Pub 108 - House Decay Rules Feedback

popps · March 2020

Dragonheart said:

I make my post with the following observation.

The main reason the Devs are even considering this change is because of all the open and blatant scripting involved around the IDOC profession.

with that said. Ill leave @ Kyronix @ Bleak and @ Mesanna with the following reason this will fail at fixing the above problem.

1. Scripters will still be able to loot faster than anyone else. They will be able to empty their packs faster than anyone and will always have that advantage.

2. Scripters will still run shards and find these idocs before anyone. This gives them a strategic advantage in that they will place loot houses up with containers to unload in to.

3. Scripters will still be able to place houses faster than anyone. This is the second half of the idoc profession. Placing and selling quality homes.

4. Scripters will still log in with multiple accounts and afk loot these houses.

With that said i offer up the following advice.

1. How about instead of completely revamping a system that has been apart of UO culture for more than 2 decades you actually fix the problem. Scripters.

If you do have to make a significant change to idocs please do one that negates scripters.

1. Instead of this ridiculous barrel system how about you spawn monsters similar to thunts. something that will easily kill afk scripters or at the very least make it very difficult for them. Something with AOE, lots of them in fact. Something that reveals hidden stealthed toons. And please make the monsters stay in the area so they cant be lured away by one toon so others can loot.

2. These monsters could even hold some of the loot if not all and the corpses could act like normal. no looting rights no loot.

3. Monsters at least make this system challenging instead of a free loot for everyone.

4. If you are going to give players the locations to these idocs how about you give it to them in a similar menu system like you did for the castle/keep designs on test. Also make it so they appear on the list as soon as they are like new so scripters have no advantage in finding them first and placing loot houses.

5. Getting rid of stackable items will only give way to more scripting. If the amount of stackables/resources diminish then the resource bots will crank up again. starting a whole other thread for people to complain in.

Positives:

1. I like the theory of getting rid of account bound items however id make it one more step. For returning players if they could purchase those items back you could make some extra money.

2. 5 10 15 going away. One of the biggest mesanna mistakes ever.

3. As much as i absolutely despise the system i can say you did a good job doing it.

4. the house timer on the sign is incredible, no more camping an idoc for 15 hours or more because you didnt get an approximate time.

5. ej accounts not being allowed in. take it a step further and dont let ej accounts have pack animals.

Past all of that even if you stubbornly barrel through this like you often do. (see what i did there? barrel. get it?) PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE leave fel idocs and seige idocs alone. they are fine like they are and do not have a problem like the trammel idocs.

A few observations....

1. Scripters will still be able to loot faster than anyone else. They will be able to empty their packs faster than anyone and will always have that advantage.

That should not necessarily hold true.

If the Developers tag any and all items coming from an IDOC with a TIMER that makes it flat out impossible to drop that item for that timer's time either on a EJ character or on a packie, then it would be necessary for a character to unload at bank, at a House or into a Ship's Hold like everyone else.

Furthermore, the Developers could block the Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney ability of a character who was detected in the IDOC area, ONLY to 1 Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney OUT of the IDOC Area to unload. After having recalled OUT of the IDOC Area to unload, then their ability to Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney ANYWHERE in the UO World would be blocked for X time.

Public Gates could still be used.

This, I think, would somewhat reduce the ability of a scripter to control multiple characters and wipe clean an IDOC through scripts....

If they cannot unload into EJ or pack animals backpacks, and if they have to wait a downtime before fastly going back to the IDOC area, there is only "so many" items which they could get thus giving time to all of the other players in the area to get something from the IDOC....

Sure, scripted unloading at a Bank/Home could still be faster as doing it manually but, if there will be a downtime to have to wait to Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney back to the IDOC, this would tone down the ability of Scripters to wipe clean an IDOC, especially if they would be barred from being able to download the items onto EJ/Pack Animals backpacks left at the margins of the IDOC Area....

2. Scripters will still run shards and find these idocs before anyone. This gives them a strategic advantage in that they will place loot houses up with containers to unload in to.

Placing a Loot House will still need a subscribed account, which it means money for the upkeep of Ultima Online so, I do not see that as necessarily a bad thing.

Considering then that IDOCs locations vary, how many will want to pay a FULL month subscription just to place a Loot House nearby, assuming that there is space available for one ?

And what if the loot from that IDOC is nothing of value ?

That Loot House 1st month subscription would have been just wasted....

Personally, I do not see this as "that" of a problem and even if it was, at least Ultima Online would be getting money from these "Loot Houses" 1st Month of subscription....

Besides, Broadsword could then "Monitor" all these accounts popping up and down only for 1 Month just to place Loot Houses, and go from there to find out where those Account are doing in UO anything that is against the TOS....

3. Scripters will still be able to place houses faster than anyone. This is the second half of the idoc profession. Placing and selling quality homes.

