Pub 105 - Treasure Map Update Phase I *See new thread!*

Sliss

JenniferMarie said:

-- I disagree.

I like that Fel is the only place you can obtain Powerscrolls.

Putting Powerscrolls inside treasure chests combined with the ability to bind scrolls up and make higher ones? You will already have a decrease in Powerscroll prices within 2 weeks of the publish going live.

And that would be a good thing. Pet revamp greatly increased demand without corresponding increase in supply of power scrolls. Result is the obscene prices we see today. Getting them loweredis the step in the right direction.

but even I have to admit that the PvPers are a big reason this game is able to keep going for all of us.

That is highly debatable. Per UO post-mortem video, PvPers were ( and most likely still are) responsible for an enormous outflow of players from the game.

If you give people the ability to get Powerscrolls outside of Fel? Then PvPers will lose a large part of their fun, and it will be a short time (alarmingly short) before there is another mass exodus of players from UO.

The fun that you describe is killing players that are forced to participate in an activity that they do not find enjoyable. THIS is how you get a mass exodus of players, not by encouraging a griefing mechanic. Personally, I would like power scrolls to be available on all facets not because doing Fel maps is difficult, but because these maps are small enough proportion of maps overall. Combine that with the cap of 115, and the scroll prices will probably remain way higher than they should be.

Faeryl

Margrette said:

We're all made differently. And some of us are really tired of being treated like we're defective in some way because we aren't interested in PvPing, either solo or as part of a group.   I try not to get involved in the discussions about PvP and power scrolls.  But I'm really tired of people being bashed in these threads because they don't want to PvP.  Can you just lay off with the incredulity for a bit, please?

I don't like or want to pvp, either. At least outside of my RP. I'm not a fan of it. But at the same time, I understand and accept that I can and will possibly at some point get the crap beaten out of me for treasure hunting in Felucca. That's the risk I take in going there for things I can't get elsewhere. Before powerscrolls it was the SoTs that were Fel specific in terms of treasure hunting. 

I'm not treating anyone like they're defective as you state. I merely don't get why people feel that if they don't want to do something like go to Fel to get something like a powerscroll, that those who would like it and are fine with the risk should be punished and not allowed to have it, which is exactly what Tarragon stated.

"I don't want to take the risk, so make it so I can do it risk free, or essentially don't let anyone be allowed to get them."

Edit: Let me also add that I, like most other people I'm sure, would love to be able to get powerscrolls risk free, but I also know they're never going to add them to Trammel. So I'll take the bone I'm thrown if it means I can avoid the more likely to be monitored champ spawns.

Margrette

@Kyronix, here are results from doing 12 stash-level chests in Trammel using a character with 600 luck on her suit:

1. There were 2 artisan chests, 1 assassin chest, 4 barbarian chests, 2 mage chests, 1 ranger chest, and 2 warrior chests.
2. Every single chest came up as a gold chest.
3. Character had no mining skill but GM cartography skill.  When she was wearing a talisman with 21% cartography bonus, locating chests (using Davies Locker coordinates for a general location) was pretty quick.  Without the talisman on, it often took 4-6 tries to find the chest.
4. None of the chests contained a treasure map.
5. Only one of the 12 chests contained a SoT (0.3 macing from a Barbarian chest). 
6. Both artisan chests had an assortment of 6 refinement components (neatly packaged in their own small crate) and 50 boards or ingots (bloodwood and verite for these two).
7. Both mage chests had a reagent bag with 60 of each reagent.These were dug up in Trammel, so they were magery reagents only.
8. None of the 7 barbarian, warrior, or assassin chests included essences or Mondains Legacy ingredients. 
9. Out of 12 chests, 7 chests (or 58% of them) had nothing in them but a bag of gems and gold. 
10. Two of the chests had the situation where the first chest raised part way and stopped and then I had to target the area again to raise another chest.  Was able to open the second chest in each case.
11. Almost none of the maps was correctly identified in the locker as to which profession package they were.  The profession package info would say one thing in the locker and something else once the map was in the character's backpack. These were all maps that I transferred over to TC outside of the Davey's Locker earlier this evening, so there was no error message of any kind once I loaded them in the locker.

