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Can anyone please explain this VS search result technically ?

poppspopps Posts: 3,950
edited March 24 in General Discussions
I entered a search on Atlantic's VS for a Legendary scroll of Fishing as one can see in the search window from the attached picture.

Well, within the results, there was a 120 "fencing" powerscroll.

I mean, how is it possible that a search Query for "fishing" was to return a finding for "fencing" ?

How can this technically happen ??


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Comments

  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 910
    edited March 24
    .
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,107
    edited March 24
    Fake news.  Another thread and multiple posters said VS does not work...

    I had one the other day.  I did Orc Ship on LS and all kinds of weapons and armor came up.  I could understand Orc Slayer coming up, but the other stuff was weird.  ( I just did it on Atl and noticed the Sorcery items showed up.)

    I put in "120 scroll fishing" and also got few Fencing.  But the fishing scrolls are there.

    In the scheme of things, Does it really matter?  You had to look at a whole 2 pages of VS.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,026
    Pawain said:
    Fake news.  Another thread and multiple posters said VS does not work...

    I had one the other day.  I did Orc Ship on LS and all kinds of weapons and armor came up.  I could understand Orc Slayer coming up, but the other stuff was weird.  ( I just did it on Atl and noticed the Sorcery items showed up.)

    I put in "120 scroll fishing" and also got few Fencing.  But the fishing scrolls are there.

    In the scheme of things, Does it really matter?  You had to look at a whole 2 pages of VS.
    Your willingness to accept broken stuff is well documented must you reply and try to make every one else accept it too
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,950
    Pawain said:
    Fake news.  Another thread and multiple posters said VS does not work...

    I had one the other day.  I did Orc Ship on LS and all kinds of weapons and armor came up.  I could understand Orc Slayer coming up, but the other stuff was weird.  ( I just did it on Atl and noticed the Sorcery items showed up.)

    I put in "120 scroll fishing" and also got few Fencing.  But the fishing scrolls are there.

    In the scheme of things, Does it really matter?  You had to look at a whole 2 pages of VS.
    In the scheme of things, Does it really matter?  You had to look at a whole 2 pages of VS.

    That's not the point.

    The point is that it makes no sense whatsoever to me that a player looking for a fishing powerscroll gets, among the results, a fencing powerscroll.

    What is the point to enter given text words as search filters when these words return results that have hardly anything to do with the words entered ?
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,107
    edited March 24


    Someone is trying to scam.  Do you just have to troll. @Grimbeard

    They wrote fishing on the description.

    Works as intended.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,950
    edited March 24
    Pawain said:


    Someone is trying to scam.  Do you just have to troll. @ Grimbeard

    They wrote fishing on the description.

    Works as intended.
    Please, look at MY attached picture in the OP.

    There is NO DESCRIPTION for that "fencing" powerscroll...

    Hoovering with the mouse shows NOWHERE in the item that there is any "fishing" word in it.

    Yet, it turned out in my query for a fishing item....

    I am afraid that, at least to my opinion, it is NOT working well...

    That "fencing" powerscroll should have never showed up in my search query for a "fishing" powerscroll.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 904
    "It's a TROLL", that is all...

    i guess the only thing that makes... any sense at all.. would be that each letter used in the search criteria is on the fencing scroll?  I haven't had that experience myself, but I haven't used VS for anything lately, I pretty much only login to stock my vendors for the last few months or so.
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,107
    popps said:
    Pawain said:


    Someone is trying to scam.  Do you just have to troll. @ Grimbeard

    They wrote fishing on the description.

    Works as intended.
    Please, look at MY attached picture in the OP.

    There is NO DESCRIPTION for that "fencing" powerscroll...

    Hoovering with the mouse shows NOWHERE in the item that there is any "fishing" word in it.

    Yet, it turned out in my query for a fishing item....

    I am afraid that, at least to my opinion, it is NOT working well...

