Treasures of the Fey Feedback

Feigr · May 2022

keven2002 said:

Decided to make a push on seeing how many eggs I could really collect in 30min and then gonna try to make a push on ATL to see how many drops I can get from Destard in 30min. I will post my results shortly

The point of a lot of these posts arguing with you is that you're not actually trying. You are putting in minimal effort. You want to just be given the things.

People getting drops in Destard at a high rate are using high suits and skills they've accumulated. You're wanting to just jump in there and get the same results.

I know my route for eggs after weeks of gathering them. You're not going to get the same results because you haven't put in effort.

I watch other players playing and learn from their mistakes/wins.

At the end of the day it's a video game. You're still expected to play it.

Archangel · May 2022

Feigr said:

keven2002 said:

Decided to make a push on seeing how many eggs I could really collect in 30min and then gonna try to make a push on ATL to see how many drops I can get from Destard in 30min. I will post my results shortly

The point of a lot of these posts arguing with you is that you're not actually trying. You are putting in minimal effort. You want to just be given the things.

People getting drops in Destard at a high rate are using high suits and skills they've accumulated. You're wanting to just jump in there and get the same results.

I know my route for eggs after weeks of gathering them. You're not going to get the same results because you haven't put in effort.

I watch other players playing and learn from their mistakes/wins.

At the end of the day it's a video game. You're still expected to play it.

LOL, would you care to compare suits? I'm sure most of those who have complained have better ones than you could start to imagine.

Personally think Keven has been playing a lot more than you (or I for that matter) NONSTOP, so your post is just a tad pedantic and TBH, cringe.

For an *expert, *newcomer, *profi, *noob, *return-player, whatever you wanna be this week, you sure have opinions about what others are doing... By your own posts, you weren't here for any of the last "Treasures Of xx" events, so your experience for comparison is not too up to standards. That saying about the arrogance of ignorance comes to mind.

Feigr · May 2022

Archangel said:

Feigr said:

keven2002 said:

Decided to make a push on seeing how many eggs I could really collect in 30min and then gonna try to make a push on ATL to see how many drops I can get from Destard in 30min. I will post my results shortly

The point of a lot of these posts arguing with you is that you're not actually trying. You are putting in minimal effort. You want to just be given the things.

People getting drops in Destard at a high rate are using high suits and skills they've accumulated. You're wanting to just jump in there and get the same results.

I know my route for eggs after weeks of gathering them. You're not going to get the same results because you haven't put in effort.

I watch other players playing and learn from their mistakes/wins.

At the end of the day it's a video game. You're still expected to play it.

LOL, would you care to compare suits?

For an *expert, *newcomer, *profi, *noob, *return-player, whatever you wanna be this week, you sure have opinions about what others are doing... By your own posts, you weren't here for any of the last "Treasures Of xx" events, so your experience for comparison is not too up to snuff

A ) I'm not responding to you. I'm responding to Keven who I already showed is exaggerating eggs.

B ) I do think I've played enough to be an expert at gathering the EGGS at least. NOTICE that I only responded to that part of his post.

C ) I'm reading other posts here that have also said people should post their skills/suits. So yes, sure, if you're complaining about the drop rate... post your suit/skills. I'm not an expert in that and haven't pretended to be.

I will say it seems obvious that ranged is best, to equip a dragon slayer bow, and to get the Fey Slayer if you don't already have one as soon as you can.

D ) I haven't made a comparison once.

Also, what you're doing and since argument fallacies have been brought up before, is called an Ad Hominem argument. You don't have an argument to what I said, so you are attacking me. It's a fallacy because it doesn't prove the point your arguing.

Feigr · May 2022

I do have an opinion on this. Because I'm trying to help. If you're struggling finding eggs, I will legit join your shard and show you my route.

dvvid · May 2022

The scripting in the "pile" on ATL is a major contributor to the lag in the dungeon. It does not matter if you are near the pile or not, you get a few steps in, pause for a few seconds, get a few steps, pause, repeat. It is a horrible experience for anyone trying to actually run around and kill stuff (actively play the game). By the devs allowing the scripting stuff to go on, they are basically encouraging everyone to just give up and do the same. Try escaping a paragon when you stop while running every 2-3 seconds...typically not possible. Feeling quite encouraged to change my playstyle to braindead scripting, just so I can get a few items and not deal with the infuriating lag while running around.

This is seriously a scripters paradise. The devs are just letting them have it. Its disappointing to those who actually enjoy actively playing the game. Its such a let down in its current state, in my opinion.

