Powergamers, Casual Gamers and how UO needs non scriptable in-game activities, IMHO...

popps · January 13

The difference between a Powergamer that runs scripted BOTs and a Casual Gamer that actually plays the character, is the time invested in the gameplay, to my viewing...

While a scripted BOT does not consume any or much of the powergamer player's time who controls it/them, the casual player actually spends his/her time at the keyboard to obtain anything in the game that they can get with that gameplay activity.

So, as it usually is, when in-game items are obtained in the game through scripted BOTs, their value goes down and this undercuts the time value of the casual players who actually spend their own time at the keyboard to get the same items, basically making it not worth their time at the keyboard to get the same items... they are much better off earning in game gold elsewhere, and buying these items cheap from the other powergamers who can get them through scripts and BOTs without any or with little expenditure of their own time at the keyboard.

And here we get to the part about why I think, that UO needs more in-game activities (not necessarily hunts, any in-game activity...) which are 100% scripts/BOTs proof...

Considering how, at least to my understanding, so far it has not been possible to entirely eradicate scripting and botting from Ultima Online, if it is necessary to live with it when playing the game, then, at least, to my opinion, Casual Players need to have in the game certain game activities which they can get items from, that they know they will not be competing with powergamers scripting/botting them (guaranteed not scriptable in-game activities...) so that the value of the items obtained through those absolutely guaranteed not scriptable in-game activities will stay a good one so that casual gamers, from selling those items, can then get sufficient gold to then buy the cheaper items in the game that scripters/botters can get.

The only weakness I can think of in such a Design, is to "whom" the Casual gamers would then sell those non-scriptable more expensive items from non-scriptable in-game activities... to powergamers who script and bot ? I doubt that they could be interested in spending much to purchase them... so, Casual Gamers would need to find other Casual Gamers to sell them too... problem is, that often, Casual gamers might not have that much in-game wealth to spend...

Turning to the RNG could be a solution (but only if that in-game activity was to be 100% guaranteed as non-scriptable and non-bottable) since then, a Casual player could be blessed by a lucky RNG and get the valuable item with a little investment of time as compared to some other player who would need to spend a ridiculous amount of their time to get the same item because of an unlucky RNG roll, but it would be absolutely necessary for that in-game activity to be 100% guaranteed non-scriptable and non-bottable or, scripters/botters would just force the RNG to spawn those higher value items though scripting and botting and, thus, with none, or hardly any expenditure of their time...

That is at least my opinion of it.

Thoughts ?

@Kyronix , what do you think ?

Cookie · January 13

I completely sympathise with your viewpoint, and this is how more experienced players think and play.
ie. Not Nythrax and your basic generic Atlantic sampires etc.

We look at what is going on, and at key points, go against the grain, do something completely different to the norm. That is how successful investors work. That is one way of being successful in UO.

The main reason all these issues annoy me, is the negative impact they are having on pvpers, who are not interested in any of this stuff.

This anti-bot war has turned into a Ban all the pvpers for no reason. Yes sure, we require a certain level of playability to pvp.

I also believe - we need some Mage specific content.
When is the last time you ever heard - lets ban all the Mage Trains?
Never, because it has never happened, Mages are barely being used in any of this content - why?
Because they are too hard to play.

But, the design of such anti-bot content would be hard, but I think it is worth trying.
I do keep saying - move it into Felucca, then it becomes part of the sandbox gameplay, as UO wa s always meant to be. Then players can deal with their own issues, the entire point of the game. Instead of always seeing yourselves as victims, see yourselves as being able to control your destiny through the decisions you make - your decisions have more bearing than having to call a GM who will never come. A lot of this, is down to the systemic weakness of the Trammel design.

JackFlashUk · January 13

I think its sad that legal players have a bad experience when it comes to EM events, global events, T mapping and idocs

So it seems to be the only way to really enjoy this game right now is to avoid the above, go fishing, plunder beacons, Navrey etc

these are enjoyable go course but why is it even acceptable or considerable to have to avoid interaction because it would appear that a large number, or even the majority of players are using the illegal client?

Proven when there was a global issue with it and how quiet the game back for them wonderful few weeks until it seemed to have been fixes

This certainly is not "if you cant beat them, join them"

Please. lets just beat them

Claim back the game with only approved clients

Victim_Of_Siege · January 13

@popps give us an example of a non-scriptable activity? I really can't think of one considering if a character has to perform an action, the scripts programs should be able to reproduce it. Not being an arse here but I am genuinely curious.

username · January 13

Adding some sort of activity to the game that cannot be botted is so funny. Understand: this is not possible as there's nothing the constellation client cannot do: trade quest runner bots, bird of prey eodon bots, ToT bots, shadowguard bots, champ spawn bots, etc. anything worth doing in this game for the legitimate little guy player is botted to high hell 24/7. They even bot VvV towns for points.

Some sort of system, like RNG, is only going to benefit the botters as they're running 20-30 accounts 24/7 and the "legitimate little guy" that plays 2 hours a day 3 days a week has no chance. It's such a near-sighted suggestion. Again, look at the above

Moving activities in to Felucca is a hilarious suggestion also as every PVPer uses these clients and normal players, even the best exceptional player without these crutches stand no chance against the automation that is current UO pvp, once again encouraging illicit gameplay.

Cookie said:
But, the design of such anti-bot content would be hard, but I think it is worth trying.
I do keep saying - move it into Felucca, then it becomes part of the sandbox gameplay, as UO wa s always meant to be. Then players can deal with their own issues, the entire point of the game.

Ironic someone that abuses these clients wants stuff moved to Fel....... sigh....and no, that's not the 'entire point of the game' what so ever.