On that I have nothing to say. Apparently, the proposed changes do not seem to address, at least that I can see, the ability of Scripters to place a House faster then other players doing it manually.

Surely, something needs to be done here too, to prevent Scripters from having such an advantage in placing Homes in UO.

4. Scripters will still log in with multiple accounts and afk loot these houses.

See my suggestions RE: # 1.

If all items from an IDOC get a timer that makes it impossible to drop these items on either EJ or Pack Animals Backpacks, and Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney is limited to only 1 getting OUT of the IDOC Area to Unload at Bank/House or to a Ship's Hold, but then for that Character which was an the IDOC the ability to Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney ANYWHERE in the UO World is blocked for the entire duration of a downtime Timer, I suppose that these mechanics should pretty much hinder the ability of Scripters to use multiple character to wipe clean an IDOC with multiple characters...

At the very least, they should greatly reduce scripters ability to wipe clean an IDOC using multiple characters....

@Bleak , @Kyronix , do you find any of these suggestions as agreeable with ?

Also, I agree with @Chrille , Barrels is the number one thing that will help anyone to get some loot IF the Developers will implemenet some more mechanics like those I have suggested here to MAKE SURE that scripters would be severely limited to use multiple scripted characters to fastly wipe clean an IDOC....

Otherwise, scripters, as it has been pointed out, without items being hidden inside of the Barrels, would simply just keep looting all the nicest items instantly (More complex and Elaborated Scripts CAN pin point this or that item, if wanted...), and I agree that Monsters would not stop the looting scripts as we well know that many Spawns in Ultima Online, even quite dangerous, are infact 24/7 Scripted, sometimes, to farm items there....

I should also point out one more thing.

Stackables and Resources should NOT get deleted.

One thing that I LOVE to get from IDOCs is precisely Resources and Crafting Materials.

They can well be split up in smaller, less heavy quantities so as to benefit more players, and even be automatically converted into DEED form.

I frankly do not see the need to have stackable Resources and Materials to be deleted outright from an IDOC....

Dragonheart · March 2020

popps said:

A few observations....
1. Scripters will still be able to loot faster than anyone else. They will be able to empty their packs faster than anyone and will always have that advantage.
That should not necessarily hold true.

If the Developers tag any and all items coming from an IDOC with a TIMER that makes it flat out impossible to drop that item for that timer's time either on a EJ character or on a packie, then it would be necessary for a character to unload at bank, at a House or into a Ship's Hold like everyone else.

Furthermore, the Developers could block the Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney ability of a character who was detected in the IDOC area, ONLY to 1 Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney OUT of the IDOC Area to unload. After having recalled OUT of the IDOC Area to unload, then their ability to Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney ANYWHERE in the UO World would be blocked for X time.

Public Gates could still be used.

This, I think, would somewhat reduce the ability of a scripter to control multiple characters and wipe clean an IDOC through scripts....

If they cannot unload into EJ or pack animals backpacks, and if they have to wait a downtime before fastly going back to the IDOC area, there is only "so many" items which they could get thus giving time to all of the other players in the area to get something from the IDOC....

Sure, scripted unloading at a Bank/Home could still be faster as doing it manually but, if there will be a downtime to have to wait to Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney back to the IDOC, this would tone down the ability of Scripters to wipe clean an IDOC, especially if they would be barred from being able to download the items onto EJ/Pack Animals backpacks left at the margins of the IDOC Area....
2. Scripters will still run shards and find these idocs before anyone. This gives them a strategic advantage in that they will place loot houses up with containers to unload in to.
Placing a Loot House will still need a subscribed account, which it means money for the upkeep of Ultima Online so, I do not see that as necessarily a bad thing.

Considering then that IDOCs locations vary, how many will want to pay a FULL month subscription just to place a Loot House nearby, assuming that there is space available for one ?

And what if the loot from that IDOC is nothing of value ?

That Loot House 1st month subscription would have been just wasted....

Personally, I do not see this as "that" of a problem and even if it was, at least Ultima Online would be getting money from these "Loot Houses" 1st Month of subscription....

Besides, Broadsword could then "Monitor" all these accounts popping up and down only for 1 Month just to place Loot Houses, and go from there to find out where those Account are doing in UO anything that is against the TOS....
3. Scripters will still be able to place houses faster than anyone. This is the second half of the idoc profession. Placing and selling quality homes.
On that I have nothing to say. Apparently, the proposed changes do not seem to address, at least that I can see, the ability of Scripters to place a House faster then other players doing it manually.

Surely, something needs to be done here too, to prevent Scripters from having such an advantage in placing Homes in UO.
4. Scripters will still log in with multiple accounts and afk loot these houses.
See my suggestions RE: # 1.