Archangel · May 2022

Feigr said:

Archangel said:

Feigr said:

keven2002 said:

Decided to make a push on seeing how many eggs I could really collect in 30min and then gonna try to make a push on ATL to see how many drops I can get from Destard in 30min. I will post my results shortly

The point of a lot of these posts arguing with you is that you're not actually trying. You are putting in minimal effort. You want to just be given the things.

People getting drops in Destard at a high rate are using high suits and skills they've accumulated. You're wanting to just jump in there and get the same results.

I know my route for eggs after weeks of gathering them. You're not going to get the same results because you haven't put in effort.

I watch other players playing and learn from their mistakes/wins.

At the end of the day it's a video game. You're still expected to play it.

LOL, would you care to compare suits?

For an *expert, *newcomer, *profi, *noob, *return-player, whatever you wanna be this week, you sure have opinions about what others are doing... By your own posts, you weren't here for any of the last "Treasures Of xx" events, so your experience for comparison is not too up to snuff

A ) I'm not responding to you. I'm responding to Keven who I already showed is exaggerating eggs.

B ) I do think I've played enough to be an expert at gathering the EGGS at least. NOTICE that I only responded to that part of his post.

C ) I'm reading other posts here that have also said people should post their skills/suits. So yes, sure, if you're complaining about the drop rate... post your suit/skills. I'm not an expert in that and haven't pretended to be.

I will say it seems obvious that ranged is best, to equip a dragon slayer bow, and to get the Fey Slayer if you don't already have one as soon as you can.

D ) I haven't made a comparison once.

Also, what you're doing and since argument fallacies have been brought up before, is called an Ad Hominem argument. You don't have an argument to what I said, so you are attacking me. It's a fallacy because it doesn't prove the point your arguing.

I stand corrected as per your claryfications. However, your sentences being applicable to everyone did elicit the response.
As per Ad-Hominem, I'm happy you know the term, and indeed my second paragraph borderlined it without actually fulfilling it.

D ) I haven't made a comparison once.
"People getting drops in Destard at a high rate are using high suits and skills they've accumulated. You're wanting to just jump in there and get the same results."
That last sentence is you making comparisons.

where to begin on the lecturing of this one above! If I said the likes of it to a woman I'd be lynched for mansplaining, lol. Thing is, you have zero clue about the skills and suit Keven has accumulated, so you're just making things up, and making it seem like he doesn't know what he's about. Defamation would be the charge.

This other one is you making a prejudiced unfounded declaration and demeaning sententiae:
The point of a lot of these posts arguing with you is that you're not actually trying
Here you delcare , in tone of knowing, how much or not he does try. Really, how would you or any of us know???

Each sentence is a treasure trove, but I shall stop there, I do hate keyboards

Feigr · May 2022

I do know he exaggerated about egg gathering. And I do know people have asked others to post their suits/skills if they are complaining. This is a community. The game is complicated. Accept help.

I was responding that I wasn't comparing to previous events. You're trying to tie me into a corner and have a got you moment.

Archangel said:

By your own posts, you weren't here for any of the last "Treasures Of xx" events, so your experience for comparison is not too up to standards. That saying about the arrogance of ignorance comes to mind.

You're arguing things and then when I respond, you misrepresent your previous arguments.

I pay to play this game. I don't pay to argue on the internet with people that do this.

My offer stands, if anyone is struggling for eggs. Just message me. I will walk you through my route.

Violet · May 2022

Archangel said:

Personally think Keven has been playing a lot more than you (or I for that matter) NONSTOP, so your post is just a tad pedantic and TBH, cringe.

Pretty sure Keven2002 admitted on another forum to only playing 90 minutes in the last 3-4 days.

Seth · May 2022

dvvid said:

The scripting in the "pile" on ATL is a major contributor to the lag in the dungeon. It does not matter if you are near the pile or not, you get a few steps in, pause for a few seconds, get a few steps, pause, repeat. It is a horrible experience for anyone trying to actually run around and kill stuff (actively play the game). By the devs allowing the scripting stuff to go on, they are basically encouraging everyone to just give up and do the same. Try escaping a paragon when you stop while running every 2-3 seconds...typically not possible. Feeling quite encouraged to change my playstyle to braindead scripting, just so I can get a few items and not deal with the infuriating lag while running around.

This is seriously a scripters paradise. The devs are just letting them have it. Its disappointing to those who actually enjoy actively playing the game. Its such a let down in its current state, in my opinion.