There are only 2 fixes that will actually solve these problem that I can think of:
Dealing with 3rd party client users: add another change that detects them but instead bans them.
Account bound items as rewards including turn-in point items in the cases of ToTs.

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Cookie · January 13

username said:

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

username · January 13

Cookie said:

username said:

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

Where did I ever say I was trying to compete with anyone? What are you even going on about?

Cookie · January 13

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

Where did I ever say I was trying to compete with anyone? What are you even going on about?

I even highlighted it in bold for you

But seriously, what is your agenda even?

You want to be in a position to get lots of reward items that are worth plats, whilst stopping everyone else from taking part, you want to be top of the tree?
How about, just get what you need, for your characters, spares, and friends? Nothing is stopping you.

What are the Bots doing, that even impacts you in any way at all? The only examples you give, relate to gold - driving the price down - good thing surely for all players (unless you want to sell high to make lots of gold, and stop everyone else).

The answer as I see it, is for you to change your defeatist victim mentality in life, and suddenly, everything is solved.

username · January 13

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

Where did I ever say I was trying to compete with anyone? What are you even going on about?

I even highlighted it in bold for you

But seriously, what is your agenda even?

You want to be in a position to get lots of reward items that are worth plats, whilst stopping everyone else from taking part, you want to be top of the tree?
How about, just get what you need, for your characters, spares, and friends? Nothing is stopping you.

What are the Bots doing, that even impacts you in any way at all? The only examples you give, relate to gold - driving the price down - good thing surely for all players (unless you want to sell high to make lots of gold, and stop everyone else).

The answer as I see it, is for you to change your defeatist victim mentality in life, and suddenly, everything is solved.

I'm so curious why you get so defensive when anyone brings up banning players that use clients that are against the tos? Can you not play the game without these crutches? Is your ego so fragile that if you lose in PVP to someone playing fair you break your monitor and keyboard?

It's quite simple: we want the rules to be enforced and everyone on an equal playing field. What's so hard to understand?

Cookie · January 13

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

Where did I ever say I was trying to compete with anyone? What are you even going on about?

I even highlighted it in bold for you

But seriously, what is your agenda even?

You want to be in a position to get lots of reward items that are worth plats, whilst stopping everyone else from taking part, you want to be top of the tree?
How about, just get what you need, for your characters, spares, and friends? Nothing is stopping you.

What are the Bots doing, that even impacts you in any way at all? The only examples you give, relate to gold - driving the price down - good thing surely for all players (unless you want to sell high to make lots of gold, and stop everyone else).

The answer as I see it, is for you to change your defeatist victim mentality in life, and suddenly, everything is solved.

I'm so curious why you get so defensive when anyone brings up banning players that use clients that are against the tos? Can you not play the game without these crutches? Is your ego so fragile that if you lose in PVP to someone playing fair you break your monitor and keyboard?

It's quite simple: we want the rules to be enforced and everyone on an equal playing field. What's so hard to understand?

I'm not being defensive at all.

I have openly asked the Devs, to progress Classic Client on behalf of the pvpers as we do not have a suitable client to use currently.

I want the rules updated - I do not want the rules enforced, as the rules are out of date, this happens you know? What do you think about women not voting? This used to be the rules. People like you, kept trying to enforce them, people like me, said let's move on. Progress.

It is quite simple, stop trying to drag us backwards, stop trying to ban everyone, stop being so authoritarian without taking the whole story into account.

username · January 13

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

Where did I ever say I was trying to compete with anyone? What are you even going on about?

I even highlighted it in bold for you

But seriously, what is your agenda even?

You want to be in a position to get lots of reward items that are worth plats, whilst stopping everyone else from taking part, you want to be top of the tree?
How about, just get what you need, for your characters, spares, and friends? Nothing is stopping you.

What are the Bots doing, that even impacts you in any way at all? The only examples you give, relate to gold - driving the price down - good thing surely for all players (unless you want to sell high to make lots of gold, and stop everyone else).

The answer as I see it, is for you to change your defeatist victim mentality in life, and suddenly, everything is solved.

I'm so curious why you get so defensive when anyone brings up banning players that use clients that are against the tos? Can you not play the game without these crutches? Is your ego so fragile that if you lose in PVP to someone playing fair you break your monitor and keyboard?

It's quite simple: we want the rules to be enforced and everyone on an equal playing field. What's so hard to understand?

I'm not being defensive at all.

I have openly asked the Devs, to progress Classic Client on behalf of the pvpers as we do not have a suitable client to use currently.

I want the rules updated - I do not want the rules enforced, as the rules are out of date, this happens you know? What do you think about women not voting? This used to be the rules. People like you, kept trying to enforce them, people like me, said let's move on. Progress.

It is quite simple, stop trying to drag us backwards, stop trying to ban everyone, stop being so authoritarian without taking the whole story into account.

Yes. Every single time someone brings up the cheater clients you magically appear, just like this post, immediately to defend them. You are the embodiment of defensive.

The devs have given you 3 clients, one that is brand new with nice and shiny features. The problem is you want a 'suitable client' ie one that plays the game for you. The devs will never give you such client so you use it as some sort of justification to yourself to continue cheat.

You made the worst analogy I've ever read in my life. So according to you, every mmo that doesn't allow cheating and a client that has built in full fledged automation is outdated? You're delusional, you know that right?

Cookie · January 13

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

Where did I ever say I was trying to compete with anyone? What are you even going on about?

I even highlighted it in bold for you

But seriously, what is your agenda even?

You want to be in a position to get lots of reward items that are worth plats, whilst stopping everyone else from taking part, you want to be top of the tree?
How about, just get what you need, for your characters, spares, and friends? Nothing is stopping you.

