Publish 117 - PvP Updates Discussion

Kyronix · February 16

For discussing PvP Updates in TC1. Please keep commentary specific to the changes made. Changes not specifically outlined in the publish notes are not appropriate for discussion in this thread. This will help focus feedback while not getting off topic of what is currently at hand. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation and testing assistance!

Cookie · February 18

Hello.
I'm not going to go onto TC1, because it does not do me much good, I'm not good at testing, I'm a player, I need to see and feel it ingame against real players. So I will only know for real, when it is implemented.
In the meantime however, my thoughts on what you have done.

-Fixed an issue where Shuriken & Darts could bypass the throw timer.
Great - if it does what it says on the tin, it is a fix.

-Removed the ability to evade damage for oneself.
-Explosion potions now display an animation when targeting.
Great - again, if it does what it says on the tin, it is a fix.

-Casting teleport from a ring now inflicts a 1-second paralysis effect.
This is helpful to quality of pvp.

Now for the critical one. As Evasion in certain combinations is creating a boring Meta.
-Increased diminishing returns for Evasion mechanics with each successful parry in PvP.
-The following spells and potions now apply an additional diminishing returns debuff against Evasion in PvP:

Necromancy Spells: Wither, Poison Strike.
Magery Spells: Meteor Swarm, Chain Lightning, Earthquake, Fire Field, Poison Field.
Mysticism Spells: Hail Storm, Nether Cyclone, Nether Blast.
Spellweaving Spells: Wildfire, Essence of Wind, Thunderstorm.
Potions: Explosion, Conflagration, Supernova.

Thoughts on this. I posted them in Discord, I will post them here.

What they have done there is interesting.
Basically, for all area affect spells/potions, they have added a debuff against evasion, clearly meant to reduce the power of evasion a bit.

For the Necro - I think poison strike is a great option, great spell anyway, and will now have the added bonus of reducing Evasion power.

For the alchemists, all those options are good, those potions are used.

For the mage and mystic - none of those options are great, none of them are really used in pvp naturally.

Spellweavers use Thunderstorm naturally, so Spellweavers gain, although it has huge mana cost.

So out of that list, in order, Necros, Alchemists, Spellweavers, Mages, Mystics stand to gain, in that order, by having an area affect ability to give a diminishing returns debuff to Evasion opponents.

I think Necros are a winner there - Poison Strike is an instant cast, although everyone can use Potions.

I think Mages and Mystics barely stand to gain, as their area effect spells take too long to cast in pvp for them to be able to use them in the relevant situation - remember the opponent is usually running away at the point of Evasion going off.

I think the feeling of some of us in Discord was - it is a good start, but we had hoped to see more.
But I'm glad something has been done, and lets see how this works - I really believe Pure Mages need more.

Urge · February 18

If you unnerf ninja and boost pure mages i'd pvp again.

Evasion has been a thorn in pvp since it came out. We're on like the 7th+ adjustment. Why not just do a set damage number like attunement and move on?

AtomicBetty · February 19

Urge said:

If you unnerf ninja and boost pure mages i'd pvp again.

Evasion has been a thorn in pvp since it came out. We're on like the 7th+ adjustment. Why not just do a set damage number like attunement and move on?

The sad thing is Evasion doesn't even need to be nerfed. Skill Point increase needs to be nerfed.

It's the same reason you can't buff ninjitsu skill point increase is to strong.

Skett · February 19

I agree with the skill points needing to be capped and not just for PvP

CovenantX · February 19

in order of importance (IMO)

1) Third-party clients/cheats. (never up for discussion, by far the worst thing in UO)

2) Parry- at least make a blocked attack cause spell interruption if the blocker is casting a spell.

(should also effect spell-casting while under the effects of evasion)

3) Skill point increase is a problem, it'll get much much worse as higher +skill items make their way into circulation.... surely we'll have 1000-1100 point templates as an average before the devs notice how bad it's gotten. (time will tell)

4) Focused Spec, should be restored to 30% SDI cap, all non-focus spec temps should stay at 20% SDI cap.