I had the impression that last time Dev learnt from Treasures of Tokuno, and subsequently changed the code to only reward those who are moving around and not sitting at the same location 24/7. This Destard event reminds me of Tokuno, but the major difference back then macroers were sent to the Bucs Bath and given a warning letter.

@Kyronix ;
Why not just put back anti macro code and return use the same drop rate as past events, increase the spawn.

Pawain · May 2022

Archangel said:

keven2002 said:

I decided to go to Origin after becoming frustrated with how scripted ATL was at 6:30am.

I was killing stuff for about 20min or so and was able to get 4 drops (admittedly this could be higher if I had more than just a mage on Origin) and there were not any bot / script piles setup at this point. I was looking to do an hour just to compare drop rates without a bot / script pile present but my time was cut short because there was a paragon shadow wyrm / weald protector / crystal lattice floating around which I have no chance at solo'ing so I just packed it up and decided to try to grab eggs. For the next 40minutes I went egg hunting and I was able to pickup 150 eggs by casually recalling around (no real rush). It was pretty laid back and easy but terribly boring... I also did not like needing to have all the eggs in my main pack and targeting each one doing it one at a time.

My takeaway from a very short sample size:

It's going to be tough sledding for anyone not botting/scripting on ATL because it's completely different than Origin is right now. There is the obvious botter piles auto killing everything so even 4 drops in 20min is tough for me with any of my chars (I use CC) but the bots are also running rails and picking up majority of the eggs... there is no way I can pickup more than maybe 20 eggs on ATL in 40min (and that is if I'm lucky). No matter how you slice it, ATL needs some sort of fix.

For a shard that isn't ATL things seem backwards with the current dungeon drop rate versus drop rate using eggs. Admittedly my setup was optimized (assuming sampire would be best) for the dungeon so I might have been able to get more drops in Destard BUT that also kind of proves my point even further. I need an optimized build with fully built suit/ slayers / skills etc to pull let's say 20 or so drops an hour in Destard. I'll even go as far as to say 25-30 drops. I was able to pull 15 drops in about 40min which I could have also optimized if we take that approach. So with a build that could literally be a new char with 100% LRC and 75magery (no other skill needed) just casually recalling around, I would be around 200-250 eggs an hour aka 20-25 drops. That seems very lopsided and like the risk vs reward relationship is broken.

Lol, I just saw you on Origin arriving at an egg farm just as I was leaving, hehehe. Happy egg hunting! (beats the drop rate, huh?)

oh, and now you beat me to that farm, hehehe!

When 2 bots meet.

is in the air.

keven2002 · May 2022

@Feigr - I do not find the need to argue with you given that you literally started a thread about your comedic return like 2 weeks ago so you don't have previous events under your belt to compare / contrast; I do. Generally speaking this event is WAY more geared towards the scripter/bots winning and the ability to find eggs on ATL is just one of many examples of that. Did I say it's impossible to find them? No. Will the typical player gather much less on ATL compared to other shards? Yes.

I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue as the ability to gather MORE eggs as opposed to less just further proves my point that it doesn't make sense that a 50 skill player just created 20min ago will (on average) out pace the drop rate of someone with an uber suit. Thanks for helping prove my point there.

The other point I'm making (and many others agree / confirmed this) is that the spawn in Tram is broken and needs attention. Please feel free to disprove any of these (speaking directly for ATL):

The spawn on level 1 continues to spawn predictably and majority in 2-3 spots. These are on the way and on the ramp to level 2.
It's so predictable that you have literally dozens of bots using the same exact template and strategy to chain AI on anything that spawns.
It's so overcrowded with such little spawn that literally anything NOT a paragon and within range is killed before you can even pull up its health bar. Even a shadow wyrm paragon dies within 5 seconds of spawning in this area.
The rest of the first level is essentially a ghost town with very little spawn compared to the hallway to level 2
Regardless of template (insert what you think the best template is) the amount of drops today is a fraction of what it was day 1. If you were to get 200 on day 1 and you played that same amount of time today you wouldn't come close to that again.
Without using a luck potion from the store; the drop rate of players risking more in the dungeon with fully built chars and suits (my suit is easily over 1P) is AT BEST the same as a newbie going around to collect eggs but more likely is less
EJ accounts should not be receiving drops from killing spawn to discourage free accounts from taking away the kills of those paying.

I don't really care how they remedy the issue whether it be to spawn more stuff so there is more stuff to kill / increase the drop rate on what you do kill / open up Fel; it doesn;t matter but something needs to be done.