What are the Bots doing, that even impacts you in any way at all? The only examples you give, relate to gold - driving the price down - good thing surely for all players (unless you want to sell high to make lots of gold, and stop everyone else).

The answer as I see it, is for you to change your defeatist victim mentality in life, and suddenly, everything is solved.

I'm so curious why you get so defensive when anyone brings up banning players that use clients that are against the tos? Can you not play the game without these crutches? Is your ego so fragile that if you lose in PVP to someone playing fair you break your monitor and keyboard?

It's quite simple: we want the rules to be enforced and everyone on an equal playing field. What's so hard to understand?

I'm not being defensive at all.

I have openly asked the Devs, to progress Classic Client on behalf of the pvpers as we do not have a suitable client to use currently.

I want the rules updated - I do not want the rules enforced, as the rules are out of date, this happens you know? What do you think about women not voting? This used to be the rules. People like you, kept trying to enforce them, people like me, said let's move on. Progress.

It is quite simple, stop trying to drag us backwards, stop trying to ban everyone, stop being so authoritarian without taking the whole story into account.

Yes. Every single time someone brings up the cheater clients you magically appear, just like this post, immediately to defend them. You are the embodiment of defensive.

The devs have given you 3 clients, one that is brand new with nice and shiny features. The problem is you want a 'suitable client' ie one that plays the game for you. The devs will never give you such client so you use it as some sort of justification to yourself to continue cheat.

You made the worst analogy I've ever read in my life. So according to you, every mmo that doesn't allow cheating and a client that has built in full fledged automation is outdated? You're delusional, you know that right?

I appear, because all of your little authoritarian banning witch-hunts, are not thinking about the pvpers, who really do not care about any of your crap.

How old is UO?
27 years?
Have the ToS ever been updated?
Is it possible, in the seriously fast world of IT, and Gaming - that the external scenario has changed somewhat?

Think about it.

username · January 13

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

Where did I ever say I was trying to compete with anyone? What are you even going on about?

I even highlighted it in bold for you

But seriously, what is your agenda even?

You want to be in a position to get lots of reward items that are worth plats, whilst stopping everyone else from taking part, you want to be top of the tree?
How about, just get what you need, for your characters, spares, and friends? Nothing is stopping you.

What are the Bots doing, that even impacts you in any way at all? The only examples you give, relate to gold - driving the price down - good thing surely for all players (unless you want to sell high to make lots of gold, and stop everyone else).

The answer as I see it, is for you to change your defeatist victim mentality in life, and suddenly, everything is solved.

I'm so curious why you get so defensive when anyone brings up banning players that use clients that are against the tos? Can you not play the game without these crutches? Is your ego so fragile that if you lose in PVP to someone playing fair you break your monitor and keyboard?

It's quite simple: we want the rules to be enforced and everyone on an equal playing field. What's so hard to understand?

I'm not being defensive at all.

I have openly asked the Devs, to progress Classic Client on behalf of the pvpers as we do not have a suitable client to use currently.

I want the rules updated - I do not want the rules enforced, as the rules are out of date, this happens you know? What do you think about women not voting? This used to be the rules. People like you, kept trying to enforce them, people like me, said let's move on. Progress.

It is quite simple, stop trying to drag us backwards, stop trying to ban everyone, stop being so authoritarian without taking the whole story into account.

Yes. Every single time someone brings up the cheater clients you magically appear, just like this post, immediately to defend them. You are the embodiment of defensive.

The devs have given you 3 clients, one that is brand new with nice and shiny features. The problem is you want a 'suitable client' ie one that plays the game for you. The devs will never give you such client so you use it as some sort of justification to yourself to continue cheat.

You made the worst analogy I've ever read in my life. So according to you, every mmo that doesn't allow cheating and a client that has built in full fledged automation is outdated? You're delusional, you know that right?

I appear, because all of you little authoritarian banning witch-hunts, are not thinking about the pvpers, who really do not care about any of your crap.

PVP in every game is a test of skill. May the best player win. Not the best program. Perhaps, all these pvper and yourself should get good? Instead of relying on automation.

Cookie · January 13

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

Where did I ever say I was trying to compete with anyone? What are you even going on about?

I even highlighted it in bold for you

But seriously, what is your agenda even?

You want to be in a position to get lots of reward items that are worth plats, whilst stopping everyone else from taking part, you want to be top of the tree?
How about, just get what you need, for your characters, spares, and friends? Nothing is stopping you.

What are the Bots doing, that even impacts you in any way at all? The only examples you give, relate to gold - driving the price down - good thing surely for all players (unless you want to sell high to make lots of gold, and stop everyone else).

The answer as I see it, is for you to change your defeatist victim mentality in life, and suddenly, everything is solved.

I'm so curious why you get so defensive when anyone brings up banning players that use clients that are against the tos? Can you not play the game without these crutches? Is your ego so fragile that if you lose in PVP to someone playing fair you break your monitor and keyboard?

It's quite simple: we want the rules to be enforced and everyone on an equal playing field. What's so hard to understand?

I'm not being defensive at all.

I have openly asked the Devs, to progress Classic Client on behalf of the pvpers as we do not have a suitable client to use currently.

I want the rules updated - I do not want the rules enforced, as the rules are out of date, this happens you know? What do you think about women not voting? This used to be the rules. People like you, kept trying to enforce them, people like me, said let's move on. Progress.

It is quite simple, stop trying to drag us backwards, stop trying to ban everyone, stop being so authoritarian without taking the whole story into account.

Yes. Every single time someone brings up the cheater clients you magically appear, just like this post, immediately to defend them. You are the embodiment of defensive.