5) Armor Refinements -should no longer have an effect on player-sourced damage or defense chance vs other players. / Or, at least have the -DCI current as well as the cap, be decreased, so that a player refined for 75 all resistances, couldn't skimp out on magic properties because they'd only need 20 DCI on their suit to reach the cap, allowing them to have more skill point increase. -so that the player with a Cap DCI of 20, would start off at -25 DCI which would require them to have +45 DCI bonus from items/buffs etc to reach their DCI cap.

6) Splintering Weapon - Remove the bleed ticks from this proc and keep the slowing mechanic.-the bleed portion allows well-timed bandages to negate both effects anyway. -plus it causes the 'bleed' special to be useless when you get a better version of it for free by using a splintering weapon.

7) Trapped boxes (dart trap) should deal a minimum of 15 damage to the user, breaking paralyze should be a choice made by the player, instead, it does ~7 damage, which is much much less than anything the player would be hit by instead, just use a script to auto-pop the box cause it's the safest thing you could do every time.

8) Everything listed in the current publish notes are good, assuming they work as described, though it's disappointing there are issues discussed far older that haven't been looked at.

Maybe we can discuss Mana Drain again on TC? the last time This

Kyronix said:

Changes not specifically outlined in the publish notes are not appropriate for discussion in this thread.

was posted, and "mana drain" was brought up by a dev (Bleak) during the in-game discussion on TC1, it was documented on stratics, sadly most of the people I played with at that time have quit playing UO since, not because of that, but because of some of the things that keep popping up in discussions and nothing seems to be done to correct the issue(s).

popps · February 19

My opinion about PvP changes that might be needed, is that, to my viewing, the most important thing which would need to be addressed, I think, is the use of unauthorized Third Party utilities which, according to UO players who PvP, or would like to PvP but without using these Third Party unauthorized utilities, might give a significative advantage to those using them.

Just to mention one thing, as a mere example, the ability to "synchronize" spells onto the same one target, makes it hardly possible for that target to survive the attack... and this is only one example...

To my opinion, any changes that were to not do something about the ability of UO players to use unauthorized Third Party applications to provide significative advantages in PvP, would have a hard time to really achieve significant balancing in PvP.

At least, that is how I see it.

Lord_Frodo · February 19

Shameless bump. Why isn't this stickied to the top? @Kyronix @Mariah @Rorschach

AnglesWings · February 20

@Kyronix PLEASE ask anyone in this game right now, everybody will say that the new Waki need to be fixed! EVERY guild now is abusing this broken weapon, doing 50-60+ damage!

You should not be able to Splinter,Spark, or Bone Break with any special move toggled with exception to masteries... the concept behind the weapons are great and they open up many templates for mages, and dexxers. But its time to remove Splinter/Specials moves Sparks/WW.

AnglesWings · February 20

also everybody is current imbuing this weapon , because the sparkles is not counting as mod.

Dannydan · February 20

I personally believe that the adjustments proposed for Evade are overly severe. The ability to counter Evade with a disarm, which hinges on precise timing, should be considered. The proposed adjustments to explosive potions, darts, and teleportation rings are reasonable. However, Evade serves a specific role, and the extent of the nerf seems excessive, especially since it can be countered effectively. Unlike the other elements slated for nerfs, which lack direct countermeasures, Evade should be evaluated with its counterability in mind.

Crunch · February 20

Teleport ring change is very good. I think the 1 second pause time after a indisruptable cast is fair. It is the same cast time pause as the spell in general.

Evasion could use a slight change but i dont think it needs to be changed drastically for multiple reasons. 1. There is a counter to evasion Disarm. 2. It allows smaller groups of pvpers to fight larger groups of pvpers otherwise the larger groups will prevail at most fights. 3 The spell has been nerfed multiple times from the CD timer to the amount of damage/hits evaded soon enough the spell will become useless if it continues to be changed. You could make evasion scale off real bushido/parry instead of skill increase also as a small nerf to help.

Additionally the spells/potions that have been added to the diminishing returns list should be adjusted. Thunderstorm in particular can be casted at 4/6 casting it is also a undisruptable cast with a huge area effect and can be spammed theres no logical reason this spell should be apart of the list.