If all items from an IDOC get a timer that makes it impossible to drop these items on either EJ or Pack Animals Backpacks, and Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney is limited to only 1 getting OUT of the IDOC Area to Unload at Bank/House or to a Ship's Hold, but then for that Character which was an the IDOC the ability to Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney ANYWHERE in the UO World is blocked for the entire duration of a downtime Timer, I suppose that these mechanics should pretty much hinder the ability of Scripters to use multiple character to wipe clean an IDOC with multiple characters...

At the very least, they should greatly reduce scripters ability to wipe clean an IDOC using multiple characters....

@ Bleak , @ Kyronix , do you find any of these suggestions as agreeable with ?

Also, I agree with @ Chrille , Barrels is the number one thing that will help anyone to get some loot IF the Developers will implemenet some more mechanics like those I have suggested here to MAKE SURE that scripters would be severely limited to use multiple scripted characters to fastly wipe clean an IDOC....

Otherwise, scripters, as it has been pointed out, without items being hidden inside of the Barrels, would simply just keep looting all the nicest items instantly (More complex and Elaborated Scripts CAN pin point this or that item, if wanted...), and I agree that Monsters would not stop the looting scripts as we well know that many Spawns in Ultima Online, even quite dangerous, are infact 24/7 Scripted, sometimes, to farm items there....

One thing that I LOVE to get from IDOCs is precisely Resources and Crafting Materials.
I should also point out one more thing.

Stackables and Resources should NOT get deleted.
They can well be split up in smaller, less heavy quantities so as to benefit more players, and even be automatically converted into DEED form.

I frankly do not see the need to have stackable Resources and Materials to be deleted outright from an IDOC....

"""""That should not necessarily hold true.

If the Developers tag any and all items coming from an IDOC with a TIMER that makes it flat out impossible to drop that item for that timer's time either on a EJ character or on a packie, then it would be necessary for a character to unload at bank, at a House or into a Ship's Hold like everyone else.

Furthermore, the Developers could block the Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney ability of a character who was detected in the IDOC area, ONLY to 1 Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney OUT of the IDOC Area to unload. After having recalled OUT of the IDOC Area to unload, then their ability to Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney ANYWHERE in the UO World would be blocked for X time.

Public Gates could still be used.

This, I think, would somewhat reduce the ability of a scripter to control multiple characters and wipe clean an IDOC through scripts....

If they cannot unload into EJ or pack animals backpacks, and if they have to wait a downtime before fastly going back to the IDOC area, there is only "so many" items which they could get thus giving time to all of the other players in the area to get something from the IDOC....

Sure, scripted unloading at a Bank/Home could still be faster as doing it manually but, if there will be a downtime to have to wait to Recall/Gate/Sacred Jorney back to the IDOC, this would tone down the ability of Scripters to wipe clean an IDOC, especially if they would be barred from being able to download the items onto EJ/Pack Animals backpacks left at the margins of the IDOC Area....""""

Almost all of your responses are assuming the devs actually change something from the status quo of test center. There are lot of "if" and "could" in this the first response.

Scripters can instantly unload their entire backpack into any container. In example, a container in a loot house, pack horse, beetle etc. so while you are trying to unload 50 items scattered in your pack they are already back at another barrel.

"""""
Placing a Loot House will still need a subscribed account, which it means money for the upkeep of Ultima Online so, I do not see that as necessarily a bad thing.

Considering then that IDOCs locations vary, how many will want to pay a FULL month subscription just to place a Loot House nearby, assuming that there is space available for one ?

And what if the loot from that IDOC is nothing of value ?

That Loot House 1st month subscription would have been just wasted....

Personally, I do not see this as "that" of a problem and even if it was, at least Ultima Online would be getting money from these "Loot Houses" 1st Month of subscription....

Besides, Broadsword could then "Monitor" all these accounts popping up and down only for 1 Month just to place Loot Houses, and go from there to find out where those Account are doing in UO anything that is against the TOS....""""""

1. scripters can place multiple houses with one account using a bug.

2. its about volume for these guys. they are going to 100s of idocs a month. So your argument about going to a house and getting nothing is moot. Also lets not forget they are afk doing this. there is no time wasted for them.

3. broadsword monitoring anything is the problem. if they monitored idoc scripters we wouldnt be having this problem in the first place.

I agree the stackables and resources shouldnt be deleted. Im assuming the reason for this is a coding issue with moving stackables from one place to another. If thats the case perhaps the stackables could just fall to the ground instead?

Overall I believe your suggestions would definitely make this system better however i just dont see the devs pulling it off. if they implemented your ideas i would definitely feel a lot better about this system.

Dragonheart · March 2020

Chrille said:

Loot get split up to thoose who get looting rigths on barrels it doesnt go to the one that does most damage. You dont need much to be able to compete with the most specifed templates for bashing barrels. Lvl 1 wrestling primer and tac and ana and some di on suite, and you will get looting rights even if competing with the toughest character.