I realize most people probably won't worry about the stash level maps.  However, since we've been given the impression they should (other than Ranger ones) include ingredients useful for crafting (or casting) and SoTs, I know I will probably do them fairly often. I am at this point disappointed that so few included anything other than gold and small gems.  Do we need to do them in Fel to have a better chance to get anything but gold and gems? And I wonder what the gold amounts will be on stash chests that aren't gold.  Or is it not an anomaly that all of them came up as gold chests?  Is that the plan for stash chests??

I will try to do some of the Supply and Cache level chests tomorrow.  I'm not a very good treasure hunter, so I would struggle with anything higher and it's hard for me to catch friends online at the same time I'm on anymore to try to do the tougher maps.  I'm keeping track of my results in the spreadsheet I linked to earlier (sheet 3).  Would still appreciate if you could give it a look to see if what I put down for contents is correct or way off base.  Thanks.  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17SHMAEYnwRJ1o6e_16ov9JKue0DnHi1FzHnxOt-bI8g/edit?usp=sharing

Margrette

Faeryl said:

Margrette said:

We're all made differently. And some of us are really tired of being treated like we're defective in some way because we aren't interested in PvPing, either solo or as part of a group.   I try not to get involved in the discussions about PvP and power scrolls.  But I'm really tired of people being bashed in these threads because they don't want to PvP.  Can you just lay off with the incredulity for a bit, please?

I don't like or want to pvp, either. At least outside of my RP. I'm not a fan of it. But at the same time, I understand and accept that I can and will possibly at some point get the crap beaten out of me for treasure hunting in Felucca. That's the risk I take in going there for things I can't get elsewhere. Before powerscrolls it was the SoTs that were Fel specific in terms of treasure hunting. 

I'm not treating anyone like they're defective as you state. I merely don't get why people feel that if they don't want to do something like go to Fel to get something like a powerscroll, that those who would like it and are fine with the risk should be punished and not allowed to have it, which is exactly what Tarragon stated.

"I don't want to take the risk, so make it so I can do it risk free, or essentially don't let anyone be allowed to get them."

Edit: Let me also add that I, like most other people I'm sure, would love to be able to get powerscrolls risk free, but I also know they're never going to add them to Trammel. So I'll take the bone I'm thrown if it means I can avoid the more likely to be monitored champ spawns.

I don't plan to do them in Fel.  I have no tolerance or time for jerks anymore, in or outside of UO.  Life is too short to deliberately go out of my way to be harrassed.  Just not into it at this stage in my life. I play to relax, not to raise my blood pressure any higher than it already is.   And yeah, I know that means I don't get the better rewards.  Not happy about it, but I mostly try to keep my mouth shut about it anymore because saying anything just makes people turn on me and as already stated, I just don't need that in my life anymore.   I have not used power scrolls on any of my pets and I don't buy gold from third parties to buy power scrolls on Atlantic or anywhere else.  I just do without anymore.  Not going to put my money in anyone else's pocket and not going to spend anything more on UO than subscription fees.

Violet

Margrette said:

We're all made differently. And some of us are really tired of being treated like we're defective in some way because we aren't interested in PvPing, either solo or as part of a group.   I try not to get involved in the discussions about PvP and power scrolls.  But I'm really tired of people being bashed in these threads because they don't want to PvP.  Can you just lay off with the incredulity for a bit, please?

Time's i've been pked while doing a tmap in Felucca... 0.  Times i've been attacked... 0.  Unless you are doing one on Atlantic around the Yew Moongate, the odds of being found are not that high.  This gives people a chance to get power scrolls without entering into a fel dungeon and without having a champ spawn template.  To me that is a win for all players willing to take that very low risk.  I think people need to assess just why they are so scared of Felucca.  I run around overland Felucca all the time on our home server, almost never see a soul except the occasional person in their home.  And for the record, I have no desire to pvp and have not pvp'd in probably 13 years.