The dart nerf is very nice. There is no counterplay to someone spamming dp darts and shrukiens with little to no cooldown timer.

Lastly we need to address the new Waki that was released from the event Storm Lord's Steel.
This waki has the over cap lightning at 80% additionally it was given 30 sparks. Sparks when introduced was not supposed to activate on any weapon specials. Currently it is activating on Frienzied Whirlwind. This needs to be adjusted asap. You have this weapon now doing 4 different things on 1 hit. 1. You get the waki slow from the special. 2. You are getting massive damage from the activation of sparks and whirlwind damage. 3. You are getting a Energy based bleed that scales for more damage when someone is cursed. 4. You are getting a large chunk of mana back. This weapon is by far currently the best/ most op weapon being used right now.

AnglesWings · February 20

@Kyronix ; PLEASE, Read this, finally someone said what need to be said

Lastly we need to address the new Waki that was released from the event Storm Lord's Steel.
This waki has the over cap lightning at 80% additionally it was given 30 sparks. Sparks when introduced was not supposed to activate on any weapon specials. Currently it is activating on Frienzied Whirlwind. This needs to be adjusted asap. You have this weapon now doing 4 different things on 1 hit.

1. You get the waki slow from the special.

2. You are getting massive damage from the activation of sparks and whirlwind damage.

3. You are getting a Energy based bleed that scales for more damage when someone is cursed. 4. You are getting a large chunk of mana back.

This weapon is by far currently the best/ most op weapon being used right now.

Lynk · February 20

One second is too short of a delay on Tele rings. It's uninterruptible, it should either be 3 seconds or have the same delay as a teleport being casted in protection (0 fc).

Paithan · February 21

Here are my comments:

1. Fixed an issue where Shuriken & Darts could bypass the throw timer.- Good that was clearly broken.

2.Removed the ability to evade damage for oneself- This seems oddly targeted at explosion pots being evaded. I think you should be able to evade damage on yourself (and add to DR). It is not easy to pull off and also there is risk vs reward on doing that move. It is great when someone evades. Gets hit with a para shot and then evades the tick from their box so they have to sit through it. Might want to rethink this change.

3.Explosion potions now display an animation when targeting- Add some sort of animation for when they start the timer. Most people click them in their backpack and let them blowup on themselves and you won't know it is coming until they explode. Waiting for them to click a target does not help that issue.

4. Casting teleport from a ring now inflicts a 1-second paralysis effect. The rings should be at 0 fc speed. Perhaps let them be cast at the FC level of whoever is using the ring, but base should be 0.

5.Increased diminishing returns for Evasion mechanics with each successful parry in PvP- Impossible to comment on this as it has never been properly explained how it is supposed to work. Last time the devs said they were nerfing evasion with DR absolutely nothing changed. We need to know how it works. Such as: is there a maximum amount of evades someone can get on one evasion? 2. Is there a maximum amount of damage total that evasion can soak up? 3. What is the calculation for DR after each evade and how does each spell affect it? Without knowing that- it is useless to try to test it to see if it is working as intended.

Randytheman · February 21

I went on the test center and messed around with the changes listed in the patch notes and I'll start there.

Explosion potion: They seemed to be fine. The new animation should give chances for counter play. Evasion not proc'ing on self inflicted damage makes this a much more risky maneuver as well. I think this is a good change and fine where it's at.

Tele Rings: The 1 second paralysis might be enough to discourage people from using them but I'm not 100% sold. I think legacy items that are no longer obtainable and have potentially large effects in PvP shouldn't have a place. I think leaving it at 1 second is fine but it needs to be interruptible so we have some ability for counter play. If it being interruptible is too difficult a change to code, a much longer cast time, like 3 seconds as Lynk posted above will make the risk of using them significant enough to discourage their ubiquitous use.

