Treasures of the Fey Feedback

keven2002

Pawain said:

You should have kept your mouth shut and maybe we would still have the hole. Then we would be able to get items also, not just scripters.

You should educate yourself on what you talk about before coming here to type some nonsense because it makes you look bad. Go check the initial threads on day 1; I didn't say a word about the spawn being "too much" because I liked it. I knew there was an issue and was playing as much as I could before the fix (which I assumed would just be spreading out the spawn.... which it wasn't).

I only started talking about how terrible the spawn was when they stealth "fixed" it and reduced it severely. I'd much prefer the spawn be spread out everywhere like literally every other dungeon. The Devs decided to allow bots to have the upper hand and have 2-3 stagnant spawn locations. Terrible idea.

Btw - feel free to take your foot out of your mouth whenever you'd like.

Kaz

Ive heard a lot of: adapt to the event narrative here.  While I agree for the most part, you need to adapt gameplay to certain things for sure. That is gaming in general, and how metas are developed. 

My issue is that this event was obviously not play tested.  

Currently there is 1, maybe 2 effective methods of playing this dungeon with any kind of efficacy. Ultimately content was released that simply doesnt work for a lot of the playerbase. 

Hence the reason why some folks are having to focus on EGG gathering to get points. Not out of love for eggs, but out of sheer frustration with the events difficulty level.  

Arnold7

Think Great Lakes is about right now when a half dozen or so are playing.  Players gang up the bigger paras and do ok on the rest.  Played for a short time in the main spawn area and it was pretty exciting.   It is much better playable than it was the first day or so  
Think Atlantic is the one that has most of the problem. Someone on Great Lakes already has so much for sale I don’t think the rate of return for scripters is there anymore.  Expect prices will start to drop on drops and ingots at some point in the not to distant future.
Making the eggs available for ingots was a great idea.  I both play the spawn and collect eggs now. 

keven2002

just logged on to ATL to see if anything was stealth fixed by Devs and the lag in Destard is literally as bad as it was on day 1.... yet I do not have the drops to show for it. 

So in summary; a "fix" was done for the lag that was happening (where Kyronix said nothing about the spawn changed) that resulted in LESS drops and the SAME lag. Hmm.

Pawain

keven2002 said:

just logged on to ATL to see if anything was stealth fixed by Devs and the lag in Destard is literally as bad as it was on day 1.... yet I do not have the drops to show for it. 

So in summary; a "fix" was done for the lag that was happening (where Kyronix said nothing about the spawn changed) that resulted in LESS drops and the SAME lag. Hmm.

Since you asked above.

Yup and you were the one who called him  to come look at Atl to fix that lag caused by the pile.

He went and looked tagged you then removed the pile.

Foot out of mouth.  I'm here all the time, cant pass something by me.



Would have been changed anyway, but would have been nice to have more time.

keven2002

Was that day 1 P-Stain or was that day 2? Look at UO,com clown; it started on April 26 and that message is from April 28.

ouch. you look that bad....again.

Btw the lag piles are still there. They did nothing but nerf the spawn and that was done before I posted anything. I was too busy getting drops before they stealth nerfed it.

Pawain

Ya that's why he replied to you. I even warned you on stratics that people were going to be unhappy that you called him there.
Anyone interested can look at where you called him to Atlantic.
Also that is where he said he can not increase the spawn in the dead regions.

But shows that a crowd of happy players causes lag.

Hope they do something when NL  comes out or we will get the same results.

dvvid

Yeah on ATL the pile that was immediately at the entrance was taken care of but there are 3 more going toward the second level area, so no removal really took place. It causes lag for the entire dungeon, which basically demands you join them or waste your time. 

Pawain

dvvid said:

Yeah on ATL the pile that was immediately at the entrance was taken care of but there are 3 more going toward the second level area, so no removal really took place. It causes lag for the entire dungeon, which basically demands you join them or waste your time. 

The reapers made us lag.  But you could step back a little and lag went away then go back in till it hit again.  I'm sure Atl was worse.  But too many times UO fixes a leaky pipe with a sledge hammer and the players are not happy.

