Pet only powerscrolls

drindeth · June 2020

If there was no trammel, the game would have ended in 2004.

you understand this game rose to popularity without trammel yes? you understand that this game hemoraged players with the advent of age of shadows yes? you can like what you like but dont let your personal bias blind you to the facts.

im not sure you can actually find sub numbers for the time frame. but i personally know of entire pvp guilds that quit the days and weeks after age of shadows. this wasnt an isolated incident there was a sharp decline on most servers

Pawain · June 2020

drindeth said:

If there was no trammel, the game would have ended in 2004.

you understand this game rose to popularity without trammel yes? you understand that this game hemoraged players with the advent of age of shadows yes? you can like what you like but dont let your personal bias blind you to the facts.

Sorry. Many of us left before AoS. Then came back and stayed because of it.

If playing in NPC armor is so popular, why are there not guilds that do it?
Look at the population charts.

Xris · June 2020

People left at AoS because the game did a 180 and became gear driven. Remember 4fc mages?I think a lot of people have their own UO history in their head. UO was poppin before and after tram. Make pet PS, leave player PS in fel. If getting rez killed is griefing, then every game I've played ive been "bullied" on. I get camped on WoW all the time, it's no different than UO.

drindeth · June 2020

talking to you is like talking to a brick wall my guy.

that npc armor thing makes no sense. and brings me to the conclusion you never really played much back in the day if you think it was all just an npc armor thing that made the game good. you cannot replicate pre aos pvp by wearing npc armor. the mechanics are not the same.

and that is fine you didnt play in it but your arguments are completely bias. i want you to realize this, you cant just say "take fel out because i dont like it so that means the entire playerbase dosnt like it either" just like i cant say "take tram out because i dont like it and everyone i know dosnt like it either"

so if you lose 50% of the playerbase and get 20% to come back and "stay" because the shards are so populated now..... is that a net positive for the game? i know people to this day that still pay for accounts to keep houses in a game they most likely will never log into.

where are these population numbers you speak of i would really like to see them. by the sounds of it they are completely fabricated numbers. and its very hard to get an accurate number. because imo 1 player with 5 active subs to multibox should not be reflected in this number which im sure it is.

ActionElly · June 2020

Every time I see a post like this I end up responding because I agree, hate it, and wish for a change. :P

ActionElly · June 2020

Norry said:

You can buy 110's for 20-40k on atl.
Those are gotten most often.
If you play anywhere other than atl, you will not be pked doing tmaps.

I tried to offer other ideas, and ways for you to get scrolls or money to buy them. It is not hard.
Just farming fan dancers you could make 500 mil+ a day.

As Popps accurately said before it's a major grind and an insult to anyone with any intelligence once they realize how much you're getting screwed doing scroll binders. You MIGHT get a 120 in a few years.

Second, how in the world do you make 500 mil in one day killing fan dancers? like literally 24 hours? this is also an insult.

Just face it, it's bs and we all know it.

Xris · June 2020

ActionElly said:

Norry said:

You can buy 110's for 20-40k on atl.
Those are gotten most often.
If you play anywhere other than atl, you will not be pked doing tmaps.

I tried to offer other ideas, and ways for you to get scrolls or money to buy them. It is not hard.
Just farming fan dancers you could make 500 mil+ a day.

As Popps accurately said before it's a major grind and an insult to anyone with any intelligence once they realize how much you're getting screwed doing scroll binders. You MIGHT get a 120 in a few years.

Second, how in the world do you make 500 mil in one day killing fan dancers? like literally 24 hours? this is also an insult.

Just face it, it's bs and we all know it.

I'd be fine with them lowering the amount of scrolls for binders. Seems like a compromise to me.

Pawain · June 2020

drindeth said:

so if you lose 50% of the playerbase and get 20% to come back and "stay" because the shards are so populated now..... is that a net positive for the game? i know people to this day that still pay for accounts to keep houses in a game they most likely will never log into.

Where do you see 50% of the player base in Fel? And you say I fabricate numbers.

I saw many returning players come back and do a champ spawn only to be PKed over and over before they completed the spawn. Then they never returned. Reminds me of the good ole days... Wasted opportunity to get more players during the pandemic.

Time to change!

Norry · June 2020

ActionElly said:

Norry said:

You can buy 110's for 20-40k on atl.
Those are gotten most often.
If you play anywhere other than atl, you will not be pked doing tmaps.