Poison Shurikens/Darts: I think the 5 seconds between each dart/shuriken throw is a move in the right direction. I noticed though that if you use a dart/shuriken, it prevents you from using another dart/shuriken from that same fukiya/belt indefinitely unless you unload/reload that fukiya/belt. To me that feels like a bug, not a feature. If it is a feature the only thing I see it accomplishing is making builds that use Shurikens/Darts so cumbersome to play that only those who automate part of the process will be able to effectively use it. To address this I suggest leaving the 5 seconds between throws of each dart/shuriken but removing any penalties associated with having to unload/reload each fukiya/belt after one use.

Evasion: I was worried when I read the patch notes that maybe it was too much of a nerf but after testing it I think it's in an ok place where it's at on the test center. If I received a spell dump from a group of casters and they used single target spells as is common in PvP today, it didn't feel much different than how it feels on live. I'd see 5, 6, 7 evades sometimes depending on RNG. If the casters mixed in area spells like hail storm, chain lightning, supernova, thunderstorm or wind I would usually see 3 evades, occasionally only 2, occasionally 4. This felt like it would save you if you were aware and running away from the spell dump but it probably wouldn't save you if it was like 10 people dumping on you or you stood around and ate multiple spells from the same spell dump. If its too much of a nerf, it's barely too much and just needs to be toned down a little.

Ok, that covers the stuff currently on the patch notes for the Test Center but I do want to mention a couple things for a couple different reasons.

Storm Lords Steel: The last PvP discussion thread took place from Sep 2023 to Dec 2023. That didn't leave a lot of time to comment on Storm Lords Steel. It hadn't had enough time to make it's impact. That being said, it's way out of line with other weapons. It's single target damage potential is as high as builds that stack tactics, anatomy, damage increase and use two handed weapons. For how few points you have to invest to get that damage and the fact that it's coming from a one handed weapon, it needs to be nerfed. That doesn't even mention the fact that it has a bleed effect tacked on the end or the fact that it returns a lot of mana to the user. I think two things need to happen with this weapon. The first is that sparks needs to not proc on weapon specials as it currently does. The second is it needs to not return mana, at least not nearly as much mana.

Ward Removal Talismans: I was taking a break from the game during the last PvP discussion thread from Sep 2023 to Dec 2023 or I would have definitely mentioned this. These items are broken and furthermore have no place in PvP. They shouldn't be able to be used on players. You don't need any skill to equip/use them. You are only limited by how many you can carry. They remove SIX buffs. They can be used while moving. You can use it on someone without flagging them. No line of sight check is performed during use so you can ward remove someone in their house. You can ward remove a blue in guard zone and not turn grey/get guard whacked. The only range check performed is that the player is registered on your screen so 24 tiles away. They are cumbersome to use so there is a bias towards people who automate their use. In other words, completely busted and very overpowered in PvP. That being said Spellweaving buffs (Mana Shield, Gift of Renewal, Attunement) are very powerful defensive tools and one of the only effective counters are ward removal talismans. So I feel like a change with Ward Removal Talismans needs to come with either a nerf to Spellweaving buffs akin to the evasion changes OR a significant buff to Mysticism's Purge Magic to make it closer in functionality to what ward removal talismans are doing so we have counter play. Currently Ward Removal Talismans remove 6 wards and after you use the item on a player, another Ward Removal Talisman cannot be used on that player again for 20 seconds. Currently Mysticism's Purge Magic has a chance to remove 1 ward and the person who got purged has an immunity of 6 seconds provided he has Max Resisting Spells and the caster has Max Mysticism/Focus. I suggest having Purge Magic be a 7th or 8th tier spell with cast times and mana costs appropriate for that tier of spell but giving it the ability to remove 6 wards and putting a 30 second immunity on the player it was cast on.

CovenantX · February 21

Why not just hard cap the amount of attacks that can be evaded based on each individual attacker.

This way, if you're fighting 1 person, you could say evade a maximum of 2 damaging-attacks, if you're fighting 2+ people, you could evade up to 2 damaging-attacks from each of them.

No need for +/- diminishing returns, or a change to the duration.

Summoned · February 22

The storm sword should be left alone. Finally, a weapon that can harm shield-carrying mages. The negative feedback is just coming from people who are not happy with losing to pure dexxers. The Pure Dexxer hasn't had a win since AOS. With all the top gear these days, it's needed. People complaining about damage should remember bok mages can do just as much damage.

