PvP Updates Discussion Thread

CovenantX

Cookie said:

I also made a suggestion for an Offensive Mage Spellbook reward, that would compliment and enhance the Wrestle ability. Again - Atomic Betty said something along the lines of - this will not fix Pure Mages, nothing can fix Pure Mages, because there are always templates that can fit more in.

I get your points.

• However - my above solution re Pure and Focussed Mage skill-list - AND this Spellbook reward - leading to an incremental improvement in Wrestling and the Wrestling Mastery - are meant to be taken together - tell me what you think, I think it is awesome

• The 2 together, would have me playing on a Pure Mage I believe.

• This is novel - because an Offensive Spell book does not exist.

• It also allows stacking with Alchemical Bracers.

• It can be disarmed - the same way as Warriors can be Disarmed - which is completely fair - and fine - Disarming this, would negate a chunk of the Mages offence, without critically taking out their defence - this is fine, and fair, Warriors go through the same when Disarmed.

• With this approach - I do not need to go with the Suggestion of making the Main-Hand Spellbook non-Disarmable, with this suggestion it is perfectly fair for the Spellbook to be Disarmed.

• Mage Spellbooks that exist in todays game have all of a Mages basic fundamental properties on, causing the mage to be severely restricted if Disarmed. I understand with current Spellbooks, players asking for them to be non-disarmable, but I consider this too much of a game-changing mechanic, and have instead tried to think around this.
• I also noted, and supported a Crafting Mechanic, and improvements to Imbuing or Scribe, that allow for Spellbooks to be customised to greater depth, and Imbuing to have more options re Properties - ie the Missing ones. And maybe more points available.

Developing the concept of my PvP Spellbook.

Reward;
Spellbook;
HCI 15%
Hit Lightning 50%.
Splinter 30%.
Hit Lower Defence 50%.

Title; Alea's glass spellbook of splintering.
Or; Wraith's spellbook of Soul Destruction 

Design - a very cool glass-like translucent style spellbook - put your best artist on it 

Reward point drops. Make it seriously expensive and elite - 1,000 points is fine.

   I'm not saying it's a bad idea, it's surely an improvement (though i don't agree with changing DCI scaling or caps, specifically for wrestling), I'm just saying there won't be many people that would stick with it if that's all they get.

  I like the spellbook, though I feel like 20% Splintering would be better, I'd also prefer for splintering weapon to only have the 'forced walk' affect, without the bleed ticks though, as I posted earlier in this thread.  -Splintering Weapon has become the most important property a weapon can get.  It also causes 'Bleed' to be completely useless. that shouldn't be the case.

-It would also be important, if the spellbook you're asking for comes into play, that the hit lightening effect from that book does not stack with the Alchemical Bracers of Devastation, for up to 2 procs of lightening in a single hit.   That would be essentially a Nerve Strike' worth of damage.

 I feel like spellbooks, whether they have offensive properties or not, should not be disarm-able.

 

  Hehe, I'm not sure about the whole 1000 points part either, maybe if they drop as easily & often as the vorpal bunny event...

 

Covfefe

CovenantX said:

 I'd also prefer for splintering weapon to only have the 'forced walk' affect, without the bleed ticks though, as I posted earlier in this thread.  -Splintering Weapon has become the most important property a weapon can get.  It also causes 'Bleed' to be completely useless.

is that true though?

wiki states this under splintering:

Stacks with the regular bleed effect to cause additional damage and extend the duration of the special attack

source https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/magic-item-properties/

CovenantX

Covfefe said:

CovenantX said:

 I'd also prefer for splintering weapon to only have the 'forced walk' affect, without the bleed ticks though, as I posted earlier in this thread.  -Splintering Weapon has become the most important property a weapon can get.  It also causes 'Bleed' to be completely useless.

is that true though?

wiki states this under splintering:

Stacks with the regular bleed effect to cause additional damage and extend the duration of the special attack

source https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/magic-item-properties/

  Correct, the Bleed special & splintering does stack but the difference isn't enough to matter, at least it's supposed to, but it's also not worth the mana cost, when you're better served using Armor Ignore, Crushing Blow or Nerve (obv depending on weapon used) for the damage anyway.

.  

 Bleed (now splintering for the walk + bleed for free) has always been used for spell/bandage interruptions anyway, and nowadays it's somewhat difficult to have lower than like 14-16 HPR which almost negates the bleed effects by itself in terms of damage anyway

  I never see people use bleed special anymore, and why would they?  more reliability, since you choose when it procs?   not worth.