Let me ask you this since you feel the need to argue with me... why are you (or anyone else) against addressing the spawn issue? The only reason I can think why someone would be against it is because they have multiple EJ accounts (or maybe just 1) botting and you don't want anything to change because that means a loss of control on the market. Who cares if more people are able to EARN drops by actually playing and fighting in the dungeon?

AnneNomilly · May 2022

Could we stop attacking each other, playstyles, suits, etc. and maybe focus on the original reported issue? A casual player is unable to successfully play this event in Destard. The cost of the items, compared to the amount of time it takes to get the drops is unbalanced unless you hop in a group with archers/necro/spellweavers, stand put and shoot. Prices are skyrocketing for the drops/rewards, which is pricing the average NON POWER player out of this event.

Do we want to keep all players in the game or only the power gamer/sellers? Do we really need to argue with each other like this? If the "pile" on Atlantic is working, it's because it's the only thing currently that is successful for the largest group or players. But it still leaves out a wide swath of players.

The eggs are great that it's available. But it's nowhere near the level of what's needed to obtain the items. And, with them being shard bound, lower population shards players don't stand a chance in hell.

But please, let's do keep blaming the casual players and sniping at each other. That's super productive.

Archangel · May 2022

Pawain said:

Archangel said:

keven2002 said:

I decided to go to Origin after becoming frustrated with how scripted ATL was at 6:30am.

I was killing stuff for about 20min or so and was able to get 4 drops (admittedly this could be higher if I had more than just a mage on Origin) and there were not any bot / script piles setup at this point. I was looking to do an hour just to compare drop rates without a bot / script pile present but my time was cut short because there was a paragon shadow wyrm / weald protector / crystal lattice floating around which I have no chance at solo'ing so I just packed it up and decided to try to grab eggs. For the next 40minutes I went egg hunting and I was able to pickup 150 eggs by casually recalling around (no real rush). It was pretty laid back and easy but terribly boring... I also did not like needing to have all the eggs in my main pack and targeting each one doing it one at a time.

My takeaway from a very short sample size:

It's going to be tough sledding for anyone not botting/scripting on ATL because it's completely different than Origin is right now. There is the obvious botter piles auto killing everything so even 4 drops in 20min is tough for me with any of my chars (I use CC) but the bots are also running rails and picking up majority of the eggs... there is no way I can pickup more than maybe 20 eggs on ATL in 40min (and that is if I'm lucky). No matter how you slice it, ATL needs some sort of fix.

For a shard that isn't ATL things seem backwards with the current dungeon drop rate versus drop rate using eggs. Admittedly my setup was optimized (assuming sampire would be best) for the dungeon so I might have been able to get more drops in Destard BUT that also kind of proves my point even further. I need an optimized build with fully built suit/ slayers / skills etc to pull let's say 20 or so drops an hour in Destard. I'll even go as far as to say 25-30 drops. I was able to pull 15 drops in about 40min which I could have also optimized if we take that approach. So with a build that could literally be a new char with 100% LRC and 75magery (no other skill needed) just casually recalling around, I would be around 200-250 eggs an hour aka 20-25 drops. That seems very lopsided and like the risk vs reward relationship is broken.

Lol, I just saw you on Origin arriving at an egg farm just as I was leaving, hehehe. Happy egg hunting! (beats the drop rate, huh?)

oh, and now you beat me to that farm, hehehe!

When 2 bots meet. is in the air.

Like McDougle would say Sugar Troll, how can a bot be there to wave those he encounters. Are you jealous? lol

Archangel · May 2022

Feigr said:

I do know he exaggerated about egg gathering. And I do know people have asked others to post their suits/skills if they are complaining. This is a community. The game is complicated. Accept help.

I was responding that I wasn't comparing to previous events. You're trying to tie me into a corner and have a got you moment.

Archangel said:

By your own posts, you weren't here for any of the last "Treasures Of xx" events, so your experience for comparison is not too up to standards. That saying about the arrogance of ignorance comes to mind.

You're arguing things and then when I respond, you misrepresent your previous arguments.

I pay to play this game. I don't pay to argue on the internet with people that do this.

My offer stands, if anyone is struggling for eggs. Just message me. I will walk you through my route.

Come to Origin and I will show you my route to collect at least 250 eggs in one hour.

Archangel · May 2022

AnneNomilly said:

Could we stop attacking each other, playstyles, suits, etc. and maybe focus on the original reported issue? A casual player is unable to successfully play this event in Destard. The cost of the items, compared to the amount of time it takes to get the drops is unbalanced unless you hop in a group with archers/necro/spellweavers, stand put and shoot. Prices are skyrocketing for the drops/rewards, which is pricing the average NON POWER player out of this event.