The devs have given you 3 clients, one that is brand new with nice and shiny features. The problem is you want a 'suitable client' ie one that plays the game for you. The devs will never give you such client so you use it as some sort of justification to yourself to continue cheat.

You made the worst analogy I've ever read in my life. So according to you, every mmo that doesn't allow cheating and a client that has built in full fledged automation is outdated? You're delusional, you know that right?

I appear, because all of you little authoritarian banning witch-hunts, are not thinking about the pvpers, who really do not care about any of your crap.

PVP in every game is a test of skill. May the best player win. Not the best program. Perhaps, all these pvper and yourself should get good? Instead of relying on automation.

PvM Trammies telling PvPers how to PvP, is never going to work.

I've been in your shoes, I know everything you could possibly know.

You try stepping into my shoes, then come back to me.

username · January 13

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

Where did I ever say I was trying to compete with anyone? What are you even going on about?

I even highlighted it in bold for you

But seriously, what is your agenda even?

You want to be in a position to get lots of reward items that are worth plats, whilst stopping everyone else from taking part, you want to be top of the tree?
How about, just get what you need, for your characters, spares, and friends? Nothing is stopping you.

What are the Bots doing, that even impacts you in any way at all? The only examples you give, relate to gold - driving the price down - good thing surely for all players (unless you want to sell high to make lots of gold, and stop everyone else).

The answer as I see it, is for you to change your defeatist victim mentality in life, and suddenly, everything is solved.

I'm so curious why you get so defensive when anyone brings up banning players that use clients that are against the tos? Can you not play the game without these crutches? Is your ego so fragile that if you lose in PVP to someone playing fair you break your monitor and keyboard?

It's quite simple: we want the rules to be enforced and everyone on an equal playing field. What's so hard to understand?

I'm not being defensive at all.

I have openly asked the Devs, to progress Classic Client on behalf of the pvpers as we do not have a suitable client to use currently.

I want the rules updated - I do not want the rules enforced, as the rules are out of date, this happens you know? What do you think about women not voting? This used to be the rules. People like you, kept trying to enforce them, people like me, said let's move on. Progress.

It is quite simple, stop trying to drag us backwards, stop trying to ban everyone, stop being so authoritarian without taking the whole story into account.

Yes. Every single time someone brings up the cheater clients you magically appear, just like this post, immediately to defend them. You are the embodiment of defensive.

The devs have given you 3 clients, one that is brand new with nice and shiny features. The problem is you want a 'suitable client' ie one that plays the game for you. The devs will never give you such client so you use it as some sort of justification to yourself to continue cheat.

You made the worst analogy I've ever read in my life. So according to you, every mmo that doesn't allow cheating and a client that has built in full fledged automation is outdated? You're delusional, you know that right?

I appear, because all of you little authoritarian banning witch-hunts, are not thinking about the pvpers, who really do not care about any of your crap.

PVP in every game is a test of skill. May the best player win. Not the best program. Perhaps, all these pvper and yourself should get good? Instead of relying on automation.

PvM Trammies telling PvPers how to PvP, is never going to work.

I've been in your shoes, I know everything you could possibly know.

You try stepping into my shoes, then come back to me.

You can load scripts that automate everything for you. Congratulations. No one cares.

Cookie · January 13

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

Where did I ever say I was trying to compete with anyone? What are you even going on about?

I even highlighted it in bold for you

But seriously, what is your agenda even?

You want to be in a position to get lots of reward items that are worth plats, whilst stopping everyone else from taking part, you want to be top of the tree?
How about, just get what you need, for your characters, spares, and friends? Nothing is stopping you.

What are the Bots doing, that even impacts you in any way at all? The only examples you give, relate to gold - driving the price down - good thing surely for all players (unless you want to sell high to make lots of gold, and stop everyone else).

The answer as I see it, is for you to change your defeatist victim mentality in life, and suddenly, everything is solved.

I'm so curious why you get so defensive when anyone brings up banning players that use clients that are against the tos? Can you not play the game without these crutches? Is your ego so fragile that if you lose in PVP to someone playing fair you break your monitor and keyboard?

It's quite simple: we want the rules to be enforced and everyone on an equal playing field. What's so hard to understand?

I'm not being defensive at all.

I have openly asked the Devs, to progress Classic Client on behalf of the pvpers as we do not have a suitable client to use currently.

I want the rules updated - I do not want the rules enforced, as the rules are out of date, this happens you know? What do you think about women not voting? This used to be the rules. People like you, kept trying to enforce them, people like me, said let's move on. Progress.

It is quite simple, stop trying to drag us backwards, stop trying to ban everyone, stop being so authoritarian without taking the whole story into account.

Yes. Every single time someone brings up the cheater clients you magically appear, just like this post, immediately to defend them. You are the embodiment of defensive.

The devs have given you 3 clients, one that is brand new with nice and shiny features. The problem is you want a 'suitable client' ie one that plays the game for you. The devs will never give you such client so you use it as some sort of justification to yourself to continue cheat.

You made the worst analogy I've ever read in my life. So according to you, every mmo that doesn't allow cheating and a client that has built in full fledged automation is outdated? You're delusional, you know that right?

I appear, because all of you little authoritarian banning witch-hunts, are not thinking about the pvpers, who really do not care about any of your crap.

PVP in every game is a test of skill. May the best player win. Not the best program. Perhaps, all these pvper and yourself should get good? Instead of relying on automation.

PvM Trammies telling PvPers how to PvP, is never going to work.

I've been in your shoes, I know everything you could possibly know.

You try stepping into my shoes, then come back to me.

You can load scripts that automate everything for you. Congratulations. No one cares.

Which shows how little you know.

I can do this yes, do I do this? Would there be any reasons for me not to do this?