Covfefe

people have never used bleed for damage. It's for disturb, the top players still use it. Plus there is another property blood drinker that utilizes it. Nothing wrong with bleed at all. 

I don't think they need to change anything with pvp templates, there are currently a lot of varied templates and that aspect works really well, amazingly well actually if you consider how difficult it is to balance things.

just fix some bugs.

The most complained about ones are:

shuriken spamming bug

the bug where blues can go orange, die, lose their orange status and reflag on people after they have been killed without turning orange again.

Grimbeard

Covfefe said:

people have never used bleed for damage. It's for disturb, the top players still use it. Plus there is another property blood drinker that utilizes it. Nothing wrong with bleed at all. 

I don't think they need to change anything with pvp templates, there are currently a lot of varied templates and that aspect works really well, amazingly well actually if you consider how difficult it is to balance things.

just fix some bugs.

The most complained about ones are:

shuriken spamming bug

the bug where blues can go orange, die, lose their orange status and reflag on people after they have been killed without turning orange again.

Shuriken is a "client" issue not a bug 

Covfefe

how is it a client issue? you can do it without any third party program at all, you don't even need UOAssist. There is supposed to be a cool-down between throwing shurikens, but you can just use multiple belts and cool-down doesn't get shared between the multiple belts lol

(so long as you throw the second and third shuriken before the first one lands - takes a second or so for the first shuriken to land)

CovenantX

Covfefe said:

people have never used bleed for damage. It's for disturb, the top players still use it. Plus there is another property blood drinker that utilizes it. Nothing wrong with bleed at all. 

I don't think they need to change anything with pvp templates, there are currently a lot of varied templates and that aspect works really well, amazingly well actually if you consider how difficult it is to balance things.

just fix some bugs.

The most complained about ones are:

shuriken spamming bug

the bug where blues can go orange, die, lose their orange status and reflag on people after they have been killed without turning orange again.

   Blood Drinker, is also affected by the bleed portion from splintering weapon, but you need a weapon with both properties..   -Nah, nothing is wrong with bleed, I never said there was, the issue is that splintering weapon causes bleed to be useless. 

  Yea everyone carries the same 2-3 weapons, Bok (by far the most prevalent), no-dachi, and a hatchet or a one-handed disarm weapon.   that's balanced when you ignore the rest of the game..

  I agree bugs need fixed, they should be a higher priority than they appear to be, if they were, there wouldn't be such a long list of bugs needing to be fixed... that includes more than 'pvp only' issues though.

  you know what's funny about the shuriken/dart spamming? It's been possible to do for like 15 years or so, people have been running out of options to fight this broken Parry on every single pvp template, and now it's an issue...   of course it should be fixed as well, I just find it interesting that suddenly people are annoyed by it enough to complain about it..

Come to think of it, I didn't see many people whining about stars/darts when the handful of people who were known to heavily script in pvp used it, before everyone started using illegal clients, now that the majority of people in UO are doing it, it's suddenly an issue?          -  

There should be a global cooldown on every consumable item, Especially if there continues to be absolutely no action taken to prevent illegal clients/programs in pvp which is literally the only aspect of the game where you are required to directly interact with each other.

CovenantX

1) Kill third-party clients    -The importance cannot be stressed enough.

2) Nerf Parry+Magery  -block chances should be cut, similar to how FC with Magery & Chivalry is cut for Chivalry spells.  -or just break parry completely, so it's unused by everyone, ANYTHING is better than keeping it the way it is.

3) Glenda + Shield Bash, should no longer stack.  -probably the only 'dexer' template that does reasonable damage with the difficulty of landing successive hits with Parry being where it's at.

4) Remove 'spamming' DP stars/darts, when cycling multiple belts

5) Holding spells while using consumable items, without cancelling spells  -This causes spell-casters with 'healing spells' to be as close to unkill-able you can get without actually having god-mode.

 That'll balance pvp better than it has been in a long time, at bare minimum since Stygian Abyss. (imbuing era), which was arguably one of the best times to pvp.

Mariah

I have removed some posts that were pulling this thread off topic and edited one

Covfefe

Where does it actually say on the uo.com website that we’re allowed to use UOAssist? 