NL will not begin with reapers and such, but they better prepare and optimize the server or whatever.  A launch that lasts 20 mins will not bring in players.

ForeverFun

It really doesn't matter who or why the "pile" change was made on ~day 3 of this event.  Odds are, a change would have been made regardless of whether a player reported it, particularly if shards were crashing (reportedly atlantic did crash).  It was also pointed out that EJ accounts lost the ability to get drops on day 2, but that later changed back -- my guess is the EJ change was an attempt to mitigate (not fix) the underlying problem.

The repears and spell animations/etc are just one source of lag.  This thread, and the threads that it links to cover some of this.
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/10554/treasures-of-fey-earthquake-in-ec#latest

Further speculation:
My guess would be a major source of the lag in this event relates to the kill rate, corpse generation rate, and garbage collection/cleanup rate of the corpses.  Most people likely aren't partied, so that amplifies the number of corpse instances.

On a server like atlantic, that server could be pushing up to it's object/item limits.  If you are spawning thousands of corpses in short order, and those take minutes to cleanup, that's a problem.

The delayed cleanup of corpses could be a major source of contention as well.  A naive implementation would have the server tracking one list of corpse/items, with one lock, and that lock is held for longer periods of time as the list grows larger.  I point this out as a possible hint to the developers for something to look at.

The lag likely carries over to other dungeons as they are on the same server as destard.  Or there is some global list (and lock protecting it) that affects all the servers for a given shard.

I don't see a problem (lag, etc) like this waiting for NL to fix.  I won't play NL if these problems aren't fixed in the current "pay the bills" production shards.

McDougle

ForeverFun said:

It really doesn't matter who or why the "pile" change was made on ~day 3 of this event.  Odds are, a change would have been made regardless of whether a player reported it, particularly if shards were crashing (reportedly atlantic did crash).  It was also pointed out that EJ accounts lost the ability to get drops on day 2, but that later changed back -- my guess is the EJ change was an attempt to mitigate (not fix) the underlying problem.

The repears and spell animations/etc are just one source of lag.  This thread, and the threads that it links to cover some of this.
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/10554/treasures-of-fey-earthquake-in-ec#latest

Further speculation:
My guess would be a major source of the lag in this event relates to the kill rate, corpse generation rate, and garbage collection/cleanup rate of the corpses.  Most people likely aren't partied, so that amplifies the number of corpse instances.

On a server like atlantic, that server could be pushing up to it's object/item limits.  If you are spawning thousands of corpses in short order, and those take minutes to cleanup, that's a problem.

The delayed cleanup of corpses could be a major source of contention as well.  A naive implementation would have the server tracking one list of corpse/items, with one lock, and that lock is held for longer periods of time as the list grows larger.  I point this out as a possible hint to the developers for something to look at.

The lag likely carries over to other dungeons as they are on the same server as destard.  Or there is some global list (and lock protecting it) that affects all the servers for a given shard.

I don't see a problem (lag, etc) like this waiting for NL to fix.  I won't play NL if these problems aren't fixed in the current "pay the bills" production shards.

Or at least addressed by the developers quit ignoring the player base 

Archangel

JenniferMarie said:

I made a comment to a friend of mine over the weekend while we were playing in Destard, and I've been mulling over if I should say something here with all of the feedback.

Think I've decided to share it with @ Kyronix ...

For sure, the first 24-36 hours of Destard was ... interesting. I am sure there was some fairly bad lag on Atlantic, since Great Lakes had it's fair share of some pretty gnarly lag when most people were in Destard farming.

But it genuinely was the best time in a dungeon event I've personally witnessed people having. Usually, there is a lot of complaining in Gen Chat about people dying nonstop to paragons or people dragging paragons while running away or begging for help with fighting paragons. But that first day or two of Destard, people were actually having a blast.

I'm sure the spawn/drop rate of that first day or two was unintended, but it gave every single person on the shard (speaking about GL here, exclusively, as I only play there) a chance to get drops. Some players who don't handle the dungeon events as well as others were getting as many drops as people who are able to handle these events. Even when people would die en masse to a Shadow Wyrm paragon or some such, there was laughing and no belly-aching.