Victim_Of_Siege · January 13

KroDuK · January 13

Cookie said:
PvM Trammies telling PvPers how to PvP, is never going to work.

You are a BvB not a PvPers.. I was calling you out to PvP when your cheat engine was down.. your answer was: I already shut down all my account.. I refuse to play the game.. You're an operator that does Bot vs Bot.. Don't go after "trammies" while dodging legit PvP user when your cheat engine is down. (he was soooo pissed... the first thing he did on the forum when it came back 2-3 days later was to say he'd move on Legends to hunt me down)

PS: this is all u can do picking on the weaker (legit or PvE users) or u wouldn't (have my bola balls in your mouth) be using a cheat engine pretending this is the future.. even on diablo 1 in 1996-97 u could install a cheat engine (bob's hack) same type of cheat engine we've seen on tESO in 2015..
Since it was peer to peer.. you had to create the lobby and u were a GOD.. u could join my lobby on a sorcerer lvl 99 and I could change your character for a warrior lvl 1.. while modifying all my stats to be max stats; 999999999999..
The thing is.. as soon u would left MY lobby.. your sorc lvl 99 that was now a warrior lvl 1 would be gucci.. people didn't knew that and would beg the cheaters to get back their character. (the cheater was only modifying his lobby data)

Meanwhile you're the one nab who's telling a real PvPers (me) how to monitor the game instead of playing it.. telling me to install your cheat engine.. i-n-s-a-n-e

username said:
You're delusional, you know that right?

He's too deep to be sane.

Victim_Of_Siege said:

You're not neutral.. in those term you sided with that cheater by saying nothing.. you are AS guilty even if you only cope with those cheaters. (wich i find hard to believe, since u playing on a griefer server; u'd be the first one to cry against injustice like this one)

@Lord_Nythrax btw the post u got shut down talking about ATL.. the OP @JackFlashUk was speaking about a dead shard Legends.. cheaters ain't only problematic on ATL.. it's a polution thingy at this point.. we can't drink water from MAIN CONTENT even on dead shard while people on ATL cannot breath the air.. no one saying ATL problem ain't worse.. but pretending only ATL has issues.. is as delusional as Cookie is; pretending he's playing the game with stuff like automated botted trapped box action or a train of botted garg throwers with automated Armor Ignore and heals.

Edit: i'm coming for you; godfather.

Edit2: talking about god powers/superman like abilities with cheat engine.. if anyone is fan of dune an "unofficial" novel by Frank Herbert to understand Paul Atreides: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Godmakers_(novel)
It's short and sweet.

Edit3: BS still can buy peace.. make a ban world shard for Cookie's and CO.. or a legit prodo shard.. really easy and VERY light work.. no reason to NOT do it.. think about it.. cuz I won't let it slide.. u still could do what u do.. nothing gonna get exposed.. just buy peace with MINIMAL work.. ban world or legit prodo shard..

Cuz the counter part would be to make constellation legit and open a very heavy P2W cash shop on UO store (like NCSoft have done).. choice is urs.. while u still have the choice.

Pawain · January 13

popps wants a clicky with RNG.

@popps what shards are you on and why don't you have hundreds of drops. This is the most drop giving event we have had.

Arnold7 · January 13

UO is easily the most illogical game I have ever played. All this talk about bots causing problems on Atlantic, but on other lower population shards players cannot do events without them. When I play usually only a few others are on. Bots provide the population needed to do the event some nights, especially as time goes on and fewer players are doing the event. Only a few players have them though so they really don’t interfere with the real player’s game play on my shard.

KroDuK · January 13

He (popps) just does not understand; what u see in game.. on your client... the server has to speak with the client u have installed on the PC.. like for respawn/mobs on your screen... and any cheat engine can grab those data to bot the actions.. like automated trapped box.. like Cookie admitted to use in PvP.. it's gonna INSTANT click a trap box as soon u get paralyze.. 100% botted action your client detected the server sending him a paralyze notification for your character and the cheat engine does an immediate response.

Now u have some specific clients; they SPEAK a bit too much (when the dev go client side and not server side for lag purpose) on these game those cheat engine can legit modify values.. after that the dev need to work on AI to auto detect impossible actions like this dude did x command way too fast.. "auto ban"
What tESO have worked on.. but when legit user would get affected (cuz of lag and weaving) they shut that down to ban the cheat engine users..

My cheater name on tESO was Pixie Stick.. this dude was hidding in a zerg and would INSTANT deplete his mana bar popping 8-10 explosions staff back to back in a fraction of second.. bypassing the cooldown limit with his client.. like it is possible to do on UO..

ZOS banning cheaters.. but the good cheater are still cheating hidding in a zerg but they healing (bypassing the limit instant depleting their mana to give HUGE heals)
The only way to get them ban would be for their ally to report them.. wich almost never happen.. it was happening with Origin System cuz they were working closely with the community and had a couple spy (not talking about the corrupted taxi drivers).

PS: a game like blade and soul.. some content you look the leaderboard.. the time they got.. cannot be achieve by a human.. even with a perfect run.. cuz it's heavy P2W and they give you access to bot mode.. so all the 9 remaining users using BnS buddy (a cheat engine) and they bots their content with WAY better bots than what NCSoft offer.. this is what UO aspire to be with their current executive producer.

KroDuK · January 13

Arnold7 said:

UO is easily the most illogical game I have ever played. All this talk about bots causing problems on Atlantic, but on other lower population shards players cannot do events without them. When I play usually only a few others are on. Bots provide the population needed to do the event some nights, especially as time goes on and fewer players are doing the event. Only a few players have them though so they really don’t interfere with the real player’s game play on my shard.