How are people supposed to know what third party tools you’re apparently allowed to use and not allowed to use?

Someone told me you’re allowed to use O**** so how can we believe you’re allowed to use UOA but not that?

i couldn’t see anything on uo.com about UOA. So would they ban that too?

Covfefe

Given that all the references to balance issues concerning the EC movement speed have been removed by forum moderator, I’m willing to bet the forum moderator plays EC.

They may as well tell us to discuss without using vowels.

Skittlez1337

bulldoglegion said:

I will add my thoughts. I think they are a very different take to what's been posted so far. 

The first thing is PvP is generated by end game players wanting to fight each other. Expect them to go for good gear that gives marginal gains over what you need to PvM. 

At the moment there is very little objective based content to fight over - champ spawns, harrowers, and towns are the only examples. 

The player base for PvP is spread out amongst the shards with most PvPers being on multiple shards and in several guilds simply to get a limited number of fights. 

There are some templates which are better in 1v1 situations but in larger fights positioning and teamwork via the use of voice coms and map programs become much more important than templates and the use of certain spells and items so if the intent is to make large scale PvP fun then I would stay away from changing any of this. 

To improve PvP I would suggest player funnelling i.e. linking a series of automated daily / weekly / weekend events and a monthly EM event that add points to a leader board. I would have the equivalent of a power hour linked by an offset of the shards maintenance time so that the PvP on that shard goes 'hot' at a certain time and where shards are in the same time zone I would alternate this time. 

So you would for example have a leader board for players and their guilds which could simply be the VvV board repurposed. The rankings could come from controlling a town in the VvV system, completing a particular champ at a particular time, killing opponents on an elo system (kill/assist as in VvV), reintroduce some of the elements of the faction system for example traps in town, give points to guilds holding towns and make VvV facet wide so people can fight across the map and not sit at Luna bank.  

I already suggested we should have PvP em events at least on ATL and busiest Asian shard. Mesanna didn’t think it was a good idea. We as pvpers need content to fight over, yew gate PvP gets rather boring after a while. I don’t understand why we can’t have 2 events a month to PvP over. It seems super reasonable accommodation, considering we don’t even get the global event in fel anymore. @Kyronix why can’t we get a PvP EM on ATL?

Grimbeard

Skittlez1337 said:

bulldoglegion said:

I will add my thoughts. I think they are a very different take to what's been posted so far. 

The first thing is PvP is generated by end game players wanting to fight each other. Expect them to go for good gear that gives marginal gains over what you need to PvM. 

At the moment there is very little objective based content to fight over - champ spawns, harrowers, and towns are the only examples. 

The player base for PvP is spread out amongst the shards with most PvPers being on multiple shards and in several guilds simply to get a limited number of fights. 

There are some templates which are better in 1v1 situations but in larger fights positioning and teamwork via the use of voice coms and map programs become much more important than templates and the use of certain spells and items so if the intent is to make large scale PvP fun then I would stay away from changing any of this. 

To improve PvP I would suggest player funnelling i.e. linking a series of automated daily / weekly / weekend events and a monthly EM event that add points to a leader board. I would have the equivalent of a power hour linked by an offset of the shards maintenance time so that the PvP on that shard goes 'hot' at a certain time and where shards are in the same time zone I would alternate this time. 

So you would for example have a leader board for players and their guilds which could simply be the VvV board repurposed. The rankings could come from controlling a town in the VvV system, completing a particular champ at a particular time, killing opponents on an elo system (kill/assist as in VvV), reintroduce some of the elements of the faction system for example traps in town, give points to guilds holding towns and make VvV facet wide so people can fight across the map and not sit at Luna bank.  

I already suggested we should have PvP em events at least on ATL and busiest Asian shard. Mesanna didn’t think it was a good idea. We as pvpers need content to fight over, yew gate PvP gets rather boring after a while. I don’t understand why we can’t have 2 events a month to PvP over. It seems super reasonable accommodation, considering we don’t even get the global event in fel anymore. @ Kyronix why can’t we get a PvP EM on ATL?

I'm the pvp em for Atlantic for our first event all pvpers will show up tonight 7 est at destard. naked the guild that kills champ wins 

Lord_Frodo

Skittlez1337 said:

I already suggested we should have PvP em events at least on ATL and busiest Asian shard. Mesanna didn’t think it was a good idea. We as pvpers need content to fight over, yew gate PvP gets rather boring after a while. I don’t understand why we can’t have 2 events a month to PvP over. It seems super reasonable accommodation, considering we don’t even get the global event in fel anymore. @ Kyronix why can’t we get a PvP EM on ATL?