Yes having the timer public will make it easier for everyone so the script user will have much more competition and isnt that the point with redoing the idocs to give everyone a better chance to get some nice stuff.

Harbringers was released before the house drop while people was waiting now with known timers you dont have to be there before. Dodge a monster or 20 will be equally hard for everyone except the scripts can pick up items while dodging and they will get the best items first, even if they die the stuff is already on their corpses and they will get them back.

I read that you wrote that the monster can even have some loot on there corpses missed the part of all but then you're back with your problem at killing barrels only the top damager will get loot from monster so I dont see what difference this will make? Except if you have some strange idea that scripts cant kill monsters.

"Yes having the timer public will make it easier for everyone so the script user will have much more competition and isnt that the point with redoing the idocs to give everyone a better chance to get some nice stuff."

No that is not the point. The point is to rid scripters of doing idocs. That is why were are doing this in the first place. And my point to that is that this entire thing doesnt do that. They will still be there afk farming idocs and doing it much better than everyone else.

"Harbringers was released before the house drop while people was waiting now with known timers you dont have to be there before. Dodge a monster or 20 will be equally hard for everyone except the scripts can pick up items while dodging and they will get the best items first, even if they die the stuff is already on their corpses and they will get them back."

you cant pick up stuff if you are dead. Intense monsters will at the very least force scripters to have a developed, skilled, suited toon making it that much harder to have 10 plus accounts there. as of now they can come on a completely noob toon and loot no problem.
Also, im recommending something worse than harbingers. something with a lot more aoe and multiple monsters. not just one but in the 10s and 20s.

"I read that you wrote that the monster can even have some loot on there corpses missed the part of all but then you're back with your problem at killing barrels only the top damager will get loot from monster so I dont see what difference this will make? Except if you have some strange idea that scripts cant kill monsters."

you try and suit up 10 accounts on every shard with arties, jewels, suits, weapons etc. if you were going to do 20 shards of idocs like the pro idocers are doing now thats 200 toons. This would give the locals on their home shard a very big advantage over cross sharders with limited gear.

Chrille · March 2020

Dargonheart you wrote this

"you do know barrel work like monster loot right? as in the person that does the most dmg wins? you think you are going to compete with a bunch of pros with multiple accounts?"

Then you wrote this

"you try and suit up 10 accounts on every shard with arties, jewels, suits, weapons etc. if you were going to do 20 shards of idocs like the pro idocers are doing now thats 200 toons. This would give the locals on their home shard a very big advantage over cross sharders with limited gear."

So what way is it? Will they beat me all the time or have problems getting a suite together?

Polaris · March 2020

A few ideas I tossed around somewhere.... spawn guardians out of the barrels that auto-reveal, over and over autoreveal / poison / magery. They have to be lethal though.... enough lethal that it's going to get the auto-cure, auto-heal, auto-hiding, auto-stealth bots. Lethal enough to get any bots (in some sort of imaginative way... maybe paralyzes after auto-reveal like the rogue does in Blackthorn dungeon / although he doesn't auto reveal,) but enough too that normal players will likely be able to hide/stealth and continue looting.

And as for your #2, I wish house placement would be blocked for 30 tiles around any decaying house. Those guys will find houses before everyone, a bot named (dunno if I can say that) was running the world yesterday by my house again. He does so every day.... I thought about paging on him but figured why bother, it was already late at night. If they blocked house placement around decaying houses, it would definitely kill a HUGE chunk of scripting from what I have saw. Someone could still re-customize their house, that should not be a problem. Someone argued this would hinder others in "Luna" or other congested areas from being able to place or something. If one IDOC hits decay stage, and nobody can place tiny houses around it..... there should be no other house that hit IDOC before it, right?

A way to fix that anyway if so.... have a raffle system for houses instead of letting script placers do it after IDOCs. I would like a shot at a Luna house or a keep/castle on Atlantic as well... that idea sounds amazing.

Polaris · March 2020

Chrille said:

Loot get split up to thoose who get looting rigths on barrels it doesnt go to the one that does most damage. You dont need much to be able to compete with the most specifed templates for bashing barrels. Lvl 1 wrestling primer and tac and ana and some di on suite, and you will get looting rights even if competing with the toughest character.

But can those guys still hit 7 different barrels each to 80% and get loot from all 7? That is the question..... as I understand it, that was happening. Some people were saying you could just slightly damage 7 or 10 different barrels, and go back home while letting your backpack fill up in your house (as long as not crossing a server line.)