Fun fact.. this is how it started on BnS.. low population cuz heavy P2W and script would kill PvP.. so NCSoft make a bot mode (press f4) on RAID ZONE.. u can AFK it kill, loot and EXP by itself.. so the raid zone (24-40 players stuff) can be farmed by noobs with the help of AFK alt account.. the same raid zone could be clean by 2 guys cuz of heavy P2W.. at the end.. everyone was using the better cheat engine.

UO is very similar to that.. but just worse.. most PvE content can be solo.. the manifestation all u need is 5 meidum geared players with a brain.. or u can cheese it.. give me a tiny list of content dead shard would have problem to deal with?

PS: so I can tell you:" almost like the producer creating a problem by herself, to justify the non sense"

Edit: fix that non sense with a good PR move.. those dead shard gonna fill themselves with actual real people.. that enjoy a good iso sandbox game.. not too late to balance the heresy and make it enjoyable for casual legit users.. hardcap and softcap..

Cookie · January 13

KroDuK said:

He (popps) just does not understand; what u see in game.. on your client... the server has to speak with the client u have installed on the PC.. like for respawn/mobs on your screen... and any cheat engine can grab those data to bot the actions.. like automated trapped box.. like Cookie admitted to use in PvP.. it's gonna INSTANT click a trap box as soon u get paralyze.. 100% botted action your client detected the server sending him a paralyze notification for your character and the cheat engine does an immediate response.

Now u have some specific clients; they SPEAK a bit too much (when the dev go client side and not server side for lag purpose) on these game those cheat engine can legit modify values.. after that the dev need to work on AI to auto detect impossible actions like this dude did x command way too fast.. "auto ban"
What tESO have worked on.. but when legit user would get affected (cuz of lag and weaving) they shut that down to ban the cheat engine users..

My cheater name on tESO was Pixie Stick.. this dude was hidding in a zerg and would INSTANT deplete his mana bar popping 8-10 explosions staff back to back in a fraction of second.. bypassing the cooldown limit with his client.. like it is possible to do on UO..

ZOS banning cheaters.. but the good cheater are still cheating hidding in a zerg but they healing (bypassing the limit instant depleting their mana to give HUGE heals)
The only way to get them ban would be for their ally to report them.. wich almost never happen.. it was happening with Origin System cuz they were working closely with the community and had a couple spy (not talking about the corrupted taxi drivers).

PS: a game like blade and soul.. some content you look the leaderboard.. the time they got.. cannot be achieve by a human.. even with a perfect run.. cuz it's heavy P2W and they give you access to bot mode.. so all the 9 remaining users using BnS buddy (a cheat engine) and they bots their content with WAY better bots than what NCSoft offer.. this is what UO aspire to be with their current executive producer.

Image: https://forum.uo.com/uploads/editor/47/cko0aq7ka6oy.png

Lord_Nythrax · January 13

Cookie uses the banned client. Everyone knows it, hell he's posted screenshots from it before. He's an incompetent old man who thinks being a scripter on a dead shard makes him hot shit for some reason, he won't even think of logging in if he can't cheat, and every post he makes is just some bad faith gibberish that boils down to how he wants to cheat in peace forever. He's not worth trying to have a serious conversation with.

The dev team has been completely stomped out and humiliated by botters anyway. They don't have the stomach or the financial incentive to ban cheaters who use paid accounts, so nothing else they do even matters. If they won't ban extremely blatant visible obvious massive botting then there's no reason to imagine that they'll ban anything. Their defeat in the "war on third party" has destroyed their credibility, and the TOS has essentially fallen.

I now support @username and his idea to make everything that drops from events account bound.

Cookie · January 13

Lord_Nythrax said:

Cookie uses the banned client. Everyone knows it, hell he's posted screenshots from it before. He's an incompetent old man who thinks being a scripter on a dead shard makes him hot shit for some reason, he won't even think of logging in if he can't cheat, and every post he makes is just some bad faith gibberish that boils down to how he wants to cheat in peace forever. He's not worth trying to have a serious conversation with.

The dev team has been completely stomped out and humiliated by botters anyway. They don't have the stomach or the financial incentive to ban cheaters who use paid accounts, so nothing else they do even matters. If they won't ban extremely blatant visible obvious massive botting then there's no reason to imagine that they'll ban anything. Their defeat in the "war on third party" has destroyed their credibility, and the TOS has essentially fallen.

I now support @ username and his idea to make everything that drops from events account bound.

MTOSGA.

Rewrite them, rebuild them, something modern.

Venom · January 13

Bottom line: The very small dev team took a measure to single to those using illegal applications that they can be detected. This is probably just a step in the so-called "war" on cheating. While I agree more action should have been taken sooner, the reality is there are too few developers attempting to work on what is without a doubt a mess of code, that runs through 3 legal clients, and requires bug fixes, etc.

People have lives outside of UO -- including the devs. Would I like more communication? Sure. But I'd rather they spend their time working on the game than stumbling into threads that feel like ground hog day. If I was a developer for the game, I wouldn't waste my time reading these threads. I'd simply ask the community manager to put together a weekly compilation of reported bugs and notes of what themes people are requesting (new lands, NL feedback, etc).

I think the developers should take action on those who flagrantly violate the ToS and are using an illegal client. The rampant cheating is what caused me to stop actively participating in PvP years ago. Even if a magical fix to forever prevent all cheating occurred, the shards are not suddenly going to fill with players past and new. It's a nearly 30 year old game.

KroDuK · January 13

Venom said:

the shards are not suddenly going to fill with players past and new. It's a nearly 30 year old game.