Do we want to keep all players in the game or only the power gamer/sellers? Do we really need to argue with each other like this? If the "pile" on Atlantic is working, it's because it's the only thing currently that is successful for the largest group or players. But it still leaves out a wide swath of players.

The eggs are great that it's available. But it's nowhere near the level of what's needed to obtain the items. And, with them being shard bound, lower population shards players don't stand a chance in hell.

But please, let's do keep blaming the casual players and sniping at each other. That's super productive.

Beautifully stated!

McDougle · May 2022

We have plenty of time the event is until July but it's mid morning on Monday and not a peep from developers...

Pawain · May 2022

McDougle said:

We have plenty of time the event is until July but it's mid morning on Monday and not a peep from developers...

What are they going to say?

They already said this dungeon is different and they can not increase the spawn in other areas.

So, unless they open the hole we are stuck with what we got. A dungeon that only has mobs in the ramp areas. Exactly like it was if someone did not find the hole on their shard on day one.

Archangel · May 2022

McDougle said:

We have plenty of time the event is until July but it's mid morning on Monday and not a peep from developers...

As opposed to any other day of the week, when peeps shine for their absence too! lol

Archangel · May 2022

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

We have plenty of time the event is until July but it's mid morning on Monday and not a peep from developers...

What are they going to say?

They already said this dungeon is different and they can not increase the spawn in other areas.

So, unless they open the hole we are stuck with what we got. A dungeon that only has mobs in the ramp areas. Exactly like it was if someone did not find the hole on their shard on day one.

Now that's where this comedic-diary-writer could've gotten Keven... He and his mouth got us all into this fiasco, Therein lies his guilt

McDougle · May 2022

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

We have plenty of time the event is until July but it's mid morning on Monday and not a peep from developers...

What are they going to say?

They already said this dungeon is different and they can not increase the spawn in other areas.

So, unless they open the hole we are stuck with what we got. A dungeon that only has mobs in the ramp areas. Exactly like it was if someone did not find the hole on their shard on day one.

Well I've given my suggestion
We dropped the ball
We will work at fixing
Everyone get one free pick

But at this point anything literally even we appreciate the feedback but this is working as intended. But ostrich style of communication needs to change..

keven2002 · May 2022

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

We have plenty of time the event is until July but it's mid morning on Monday and not a peep from developers...

What are they going to say?

They already said this dungeon is different and they can not increase the spawn in other areas.

So, unless they open the hole we are stuck with what we got. A dungeon that only has mobs in the ramp areas. Exactly like it was if someone did not find the hole on their shard on day one.

They could say (and do) plenty; in fact anything from below would probably suffice for many people:

The easiest thing they could do is probably bump the spawn back up some; maybe not where it was day 1 but maybe 50-75% of it so there is more to kill in the script zones which would allow those not scripting to have a chance.

The next thing they could do is open up Fel, that seems like it would be pretty easy too. Just "turn on" the dungeon in Fel like they did in Tram.

They could probably tweak the drop rate some so that if 1000 damage points get you a drop they could change that number to 750 points. I don't know the formula bc they like to keep those things secret but ultimately we know there is some point where a drop triggers... just lower that point by 25%.

I also think that they could actually change the spawn locations because they already have done so once so why wouldn't they be able to do so again?

They could say that they are still monitoring it and request some more direct feedback in the game etc so they have more information to make a decision from. After that they can make whatever changes they think would be the right call.

They could also technically do nothing (which I think would be a mistake) and say exactly what you said which is essentially "go kick rocks" we aren't changing anything. At least at that point we know what we are stuck with.

Seems like there are several options for them to pick from here...

drcossack · May 2022

Jepeth said:

So here's the problem I have with this line of thinking. What is the acceptable level of playtime to qualify someone for speaking about Felucca? Mind you we're discussing gameplay mechanics, here. These are systems in a video game, not societal abstraction.

Someone lives in Felucca, but that's not good enough: are they allowed to comment?
Someone runs a thief in VvV to farm the virtue and vice paintings: are they allowed to comment?
Someone farms powerscrolls in Felucca on a shard many of y'all consider dead: are they allowed to comment?
Someone began the game in 1998, but they've left and returned a bunch of times: are they allowed to comment?
Someone gathers resources in Felucca but as reds aren't out roaming around for lumberjacks: are they allowed to comment?

Does a person have to be one of the couple dozen PVPers on Atlantic to qualify for "speaking about Felucca" privileges? How much PVP is the right amount for you?