While I completely understand a tweak needed to happen to deal with the lag, it's now kind of gone from one extreme to the other.

So ... the idea I had over the weekend was that the spawn/drop rate should maybe stay the same as it was that first day or two - but there could maybe be multiple spawn points? One on the third level, one on the second level, and on the first level: one in the middle of the dragon pit, one in the area of the Platinum/Crimson Drakes/Water Elementals, one in the "spawn" area, and one up near the second level entrance? That would spread people out, but still give them a decent chance at grouping up, killing things, and getting decent drops. (For all those who complain about the UO market, players getting more drops only helps with that because no one will be spending tons of gold in game on items they can claim for themselves.)

Just my two cents - no one asked for it, so I don't need to be reminded of that by anyone who doesn't like my idea.

Addendum: if these kinds of events are designed to promote community engagement and encourage people to play together, that first couple of days most definitely did that. I understand the “but … scripters!” argument, however it seems the adjustments benefit those scripters more than the actual players.

scripters are going to script so long as there aren’t any consequences or so long as the potential pay-out is greater than the consequences. Giving players a chance to keep up without breaking rules themselves seems like the best case scenario.

So true!

Seth

drcossack said:

McDougle said:

The people that want Powerscrolls in Tram won't farm them even if they do get added there.  You do know that, right?  The Tram spawns are on a set respawn timer.  Do you know what these people really want when they ask for that?  To remove the ONE exclusive reward that Fel's had for 20 years.  



This is not quite correct i ask for ps in tram because pvpers want tram content in fel. Content they can already do in tram you can't say in one sentence we pvp for the love then say we need a new reward 

What Tram content do the pvp'ers want in Fel?  Besides this Treasures of the Fey event, which, y'know, really SHOULD be in there.  Especially since they've done it for past Treasures events.

They want "Tram" players to spawn in Fel so that they can hunt them.

Guys, try to solve the pile and drop rate... there is no reward for piling long articles here 

McDougle

Seth said:

drcossack said:

McDougle said:

The people that want Powerscrolls in Tram won't farm them even if they do get added there.  You do know that, right?  The Tram spawns are on a set respawn timer.  Do you know what these people really want when they ask for that?  To remove the ONE exclusive reward that Fel's had for 20 years.  



This is not quite correct i ask for ps in tram because pvpers want tram content in fel. Content they can already do in tram you can't say in one sentence we pvp for the love then say we need a new reward 

What Tram content do the pvp'ers want in Fel?  Besides this Treasures of the Fey event, which, y'know, really SHOULD be in there.  Especially since they've done it for past Treasures events.

They want "Tram" players to spawn in Fel so that they can hunt them.

Guys, try to solve the pile and drop rate... there is no reward for piling long articles here 

See we really all want the same thing all content available to everyone on both facets but the pvpers are unwilling to surrender the 20 year monopoly on ps with the drops not being cursed an auto insurance they want their cake and eat it too 

Maximus_Neximus

Zero drops over the past ~45+ minutes on Atlantic with 1400+ luck. This has got to change. This is NOT fun at all. For the love of god, revert the changes back to day one where people actually had a chance to compete with the scripters.

username

Maximus_Neximus said:

Zero drops over the past ~45+ minutes on Atlantic with 1400+ luck. This has got to change. This is NOT fun at all. For the love of god, revert the changes back to day one where people actually had a chance to compete with the scripters.

This + remove EJ participation would make this 100% more bearable.

Pawain

username said:

Maximus_Neximus said:

Zero drops over the past ~45+ minutes on Atlantic with 1400+ luck. This has got to change. This is NOT fun at all. For the love of god, revert the changes back to day one where people actually had a chance to compete with the scripters.

This + remove EJ participation would make this 100% more bearable.

And how do you tell which accounts are EJ.  Some people have 10 plus accounts.

Please explain how you know.

McDougle

Pawain said:

username said:

Maximus_Neximus said:

Zero drops over the past ~45+ minutes on Atlantic with 1400+ luck. This has got to change. This is NOT fun at all. For the love of god, revert the changes back to day one where people actually had a chance to compete with the scripters.