I would have to question the true motives of someone who says not to put them in Felucca treasure chests.

Tanager

My character on TC1 still has the ''you are already digging'' bug. Since the patch notes imply this was fixed, does that mean currently bugged chars are just toast and need to be re-rolled, or was that a different broken character fix? I don't know all the bugs so I might be assuming incorrectly.

Thanks.

Tanager

In my opinion, going to Fel and getting murdered is an excellent way to learn coping skills. You get used to it, and eventually come to the realization that possessions are replaceable, and how YOU respond to the actions of others is entirely within your own power. And then the skin of your ego gets a bit thicker and life is much easier to deal with.

If people cannot make that leap, however, then ok. Let those people who can deal with it get the PS, and you buy them. I can't stand to go mining, I find it horribly tedious. So I buy ingots from a player. It is the same concept.

Adding the PS to chests is a fantastic idea. The risk is very low, and it will loosen the vice-like grip that PvPers have on the PS market. It will still take time to get enough 110/115 to bind a 120, so it will not crash the market. Champion spawns will continue to give 12 scrolls at once, with a chance at 120s. This is a really good balance.

PvMers are getting a nice add, and the only ones complaining... are the PvMers.

popps

Bilbo said:

@ Kyronix after reading all the posts I have 1 suggestion and one very important question.

#1 Suggestion  is why can't we just take the Treasure Chest with us?

and 

#2 Very Important Question  How is LUCK going to come into play with T-Hunters with all these changes and please do not say LUCK is being taken out of T-Hunting.

Also @KHAN and @Rhombus ;

Check out this Post https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/24558/#Comment_24558

According to the information given on https://uo.com/wiki/publish-105-forgotten-treasures/

To my understanding Luck is NOT a factor in the Quality of the Loot.

Which it makes a WHOLE lot of sense considering how players now will ALREADY need to get stressed to adjust their Template for the extra points needed for Remove Trap....

Further stressing Treasure Hunting Templates to ALSO have to accomodate Luck in their suits would be, to my thinking, too much to ask, frankly....

popps

IDreamInCode said:

Making Remove Trap a required skill is an absolutely horrible idea... please don't make me quit again! Also, everyone should stop whining about Powerscrolls only being available in Fel maps... with great risk comes great reward!

"with great risk comes great reward!"

EXCUSE ME ?

May I ask WHERE is the great risk for that PvPer who comes, AFTER the PvMer has done 99% of the work needed to work the spawn, kills the PvMer and takes all of the scrolls ?

WHERE is the risk for that PvPer ?

I see none.

Yet, they get not only the rewards, but doing only 1% of the work associated with them !!!

And this should even be balanced ?

Please...........

Tanager

As stated in the patch notes:

• Chests have a chance to contain the following loot items based on level, package, and facet,
  • Gold & Gems in newly drawn gold & gem bags (all packages, all levels)
  • Randomly Generated Equipment (all packages, Cache and above)
    • The types of equipment are based on the package and facet which corresponds to the profession who might use the equipment and the facet based on when the item was released in the game.  For example, if you are looking for a dagger you may look at Assassin maps in Trammel or if you are after a Repeating Crossbow you would look at Ranger maps in Malas.
    • The quantity of randomly generated magic equipment has been reduced and the intensity has been increased.

    The quantity of items available is based on the level of chest, there is a chance for additional items based on party size.

popps

JenniferMarie said:

popps said:

Other players, the vast majority of them, had only the alternative to stick them into mindless and absurd grinds elsewhere in order to be able to then afford those absurd prices that the Monopoly of Powerscrolls pushed them to reach...

OF COURSE that it would be a blessing for Ultima Online if Powerscrolls' prices where to drop !!