Why do you always need something to fight over, isn't it enough to just prove who is the best.

Covfefe

3 times its been deleted about official 2d not having auto-navigate around objects

So I guess that information must've been wrong.

CovenantX

Lord_Frodo said:

Skittlez1337 said:

I already suggested we should have PvP em events at least on ATL and busiest Asian shard. Mesanna didn’t think it was a good idea. We as pvpers need content to fight over, yew gate PvP gets rather boring after a while. I don’t understand why we can’t have 2 events a month to PvP over. It seems super reasonable accommodation, considering we don’t even get the global event in fel anymore. @ Kyronix why can’t we get a PvP EM on ATL?

Why do you always need something to fight over, isn't it enough to just prove who is the best.

 No... by that same logic, What's the point in adding new content to Trammel?  Once you complete Shadowguard (or insert other "endgame pvm content" here), -you're the best, you've beaten the game.

  I'm not against EM Events being in fel once in a while, but they appear to be much more difficult for the EM to run, judging by past events we had in fel.  -I assume that's the reason we don't get EM events often in fel at all, that and the people that despise pvp no matter what won't bother participating...

 However, Global Events should always be in Fel (and Trammel) because that does bring pvp to places that otherwise rarely has any, off-shards & whichever area the event is happening.

 The wildfire event in Fel Fire dungeon was fun.  -it would be even more fun if the drops were 'cursed', or worked similar to the 'Assassin Honed" items from Wrong, where they're uninsurable until you get them out of the dungeon.

.

Grimbeard

Again i point out having this discussion without addressing third-party clients ridiculous they have private area for NL make one for thos

ForeverFun

A few suggestions:

1. It should no longer be possible to use Powder Of Fortification on items with the "Splintering" property.
2. It should no longer be possible to use a trapped box to escape the effects of the paralyze spell.  After all, the target is paralyzed, they can't reach into a pack to use an item... (consider expanding this to preventing use of other consumables too, while paralyzed)
3. It should no longer be possible for pets to avoid damage while they are mounted.  Mounting a pet should not "delete" it (or whatever takes it out of scope) from the field of battle.

Covfefe

 

ForeverFun said:

A few suggestions:

2. It should no longer be possible to use a trapped box to escape the effects of the paralyze spell.  After all, the target is paralyzed, they can't reach into a pack to use an item... (consider expanding this to preventing use of other consumables too, while paralyzed)

i don't think you can use a consumable while paralyzed already (can when nerve striked). As for not being able to use a box, one person does para blow and another will cross field you in, would be very silly.

Cookie

Lord_Frodo said:

Why do you always need something to fight over, isn't it enough to just prove who is the best.

I've never seen PvMer's kill bosses on the understanding there will be no loot or drops.

You should see the attendance difference between an EM event with drops, and an EM event without drops.

Please explain that, and then justify why you are expecting pvpers to be different?

We all need objectives.

Football pitches have goal-posts, to score goals in, you don't just put 22 players on a pitch, and they run around indefinitely until people have worked out who the best one is.

Covfefe

Cookie said:

Football pitches have goal-posts, to score goals in, you don't just put 22 players on a pitch, and they run around indefinitely until people have worked out who the best one is.

Mate you've never seen West Brom play then

ForeverFun

Covfefe said:

 

ForeverFun said:

A few suggestions:

2. It should no longer be possible to use a trapped box to escape the effects of the paralyze spell.  After all, the target is paralyzed, they can't reach into a pack to use an item... (consider expanding this to preventing use of other consumables too, while paralyzed)

i don't think you can use a consumable while paralyzed already (can when nerve striked). As for not being able to use a box, one person does para blow and another will cross field you in, would be very silly.

Have you/Mervyn checked all things that can be "used", including talisman's, monster stealable, purple potions, etc?

Resisting spells is the counter to reduce the duration of the paralyze spell.

It's a bit silly that within milliseconds of a being hit by the paralyze spell, a "box" is "opened" that removes that effect.

Covfefe

you can't resist paralyzing blow (weapon) with 120 resisting spells (so you would still be crossfielded if you couldn't box it) also, what if someone does evil omen + para, (considering you need only 60 necro to do this). I haven't checked all consumables that can be used during paralysis, look forward to seeing the list of them.