This + remove EJ participation would make this 100% more bearable.

And how do you tell which accounts are EJ.  Some people have 10 plus accounts.

Please explain how you know.

They should not be able to receive drops.... 

Seth

Duplicate post, so hard to type on phone.

Seth

Seth said:

drcossack said:

McDougle said:

The people that want Powerscrolls in Tram won't farm them even if they do get added there.  You do know that, right?  The Tram spawns are on a set respawn timer.  Do you know what these people really want when they ask for that?  To remove the ONE exclusive reward that Fel's had for 20 years.  

What Tram content do the pvp'ers want in Fel?  Besides this Treasures of the Fey event, which, y'know, really SHOULD be in there.  Especially since they've done it for past Treasures events.

They want "Tram" players to spawn in Fel so that they can hunt them.

Guys, try to solve the pile and drop rate... there is no reward for piling long articles here 

See we really all want the same thing all content available to everyone on both facets but the pvpers are unwilling to surrender the 20 year monopoly on ps with the drops not being cursed an auto insurance they want their cake and eat it too 

Getting PS in Tram is a tall order.

There is no reason for pvm to go Fel since event is also at Tram. 

Just some thought of wha me to take the risk to go Fel, there must be carrots:
1) Random window period where pvmer can roam inside, pkers blocked. 

Instead of pker speculating when pvm appear, pvm will not know when pkers can pop in.

2) Drop rate must be twice as much in Fel to attract us there.

Pawain

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

username said:

Maximus_Neximus said:

Zero drops over the past ~45+ minutes on Atlantic with 1400+ luck. This has got to change. This is NOT fun at all. For the love of god, revert the changes back to day one where people actually had a chance to compete with the scripters.

This + remove EJ participation would make this 100% more bearable.

And how do you tell which accounts are EJ.  Some people have 10 plus accounts.

Please explain how you know.

They should not be able to receive drops.... 

In the game you and Popps design that could be the case. But not in UO.

BardrisCaller1

After only getting 10 rewards on my mage after 2 days, I paid to transfer my chiv archer over from a different server and started using him. He definitely gets more drops with the macro posted by this beautiful person Feigr (Thank you!). So far I've picked up 30 drops with him playing for about 5 hours total. My big issue with the drop rate is that I have to setup a macro like this just to compete with the afk people. Many times I still don't get a hit when the mob spawns right next to me. It's dead before the macro even targets it. I didn't go into my files to edit anything. I setup the simple macro and just hit it repeatedly which seems to work somewhat. Definitely better than my mage. I'm disappointed I couldn't do this on my mage and that the only mage item is the most expensive. It's like they set it up against mages on purpose. I personally love playing my poison mage and can play him most places but an easter event? Nope.

Feigr said:

I made this one myself and don't feel bad for sharing.  This includes very little detail of what I was told and I created most of this myself.

Log into EC.

Make sure legacy targetting is off. User Settings > Legacy

Filter out Innocent, Friend, Invulnerable, and summons in your mobiles bar.  User Settings > Mobiles

Equip Fey Talisman

Use a dragon slayer and try to get max swing speed for whatever ranged weapon you choose.  

Create this macro...

Smart Next Target

Cursor Target Current

Attack Current Target

Enable Repeating

Repeat 10 times.

Log out of EC.

DO THE FOLLOWING AT YOUR OWN RISK AND ONLY IF YOU ARE AWARE OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

Go to C:\Users\%WINDOWSNAME%\Ultima Online Stygian Abyss\User Data\%YOURUOACCOUNTNAME%\%SHARD%\

Right click the character name you created the macro on and open with Notepad.

Copy just this section under macros.  Don't copy other lines and copy it from your OWN FILE.

                <UserAction type="UserCommand" id="5201" iconId="865007" targetType="Cursor" text="script Actions.NextTarget()" />

                <UserAction type="CursorTargetCurrent" id="0" iconId="643" targetType="Cursor" />

                <UserAction type="AttackCurrentTarget" id="0" iconId="773" targetType="Cursor" />

                <UserAction type="Delay" id="0" iconId="623" targetType="Cursor" delay="0.25" />

Paste it multiple times under itself.  Save.