Turn this around a bit. You say 90% of the game is in Trammel. Are you partaking in literally every aspect of the game in Trammel so as to qualify to speak about its gameplay mechanics? No, because that'd be silly.

Actually, yes, I have done a vast majority of the content in Tram at one point or another. Just as I've pvp'd in this game. As for your questions:

1) No, it isn't. I've had houses in Fel for the entirety of my playtime. Back in the day, that was because one of my chars was Red & I had to do it. I didn't do pvm content (in Fel, at least) outside of champ spawns back then, because there was no need to. It wasn't worth the time & effort. Now? If I want to kill monsters in Fel, I can do so for hours & probably won't see anyone. If I do, they probably won't bother me. Granted, I only go to specific dungeons to kill monsters (you'll often find me in Fel Destard on Level 2), and for one specific reason: Fame farming for the Sacrifice virtue. The main reason for that: You can't recall into Fel dungeons + you get more fame/karma from Fel mobs.

2) Let's be honest, nobody cares about VvV outside of using it to pvp without getting murder counts, because literally everyone is in it for that reason.

3) Sure, why not? Dead shard or not, those people, at the very least, have some playtime in Felucca. You can even farm spawns on Atlantic if you know where to go/do it at the right time.

4) When people started their account & how long they've played (or haven't played) isn't relevant.

5) It's 2022. The days where players were literally everywhere are long gone. Sure, some servers are more active than others, though I only have knowledge of two of them - On LS, if you just spend all day in Luna, you'd think the place was dead. Atlantic's population speaks for itself.

Ultimately, you seem to be misunderstanding something, likely on purpose. Powerscrolls, at the end of the day, are not worth the time it takes to farm them. I won't say the money isn't worth it, because it very much is. But you have to factor in two different variables as far as scrolls go:

All of the skills that can drop as a powerscroll from Champ Spawns: 11 combat skills, 12 casting skills, 3 for wilderness, 3 (?) for hiding, and all 4 for bard. Then the game rolls on the cap that the scroll raises it to, and you only have 6 (or 12) chances at them: 110, 115, 120. Yes, you can scroll bind up to 120, but that also takes a good amount of time.

btw, "speaking about Fel" and "speaking about pvp" are two different things. I'll use Final Fantasy 14 as an example: While I have almost all of the game's jobs for all of the roles (tank, healer, melee/ranged/caster DPS) at level 80 (and some at the current cap of 90), there are only a few that I actively play for endgame content. I have no opinion on the jobs that I only leveled because of achievements & titles.

The people that want Powerscrolls in Tram won't farm them even if they do get added there. You do know that, right? The Tram spawns are on a set respawn timer. Do you know what these people really want when they ask for that? To remove the ONE exclusive reward that Fel's had for 20 years. All because they could never get those scrolls back in the day when the game had a lot more subscribers; there is nothing stopping those same people from getting a group together and doing those spawns now.

McDougle · May 2022

The people that want Powerscrolls in Tram won't farm them even if they do get added there. You do know that, right? The Tram spawns are on a set respawn timer. Do you know what these people really want when they ask for that? To remove the ONE exclusive reward that Fel's had for 20 years.

This is not quite correct i ask for ps in tram because pvpers want tram content in fel. Content they can already do in tram you can't say in one sentence we pvp for the love then say we need a new reward

drcossack · May 2022

McDougle said:

The people that want Powerscrolls in Tram won't farm them even if they do get added there. You do know that, right? The Tram spawns are on a set respawn timer. Do you know what these people really want when they ask for that? To remove the ONE exclusive reward that Fel's had for 20 years.

This is not quite correct i ask for ps in tram because pvpers want tram content in fel. Content they can already do in tram you can't say in one sentence we pvp for the love then say we need a new reward

What Tram content do the pvp'ers want in Fel? Besides this Treasures of the Fey event, which, y'know, really SHOULD be in there. Especially since they've done it for past Treasures events.

Pawain · May 2022

keven2002 said:

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

We have plenty of time the event is until July but it's mid morning on Monday and not a peep from developers...

What are they going to say?

They already said this dungeon is different and they can not increase the spawn in other areas.

So, unless they open the hole we are stuck with what we got. A dungeon that only has mobs in the ramp areas. Exactly like it was if someone did not find the hole on their shard on day one.

They could say (and do) plenty; in fact anything from below would probably suffice for many people:

The easiest thing they could do is probably bump the spawn back up some; maybe not where it was day 1 but maybe 50-75% of it so there is more to kill in the script zones which would allow those not scripting to have a chance.

