enough to change anything...

    Yet they saw fit to make this nerf, and wipe out all Pure Mages from pvp?

    I'm now clarifying btw - Pure Mage would not have Parry, and would have Scribe/Wrestle. That would be the only 35% SDI option. I would hope a Wrestle Buff would also come in somewhere. Either raise the Wrestle DCI value, or add in the Wrestle complimenting Spellbook I suggested as a reward.

    Focussed Mages would be the Tree below, the main change for them, they would be able to have Parry, and not Weap Skills.

    You say Parry has Shield Bash - Parry also loses Mages a massive percentage (42%){84/200} of their entire mana pool and casting ability, they can barely manage a shield bash. It also loses them SDI. Due to not being able to reach 150 INT, they can lose more SDI.

    Mages currently usually have 20% SDI in pvp now? This would allow up to 35% - which is 15% increase.

  • Cookie said:

    You say it would barely be enough to change anything...

    Yet they saw fit to make this nerf, and wipe out all Pure Mages from pvp?

    I'm now clarifying btw - Pure Mage would not have Parry, and would have Scribe/Wrestle. That would be the only 35% SDI option. I would hope a Wrestle Buff would also come in somewhere. Either raise the Wrestle DCI value, or add in the Wrestle complimenting Spellbook I suggested as a reward.

    Focussed Mages would be the Tree below, the main change for them, they would be able to have Parry, and not Weap Skills.

    You say Parry has Shield Bash - Parry also loses Mages a massive percentage (42%){84/200} of their entire mana pool and casting ability, they can barely manage a shield bash. It also loses them SDI. Due to not being able to reach 150 INT, they can lose more SDI.

    Mages currently usually have 20% SDI in pvp now? This would allow up to 35% - which is 15% increase.

     They nerfed pure-mages (Focus spec mages) by changing focus spec down from 30 to 25% SDI, while bumping non-focus spec up from 15 to 20% SDI, in addition, Tactics req- for specials was reduced (keep in mind, at the time the meta, was Wrestle/Parry on every mage because nothing else had the SDI to kill anything) and Global loot brought us to where we are now.
    & Parry added to break focus spec, when the extra defense going to mages that didnt need it because their offense was already better than everything else was the real issue with parry being available at full potential on mages the whole time. (as was also pointed out during testing, in several different eras of UO)

     Dex Requirement- (I actually would like to see this as well as the Parry penalty if you use a shield & have bushido, removed completely), Only with a nerf to parry of course.

    -you could literally reforge/+imbue a full set of armor with with 1-2 artifact pieces (likely cuffs/halo) looted jewelry and have 80 dex (including agility pots) while having the absolute minimum 'real' dexterity, in order to gain the full benefit of parry without giving up any mana or HP, the sacrifice is even less if you use full legendary suits (which everyone is) and somehow that doesn't factor in...    -200 mana is more than most of my pvp mages, I generally run around 160-180 (non-elf), I really only run into mana issues when I'm at a choke-point fight, like a 2+ guild spawn or a harrower where 'fielding' is necessary..  and so I shouldn't be taking a character without at least a mana regen skill (focus) cause /fk med.


    I stand by my claim that the SDI change for a 'pure'mage' isn't enough.  I mean, after you clarified that the 'pure mage' wouldn't have Parry, it makes what I said even truer.. you can make that now with 35% SDI.     -without the minor 'undisarmable spellbooks', unless there are other changes you're applying suggested here or elsewhere on top of it.

    20-30% SDI is non-focus spec, With inscribe  -I actually have a few of these, but that's me.
    25-35% is Focus spec With Inscribe, it's a 5% increase. it wouldn't be worth it, to anyone.

    but, even if it were the jump from 20% (which most bok-mage currently have) to 35% (+15%) there would be no change because it's already a possibility on the exact 'pure-mage' you mention and no one is using it.  giving up evasion,  nerve (damage & para) as well as confidence. that's a lot to give up for around 3-9 damage (it's usually ~1-3 dmg points for every 5% SDI depending on circle spell)
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    edited September 2023
    CovenantX said:

     They nerfed pure-mages (Focus spec mages) by changing focus spec down from 30 to 25% SDI, while bumping non-focus spec up from 15 to 20% SDI, in addition, Tactics req- for specials was reduced (keep in mind, at the time the meta, was Wrestle/Parry on every mage because nothing else had the SDI to kill anything) and Global loot brought us to where we are now.
    & Parry added to break focus spec, when the extra defense going to mages that didnt need it because their offense was already better than everything else was the real issue with parry being available at full potential on mages the whole time. (as was also pointed out during testing, in several different eras of UO)

     Dex Requirement- (I actually would like to see this as well as the Parry penalty if you use a shield & have bushido, removed completely), Only with a nerf to parry of course.