I tried to offer other ideas, and ways for you to get scrolls or money to buy them. It is not hard.
Just farming fan dancers you could make 500 mil+ a day.

As Popps accurately said before it's a major grind and an insult to anyone with any intelligence once they realize how much you're getting screwed doing scroll binders. You MIGHT get a 120 in a few years.

Second, how in the world do you make 500 mil in one day killing fan dancers? like literally 24 hours? this is also an insult.

Just face it, it's bs and we all know it.

I never said to get gold did i, re read what i posted. Farm fan dancers. Thats it.

You have to know whats wanted by people that have money.

There are people that make money buying and reselling regs and scrolls, Ingots, and the like.

Other people buy low and re-sell.

If you're upset because the only way YOU want to get something done doesnt work, and you believe every one else is cheating or lying, maybe YOU'RE the issue.

I tried to give examples of otherbways to make money. How about old school. Make shadow iron heater shields and sell back to a npc. They buy them for more.

Cookie · June 2020

ActionElly said:

As Popps accurately said before it's a major grind and an insult to anyone with any intelligence once they realize how much you're getting screwed doing scroll binders. You MIGHT get a 120 in a few years.

Ok, yesterday, I used about 50 scroll binders, and put together say another 5 x 120's. These things don't happen overnight, but they are part of the playstyle. This is just a nice little bonus along the way. So again, I don't believe scroll binders are useless, and I bought them off some crafter, who benefitted.

Norry, Xris, Merus, DrIndeth, yep, completely agreeing with your posts, that's how I see it, it's how anyone who actually goes out to play and experiences it see's it.

Merus · June 2020

ActionElly said:

Norry said:

You can buy 110's for 20-40k on atl.
Those are gotten most often.
If you play anywhere other than atl, you will not be pked doing tmaps.

I tried to offer other ideas, and ways for you to get scrolls or money to buy them. It is not hard.
Just farming fan dancers you could make 500 mil+ a day.

As Popps accurately said before it's a major grind and an insult to anyone with any intelligence once they realize how much you're getting screwed doing scroll binders. You MIGHT get a 120 in a few years.

Second, how in the world do you make 500 mil in one day killing fan dancers? like literally 24 hours? this is also an insult.

Just face it, it's bs and we all know it.

https://community.stratics.com/threads/buying-splinter-weapons-in-description.417057/

Fan dancers is a very popular location for these kinds of drops... and it's in .... wait for it...
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
TRAM... go figure.

Townie · June 2020

Merus said:

ActionElly said:

Norry said:

You can buy 110's for 20-40k on atl.
Those are gotten most often.
If you play anywhere other than atl, you will not be pked doing tmaps.

I tried to offer other ideas, and ways for you to get scrolls or money to buy them. It is not hard.
Just farming fan dancers you could make 500 mil+ a day.

As Popps accurately said before it's a major grind and an insult to anyone with any intelligence once they realize how much you're getting screwed doing scroll binders. You MIGHT get a 120 in a few years.

Second, how in the world do you make 500 mil in one day killing fan dancers? like literally 24 hours? this is also an insult.

Just face it, it's bs and we all know it.

https://community.stratics.com/threads/buying-splinter-weapons-in-description.417057/

Fan dancers is a very popular location for these kinds of drops... and it's in .... wait for it...
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
TRAM... go figure.

The problem is the majority of players don't know what mod's make an item desirable so they have no idea if something is worth looting. I often wonder how many good items don't ever get looted because of this the itemization in the game is way to complex for the casual player that doesn't understand min/maxing.

drindeth · June 2020

Pawain said:

drindeth said:

so if you lose 50% of the playerbase and get 20% to come back and "stay" because the shards are so populated now..... is that a net positive for the game? i know people to this day that still pay for accounts to keep houses in a game they most likely will never log into.

Where do you see 50% of the player base in Fel? And you say I fabricate numbers.

I saw many returning players come back and do a champ spawn only to be PKed over and over before they completed the spawn. Then they never returned. Reminds me of the good ole days... Wasted opportunity to get more players during the pandemic.