The next thing they could do is open up Fel, that seems like it would be pretty easy too. Just "turn on" the dungeon in Fel like they did in Tram.

They could probably tweak the drop rate some so that if 1000 damage points get you a drop they could change that number to 750 points. I don't know the formula bc they like to keep those things secret but ultimately we know there is some point where a drop triggers... just lower that point by 25%.

I also think that they could actually change the spawn locations because they already have done so once so why wouldn't they be able to do so again?

They could say that they are still monitoring it and request some more direct feedback in the game etc so they have more information to make a decision from. After that they can make whatever changes they think would be the right call.

They could also technically do nothing (which I think would be a mistake) and say exactly what you said which is essentially "go kick rocks" we aren't changing anything. At least at that point we know what we are stuck with.

Seems like there are several options for them to pick from here...

I prefer a game that does not change based on scripting. Scripting will happen if they reduce the spawn to 1 mob a minute.

You should have kept your mouth shut and maybe we would still have the hole. Then we would be able to get items also, not just scripters.

Jepeth · May 2022

drcossack said:
Actually, yes, I have done a vast majority of the content in Tram at one point or another. Just as I've pvp'd in this game. As for your questions:

1) No, it isn't. I've had houses in Fel for the entirety of my playtime. Back in the day, that was because one of my chars was Red & I had to do it. I didn't do pvm content (in Fel, at least) outside of champ spawns back then, because there was no need to. It wasn't worth the time & effort. Now? If I want to kill monsters in Fel, I can do so for hours & probably won't see anyone. If I do, they probably won't bother me. Granted, I only go to specific dungeons to kill monsters (you'll often find me in Fel Destard on Level 2), and for one specific reason: Fame farming for the Sacrifice virtue. The main reason for that: You can't recall into Fel dungeons + you get more fame/karma from Fel mobs.
2) Let's be honest, nobody cares about VvV outside of using it to pvp without getting murder counts, because literally everyone is in it for that reason.
3) Sure, why not? Dead shard or not, those people, at the very least, have some playtime in Felucca. You can even farm spawns on Atlantic if you know where to go/do it at the right time.
4) When people started their account & how long they've played (or haven't played) isn't relevant.
5) It's 2022. The days where players were literally everywhere are long gone. Sure, some servers are more active than others, though I only have knowledge of two of them - On LS, if you just spend all day in Luna, you'd think the place was dead. Atlantic's population speaks for itself.

Ultimately, you seem to be misunderstanding something, likely on purpose. Powerscrolls, at the end of the day, are not worth the time it takes to farm them. I won't say the money isn't worth it, because it very much is. But you have to factor in two different variables as far as scrolls go:

All of the skills that can drop as a powerscroll from Champ Spawns: 11 combat skills, 12 casting skills, 3 for wilderness, 3 (?) for hiding, and all 4 for bard. Then the game rolls on the cap that the scroll raises it to, and you only have 6 (or 12) chances at them: 110, 115, 120. Yes, you can scroll bind up to 120, but that also takes a good amount of time.

btw, "speaking about Fel" and "speaking about pvp" are two different things. I'll use Final Fantasy 14 as an example: While I have almost all of the game's jobs for all of the roles (tank, healer, melee/ranged/caster DPS) at level 80 (and some at the current cap of 90), there are only a few that I actively play for endgame content. I have no opinion on the jobs that I only leveled because of achievements & titles.

The people that want Powerscrolls in Tram won't farm them even if they do get added there. You do know that, right? The Tram spawns are on a set respawn timer. Do you know what these people really want when they ask for that? To remove the ONE exclusive reward that Fel's had for 20 years. All because they could never get those scrolls back in the day when the game had a lot more subscribers; there is nothing stopping those same people from getting a group together and doing those spawns now.

So, to be frank, I find your logic on who does and does not qualify for the sacred right to criticize PVP and Felucca as a game mechanic in the 25th year of Ultima Online arbitrary. But if you'd like maybe someone will program a nice website for you that if you enter in answers matching yours to my questions the website will say "PVP/Felucca Qualifying!" with a happy little chime. Maybe cah can whip that up.

You are, however, under the mistaken impression that I was asking for powerscrolls in Trammel. I wasn't, neither in my feedback nor in my reply to you. That was McDougle. As far as your beliefs on why people want to have Trammel power scroll champion spawns, that's entirely your own preconceived notions about others and their supposed twenty year old grievances to figure out. My initial suggestion in my feedback to the team was that if they were to add the event to Felucca then perhaps they should remove the champion spawns from dropping Treasures items.