Reopen EC.

Put the macro on a hotkey. 

Go to a spot with a fast spawn in Destard.  I suggest the room before going to level 2, level 2 on the left side, or level 3.

drcossack

McDougle said:

Seth said:

drcossack said:

McDougle said:

The people that want Powerscrolls in Tram won't farm them even if they do get added there.  You do know that, right?  The Tram spawns are on a set respawn timer.  Do you know what these people really want when they ask for that?  To remove the ONE exclusive reward that Fel's had for 20 years.  



This is not quite correct i ask for ps in tram because pvpers want tram content in fel. Content they can already do in tram you can't say in one sentence we pvp for the love then say we need a new reward 

What Tram content do the pvp'ers want in Fel?  Besides this Treasures of the Fey event, which, y'know, really SHOULD be in there.  Especially since they've done it for past Treasures events.

They want "Tram" players to spawn in Fel so that they can hunt them.

Guys, try to solve the pile and drop rate... there is no reward for piling long articles here 

See we really all want the same thing all content available to everyone on both facets but the pvpers are unwilling to surrender the 20 year monopoly on ps with the drops not being cursed an auto insurance they want their cake and eat it too 

What monopoly?  This isn't the early 2000's, where multiple guilds policed the spawns and fought over them.  You don't get it - all content IS available to everyone.  You just need to go do it.  Instead of going out and doing spawns for yourselves, you'll whine about the "evil PK's" (that you probably won't even run into) as the reason why you don't go after the ONE thing Fel has over Tram.

But I'll tell you what.  If Tram gets Powerscrolls, how about Fel gets all of the Tram exclusive content in exchange?  Underwater Boss and Shadowguard are a good start.

McDougle

drcossack said:

McDougle said:

Seth said:

drcossack said:

McDougle said:

The people that want Powerscrolls in Tram won't farm them even if they do get added there.  You do know that, right?  The Tram spawns are on a set respawn timer.  Do you know what these people really want when they ask for that?  To remove the ONE exclusive reward that Fel's had for 20 years.  



This is not quite correct i ask for ps in tram because pvpers want tram content in fel. Content they can already do in tram you can't say in one sentence we pvp for the love then say we need a new reward 

What Tram content do the pvp'ers want in Fel?  Besides this Treasures of the Fey event, which, y'know, really SHOULD be in there.  Especially since they've done it for past Treasures events.

They want "Tram" players to spawn in Fel so that they can hunt them.

Guys, try to solve the pile and drop rate... there is no reward for piling long articles here 

See we really all want the same thing all content available to everyone on both facets but the pvpers are unwilling to surrender the 20 year monopoly on ps with the drops not being cursed an auto insurance they want their cake and eat it too 

What monopoly?  This isn't the early 2000's, where multiple guilds policed the spawns and fought over them.  You don't get it - all content IS available to everyone.  You just need to go do it.  Instead of going out and doing spawns for yourselves, you'll whine about the "evil PK's" (that you probably won't even run into) as the reason why you don't go after the ONE thing Fel has over Tram.

But I'll tell you what.  If Tram gets Powerscrolls, how about Fel gets all of the Tram exclusive content in exchange?  Underwater Boss and Shadowguard are a good start.

Yes all content available to all ...

Yoshi

“Did we have all of these complaints and arguments when the event was in deceit and fire dungeon fel?
There was 0% pvp anyway as 100% of the drops were auto insurable. 

It just didn’t have so many afk bots.

i think perhaps they can’t do in fel anymore because they are not fixing any fel related bugs like targeting. Perhaps they are ending support for the game, or clients. “

Skett

So they adjusted the drop rate some are they going to fix the spawn ? 

drcossack

McDougle said:

drcossack said:

McDougle said:

Seth said:

drcossack said:

McDougle said:

The people that want Powerscrolls in Tram won't farm them even if they do get added there.  You do know that, right?  The Tram spawns are on a set respawn timer.  Do you know what these people really want when they ask for that?  To remove the ONE exclusive reward that Fel's had for 20 years.  