It would mean less inflation, less grinding by players and, thus, less players quitting UO for being burnt out by too much grinding....

At least, that is the way I see it.

-- Then do what this Trammie Girl does: go work spawns and earn your own Powerscrolls.

I have to bind up scrolls at least once every two weeks or else my books get full. I currently have:

120 Anatomy x4
120 Focus x1

120 Parrying x2

120 Tactics x3

120 Wrestling x3

120 Magery x3

120 Meditation x2

120 Resist Spells x2

120 Discordance x1

Those are the most expensive scrolls in game. This isn't counting the 110's or 115's at all.

So no, getting powerscrolls is NOT a problem if you're willing to go get them yourself. Adding pwoerscrolls to Fel treasure chests is just giving people a chance to get them in more places - thus give people the chance to bind up faster and flood the market with more scrolls.

Dropping prices.

If people aren't willing to go earn their own scrolls for free, then they need to stop complaining about prices set by those who are willing.

What Shard do you play ?

Is it a Shard with a lower then average number of PvPers and thus you have less chances as elsewhere of getting Raided ?

Are you friend with PvPers who let you be and get your scrolls with ease because they do not bother you with Raiding your character at Champ Spawns (or perhaps even help you, sometimes...) ?

There is quite a number of significative variables which may affect the ability of a player to gather their own Powerscrolls....

The fact that for you this might be possible, not necessarily means that for another player it "should" likewise be possible....

Perhaps their Shard of play has an above average number of PvPers who raid Champ Spawns too often, perhaps they are not friend with them nor want to be and this causes them a much higher chance of getting Raided.

That one player can do something, it does not necessarily mean that this is possible for all players.

Circumstances may vary, and significantly too.

Faeryl

popps said:

"with great risk comes great reward!"

EXCUSE ME ?

May I ask WHERE is the great risk for that PvPer who comes, AFTER the PvMer has done 99% of the work needed to work the spawn, kills the PvMer and takes all of the scrolls ?

WHERE is the risk for that PvPer ?

I see none.

Yet, they get not only the rewards, but doing only 1% of the work associated with them !!!

And this should even be balanced ?

Please...........

You're arguing from a very weird angle. The risk is with the PvMer who chooses to go to Felucca knowing that they could either come out of it with the reward, or lose it to a PvPer.

The risk with the PvPer, is being attacked by other PvPers. This has... literally always been the case with Felucca. How is this any different than champ spawn raids, idoc raids, resource farming, dungeons, bosses, or literally anything else that occurs there?

Abbarosh

Tanager said:

My character on TC1 still has the ''you are already digging'' bug. Since the patch notes imply this was fixed, does that mean currently bugged chars are just toast and need to be re-rolled, or was that a different broken character fix? I don't know all the bugs so I might be assuming incorrectly.

Thanks.

 I made a new character and dont have that problem anymore , your character is bugged 

popps

Faeryl said:

Tarragon_Slayer said:

A treasure hunter's template and equipment are focused on finding treasure, digging it up, killing the guardians and then emptying the chest, correct? So, where are they to find the room in their template to add the skills necessary to survive a PvP attack? Please, either put the power scrolls in chests on any facet, or don't add them at all.

If you're that concerned about a pvp attack, maybe go with a group? Ask friends to join in and help you out? Or suck it up like the rest of us who are willing to take the risk of getting the crap beaten out of us for the reward of a powerscroll.

Fel is about risk versus reward, right? There's no risk if there's no reward to go after.

Honestly, I don't get the whole "I don't want to do it, so no one should get it" mentality.

The HURTING issue, and not just for players, but for Ultima Online, the GAME itself, is, at least to my viewing, an inflationary economy.

Why, IMHO an inflationary economy in a MMO is VERY bad ?

Because I think it FORCES players into mindless grinds in order to "catch up" and be able to afford the outrageous high prices which given items have, like for example Powerscrolls, for which there is exclusivity on a Facet, Felucca, and a MONOPOLY of a very very limited number of players controlling them and their availability (PvPers).