You'd be surprise with a good PR move.. you say a nearly 30 yrs old game.. like it was only bad stuff.. It mean UO has so much to offer.. it has it's perk and con beng 30 yrs old.. the biggest con other than graphic is the solution to fix their mistake was often worse than the mistake.. just look at the account bound suggestion.. clearly would be perfect for the actual heretic problem.. but thing would end up being even worse for the game longterm.. things like that happened A LOT.. things are out of control.. they gave up on prodo a decade ago like they gave up on CC almost two decade ago.

I'm not blaming the dev.. the executive producer tho.. I invite that person of connecting in game or on the forum just once in 2025. That person is actively killing the future of this game for present artificial numbers, when it could still be in the top 10 most played MMO in 2025.. easy.

Tell me i'm wrong.

EX: u do a PR move.. the ban world shard with a sexy CC client.. u sponso a couple top&mid tier streamer to come play UO.. u just gain easy 10k sub in a single month.. now can u maintain those numbers and keep growing cuz UO is a good open world community sandbox? those new players gonna recommend UO? Is UO playable on a shitty mobile version pushing u toward the PC cuz u can onlydo basic stuff on the mobile version? (great window for modern audience)

PS: i'd recommend AO before UO in 2025.. *whisper I would never recommend AO* and AO u cannot play more than 1 year imo if your not brain dead, lack of good PvE and PvP content.

Ask people u know in game.. would u recommend UO?

Personally on the contrary I know some people that would come back if.. stuff like Legit non heretic PvP was a thing.. killing the best content UO has to offer for 98% of real people.. champ spawn..

The dev I would blame them for other stuff.. non cheat engine related.. like making the shattered artifact from invasion being insurable while offering best reward in the Tram tunnel.. questionable design choices..
they should be CURSED and Felucca should be the cherry.. if things were not what they are.. making things even worst for non bots lovers.

Edit: if u wanna do account bound stuff and be more transparent.. add a battle pass or a premium sub 10 more bucks per month and u get 125mil gold per month.. type of stuff.. we might be in a case of new blood for new blood.

Potential and content is there.. and it's being wasted and ruined.. a retro CC sandbox like UO offering solid OW PvEvP content could still be a top 10 most played MMO in 20 yrs.. just cuz it's nearly 50yrs old.

KroDuK · January 13

Cookie said:

Got a funnier meme for you:

Image: https://forum.uo.com/uploads/editor/z3/vly8obxgug9x.png

The very next day they would ALL came back on the leaderboard.. the cheater gave no damn about those empty threat.. they killed the game for everyone and they all what NCSoft had left.. so NCSoft design the game for them adding legit bot mode in game

It was a race "event" speed hacker swept all the rewards from the leaderboard.. BnS still is the best combat I experience in a MMOrpg.. but it has like 9 players in NA and 12 in EU.. ask me why so little number with such great combat.. so I can point a finger at you.. with their cheat engine u can legit hold your left mouse button and it's gonna perform the most perfect combo by itself.. (NCSoft did a worse "legit" version wich they called the simplify combat work the same but only does the weakest combo/dps)

You're not playing you are operating on those games.. but NCSoft totally assume their choices unliked BS and kill the game for the Western audience.. places like russia still has a decent active player base that does monitor and PvP on a daily basis.. they cooking great food but no one remain to taste it.. then they came with a fully botted/ autoplay Throne and Liberty.. they receive tons of hate and been removing automation since.. but the damage is already done.. it was design in it's core to be a very heavy grinded/botted game.. dmg control after bad decisions.

(via purple u could receive alert on your cell phone.. cuz if u paid a battle pass u had access to a bot system.. u could bot LEGIT the open world.. and receive a warning on your cellphone via NCSoft app; Purple, when your bot would get attacked by another player)
This was their great first itteration that receive a TONS of hate.
The future u want.. already existed in 96-1997 on diablo 1 and is still HATED by most westerner in 2025.

Venom · January 14

@KroDuK I'd love to be incorrect -- however, I still don't think the shards would fill-up if they were able to wave a metaphorical want to get rid of all cheating using illegal 3rd party applications. The 10,000 subs you're hypothesizing is simply that, I don't think we have the means of getting even an educated guess.

As for PVP and cursed items, which is more populated -- Tram or Fel? It's Tram. If the #s at the MMO-Population website are in the ballpark of true, look at UO's numbers versus other major (past and present) MMOs. The vast majority of major MMOs do not have a system where the player faces losing some great piece of gear because another player killed him. A regular occurrence in online gaming is griefing, especially in the realm of PVP.

Game design choices are a matter of preference. Personally, I do not like even Shard Bound items. One of my favorite parts of Ultima Online was the ability to trade pretty much anything. I understand the argument for Shard Bound items, just like I understand it for those seeing it as a solution to botting. My opinions are just that and do not make them the same or superior perspective to others.

KroDuK · January 14

Venom said:

@ KroDuK I'd love to be incorrect -- however, I still don't think the shards would fill-up if they were able to wave a metaphorical..

Here do a PR move.. that would make talk in the MMOrpg scene.. something like a ban world shard for cheaters.. u warn them if they keep going.. boom.

Then u got a sponsor budget to pay couple streamer.. u tell them wich shard to join.. you utilize some of your vet to assist those GM's with the streamers; help leading their community (u'd need a solid CC client and bring back the sandbox first working on balancing the game/hardcapping the heresy)

A streamer with only 300 viewers sponso for 2-4 weeks could bring easy 30 viewers to sub by himself in a single month to play with him on UO.. starting brand new.. u do some kind of promotion on UO store.. u can legit do a premium sub for 10 more bucks for 125mil gold type of stuff.. or a crafting bundle for resources or full LRC set (be more transparent on the P2W; what some call Pay 2 Fast aspect)

Look the content creator code use by fortnite or ashes of creation.. free easy promotion from streamers.. if UO assume their P2W aspect.