They could maybe make the damage on a trapped box have a very slight delay, but it seems to work okay as is, even with people automating it.

ForeverFun

Note I was talking about "paralyze spell."

On the other hand, if you're being hit by paralyzing blow (weapon), I'm OK with trapped box not working there too.  If resist isn't checked, that's OK, but could be open to debate.  Maybe another combat skill (or combination of tactics and anatomy) could be checked to reduce the duration, if applicable.

CovenantX

ForeverFun said:

1. It should no longer be possible to use a trapped box to escape the effects of the paralyze spell.  After all, the target is paralyzed, they can't reach into a pack to use an item... (consider expanding this to preventing use of other consumables too, while paralyzed)

   Evil-omen paralyze, in against 2+ people would be impossible to survive without evasion if this were to happen.

  I'd like weapon-based paralyzes to not be breakable by taking damage, because they have an immunity after you've been struck by it.

  I did suggest Trapped boxes should do a min of 15 damage (I actually want them to do 20-30 honestly) because that would ensure they're only used when they absolutely need to be, and not just scripted to auto-pop for ~5-7 damage in order to run through 10 paralyze fields or as you say, basically have immunity to paralyze.

you can definitely use most consumables while paralyzed, I think the only ones you can't use while paralyzed are enchanted apples (maybe limited to 'buff foods'?  I can't say I ever tried to use grapes of wrath while para'd.), i know you can chug potions while paralyzed since... forever.

Covfefe

can't use conflag, supernova, or enchanted apple while paralyzed

AtomicBetty

I hate trapped boxes.

My opinion they shouldn't have infinite uses.

My opinion is the dev's don't know what a trap box does otherwise they wouldn't have added the anti-paralyze potion to VvV.

Elvis

AtomicBetty said:

My opinion they shouldn't have infinite uses.

they dupe on demand infinite darts (explosion pots, poison pots) can be only small crates and work in one direction only. is bug?

ezikel

I'm a little late in the discussion, idea said before and that I agree with

1)Make Tele rings paralyze the user while waiting for cursor to appear
2)Rebalance weapons to give non-bokuto weapons a purpose to be used
3)boost the damage  for poison strike
4) give  to spirit speak more hp went your healing your self and make a passive mana regen like focus
5) Parry Mastery - Shield-bash, should no longer proc Glenda's Bone Breaker
6) Splintering Weapon should no longer cause a target to bleed, instead it would only slow a targets movement speed.
7)the bug where blues can go orange, die, lose their orange status and reflag on people after they have been killed without turning orange again.
8)fix the dart cooldown between belt

here few idea
1) change the meta ,we need more diversity and pvp content
2)the bokuto is way to powerful versu any other weapons .it's fast ,hit hard ,paralyse and can splintering .maybe make the weapons 2 heanded and slower or make nerve strike only paralises.
3) after getting splintering ,i should be able to remove the bleed and heal with a bandage .
4)remove bleed from splintering
5)make tamer useful in pvp its 240 skill that give almost nothing .its not normal that i can stand in front of pet and just walk aways
they need a boost of damage and move a little bit faster .
6)its way to easy to foot someone with bola and you need 0 skill for.am not sure if not already the case but you should need at least 45 hci and if you teleport you should lose your bola .
7)let people chose the town buff they need and give its the same option in fel
8)remove all fast cast if bushido is mix with any casting school .
9) kill the meta

Urge

ezikel said:

6)its way to easy to foot someone with bola and you need 0 skill for.am not sure if not already the case but you should need at least 45 hci and if you teleport you should lose your bola .

The bola was supposed to have been fixed years ago where success depended on having a wep skill and skill level. 

I agree with everything else you mentioned. Especially an increase to pets. 


My personal views:

I know this would be a pain in the ass to code but i'd personally like to see all damage, casting and melee, have a damage scale between having real skill and +skill. I feel that would balance and offer more variety to people. (only with pvp)

Pure mages and 1 tile pure warriors need a bump. Ranged only a slight bump. Be mindful of chiv with the warrior or fisters will be the fotm again. Necro needs a major increase. Mystic a slight increase. Lower casting speed of cleansing winds just a little. 

Increase damage of other wep specials to be put on par with ai and nerve. 

For the love of the game, un-nerf the ninja. They were handicapped from the start.