I would like to suggest adding new items for VVV. The current ones are outdated and do not provide any incentive to participate in town activities.

I would also like to request points for VVV, similar to the silver points we used to receive. It would be great to have bragging rights for kills we make outside of towns.

Summoned · February 22

Could you please stop making everything shard bound? Shields took 14 years to obtain and now they are becoming worthless.

CovenantX · February 22

Summoned said:

The storm sword should be left alone. Finally, a weapon that can harm shield-carrying mages. The negative feedback is just coming from people who are not happy with losing to pure dexxers. The Pure Dexxer hasn't had a win since AOS. With all the top gear these days, it's needed. People complaining about damage should remember bok mages can do just as much damage.

I would like to suggest adding new items for VVV. The current ones are outdated and do not provide any incentive to participate in town activities.

I would also like to request points for VVV, similar to the silver points we used to receive. It would be great to have bragging rights for kills we make outside of towns.

Fix parry, and the 'Sparks' property..

Cody · February 25

Evasion adjustment seems to be working much better. Maybe look at adding explosion to the list of spells to DR it? I think also should look at evasions' effectiveness on a hybrid template vs pure dexxer template. I Think evasion should stay in its close to current state on pure melee bush/parry characters as their offense is limited to melee range, having to put themselves in close combat and easy to target situations, unlike the hybrid templates that have the ranged capabilities with the defense of evasion.

I think change to tele rings will help aid the nonsense. I think something that should be looked at is reverting the riding swipe nerf that happened a few years ago. Obviously intended to be able to be toggled while riding.. Hence Riding swipe. I think this will help combat the teleport ring dismount from archers.

I also concur the waki just needs to be tuned a bit. Not sure if it was intended to be able to be imbued fully to what it is. Nice to have a weapon other than a bokuto as a melee character that can deal a good amount of damage though. maybe look at ability to add spell channeling with imbuing property weight of sparks?

I disagree with ward removal talismans needing nerfed. Having to sacrifice stats of talisman(HCI, DCI, ETC.) to do this. It is an effective way to combat the hyrbid templates using so many buffs to maintain parry chances, potion buffs to maintain max stats, etc. Everything removed from this can be easily reapplied.

All in all the first round of new changes appear to look good, I just hope this isn't the ONLY changes happening in pub 117. Been quite a few years for any changes, and if some hotfixes to a few things are the highlight of this publish it will be quite discouraging to many people.

CovenantX · March 2

the diminishing returns with evasion should be triggered by every 'evade' regardless of what triggered the *evades*, to me, it feels like the devs are trying to make some 'under-used' spells more appealing, but only to fight the 'meta' template, and that's definitely the wrong reason.

If you want those AoE spells to be more appealing, buff them in some way, don't make them mainly usable as a means exploit a weakness that shouldn't even exist in the first place.

This only benefits group pvp, and the reason group pvp is basically the only pvp that exists anymore, is because people have become more and more difficult to kill (gear, cheats & endless running like b***h)..... nerf the f**k out of Parry (for spell-casters) already, so one vs one can actually be fun again.

most of the spells listed that increase the DR to evade aren't used in normal pvp... Hailstorm is used by mystics more commonly than all the other spells, the consumables, mainly.conflags are used by most players even non-alchemists, the patch notes doesn't specify if alchemy is needed to trigger the evade DR or not (nor should alchemy be required) , cause evade-/parry-mages shouldn't be a thing to begin with.

Nerve-strike on a mage should be good enough, with the 'confidence' heal-on-the-move (Bushido) as another defensive/recovery perk... why the hell do they (Mages+Parry +/- Bushido) have the best defense combined with the best offense in the game Still?

Cookie · March 17

@CovenantX - Who actually 1v1's?

Who ever 1v1'nd?

Order vs Chaos.
Factions.
Champion Spawns.
Harrowers.
Vice vs Virtue.

All of the most meaningful and fun PvP, has been group PvP.

Yes the concept of 1v1 is nice, for sure. But where does it really fit in?

The Devs asked a long time ago - how should PvP be balanced, and the response was, for group play.