Now, some players might stand that absurd grinding in order to then be able to afford those outrageous prices, but many other players might not, they would eventually get ALIENATED from playing and quit UO althougether.

This is, to my thinking, what has happened over the past years, of course there have been other reasons too, like players being fed up of cheats, scripts, multiboxing, IDOCs scripting etc. etc. etc.

But certainly, an inflationary economy that forces players into mindless grinds to be able to afford much needed items like Powerscrolls, does not look, at least to me, a good way to RETAIN a player base....

This change to Treasure Hunting could have been a good occasion to have those Powerscrolls outrageous prices be toned down, but it would require, to my opinion, for Powerscrolls 105, 110 AND 115, to spawn ALSO in the other Facets besides Felucca.

Having them spawn only in Felucca Treasure Chests is not going to make a dent, at least to my opinion, to Powerscrolls' prices and the issues with the economy being so much inflationary and deterring away new and returning players all would remain, IMHO.

This is something which I think that the Developers should think over quite well, because it deals with the entire game as a whole, me thinks.

@Mesanna ; ?

At least, that is the way I see it.

Rotep

I'm not going to go back and read 7 pages of mostly the same arguments from what I've heard. The only people complaining about another source of power scrolls should be the people farming and ghost camming champ spawns.

If you are a T-Hunter you have no right to be upset about them being Felucca only because Powerscrolls are already Felucca Only, if you don't want to go to Felucca fine you have literally lost nothing! Saying Felucca chest shouldn't have power scrolls because you don't go to Felucca is like saying people shouldn't drink Milk because you're lactose intolerant there is literally no logical connection. Nothing has changed for you stop complaining about someone else getting something it's like listening to a child complain that they can't have the other kids candy.

Besides a treasure maps location is RANDOMLY spawned now (And has been for years, any T-hunter knows this), there is no way for a Red or anyone else to predict these locations and camp them, That makes this a relatively safer alternative to getting a power scroll. I would like to point out that the majority of shards are severely underpopulated a fact that some people stupidly call "A feature" when it is a relic of a dwindling population of players, I have run through felucca several times Mining and treasure hunting and never seen a single red, and I play Catskills which is arguably one of the more moderately populated shards.

My argument becomes this if you are complaining about Powerscrolls in treasure chests in any manner you are most likely a PvPer who is part of one of the shard wide guilds that try to control power scroll distribution and sale masquerading as a trammie T-Hunter, or you have Impaired Logic on par with a toddler. The only people who stand to have anything to gain from the Complaint "If I can't get them in Trammel, people shouldn't be able to get them in Felucca" are those monopolizing the Champ Spawns.

Broadsword will never put Powerscrolls in Trammel, and they shouldn't Something in this freaking game needs to be risk-reward and making up to 115's available in T-maps is actually a decent way to help circumvent the massive monopolization of the PK guilds that hold shards hostage. Even as those who claim to avoid Fel and think Fel chests shouldn't have scrolls stand to gain from the lower prices, But I sincerely doubt these people are actually as Averse to PvP as they claim because if they were they wouldn't even bother to weigh in because IT LITERALLY WOULDN'T AFFECT NEGATIVELY THEM AT ALL.

popps

Sliss said:

JenniferMarie said:

-- I disagree.

I like that Fel is the only place you can obtain Powerscrolls.

Putting Powerscrolls inside treasure chests combined with the ability to bind scrolls up and make higher ones? You will already have a decrease in Powerscroll prices within 2 weeks of the publish going live.

And that would be a good thing. Pet revamp greatly increased demand without corresponding increase in supply of power scrolls. Result is the obscene prices we see today. Getting them loweredis the step in the right direction.

but even I have to admit that the PvPers are a big reason this game is able to keep going for all of us.

That is highly debatable. Per UO post-mortem video, PvPers were ( and most likely still are) responsible for an enormous outflow of players from the game.