    -you could literally reforge/+imbue a full set of armor with with 1-2 artifact pieces (likely cuffs/halo) looted jewelry and have 80 dex (including agility pots) while having the absolute minimum 'real' dexterity, in order to gain the full benefit of parry without giving up any mana or HP, the sacrifice is even less if you use full legendary suits (which everyone is) and somehow that doesn't factor in...    -200 mana is more than most of my pvp mages, I generally run around 160-180 (non-elf), I really only run into mana issues when I'm at a choke-point fight, like a 2+ guild spawn or a harrower where 'fielding' is necessary..  and so I shouldn't be taking a character without at least a mana regen skill (focus) cause /fk med.


    I stand by my claim that the SDI change for a 'pure'mage' isn't enough.  I mean, after you clarified that the 'pure mage' wouldn't have Parry, it makes what I said even truer.. you can make that now with 35% SDI.     -without the minor 'undisarmable spellbooks', unless there are other changes you're applying suggested here or elsewhere on top of it.

    20-30% SDI is non-focus spec, With inscribe  -I actually have a few of these, but that's me.
    25-35% is Focus spec With Inscribe, it's a 5% increase. it wouldn't be worth it, to anyone.

    but, even if it were the jump from 20% (which most bok-mage currently have) to 35% (+15%) there would be no change because it's already a possibility on the exact 'pure-mage' you mention and no one is using it.  giving up evasion,  nerve (damage & para) as well as confidence. that's a lot to give up for around 3-9 damage (it's usually ~1-3 dmg points for every 5% SDI depending on circle spell)

    Responding to your bit specifically in Bold.
    You say, this in itself would not be enough of a fix.

    I also made a suggestion for an Offensive Mage Spellbook reward, that would compliment and enhance the Wrestle ability. Again - Atomic Betty said something along the lines of - this will not fix Pure Mages, nothing can fix Pure Mages, because there are always templates that can fit more in.

    I get your points.
    • However - my above solution re Pure and Focussed Mage skill-list - AND this Spellbook reward - leading to an incremental improvement in Wrestling and the Wrestling Mastery - are meant to be taken together - tell me what you think, I think it is awesome :)
    • The 2 together, would have me playing on a Pure Mage I believe.
    • This is novel - because an Offensive Spell book does not exist.
    • It also allows stacking with Alchemical Bracers.
    • It can be disarmed - the same way as Warriors can be Disarmed - which is completely fair - and fine - Disarming this, would negate a chunk of the Mages offence, without critically taking out their defence - this is fine, and fair, Warriors go through the same when Disarmed.
    • With this approach - I do not need to go with the Suggestion of making the Main-Hand Spellbook non-Disarmable, with this suggestion it is perfectly fair for the Spellbook to be Disarmed.
    • Mage Spellbooks that exist in todays game have all of a Mages basic fundamental properties on, causing the mage to be severely restricted if Disarmed. I understand with current Spellbooks, players asking for them to be non-disarmable, but I consider this too much of a game-changing mechanic, and have instead tried to think around this.
    • I also noted, and supported a Crafting Mechanic, and improvements to Imbuing or Scribe, that allow for Spellbooks to be customised to greater depth, and Imbuing to have more options re Properties - ie the Missing ones. And maybe more points available.

    Developing the concept of my PvP Spellbook.

    Reward;
    Spellbook;
    HCI 15%
    Hit Lightning 50%.
    Splinter 30%.
    Hit Lower Defence 50%.

    Title; Alea's glass spellbook of splintering.
    Or; Wraith's spellbook of Soul Destruction 

    Design - a very cool glass-like translucent style spellbook - put your best artist on it 

    Reward point drops. Make it seriously expensive and elite - 1,000 points is fine.
  • Nerfing, adding items and unbalancing things isn’t worth it in my opinion. The net effect on participation is likely to be in the wrong direction. Just add some content to fight over make ‘fel’ points with different rewards in your treasure of events, make vvv more meaningful, add leaderboards etc 
This discussion has been closed.