I think all damage should be equal, and spawn monsters that can target unattended players. Make players show up at least. But then again... we are back to having to be able to fight....... which means we need our weapons / magery / hiding / stealth and not wrestling w/ 100% DI suits, with horrific beast cast.... just saying. I honestly hope they have changed that... I have my wrestling primer and 120 anatomy/tactics already in case....... (will have to delete my fencer I never use sadly and have 2 IDOC characters.) This will ensure that I never PvP ever though, as that is what my fencer char was building for...... If these changes go through with Horrific Beast cast though, I would never ever put a video of an IDOC up for anyone to see again, as it would make UO look laughable. Giant blue beasts fight inside barrels..... : / The idea is great except for the wrestling and giant blue beast form. I like a game to feel real, is my reasoning. That's why I quit playing WoW was people riding around on motorcycles and rockets.... way too cartoony.

JollyJade · March 2020

Uriah_Heep said:

History says when it hits TC, its pretty much done...

Prolly gonna quit this shit show before they bring it to prodo... but yea spot on.....

Town cryer will tell you "too vaque" if there are more than 3 IDOCs on a server....

Quality content as always. @Mariah will take care of all unpopular feedback as usual and everyone will be happy

Nobody will ever fix bugs... not even answer questions about it... everybody will love it... if you believe the narrative on this forum xD

Mesanna will ban the very known top 3 of IDOC multiboxer.... just like she rides a pink unicorn into office....

But welp.. who cares... not the devs for sure... thank god I had some good times with the classic content.

The new stuff is grindy rubbish anyway and yall know it lol. The whole team is rubbish.. ooops @Mariah

Mariah · March 2020

JollyJade said:

Uriah_Heep said:

History says when it hits TC, its pretty much done...

Prolly gonna quit this shit show before they bring it to prodo... but yea spot on.....

Town cryer will tell you "too vaque" if there are more than 3 IDOCs on a server....

Quality content as always. @ Mariah will take care of all unpopular feedback as usual and everyone will be happy

Negative feed back can be, and demonstrably has been, posted provided it remains neutral without personal attacks on others.

Posts that attack players or developers are in breach of rule one of the terms of service and will be removed.

JollyJade · March 2020

bla bla bla... can't even ask a question without you bullying me... not worth the time... mind answering all the open questions from the PMs? No? Ok....

Mariah · March 2020

I answer all your questions to the best of my ability, some questions I don't know the answers to, and have said so - but what's the point in answering you, you don't believe a word I type anyway?

KHAN · March 2020

Let's address the "elephant in the room".

Why won't @Mesanna @Kyronix @Bleak simply BAN THE CHEATER/SCRIPTERS/RMT PLAYERS????????

Instead of wasting their valuable time trying to find "work arounds" for the actions that violate the UO ToS why not just get rid of them, AND those who buy the gold/items from them. They can then spend their time being proactive on content that is beneficial to everyone. Rather than just being reactive to the cheaters.

EVERYONE knows who they are. Is it the fact they are SOME (I am NOT saying all) of the (WITHOUT mentioning any names of course) well known "rares collectors", "realtors", and "brokers". Some of them SAY they are "helping people", but the reality is, THEY are reason the game is in the state it is in. There are various sites that show them offering gold, and other items for sale for real $$$. WITH THE SAME CONTACT INFORMATION AS THEY POST IN GAME, ON STRATICS,, AND ON THE OFFICIAL FORUM!!!!!! One of them tried to justify it to me by telling me that he felt bad about spending so much time in the game "helping others". that he used the $$$ he got to take his wife and kids out to eat, and to a movie!

For those of you who say "the game will fold if they ban the cheaters" I say tough ****. It would be better to have the game die out with SOME SORT of integrity than to allow it to continue down the path it is on now. More and more "honest" players are leaving every day. LET THIS SINK IN: Where do you think all of the IDOCS come from in the first place??? The CHEATERS aren't quitting the game, the HONEST players are!! As much as I love UO, and don't want it to die out, allowing the cheaters/multiboxxers/RMT people to continue to run rampant, is a slap in the face to the honest players!

Make it easy, just ban the cheaters, and let's work to making UO great again!!!

JollyJade · March 2020

Cause its all cookie cutter and you can never cite any actual violation. If thats your best, god bless you.

Uriah_Heep · March 2020

KHAN said:

Let's address the "elephant in the room".

Why won't @ Mesanna @ Kyronix @ Bleak simply BAN THE CHEATER/SCRIPTERS/RMT PLAYERS????????

Instead of wasting their valuable time trying to find "work arounds" for the actions that violate the UO ToS why not just get rid of them, AND those who buy the gold/items from them. They can then spend their time being proactive on content that is beneficial to everyone. Rather than just being reactive to the cheaters.