I played all of Treasures of Fire in Felucca and the Semidar spawn offered a ton of points for minimal effort compared to what was going on in Trammel. We can go back and forth on the risk v. reward argument all you want, but, again, I believe it's greed working here. PVPers want to play the event in Felucca to reduce competition and earn regular spawn drops, they want to PK players for the drops they've earned, they want to earn more drops because of the champion spawn's density, and they also wouldn't mind having the powerscrolls that Rikktor would supply.

Our team has a reason for not including the spawn in Felucca; it did not happen by chance. Until they supply us with that part of their game design philosophy I think we can assume it has something to do with the reasons I just mentioned.

drcossack · May 2022

Jepeth said:

You are, however, under the mistaken impression that I was asking for powerscrolls in Trammel. I wasn't, neither in my feedback nor in my reply to you. That was McDougle. As far as your beliefs on why people want to have Trammel power scroll champion spawns, that's entirely your own preconceived notions about others and their supposed twenty year old grievances to figure out. My initial suggestion in my feedback to the team was that if they were to add the event to Felucca then perhaps they should remove the champion spawns from dropping Treasures items.

I played all of Treasures of Fire in Felucca and the Semidar spawn offered a ton of points for minimal effort compared to what was going on in Trammel. We can go back and forth on the risk v. reward argument all you want, but, again, I believe it's greed working here. PVPers want to play the event in Felucca to reduce competition and earn regular spawn drops, they want to PK players for the drops they've earned, they want to earn more drops because of the champion spawn's density, and they also wouldn't mind having the powerscrolls that Rikktor would supply.

Our team has a reason for not including the spawn in Felucca; it did not happen by chance. Until they supply us with that part of their game design philosophy I think we can assume it has something to do with the reasons I just mentioned.

I'm well aware they have their reasons for not including it in Fel, just as I'm well aware what would happen if they threw the event there, especially with the champ spawn active. But look at what Destard is now, especially on Atl. It's a scripter's paradise there. Do you honestly think that people would be scripting it in Fel if it was there? They wouldn't...well, let me rephrase that. They still would, but they're still at risk of getting killed.

JenniferMarie · May 2022

I made a comment to a friend of mine over the weekend while we were playing in Destard, and I've been mulling over if I should say something here with all of the feedback.

Think I've decided to share it with @Kyronix ...

For sure, the first 24-36 hours of Destard was ... interesting. I am sure there was some fairly bad lag on Atlantic, since Great Lakes had it's fair share of some pretty gnarly lag when most people were in Destard farming.

But it genuinely was the best time in a dungeon event I've personally witnessed people having. Usually, there is a lot of complaining in Gen Chat about people dying nonstop to paragons or people dragging paragons while running away or begging for help with fighting paragons. But that first day or two of Destard, people were actually having a blast.

I'm sure the spawn/drop rate of that first day or two was unintended, but it gave every single person on the shard (speaking about GL here, exclusively, as I only play there) a chance to get drops. Some players who don't handle the dungeon events as well as others were getting as many drops as people who are able to handle these events. Even when people would die en masse to a Shadow Wyrm paragon or some such, there was laughing and no belly-aching.

While I completely understand a tweak needed to happen to deal with the lag, it's now kind of gone from one extreme to the other.

So ... the idea I had over the weekend was that the spawn/drop rate should maybe stay the same as it was that first day or two - but there could maybe be multiple spawn points? One on the third level, one on the second level, and on the first level: one in the middle of the dragon pit, one in the area of the Platinum/Crimson Drakes/Water Elementals, one in the "spawn" area, and one up near the second level entrance? That would spread people out, but still give them a decent chance at grouping up, killing things, and getting decent drops. (For all those who complain about the UO market, players getting more drops only helps with that because no one will be spending tons of gold in game on items they can claim for themselves.)

Just my two cents - no one asked for it, so I don't need to be reminded of that by anyone who doesn't like my idea.

Addendum: if these kinds of events are designed to promote community engagement and encourage people to play together, that first couple of days most definitely did that. I understand the “but … scripters!” argument, however it seems the adjustments benefit those scripters more than the actual players.

scripters are going to script so long as there aren’t any consequences or so long as the potential pay-out is greater than the consequences. Giving players a chance to keep up without breaking rules themselves seems like the best case scenario.

Pawain · May 2022

@JenniferMarie ; also the forums were dead when the shards had the pile.

Everybody was playing.

McDougle · May 2022

Pawain said:

@ JenniferMarie also the forums were dead when the shards had the pile.

Everybody was playing

So much this.
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