If you give people the ability to get Powerscrolls outside of Fel? Then PvPers will lose a large part of their fun, and it will be a short time (alarmingly short) before there is another mass exodus of players from UO.

The fun that you describe is killing players that are forced to participate in an activity that they do not find enjoyable. THIS is how you get a mass exodus of players, not by encouraging a griefing mechanic. Personally, I would like power scrolls to be available on all facets not because doing Fel maps is difficult, but because these maps are small enough proportion of maps overall. Combine that with the cap of 115, and the scroll prices will probably remain way higher than they should be.

"That is highly debatable. Per UO post-mortem video, PvPers were ( and most likely still are) responsible for an enormous outflow of players from the game."

QUOTED FOR TRUTH !!!

https://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

"Non-consensual PvP was a mistake

Naturally, PvP came up during the panels and the Q&A afterward. As painful as it may sound, one thing all the developers agreed on was that non-consensual PvP was a mistake."

To be noted.... "one thing all the developers agreed on"....

Abbarosh

Thats what I am running atm after dropping mining and eval to fit in detect and remove trap , easy on the lvl 4's bit rickier on lvl 5's and the frost dragons, 2 or 3 mystics all using RC's eat all guardians

Faeryl

Abbarosh said:

Thats what I am running atm after dropping mining and eval to fit in detect and remove trap , easy on the lvl 4's bit rickier on lvl 5's and the frost dragons, 2 or 3 mystics all using RC's eat all guardians

Since it's been stated that if RT becomes a requirement for sure, it'll be divorced from detect... you could just juggle eval and detect on TC to make things a little easier. If you consider juggling the two easier.

Commands are easier than soulstones anyway. *grins*

Abbarosh

that does look pretty cool 
Hourglass

Rotep

Abbarosh said:

Thats what I am running atm after dropping mining and eval to fit in detect and remove trap , easy on the lvl 4's bit rickier on lvl 5's and the frost dragons, 2 or 3 mystics all using RC's eat all guardians

You can free up 50 points from Detect hidden as it doesn't affect the remove trap skill and you only need 50 to be able to use it, you could then supplement another skill say Evalint to 70 take 2 from magery, Imbue jewelry to have 20 magery and 30 Eval int, and then you could have decent magery dmg, this is just an example, no t-hunter really should be worried about pvp specs so using the rings and bracelets to get a proper build should be alright. 

Though I believe that Detect Hidden should not be needed for Remove Trap as having a T-Hunting character able to actually pvm is hard enough right now with 300 points being allocated to the activity. I understand that Broadsword is removing Mining from the needed skills but replacing it with remove trap as it stands right now makes it worse because that's now 350 skill points minimum needed, My T-Hunter is also my tamer and is currently a mess as is.

My Current Template (Ideally they are not fully trained):
Taming: 120
Lore:120
Vet: 100
LP:100
Cartography:100
Mining: 100
Magery: 100
They also have med but that is going down and magery is supplemented by jewelry, with this change I will need to swap out mining for remove trap, and hopefully NOT Detect Hidden. 

I would urge that urgency be placed on figuring out the best way to make Remove Trap an accessible skill as grinding it is objectively the biggest Nightmare in the game considering you need to find trapped chest to try to gain on and you aren't guaranteed any sort of gain as Remove trap I believe is so low on the possible gain calculation.

Some have suggested just combining all the Thief skills together, so snooping, stealing, lp, and remove trap would just fall under one skill essentially "Thievery". I doubt that's a good solution but all of those skills are so niche it's ridiculous at this point in the game's development. 

Tanager

I ended up just making a new char, which is working fine atm.

I am testing the Town Cryer quest, and I have noticed that these maps have a different title. The folks that are copying over chars and have unreadable maps in their Davie Lockers - is it possible it was those maps? You can delete the quest an redo it over an over (after a timer) for maps, so maybe people did that and then the conversion didn't account for that type. Also, the quest is broken:



I completed the map the quest giver handed me, and got the next map in the chain. However, the quest will not update after completing that one. I suspect the quest is still looking for the Expert map that no longer exists. Or maybe this supply one is actually being seen as an adept? In any case, just a heads up for ya, Devs.