    That "fencing" powerscroll should have never showed up in my search query for a "fishing" powerscroll.
    What do you want them to change?  That is the only fencing scroll that shows up when you search for fishing.   There are many pages of 120 fencing scrolls.

    Maybe it is picking up enough of the price to make it show.   

    Something is making it show up on your search.  Many letters and numbers are the same.

    Should we stop UO until this is fixed? Revert Atlantic?  Not a game changing situation.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • FeigrFeigr Posts: 492
    edited March 25


    Why doesn't yours show the full search criteria?

    EDIT: LOL, I see what you're doing.  I went to ATL and searched and got the same results.  But the first one was that house that clearly has someone camping it when you buy scrolls in Fel.

    I'm guessing they did something to manipulate it to show.  The other "Fencing" ones say Fishing in the description.  Every other one can be explained except that bait house one.  I'm suspecting an exploit.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,308
    This game has likely been doing this since 1997.  Pawain’s example is what I was thinking about when I first read this post.  Also, VS recognizes just strings of letters that don’t spell any word but might be found in a word. I search using those all the time.  Popp’s search string has all the letters contained in the word fencing.  Maybe, VS notices that too.  I get a similar result from some search I do.  That’s just the way UO works.  I use VS all the time and usually it works just fine when it’s actually working.  I very rarely have problems finding what I am searching for.  Just read the UO description very carefully before you buy.  I think in a game this old looking for logical answers that don’t exist anymore is going to be frustrating to some.
  • FeigrFeigr Posts: 492
    If that were true other Fencing scrolls would be showing up.  That house for that one is the house that has the PVPer camping it.  Either OP was trying to get people to go to the house or just genuinely didn't know.  I still think it's an exploit because of the house/vendor affected and no other Fencing scrolls showing up that don't have "Fishing" in the description.


  • FeigrFeigr Posts: 492


    There are other fencing scrolls.  Why is just that one showing if that were the case?
    2.png 243.5K
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,107
    @Feigr ; I think its that weird price.  Like someone said,  The search terms "legendary scroll fishing"  Contain the same letters as the fencing version.  But why only that scroll, there are other fencing scrolls?  The price is weird.  It is not the vendor name I don't think.

    You also get that fencing scroll when doing 120 scroll fishing.

    Maybe it had a description that said fishing but it is a ghost now.

    An anomaly. 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,253
    Another possibility could be that it did have a fishing description on it but got erased and the system still thinks it is there.  I have gone to vendors that had items for very low prices and when I get there the item is there but at a higher price.  How often does VS update items that are still on vendors, I know that when an item sells it take a little while to update that but does it update all items at that time.
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 910
    Popps. Did you email Mesanna to get an answer or was your first port of call here ?

    if you had a brain you would see that the answer to your question does NOT lay here 
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,950
    Pawain said:
    @ Feigr  I think its that weird price.  Like someone said,  The search terms "legendary scroll fishing"  Contain the same letters as the fencing version.  But why only that scroll, there are other fencing scrolls?  The price is weird.  It is not the vendor name I don't think.

    You also get that fencing scroll when doing 120 scroll fishing.

    Maybe it had a description that said fishing but it is a ghost now.

    An anomaly. 
    That is why I posted asking for a technical explaination, to understand.

    Because I cannot find a sense about why the search result would yield a fencing scroll when one searches for a fishing scroll.

    If this happens, I imagine, it might be because the code that governs Vendor Search allows it to happen... but, if so, why ?


  • poppspopps Posts: 3,950
    Lord_Frodo said:
    Another possibility could be that it did have a fishing description on it but got erased and the system still thinks it is there.  I have gone to vendors that had items for very low prices and when I get there the item is there but at a higher price.  How often does VS update items that are still on vendors, I know that when an item sells it take a little while to update that but does it update all items at that time.
    Is it possible to edit items' descriptions while the item is deposited in a Vendor's inventory ?