Time to change!

see.... a brick wall.

my numbers were made up as an example. you never gave me any numbers so i was talking about whatever site you got the information from not you...

im just trying to get you to realize just because pawain thinks it does not mean its what everyone wants and should be done immediatly. you get so defensive when someone does not agree with you 100%. its wierd dude.

and if someone quit because they went to fel and got pked.... that is sad for their character, mabey you should have talked them into how great tram is and that they would not get pked instead of just watching them get pked over and over until they quit. perhaps you should have taught them how to make gold in tram and buy the things they need like a normal person.

it all comes down to some ppl have fun in a sandbox pvp world some people dont and thats ok. the beuty of this game is you dont have to participate if you dont want. you can put a little effort into something else and still get the stuff from there. not every single thing in the game has to be attainable by every single player. it is ok to have to rely on other people for the things you cannot get yourself. thats part of an mmo.... but to just say "this should be in tram because we cant easily farm it uncontested" its a fine opinion i guess but in my mind its completely unreasonable

Merus · June 2020

Townie said:

Merus said:

ActionElly said:

Norry said:

You can buy 110's for 20-40k on atl.
Those are gotten most often.
If you play anywhere other than atl, you will not be pked doing tmaps.

I tried to offer other ideas, and ways for you to get scrolls or money to buy them. It is not hard.
Just farming fan dancers you could make 500 mil+ a day.

As Popps accurately said before it's a major grind and an insult to anyone with any intelligence once they realize how much you're getting screwed doing scroll binders. You MIGHT get a 120 in a few years.

Second, how in the world do you make 500 mil in one day killing fan dancers? like literally 24 hours? this is also an insult.

Just face it, it's bs and we all know it.

https://community.stratics.com/threads/buying-splinter-weapons-in-description.417057/

Fan dancers is a very popular location for these kinds of drops... and it's in .... wait for it...
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
TRAM... go figure.

The problem is the majority of players don't know what mod's make an item desirable so they have no idea if something is worth looting. I often wonder how many good items don't ever get looted because of this the itemization in the game is way to complex for the casual player that doesn't understand min/maxing.

Sounds like a personal problem.

Skett · June 2020

Just wondering

question to both sides
can you see any compromise
take a moment to think about what could help each other out some middle ground
This has been a hot topic many times

example only
maybe allow 110s in tram 115 from tmaps in fel
105 drop in mid level monsters both fel and tram

honestly I feel pet ps should have been added right out the gate with pet revamp and dropped all ps on both facets

Draike · June 2020

Just make lower level scroll bindable at the rate like armor refiniments or something like this, will keep the scrolls in fel and give better ratio to ppl treasure hunting those scrolls

Pawain · June 2020

drindeth said:
and if someone quit because they went to fel and got pked.... that is sad for their character.

Maybe you do not understand that thousands of People have stopped playing UO because some jerk forcibly extends their play style to them.

All we ask for is a switch. Let us fight Monsters in Fel without somebody harassing us.

But yall have to change the subject because you know that few people actually want un consensual PvP. Fact. No numbers needed.

Jepeth · June 2020

As the OP suggested I think pet scrolls in Trammel chests are the best compromise.

Our PVP friends seem to want to maintain the status quo. That's fine, they're trying to hang on to their gameplay style.

Our PVM friends are trying to make the case that the system doesn't work. And I mean -the system- here as in the gameplay mechanic around obtaining powerscrolls not the personal choice of playing in Felucca or not.

Expanding the pet training system by adding those scrolls either in Trammel chests or in some fun new mechanic does a few things:

It allows our PVP and champion spawn hunters to maintain their markets on player powerscrolls which I believe everyone agrees are more vital for player builds than pet builds.
Brings the market back down to more acceptable levels while still keeping them relatively rare.
Opens up more pet experimentation for seasoned tamers and lets new tamers play around a bit more as they work up their pets.

Draike · June 2020

Here is my taje on this thing and i am by no means an expert: each account can have 7 chars and each char at any given tine can have 6 120 skills but - a tamer can have what? 20+ animal in the stalls scrollables to 120? I think when then they redid taming, they should have redid the ratio the scrolls bind at. Thay would have brought better supply of scrolls at same demand, just my 2 cents.

KHAN · June 2020

Dino said:

I think it's wrong to limit the problem to PowerScrolls and PvP.
The question is always how much time you are willing to spend on things
you don't like to achieve your goals. When most of the mechanics were
developed in this game, the economy was still reasonably good. Nowadays,
any alternative to Champion Spawns is, in my opinion, an almost
unreasonable amount of time. I very much hope that the announced
expansion will change something in this direction. Otherwise, I'm afraid
that the servers will continue to empty and the lights will go out at 
some point.