Cookie · March 17

Summoned said:

Could you please stop making everything shard bound? Shields took 14 years to obtain and now they are becoming worthless.

I agree.

It is hurting PvPers, it was always going to hurt PvPers.

We need the gear, we need to move it around.

Cookie · March 17

and ironically - it is EM Items causing most of the issues, and they were not touched...

I would say priorities, or the voices they listen to, have a different agenda.

I personally, also do not want the EM items touched, as I profit (ingame) from that concept, and like the fact Rares can be moved around to Collectors, but the same concept should hold true for PvPers.

CovenantX · March 17

Cookie said:

@ CovenantX - Who actually 1v1's?

Now? no one, that's the problem everyone's got so much damage mitigation, and no one wants to spend 20 minutes chasing bad pvpers.

parry/evade allows you to survive 5+ people, what makes you think anyone wants to waste their time to one vs one it?

fun fights are long gone continuing on the route of doing nothing to curb cheating..

I mean, didn't you start a thread where you're using an illegal client? (or whoever recorded the fight) Btw. if you played UO as long as you say you have, you'd know one vs ones were very popular.... mostly the mage vs mage variation. you know, back when there were fightnights almost every week.... duel tournaments... there used to be GM and later EM hosted pvp tournaments. long gone now, cause they know what it has become. -not to mention player hosted tournaments. not much (any of that) anymore.

keven2002 · March 17

CovenantX said:

Cookie said:

@ CovenantX - Who actually 1v1's?

Now? no one, that's the problem everyone's got so much damage mitigation, and no one wants to spend 20 minutes chasing bad pvpers.

I used to love the 1on1 mage duels and I even enjoyed the faction fights 15+ years ago where it was a group fight but it was kind of splintered where you'd have a few different pockets rather than everyone targeting the same person.

I think the biggest change, in my opinion, was the addition of scripts where everything is timed perfectly every single time which completely takes any skill out of 1 on 1 fighting. Combine that with the evolution of so many hybrid templates (and items/stats to go along with them) the damage output became so high that there needed to be some sort of damage mitigation counter.

I don't think 1 on 1 is coming back unless the team starts to action people using scripts. I refuse to fight people using a script because for me it's almost impossible to kill them when they are auto popping boxes / chugging pots / swapping to a heal wand / etc... it's not fun. That's not to say everyone uses scripts but I really don't have desire to figure out who is and who isn't when I'm out running around in Fel.

CovenantX · March 17

keven2002 said:

CovenantX said:

Cookie said:

@ CovenantX - Who actually 1v1's?

Now? no one, that's the problem everyone's got so much damage mitigation, and no one wants to spend 20 minutes chasing bad pvpers.

I used to love the 1on1 mage duels and I even enjoyed the faction fights 15+ years ago where it was a group fight but it was kind of splintered where you'd have a few different pockets rather than everyone targeting the same person.

I think the biggest change, in my opinion, was the addition of scripts where everything is timed perfectly every single time which completely takes any skill out of 1 on 1 fighting. Combine that with the evolution of so many hybrid templates (and items/stats to go along with them) the damage output became so high that there needed to be some sort of damage mitigation counter.

I don't think 1 on 1 is coming back unless the team starts to action people using scripts. I refuse to fight people using a script because for me it's almost impossible to kill them when they are auto popping boxes / chugging pots / swapping to a heal wand / etc... it's not fun. That's not to say everyone uses scripts but I really don't have desire to figure out who is and who isn't when I'm out running around in Fel.