EVERYONE knows who they are. Is it the fact they are SOME (I am NOT saying all) of the (WITHOUT mentioning any names of course) well known "rares collectors", "realtors", and "brokers". Some of them SAY they are "helping people", but the reality is, THEY are reason the game is in the state it is in. There are various sites that show them offering gold, and other items for sale for real $$$. WITH THE SAME CONTACT INFORMATION AS THEY POST IN GAME, ON STRATICS,, AND ON THE OFFICIAL FORUM!!!!!! One of them tried to justify it to me by telling me that he felt bad about spending so much time in the game "helping others". that he used the $$$ he got to take his wife and kids out to eat, and to a movie!

For those of you who say "the game will fold if they ban the cheaters" I say tough ****. It would be better to have the game die out with SOME SORT of integrity than to allow it to continue down the path it is on now. More and more "honest" players are leaving every day. LET THIS SINK IN: Where do you think all of the IDOCS come from in the first place??? As much as I love UO, and don't want it to die out, allowing the cheaters/multiboxxers/RMT people to continue to run rampant, is a slap in the face to the honest players!

Make it easy, just ban the cheaters, and let's work to making UO great again!!!

The elephant in the room is what most people wanted addressed, but...

Just like asking for a bump in the loot to tmaps got us that pile of horse dung they call mapping now, asking for the cheaters to be banned is getting IDOCs a complete redo-not gonna ban the cheaters, just do a lot of busy work to make it look like something is happening.

Who has dirt on who? Something just ain't right here, it stinks worse than the pile it has become.

Let houses fall, let people loot. Just toss out the scripters and boxers...

The announcement of when and where is fine, it's all the rigamarole that everything created nowdays seems to become that is the problem. Taking a fun thing, turning it into a drawn out mess is crazy tho.

Hope someone gets to see this before it, too, poofs.

Cheers!

Dragonheart · March 2020

Chrille said:

Dargonheart you wrote this

"you do know barrel work like monster loot right? as in the person that does the most dmg wins? you think you are going to compete with a bunch of pros with multiple accounts?"

Then you wrote this

"you try and suit up 10 accounts on every shard with arties, jewels, suits, weapons etc. if you were going to do 20 shards of idocs like the pro idocers are doing now thats 200 toons. This would give the locals on their home shard a very big advantage over cross sharders with limited gear."

So what way is it? Will they beat me all the time or have problems getting a suite together?

With your way they wont have to suit up or skill up to beat you. My way they will have to suit up and skill up to beat you.

Chrille · March 2020

You've missed something, I want that skills make a difference. I tested to destroy barrells as quick as possible and with skill and suite its down to 15 seconds compared to unskilled where it takes 3 minutes. So Im not sure how I would miss to beat the unskilled scripter when i destroy the barrels 12 times faster.

TimSt · March 2020

Chrille said:

You've missed something, I want that skills make a difference. I tested to destroy barrells as quick as possible and with skill and suite its down to 15 seconds compared to unskilled where it takes 3 minutes. So Im not sure how I would miss to beat the unskilled scripter when i destroy the barrels 12 times faster.

Except the scripters will also be fully skilled up. And because their reaction times are faster then yours they can find a barrel, punch it, and unload faster then you can.

Dragonheart · March 2020

Chrille said:

You've missed something, I want that skills make a difference. I tested to destroy barrells as quick as possible and with skill and suite its down to 15 seconds compared to unskilled where it takes 3 minutes. So Im not sure how I would miss to beat the unskilled scripter when i destroy the barrels 12 times faster.

1. how fast can you unloot 50 random items in your pack? because scripters can do it in 1 second.

2. skilling up to kill a barrel vs skilling up to defeat monsters are two different things. i can make a barrel killer in about 6 hours. a monster killer would take a lot more skills.

3. you dont really need a suit to kill barrels. some swing speed and hit chance and str is all you need.

There is a big difference in the type of toon/suit you need to kill a barrel that doesnt fight back vs killing a Monster with instense aoe etc.

Furthermore the script needed to kill monsters and loot vs one that simply attacks a barrel and unloots is very severe.

Rafman · March 2020

KHAN said:

Let's address the "elephant in the room".

Why won't @ Mesanna @ Kyronix @ Bleak simply BAN THE CHEATER/SCRIPTERS/RMT PLAYERS????????

Instead of wasting their valuable time trying to find "work arounds" for the actions that violate the UO ToS why not just get rid of them, AND those who buy the gold/items from them. They can then spend their time being proactive on content that is beneficial to everyone. Rather than just being reactive to the cheaters.

EVERYONE knows who they are. Is it the fact they are SOME (I am NOT saying all) of the (WITHOUT mentioning any names of course) well known "rares collectors", "realtors", and "brokers". Some of them SAY they are "helping people", but the reality is, THEY are reason the game is in the state it is in. There are various sites that show them offering gold, and other items for sale for real $$$. WITH THE SAME CONTACT INFORMATION AS THEY POST IN GAME, ON STRATICS,, AND ON THE OFFICIAL FORUM!!!!!! One of them tried to justify it to me by telling me that he felt bad about spending so much time in the game "helping others". that he used the $$$ he got to take his wife and kids out to eat, and to a movie!