PS: i'm not suggesting losing great piece of equip items.. i'm suggesting a better risk vs reward with cursed shattered.. go bank them 10 at a time waste 30 seconds if u don't wanna risk the biscuit.. the ESSENSE of what UO was.. and what the actual dev totally ignore for a MORE BOTS more rewards game for boomer hoarders and cheaters with fragile ego.

You have tons of good design against griefing.. take example of AoS..with the OP paladin.. u needed a good karma.. look the virtues system.. red cannot use it.. tons of good mechanic.. like giving extra buff for maitaining some virtues knight.. like bypassing the MR cap by 2-3 points and being blue? to make the griefing harder.. like offering a PvE facet for less reward (less reward.. or more reward?) -.-

Do not make griefing easy since it's rewarding.. or u kill your shard after 3 months.. no new blood most of the time.

Venom said:

Game design choices are a matter of preference.

Good one are not imo.. you won't reinvent the wheels.. good game design for a dog won't be a question of preference if your a sheep.. we playing a sandbox with housing & open world content with risk vs reward.. just look at NL.. I call that New Heresy Theme Park Legacy.

Risk vs Reward was good design choice for an OW sandbox.. the essence of what UO was... the bots for more reward while ruining PvP content with frame skippers and automated bots on bots action for everyone is not a question of preference.. the dev did not gave better reward on Trammel for a question of preference.. they seen the data.. they were like god damn.. no one legit going on felucca except the tard always crying on the forum cuz of them frame skipper.. let's make better reward in trammel tunnels for them bots lover and make it 24/7, maybe they will forgive us.. this is not a preference thingy.. this is heresy.

Edit: you also assume all those cheater would stop playing UO.. when u sending them on ban world shard.. Cookie and Co won't stop monitoring; they can only transfer on other ban world shard tho.. u carry over ALL their belonging and schedule a highly botted house placement event.

League of Trolls work similarly with their toxic users.. "ban world" play with other "ban world"

Oreogl · January 14

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Here's another problem with these ToTs, possibly a discussion for another thread: these items they're releasing are incredibly powerful, best in slot items, and turn-in points are currently rotting on vendors 500k (or less) per point lol. Good luck as a legitimate player trying to compete with 100's of bots selling this for the lowest price. The economy is currently so tragically destroyed. In almost any other MMO the best in slot high end gear is always account bound. Gee, wonder why they do this? Anyways, a discussion for another time.

Why are you always trying to compete?
Is it worth it, when your only way to win, is by banning all the other players?
Don't you think something is off with your entire attitude if that is the case?
Even in PvP, this is pretty poor behaviour.

I don't even understand how, or why you see yourself as competing.
If you want an item for your characters, go and get them, simple as, that is what I do.
I'm not competing with anyone.

If you want to pvp against me in Felucca, then you are genuinely competing.
Nothing else, up until that point, is competition.
It is just playing the game.

I find the whole concept of competing for gold, in a game, quite shallow to be fair. Play your game, enjoy it. It's not about the gold, this is the issue, your greed shines through, the same as the rest of the complainers. And you are trying to design the game around pure greed?

Where did I ever say I was trying to compete with anyone? What are you even going on about?

I even highlighted it in bold for you

But seriously, what is your agenda even?

You want to be in a position to get lots of reward items that are worth plats, whilst stopping everyone else from taking part, you want to be top of the tree?
How about, just get what you need, for your characters, spares, and friends? Nothing is stopping you.

What are the Bots doing, that even impacts you in any way at all? The only examples you give, relate to gold - driving the price down - good thing surely for all players (unless you want to sell high to make lots of gold, and stop everyone else).

The answer as I see it, is for you to change your defeatist victim mentality in life, and suddenly, everything is solved.

I'm so curious why you get so defensive when anyone brings up banning players that use clients that are against the tos? Can you not play the game without these crutches? Is your ego so fragile that if you lose in PVP to someone playing fair you break your monitor and keyboard?

It's quite simple: we want the rules to be enforced and everyone on an equal playing field. What's so hard to understand?

I'm not being defensive at all.

I have openly asked the Devs, to progress Classic Client on behalf of the pvpers as we do not have a suitable client to use currently.

I want the rules updated - I do not want the rules enforced, as the rules are out of date, this happens you know? What do you think about women not voting? This used to be the rules. People like you, kept trying to enforce them, people like me, said let's move on. Progress.

It is quite simple, stop trying to drag us backwards, stop trying to ban everyone, stop being so authoritarian without taking the whole story into account.

Yes. Every single time someone brings up the cheater clients you magically appear, just like this post, immediately to defend them. You are the embodiment of defensive.

The devs have given you 3 clients, one that is brand new with nice and shiny features. The problem is you want a 'suitable client' ie one that plays the game for you. The devs will never give you such client so you use it as some sort of justification to yourself to continue cheat.

You made the worst analogy I've ever read in my life. So according to you, every mmo that doesn't allow cheating and a client that has built in full fledged automation is outdated? You're delusional, you know that right?

I appear, because all of you little authoritarian banning witch-hunts, are not thinking about the pvpers, who really do not care about any of your crap.

PVP in every game is a test of skill. May the best player win. Not the best program. Perhaps, all these pvper and yourself should get good? Instead of relying on automation.

PvM Trammies telling PvPers how to PvP, is never going to work.

I've been in your shoes, I know everything you could possibly know.

You try stepping into my shoes, then come back to me.

You can load scripts that automate everything for you. Congratulations. No one cares.

I don’t really have anything to add. I just wanted to add another 3 mile column of text to the thread.

Oreo

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Powergamers, Casual Gamers and how UO needs non scriptable in-game activities, IMHO...

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