I did too, dueling used to be one of my favorite things to do in UO. pvp in general was always fun (still is at times) but mostly nothing like it was.

when players get enough damage mitigation to almost 'force' group pvp and those players skills are compensated by cheats one vs one phases out, non-cheaters phase/quit out and this is what you're left with.

a guildy of mine about a year ago, decided to try "O client" to see how garbage it was, they quit for a different game within a few weeks of using it. only saw them maybe twice after their accounts became EJ activated.

the last third-party client (assistant) I logged into, was UOS****m, literally just to try and replicate & report a client crash involving that client & general chat so it could get fixed. at the time my guild/alliance (4 guilds made up of the same ~8-10 people) were warring a guild at the time and the opposing guild started using the crash to try and get ahead, and the only reason we were able to tell what happened, was because 2 of the people in our guild were using EC which was unaffected by the crash at the time. so they'd hear form like 4-5 of us 'I just cliented" and they saw what happened when we crashed. then again, around the time when 'pre-aos stunpunch & disarm' were used, replicate/report as well, and to the devs credit, both of those issues were fixed within a week or two of reporting it.

strange enough, some of the people who were abusing the stun-punch (pre-aos version) whined that if the devs fixed it, no one would be able to kill anybody again... I recall some people saying the same thing about supernova potions when there was a delay to the explosion being added to em (though you didn't need to cheat to use those consistently) I'd say they were correct to some extent... but you shouldn't have to cheat to kill players in the first place.

Grimbeard · March 17

CovenantX said:

keven2002 said:

CovenantX said:

Cookie said:

@ CovenantX - Who actually 1v1's?

   Now? no one, that's the problem     everyone's got so much damage mitigation, and no one wants to spend 20 minutes chasing bad pvpers.

I used to love the 1on1 mage duels and I even enjoyed the faction fights 15+ years ago where it was a group fight but it was kind of splintered where you'd have a few different pockets rather than everyone targeting the same person.

I think the biggest change, in my opinion, was the addition of scripts where everything is timed perfectly every single time which completely takes any skill out of 1 on 1 fighting. Combine that with the evolution of so many hybrid templates (and items/stats to go along with them) the damage output became so high that there needed to be some sort of damage mitigation counter.

I don't think 1 on 1 is coming back unless the team starts to action people using scripts. I refuse to fight people using a script because for me it's almost impossible to kill them when they are auto popping boxes / chugging pots / swapping to a heal wand / etc... it's not fun. That's not to say everyone uses scripts but I really don't have desire to figure out who is and who isn't when I'm out running around in Fel.

    I did too, dueling used to be one of my favorite things to do in UO. pvp in general was always fun (still is at times) but mostly nothing like it was.

when players get enough damage mitigation to almost 'force' group pvp and those players skills are compensated by cheats one vs one phases out, non-cheaters phase/quit out and this is what you're left with.

   a guildy of mine about a year ago, decided to try "O client" to see how garbage it was, they quit for a different game within a few weeks of using it. only saw them maybe twice after their accounts became EJ activated.

the last third-party client (assistant) I logged into, was UOS****m, literally just to try and replicate & report a client crash involving that client & general chat so it could get fixed.   at the time my guild/alliance (4 guilds made up of the same ~8-10 people) were warring a guild at the time and the opposing guild started using the crash to try and get ahead, and the only reason we were able to tell what happened, was because 2 of the people in our guild were using EC which was unaffected by the crash at the time. so they'd hear form like 4-5 of us 'I just cliented" and they saw what happened when we crashed. then again, around the time when 'pre-aos stunpunch & disarm' were used, replicate/report as well, and to the devs credit, both of those issues were fixed within a week or two of reporting it.

strange enough, some of the people who were abusing the stun-punch (pre-aos version) whined that if the devs fixed it, no one would be able to kill anybody again... I recall some people saying the same thing about supernova potions when there was a delay to the explosion being added to em (though you didn't need to cheat to use those consistently) I'd say they were correct to some extent... but you shouldn't have to cheat to kill players in the first place.

Now imagine through all this a new player trying to get into pvp

CovenantX · March 17

Grimbeard said:

Now imagine through all this a new player trying to get into pvp

Yep, won't be much new blood in pvp with the way things are.... most "new pvpers" aren't new at all, they're the ones that come back from free shards here and there, and they're already running the third-party clients.

AtomicBetty · March 25

It's kind of weird to say that Feedback about upcoming changes is crucial yet the dev's don't ever acknowledge feedback so people don't bother to give it anymore.

Open communication about changes is required so the fixes that get implemented are the right ones. It just appears the dev's stopped caring about Player Feedback.

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Publish 117 - PvP Updates Discussion

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