For those of you who say "the game will fold if they ban the cheaters" I say tough ****. It would be better to have the game die out with SOME SORT of integrity than to allow it to continue down the path it is on now. More and more "honest" players are leaving every day. LET THIS SINK IN: Where do you think all of the IDOCS come from in the first place??? The CHEATERS aren't quitting the game, the HONEST players are!! As much as I love UO, and don't want it to die out, allowing the cheaters/multiboxxers/RMT people to continue to run rampant, is a slap in the face to the honest players!

Make it easy, just ban the cheaters, and let's work to making UO great again!!!

I responded to you in the other forum and you ignored me. I expect you'll do the same here. But here goes.

Why don't they just ban all scripters/cheaters as a solution? Let me answer you.

I'll set the scene. We're on Atlantic shard. There's an IDOC - inside luna. As you can imagine, we have ~200 people there. Mesanna just read your post and she fully agrees with you, let's ban all cheaters. As such - she gives you GM power for the days. You can ban anyone whose cheating - obvious caveat is, you have to make sure they're cheating before you ban them. So we're at this idoc - there's ~200 characters present - you're the GM with the ban-hammer power - 1...2...3... GO!

Start. Explain to us in detail how you proceed.

Remember also - unless you come from the planet Mars and own some sort of alienware PC - even as a GM you probably have to deal with a lot of lag at such a crowded idoc.

So go. Explain how you proceed to ban the cheaters. Which of the 200 characters are cheating. How can you tell and who do you ban?

Also - just for fun - let's say you manage to ban 5 actual cheaters - how are you going to do ensure they don't just create a new account the next day and start again.

As soon as you manage to put together a coherent, acceptable plan that is flawless and avoids false negatives (don't falsely ban people who you think are cheating, but aren't) - I'll take sole responsibility of taking it up with the Dev team on your behalf

Keep in mind - they don't have the money to hire 10+ more full-time employee/GMs to go roam the land and monitor cheaters - so that can't be a part of your strategy.
Also - remember this is a business. It's about making money. "If uo dies - it dies" isn't an acceptable strategy either to a business owner.

Rafman · March 2020

Dragonheart said:

1. how fast can you unloot 50 random items in your pack? because scripters can do it in 1 second.

They should make it so items looted from an idoc can't be dropped in a packhorse, nor in a house, for ~15 minutes after picked up.

That way - the smart regular player can quickly sort through what he keeps/doesn't keep and drop on ground, and go onto next barrel. The scripter can't do that.

Dragonheart · March 2020

Rafman said:

Dragonheart said:

1. how fast can you unloot 50 random items in your pack? because scripters can do it in 1 second.

They should make it so items looted from an idoc can't be dropped in a packhorse, nor in a house, for ~15 minutes after picked up.

That way - the smart regular player can quickly sort through what he keeps/doesn't keep and drop on ground, and go onto next barrel. The scripter can't do that.

If they can loot specific items and ignore trash im sure the opposite is true of them getting rid of crap items out of their back pack on to the ground.

But yeah i agree with you if this system is the way they are going to go a timer should be set in which those items cant be moved.

jelinidas · March 2020

Rafman said:

I'll set the scene. We're on Atlantic shard. There's an IDOC - inside luna. As you can imagine, we have ~200 people there....

Well, lets start with not starting out on Atlantic. There are smaller shards with less folks. You can tell right away who is who. Heck, just tag some items and...follow the money baby! Do this on a few random IDOCs on a few random shards and you will soon see a pattern. You will find the stash houses, identify some accts. GMs wouldn't even have to show. Sit back, and watch.

Will you get them all, hell no. Will it make a impact, hell no...at first! But sooner or later, it will help. I used to love seeing the houses on fire with funny house signs. At least, the people will see positive action. Not heads in the sand. Word will spread. Positive words. Sure we will lose some subs after awhile, but many will return. The subs we lose, are not the ones you want anyhow. People are sick of it, a long running not funny joke.

Hell, just ban all EJ accts to Haven. You know in a short time if this is a game you want to explore further. Plenty to skill and kill there. Lots of guilds will bank sit there and chat em up. And speaking of chat, ban them from that too. Often its a embarrassment anyhow. If you were new and tuned in to gen chat, would you stay?