    I am not sure that this is possible... because, if the item gets retrieved into the player character's backpack to be edited, when it is then placed on the Vendor's backpack the item would not be able to any longer have any description that was removed, I imagine...
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,253
    edited March 25
    popps said:
    Another possibility could be that it did have a fishing description on it but got erased and the system still thinks it is there.  I have gone to vendors that had items for very low prices and when I get there the item is there but at a higher price.  How often does VS update items that are still on vendors, I know that when an item sells it take a little while to update that but does it update all items at that time.
    Is it possible to edit items' descriptions while the item is deposited in a Vendor's inventory ?

    I am not sure that this is possible... because, if the item gets retrieved into the player character's backpack to be edited, when it is then placed on the Vendor's backpack the item would not be able to any longer have any description that was removed, I imagine...
    With all the different programs out there who knows what is possible.  Why do you need a TECHNICAL explanation for something that appears to be a glitch?  Did you go there to buy it hoping it was a 120 fishing scroll.  Are you posting this to alert others so they are not scammed?  Are you even going to understand a technical explanation or are you going to endlessly question anything/everything that is said to you.  UO is not going to tell you or anyone else how this may have happened because then you would see a lot more of this type of thing, UO DOES NOT COMMENT ON EXPLOPITS how many times has this been stated.  Did you file a BUG REPORT or as normal come here for a babel post.

    As normal any other player would look at that and say VS farted oh well won't go buy that one and move on I would suggest you do the same.
  • FeigrFeigr Posts: 492
    We're just talking about it.  You're at a 11.  I need you at like a 2 or 3.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,950
    edited March 25
    popps said:
    Another possibility could be that it did have a fishing description on it but got erased and the system still thinks it is there.  I have gone to vendors that had items for very low prices and when I get there the item is there but at a higher price.  How often does VS update items that are still on vendors, I know that when an item sells it take a little while to update that but does it update all items at that time.
    Is it possible to edit items' descriptions while the item is deposited in a Vendor's inventory ?

    I am not sure that this is possible... because, if the item gets retrieved into the player character's backpack to be edited, when it is then placed on the Vendor's backpack the item would not be able to any longer have any description that was removed, I imagine...
    With all the different programs out there who knows what is possible.  Why do you need a TECHNICAL explanation for something that appears to be a glitch?  Did you go there to buy it hoping it was a 120 fishing scroll.  Are you posting this to alert others so they are not scammed?  Are you even going to understand a technical explanation or are you going to endlessly question anything/everything that is said to you.  UO is not going to tell you or anyone else how this may have happened because then you would see a lot more of this type of thing, UO DOES NOT COMMENT ON EXPLOPITS how many times has this been stated.  Did you file a BUG REPORT or as normal come here for a babel post.

    As normal any other player would look at that and say VS farted oh well won't go buy that one and move on I would suggest you do the same.
    I do not know about others but personally, I have not a clue whether this might be an EXPLOIT, a BUG, a simple malfunctioning of the Vendor Search engine or even whether this is "working as intended" for Vendor Search queries...

    I have not a clue, I just noticed it, and came to the Official Forums to be shed some light, if possible, by either fellow players, Forum Moderators or any of the Developers who, I imagine, from time to time might read Forum posts and threads like this.

    Is this such a bad thing for me to do, looking for some help to understand an in-game weird thing like this which I do not understand that I noticed ?
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,026
    popps said:
    popps said:
    Another possibility could be that it did have a fishing description on it but got erased and the system still thinks it is there.  I have gone to vendors that had items for very low prices and when I get there the item is there but at a higher price.  How often does VS update items that are still on vendors, I know that when an item sells it take a little while to update that but does it update all items at that time.
    Is it possible to edit items' descriptions while the item is deposited in a Vendor's inventory ?