EDIT: Ok, the normal text for the quest map says hoard on production shard. This should probably be changed.
EDIT again: When I came back from checking production, there were new maps in my pack. I must have gotten hit with the EC pack bug. Anyway, every time I do a quest map, a new map pops into my pack with random package but always supply. I did quite a few before I gave up, it seems to be stuck.

popps

Margrette said:

@ Kyronix, here are results from doing 12 stash-level chests in Trammel using a character with 600 luck on her suit:

1. There were 2 artisan chests, 1 assassin chest, 4 barbarian chests, 2 mage chests, 1 ranger chest, and 2 warrior chests.
2. Every single chest came up as a gold chest.
3. Character had no mining skill but GM cartography skill.  When she was wearing a talisman with 21% cartography bonus, locating chests (using Davies Locker coordinates for a general location) was pretty quick.  Without the talisman on, it often took 4-6 tries to find the chest.
4. None of the chests contained a treasure map.
5. Only one of the 12 chests contained a SoT (0.3 macing from a Barbarian chest). 
6. Both artisan chests had an assortment of 6 refinement components (neatly packaged in their own small crate) and 50 boards or ingots (bloodwood and verite for these two).
7. Both mage chests had a reagent bag with 60 of each reagent.These were dug up in Trammel, so they were magery reagents only.
8. None of the 7 barbarian, warrior, or assassin chests included essences or Mondains Legacy ingredients. 
9. Out of 12 chests, 7 chests (or 58% of them) had nothing in them but a bag of gems and gold. 
10. Two of the chests had the situation where the first chest raised part way and stopped and then I had to target the area again to raise another chest.  Was able to open the second chest in each case.
11. Almost none of the maps was correctly identified in the locker as to which profession package they were.  The profession package info would say one thing in the locker and something else once the map was in the character's backpack. These were all maps that I transferred over to TC outside of the Davey's Locker earlier this evening, so there was no error message of any kind once I loaded them in the locker.

I realize most people probably won't worry about the stash level maps.  However, since we've been given the impression they should (other than Ranger ones) include ingredients useful for crafting (or casting) and SoTs, I know I will probably do them fairly often. I am at this point disappointed that so few included anything other than gold and small gems.  Do we need to do them in Fel to have a better chance to get anything but gold and gems? And I wonder what the gold amounts will be on stash chests that aren't gold.  Or is it not an anomaly that all of them came up as gold chests?  Is that the plan for stash chests??

I will try to do some of the Supply and Cache level chests tomorrow.  I'm not a very good treasure hunter, so I would struggle with anything higher and it's hard for me to catch friends online at the same time I'm on anymore to try to do the tougher maps.  I'm keeping track of my results in the spreadsheet I linked to earlier (sheet 3).  Would still appreciate if you could give it a look to see if what I put down for contents is correct or way off base.  Thanks.  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17SHMAEYnwRJ1o6e_16ov9JKue0DnHi1FzHnxOt-bI8g/edit?usp=sharing

"I realize most people probably won't worry about the stash level maps.  However, since we've been given the impression they should (other than Ranger ones) include ingredients useful for crafting (or casting) and SoTs, I know I will probably do them fairly often. I am at this point disappointed that so few included anything other than gold and small gems.  Do we need to do them in Fel to have a better chance to get anything but gold and gems? "

Artisans (Crafters) who are those most in needs for those crafting Reagents and Recipes, are, aheam.... Crafters, NOT fighters.....

Therefore, not only it should make sense to see the reagents and recipes that they need to spawn in lower levels Chests, but, ALSO, definitively such spawns should absolutely not be more likely to occurr in Felucca as compared to other facets as it would not make any sense, at least to me, that a "non-fighting" Crafter would have to instead not only engage in heavy PvM fighting but, on top of that, ALSO in PvP fighting !!