This is not quite correct i ask for ps in tram because pvpers want tram content in fel. Content they can already do in tram you can't say in one sentence we pvp for the love then say we need a new reward 

What Tram content do the pvp'ers want in Fel?  Besides this Treasures of the Fey event, which, y'know, really SHOULD be in there.  Especially since they've done it for past Treasures events.

They want "Tram" players to spawn in Fel so that they can hunt them.

Guys, try to solve the pile and drop rate... there is no reward for piling long articles here 

See we really all want the same thing all content available to everyone on both facets but the pvpers are unwilling to surrender the 20 year monopoly on ps with the drops not being cursed an auto insurance they want their cake and eat it too 

What monopoly?  This isn't the early 2000's, where multiple guilds policed the spawns and fought over them.  You don't get it - all content IS available to everyone.  You just need to go do it.  Instead of going out and doing spawns for yourselves, you'll whine about the "evil PK's" (that you probably won't even run into) as the reason why you don't go after the ONE thing Fel has over Tram.

But I'll tell you what.  If Tram gets Powerscrolls, how about Fel gets all of the Tram exclusive content in exchange?  Underwater Boss and Shadowguard are a good start.

Yes all content available to all ...

Again, it already is.  You're just choosing not to go do it.  There's no gameplay restriction that forces you to stay in the Trammel ruleset.

JenniferMarie

For what it’s worth … I personally believe that if a dynamic event like this is in a Tram dungeon, it should also be in a Fel dungeon.

Is there a risk? Yup, cause it’s Fel. But plenty of “Trammies” would rather choose that risk than spend hours upon hours grinding in an elbows-to-a**es packed dungeon for two drops.

Seth

JenniferMarie said:

For what it’s worth … I personally believe that if a dynamic event like this is in a Tram dungeon, it should also be in a Fel dungeon.

Is there a risk? Yup, cause it’s Fel. But plenty of “Trammies” would rather choose that risk than spend hours upon hours grinding in an elbows-to-a**es packed dungeon for two drops.

Not for this Trammy, I would rather chase monsters in Tram then wasting time getting chased by pkers in Fel 

McDougle

drcossack said:

McDougle said:

drcossack said:

McDougle said:

Seth said:

drcossack said:

McDougle said:

The people that want Powerscrolls in Tram won't farm them even if they do get added there.  You do know that, right?  The Tram spawns are on a set respawn timer.  Do you know what these people really want when they ask for that?  To remove the ONE exclusive reward that Fel's had for 20 years.  



This is not quite correct i ask for ps in tram because pvpers want tram content in fel. Content they can already do in tram you can't say in one sentence we pvp for the love then say we need a new reward 

What Tram content do the pvp'ers want in Fel?  Besides this Treasures of the Fey event, which, y'know, really SHOULD be in there.  Especially since they've done it for past Treasures events.

They want "Tram" players to spawn in Fel so that they can hunt them.

Guys, try to solve the pile and drop rate... there is no reward for piling long articles here 

See we really all want the same thing all content available to everyone on both facets but the pvpers are unwilling to surrender the 20 year monopoly on ps with the drops not being cursed an auto insurance they want their cake and eat it too 

What monopoly?  This isn't the early 2000's, where multiple guilds policed the spawns and fought over them.  You don't get it - all content IS available to everyone.  You just need to go do it.  Instead of going out and doing spawns for yourselves, you'll whine about the "evil PK's" (that you probably won't even run into) as the reason why you don't go after the ONE thing Fel has over Tram.

But I'll tell you what.  If Tram gets Powerscrolls, how about Fel gets all of the Tram exclusive content in exchange?  Underwater Boss and Shadowguard are a good start.

Yes all content available to all ...

Again, it already is.  You're just choosing not to go do it.  There's no gameplay restriction that forces you to stay in the Trammel ruleset.

Or for you to stay in fel this old age horse of an argument beaten to death and solved nothing