    I am not sure that this is possible... because, if the item gets retrieved into the player character's backpack to be edited, when it is then placed on the Vendor's backpack the item would not be able to any longer have any description that was removed, I imagine...
    With all the different programs out there who knows what is possible.  Why do you need a TECHNICAL explanation for something that appears to be a glitch?  Did you go there to buy it hoping it was a 120 fishing scroll.  Are you posting this to alert others so they are not scammed?  Are you even going to understand a technical explanation or are you going to endlessly question anything/everything that is said to you.  UO is not going to tell you or anyone else how this may have happened because then you would see a lot more of this type of thing, UO DOES NOT COMMENT ON EXPLOPITS how many times has this been stated.  Did you file a BUG REPORT or as normal come here for a babel post.

    As normal any other player would look at that and say VS farted oh well won't go buy that one and move on I would suggest you do the same.
    I do not know about others but personally, I have not a clue whether this might be an EXPLOIT, a BUG, a simple malfunctioning of the Vendor Search engine or even whether this is "working as intended" for Vendor Search queries...

    I have not a clue, I just noticed it, and came to the Official Forums to be shed some light, if possible, by either fellow players, Forum Moderators or any of the Developers who, I imagine, from time to time might read Forum posts and threads like this.

    Is this such a bad thing for me to do, looking for some help to understand an in-game weird thing like this which I do not understand that I noticed ?
    No asking isn't bad debating every reply is 
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,950
    Grimbeard said:
    popps said:
    popps said:
    Another possibility could be that it did have a fishing description on it but got erased and the system still thinks it is there.  I have gone to vendors that had items for very low prices and when I get there the item is there but at a higher price.  How often does VS update items that are still on vendors, I know that when an item sells it take a little while to update that but does it update all items at that time.
    Is it possible to edit items' descriptions while the item is deposited in a Vendor's inventory ?

    I am not sure that this is possible... because, if the item gets retrieved into the player character's backpack to be edited, when it is then placed on the Vendor's backpack the item would not be able to any longer have any description that was removed, I imagine...
    With all the different programs out there who knows what is possible.  Why do you need a TECHNICAL explanation for something that appears to be a glitch?  Did you go there to buy it hoping it was a 120 fishing scroll.  Are you posting this to alert others so they are not scammed?  Are you even going to understand a technical explanation or are you going to endlessly question anything/everything that is said to you.  UO is not going to tell you or anyone else how this may have happened because then you would see a lot more of this type of thing, UO DOES NOT COMMENT ON EXPLOPITS how many times has this been stated.  Did you file a BUG REPORT or as normal come here for a babel post.

    As normal any other player would look at that and say VS farted oh well won't go buy that one and move on I would suggest you do the same.
    I do not know about others but personally, I have not a clue whether this might be an EXPLOIT, a BUG, a simple malfunctioning of the Vendor Search engine or even whether this is "working as intended" for Vendor Search queries...

    I have not a clue, I just noticed it, and came to the Official Forums to be shed some light, if possible, by either fellow players, Forum Moderators or any of the Developers who, I imagine, from time to time might read Forum posts and threads like this.

    Is this such a bad thing for me to do, looking for some help to understand an in-game weird thing like this which I do not understand that I noticed ?
    No asking isn't bad debating every reply is 
    How so ?

    Other then the OP, of the 21 posts so far in this thread only 5 are mine (aside this one) and in those posts I tried to better clarify my point of view.

    For example, if someone indicates that the item description has the word fishing in it, but the picture in my OP does not have it, shouldn't I have posted to point this out like I did here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/104462/#Comment_104462 ?
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 910
    pack it in Popps,  did you even buy the 120 fishing?
  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,987Moderator
    The simple answer, popps, is we don't know. You would have to know how the coding works to answer that one. We don't, and those that do have more pressing demands on their time.
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 1,843
    JackFlashUk said:
    pack it in Popps,  did you even buy the 120 fishing?

    Why doesn't he go earn one himself is the question . . .
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 294
    Victim_Of_Siege said:
    JackFlashUk said:
    pack it in Popps,  did you even buy the 120 fishing?

    Why doesn't he go earn one himself is the question . . .
    I 2nd this and I’m fully committed to seeing how this plays out.  


  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 802
    edited March 25
    The initial question was well formed.

    How it actually works, how it should work, and how it's "intended" to work aren't always the same thing.