@Dino What announced expansion? Did I miss an announcement?

drindeth · June 2020

Pawain said:

drindeth said:
and if someone quit because they went to fel and got pked.... that is sad for their character.

Maybe you do not understand that thousands of People have stopped playing UO because some jerk forcibly extends their play style to them.

All we ask for is a switch. Let us fight Monsters in Fel without somebody harassing us.

But yall have to change the subject because you know that few people actually want un consensual PvP. Fact. No numbers needed.

i mean there is a trammel.... u can kill monsters in tram without contention. but you have your blinders on you see your point of view and nobody elses. "we the 4 people on the forums who complain about felluca constantly" all you are advocating for is to take the last reason to go to felluca away and i think that is a bad idea for the game as a whole. pvpers and pvmers.

there has to be a better reason than just "i cant farm it without people killing me" thats rediculous

and you are the only one who keeps bringing up numbers...... thousands guy? really? plz.

Pawain · June 2020

Nobody says to take powerscrolls out of Fel. Just add consensual PvP. You can kill each other since you think that is popular. Will be a lot more challenging than killing a tamer that is not built for PvP.

TimSt · June 2020

How about a compromise? A few Trammel rule set shards where you can't transfer to or from. The Fel facet still has champ spawns that drop 120 scrolls but there is no PvP to worry about.

Personally I would jump to one of those shards immediately like I did when Trammel was created.

drindeth · June 2020

Pawain said:

Nobody says to take powerscrolls out of Fel. Just add consensual PvP. You can kill each other since you think that is popular. Will be a lot more challenging than killing a tamer that is not built for PvP.

trammel IS your toggle for consensual pvp. why the hell would they let you toggle pvp on and off in the only facet that even allows pvp? what sense does that even make. im quickly learning this game has a huge snowflake problem. amoung other things.

Cookie · June 2020

TimSt said:

How about a compromise? A few Trammel rule set shards where you can't transfer to or from. The Fel facet still has champ spawns that drop 120 scrolls but there is no PvP to worry about.

Personally I would jump to one of those shards immediately like I did when Trammel was created.

This used to be my idea, you will see many of my posts in the past trying to go for this - although I think you wrote this incorrectly? No PvP? The Felucca facet would have everything, PvM, PvP, Crafting, the entire gameplay, that's the point, complete balance and interlinking gameplay.

Everyone I know, is only going one place

You wouldn't even notice or miss the rest.

Name the 2 busiest shards? Name which 2 shards the pvpers are on... Oh, coincidence or not?

popps · June 2020

drindeth said:

If there was no trammel, the game would have ended in 2004.

you understand this game rose to popularity without trammel yes? you understand that this game hemoraged players with the advent of age of shadows yes? you can like what you like but dont let your personal bias blind you to the facts.

im not sure you can actually find sub numbers for the time frame. but i personally know of entire pvp guilds that quit the days and weeks after age of shadows. this wasnt an isolated incident there was a sharp decline on most servers

@drindeth

Check this out .......... https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaphKoster/20180627/320893/A_brief_history_of_murder_in_Ultima_Online.php

Trammeling players
By 2000, I was off the project, working instead on a series of pitches for new MMOs that Origin might make. And while I was doing that, the team’s new design leadership arrived at a new solution that put paid to the early wild and crazy era of UO forever: the Trammel/Felucca split.Simply put, the map was cloned. One side was termed Felucca, and had the same rules that already existed.The other was called Trammel, and in Trammel, there simply wasn’t any ability to attack other players. It was a peaceful place.To this day, this is controversial. I wouldn’t have done it, personally, but there is no question that the userbase doubled once this went in.

Please, note where it is mentioned ".....but there is no question that the userbase doubled once this went in......"

So, like it or not, to my understanding, it is a FACT that the creation of Trammel helped Ultima Online to stay alive and thrive, because player killing was alienating players to play the game and, thus, severely endangering Ultima Online's ability to gather resources through subscriptions to pay for the necessary upkeep and enhancements.

Trammel was most likely, to my opinion, the very best thing to happen to Ultima Online and if it was not for it, UO would have ceased to exist long ago, since player killing drives more players away from playing the game, as it might attract players to the game....

Unfortunately, that I have seen, no Developer so far has been able to find really effective ways and mechanics to contain players' killing in ways other then having a facet like Trammel to exist...