People are sick of lack of communication and scripting. This team "in my opinion" is horrible at both these. Not a real dig at them, as pointed out many, many times, its a small team. Fix these two things and the world is a better place. Hold ur heads high team and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

Skett · March 2020

I don’t do idocs so I don’t have a pony in this race at all
I been kinda following this after recently returning
one hand I give the team credit for trying to do something about the obvious scripters in this game I’ve never seen an IDOC scripter but read about it
on the other hand it does seem like this new system won’t really work there’s some good ideas going around but the team isn’t engaging in conversation about they seem set on this path

I seen a post saying put the barrels for sell to the highest bidder I feel this is wrong maybe some sort of raffle like new Magincia this way you eliminate the rich from buying it all up and it’s a little more fair

it’s sad to see that this is what UO has become everyone fighting over others leaving for what ever reason

most shards are ghost towns it seem the teams time should be spent on more important issues like banning scripters bug fixes and marketing

either way I realize they are at least trying to address a problem that a big portion of the very few players left has issues with

The team is focused on accounts quitting subs dropping to please some of the last active subs

feels more like the end game to me not a new endeavor to add life into the game

Polaris · March 2020

Skett said:

I don’t do idocs so I don’t have a pony in this race at all
I been kinda following this after recently returning
one hand I give the team credit for trying to do something about the obvious scripters in this game I’ve never seen an IDOC scripter but read about it
on the other hand it does seem like this new system won’t really work there’s some good ideas going around but the team isn’t engaging in conversation about they seem set on this path

I seen a post saying put the barrels for sell to the highest bidder I feel this is wrong maybe some sort of raffle like new Magincia this way you eliminate the rich from buying it all up and it’s a little more fair

it’s sad to see that this is what UO has become everyone fighting over others leaving for what ever reason

most shards are ghost towns it seem the teams time should be spent on more important issues like banning scripters bug fixes and marketing

either way I realize they are at least trying to address a problem that a big portion of the very few players left has issues with

The team is focused on accounts quitting subs dropping to please some of the last active subs

feels more like the end game to me not a new endeavor to add life into the game

Absolutely everyone except 1 or 2 have loved this idea so far. Everyone is just offering additional feedback kind of. Even if they do absolutely nothing more, the system is already 1000x better than it was due to the obvious reasons stated by many already. Either something like this or simply leaving all contents for players in their banks (would cost them subs) was the best two options on the table I think. This will work perfect, I just hope they tweak it in minor ways... if not I understand, everyone has their own ideas as to what might help. I'm sure the coding is hard and some things we wish for are impossible.

Cinderella · March 2020

If all account bound items are deleted when the house falls, does that mean that account bound items in your backpack and bank box will also be deleted?

Kirthag · March 2020

@Cinderella - I believe it is only items that are within a house and shouldn't mess with what is in a toon's banks or inventory (ie: logged out toon be it either @ an inn or at the house that has fallen).

@Kyronix - can you please confirm?

Dixie_of_Chessy1 · March 2020

well i was happy about the idoc changes, was really looking forward to being able to idoc again.....that is until i read today that Vet rewards and "heavy" loot will auto poof...... thats BS yall, i mean really? i cant wait 15 years for a garden shed, or afford rubble.... one of the simple joys i find in this game is playing with plants... i idoced allot just for rubble just to find plants..... so now yall have decided to just up and delete it..... You know who your helping by doing this? the websites that sell gold and VET REWARDS! im sure they all begged and cried till they got you to bend to them just as you always do..... do u even realize how much of this stuff they have hoarded up? cause i do, ive looted one of their storage houses they forgot about....back when u could actually loot an idoc here and there..... Deleting Vet rewards only hurts the people playing, deleting rubble only drives the prices up so that only those same handful of people who have 23trillion gold will be the only ones able to afford it...... it really is a shame, i really backed the new idoc changes...now this.... you should just make all vet rewards account bound if you do this...and stop either knowingly or unknowingly helping these uo gold sellers.....

Fortis · March 2020

Lol now veteran reward are getting deleted such a shame...is it that hard to code to go on barrel damn bad idea again...seriously whos in charge this decision

Dasilva · March 2020

WTF deleting vet rewards and heavy items now at idocs as well? someone has lost their mind?

Uriah_Heep · March 2020

People who obviously don't play the game, consistently, shouldn't be making these decisions.

Why exactly, are we supposed to be interested in IDOCs after this? The novelty of looting a random junk piece of armor someone was holding onto to unravel later?

Or perhaps is those plants we've been growing forever?

or the rare sundials that were given out a thousand at a time? /sarcasm

sheeesh, whoever decided this, well, I'm speechless.

But that won't last long.

Someone tell Mariah to get ready for a long night LOL

jelinidas · March 2020

Let me guess. Ran into problems coding this FUBAR. So instead of delaying the publish, you took the easy way out. But hey! The publish will be on time! I mean why get it right, as long as we keep the schedule!

You guys have lost your effin minds! In whos world does deleting vet rewards make sense? Oh, wait...the gold sellers. Cant piss them off. Epic Fail.

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