    By observation, we can tell a few things about how it currently works.
    1. If you put a new item on a vendor, and optionally add a unique description "foobar", it takes a few minutes for the item to show up in vendor search.
    2. If you pull the item off the vendor, and put it back with a different price/description, it likewise takes a few minutes for vendor search to reflect the change.
    The way the "item name" field is searched/indexed seems "curious".  I would have thought it only checks the "item name" and perhaps seller description, but that appears false.  For instance:
    1. It appears any of the text in the item tooltip is actually searched.  You can search "weight" and it appears most/all items are returned.  Is it an oops to be indexing/searching fields that are not the item name and perhaps vendor listed description?
    2. Searching "intelligence" in the item name field also shows the same characteristic as above. Why that would be indexed, when you can search that as a stat match is curious.
    3. If you search for the text "item", you get results back that don't seem to match that search.  The same(?) results are returned if you search "ite".  So, it's not so obvious how much of the entered text is searched.
    Lastly, in my observations, when vendor search is not available, it's not available on all shards.  That's curious too.

    There is probably room for exploration and improvement.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,169
    I swung by the shop with a toon to reveal and I didnt see anyone in the 10min I spent trying to reveal everything. I also checked the bag it the scroll was in on the vendor and it looks pretty legit (from the player perspective) - the scroll is in a bag of other scrolls labeled "Combat". There is a mace fighting scroll that is around the same price. It looks like they use EC though bc of the way the items are placed in the bag (there are a lot of overlapping items). This might boil down to some sort of glitch in the system. Hard to say with a Dev to confirm.
  • FeigrFeigr Posts: 492
    ForeverFun said:
    The initial question was well formed.

    How it actually works, how it should work, and how it's "intended" to work aren't always the same thing.

    By observation, we can tell a few things about how it currently works.
    1. If you put a new item on a vendor, and optionally add a unique description "foobar", it takes a few minutes for the item to show up in vendor search.
    2. If you pull the item off the vendor, and put it back with a different price/description, it likewise takes a few minutes for vendor search to reflect the change.
    The way the "item name" field is searched/indexed seems "curious".  I would have thought it only checks the "item name" and perhaps seller description, but that appears false.  For instance:
    1. It appears any of the text in the item tooltip is actually searched.  You can search "weight" and it appears most/all items are returned.  Is it an oops to be indexing/searching fields that are not the item name and perhaps vendor listed description?
    2. Searching "intelligence" in the item name field also shows the same characteristic as above. Why that would be indexed, when you can search that as a stat match is curious.
    3. If you search for the text "item", you get results back that don't seem to match that search.  The same(?) results are returned if you search "ite".  So, it's not so obvious how much of the entered text is searched.
    Lastly, in my observations, when vendor search is not available, it's not available on all shards.  That's curious too.

    There is probably room for exploration and improvement.

    In this case, I don't think it was a timing thing either for your first two observations.  I checked a couple times yesterday hours apart.  And it's the house that has a PVPer camping in stealth that kills players buying from it.  That's why it's so terribly priced.

    Between those two things and the fact that not all fencing scrolls are showing up there, I suspect this was an intentional exploit for that PVPer to farm players.  I also suspect this thread was posted here conveniently to draw attention to the underpriced scroll.

    There's one scroll that is Fencing that does not also have "Fishing" in the manually entered text box.  And it's the bait house.

    There are other Fencing scrolls that do not have "Fishing" in the manually entered text box and those are not showing up on vendor search.  That's why I checked with a gap in the time between searches.  I went back to verify that there were indeed other Fencing scrolls. 
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,308
    edited March 26
    Popps after looking at all the responses to your thread, I have to conclude that everything presented points to the result of your search not being a system fluke, but a result created by a player that knows how to manipulate the system.  I think that is the answer to your question.  I would think behind the scenes UO would have someone looking into this.  The players here have provided more than enough evidence to strongly suggest that another player influenced the result of your search. 
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