Personally, I blame it to the fact that cheating, hacking and the use of Third Party programs in PvP was not aggressively countered from early on..... perhaps, had we seen effective ways to track down all cheating in UO and ban those accounts and those other account benefitting from the cheating accounts, PvP in UO could have been more tolerable and manageable....

Not getting rid for good of Ghost and Hidden EJs Cams is also something else which has highly controbuted, to my opinion, to keep Felucca facets and spaws oretty much void of players....

At least, that is how I see it.

Cookie · June 2020

Popps, we have seen that so many times, it's so factually incorrect it's really boring, please stop rolling it out all the time. There were so many other external factors at that exact point in time. UO was growing massively, just because of it's prior reputation, the fact Trammel came in at the same time, was coincidence. This is the problem with Theory-crafters like yourself, you were never there to see it, witness it, feel it, understand it.

What is really really obvious to everyone, is if you create Easymode and Hardmode, and give Easymode absolutely everything, the whole playerbase is going to go to Easymode - it had nothing to do with PvP! All PvPers are, are enhanced AI - that is the only way you need to see them, you can dehumanise them. Easymode is what ruined the game completely, and everyones failure to see this. It's very much like saying to a working age population - you can work for your money, or just be given it all via benefits - absolutely no penalty. 80% of people, would chose to receive the benefits and not work. But it would destroy the society in terms of progression, and mental attitude. They would be so weak minded. The comparison is so obvious, you lot astound me with your blindness and ignorance.

Now if they had separated Easymode, and Hardmode, this may have been ok, to be fair to them, they could not have envisioned this 20 years ago how this would go. But they maintained a link between the modes, and allowed everyone to farm the hell out of Easymode, and use it all to destroy the quality of Hardmode.

They needed to have the guts to stick with their original vision.

TimSt · June 2020

Cookie said:

TimSt said:

How about a compromise? A few Trammel rule set shards where you can't transfer to or from. The Fel facet still has champ spawns that drop 120 scrolls but there is no PvP to worry about.

Personally I would jump to one of those shards immediately like I did when Trammel was created.

This used to be my idea, you will see many of my posts in the past trying to go for this - although I think you wrote this incorrectly? No PvP? The Felucca facet would have everything, PvM, PvP, Crafting, the entire gameplay, that's the point, complete balance and interlinking gameplay.
Everyone I know, is only going one place
You wouldn't even notice or miss the rest.
Name the 2 busiest shards? Name which 2 shards the pvpers are on... Oh, coincidence or not?

I wrote it correctly: No PvP in the entire shard. Since I run away when ever any one tries to PvP me if I jump to a No PvP shard the PvPers would not miss me.

Cookie · June 2020

TimSt said:

Cookie said:

TimSt said:

How about a compromise? A few Trammel rule set shards where you can't transfer to or from. The Fel facet still has champ spawns that drop 120 scrolls but there is no PvP to worry about.

Personally I would jump to one of those shards immediately like I did when Trammel was created.

This used to be my idea, you will see many of my posts in the past trying to go for this - although I think you wrote this incorrectly? No PvP? The Felucca facet would have everything, PvM, PvP, Crafting, the entire gameplay, that's the point, complete balance and interlinking gameplay.
Everyone I know, is only going one place
You wouldn't even notice or miss the rest.
Name the 2 busiest shards? Name which 2 shards the pvpers are on... Oh, coincidence or not?

I wrote it correctly: No PvP in the entire shard. Since I run away when ever any one tries to PvP me if I jump to a No PvP shard the PvPers would not miss me.

I know what you meant Tim, but your sentence lead to the opposite interpretation.

"The Fel facet still has champ spawns that drop 120 scrolls but there is no PvP to worry about."

So for the record, yes, I would be ok with your intended concept. A complete Trammel facet or facets that cannot interact with Felucca, and complete Felucca facets with the entire gaming map, under the current gameplay rules.

The_Higgs_1 · June 2020

Whats always funny about these conversations is, the tram side complains about the cheating and scripting in pvp and wants the stuff put in trammel for them. Here's what happens once a static position for something is put in trammel, its scripted non stop til it has no value. Who does this scripting you'll ask, 99% of all trammel players in UO. Trammel is the reason scripting and cheating in UO exists. Now that you heard the real truth, go change your dirty diapers and farm your scrolls or gold. *drops mic*

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Pet only powerscrolls

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Trammeling players