A Crafter ?

It would make no sense to me....

As you say, Peerless Resources (the regular and the special ones) as well as other Resources needed for Crafting as well as Recipes, should definitively Spawn in lower level Chests and, definitively, over ALL of the Facets and with no particular likeliness for Felucca.

That is at least for the Artisans' Maps.

popps

Tanager said:

In my opinion, going to Fel and getting murdered is an excellent way to learn coping skills. You get used to it, and eventually come to the realization that possessions are replaceable, and how YOU respond to the actions of others is entirely within your own power. And then the skin of your ego gets a bit thicker and life is much easier to deal with.

If people cannot make that leap, however, then ok. Let those people who can deal with it get the PS, and you buy them. I can't stand to go mining, I find it horribly tedious. So I buy ingots from a player. It is the same concept.

Adding the PS to chests is a fantastic idea. The risk is very low, and it will loosen the vice-like grip that PvPers have on the PS market. It will still take time to get enough 110/115 to bind a 120, so it will not crash the market. Champion spawns will continue to give 12 scrolls at once, with a chance at 120s. This is a really good balance.

PvMers are getting a nice add, and the only ones complaining... are the PvMers.

"You get used to it, and eventually come to the realization that possessions are replaceable"

I hear that argument quite often.... that, after all, it only costs "insurance"....

Well, it is not that simple, at least to my viewing.....

It costs a LOT more to the PvM player getting killed, depending how that happens.

What am I talking about ?

A Players' chunk of their life..... the TIME invested in working that Champ Spawn up to the Boss, or the time spent to find and dig up the Chest AND work the Guardians... only to then get killed at very last minute, after having done 99% of the involved work AND a chunk of one's own life (which could have been spent doing ELSE in a more fruitful manner...) by a PvPer...

The PVMer does 99% of the work, invests the time but a PvPer who only does 1% of the related work and easily kills the PvMer gets all the Rewards ?

How is this EVER balanced, if I may ask ?

Of course, this is only my opinion of it.

popps

Faeryl said:

popps said:

"with great risk comes great reward!"

EXCUSE ME ?

May I ask WHERE is the great risk for that PvPer who comes, AFTER the PvMer has done 99% of the work needed to work the spawn, kills the PvMer and takes all of the scrolls ?

WHERE is the risk for that PvPer ?

I see none.

Yet, they get not only the rewards, but doing only 1% of the work associated with them !!!

And this should even be balanced ?

Please...........

You're arguing from a very weird angle. The risk is with the PvMer who chooses to go to Felucca knowing that they could either come out of it with the reward, or lose it to a PvPer.

The risk with the PvPer, is being attacked by other PvPers. This has... literally always been the case with Felucca. How is this any different than champ spawn raids, idoc raids, resource farming, dungeons, bosses, or literally anything else that occurs there?

Uhu ??

How often does it REALLY happen that a PvP Raider gets Raided by some other PvPer ?

HARDLY.

And you know why ?

Because the MOST time that it takes to work up a Spawn under which one is at risk to being "seen" by a wanna be Raider PvPer, is from the start of the Spawn to when the Boss is up.

And the longer the time, the HIGHER the chances to be seen by a wanna be PvPer Raider and be Raided.

When that PvPer shows up, kills the PvMer and then kills the Boss (and gets all of the Powerscrolls that Spawn), this takes only a miniscule fraction of time compared to what it took the PvMer to work up all of the Spawn.

So, in no time, and with VERY limited effort the PvPer that is Raiding gets ALL of the Rewards, at "realistically" no risk or hardly any.

To me, it does not look balanced AT ALL.

popps

Rotep said:

I'm not going to go back and read 7 pages of mostly the same arguments from what I've heard. The only people complaining about another source of power scrolls should be the people farming and ghost camming champ spawns.

If you are a T-Hunter you have no right to be upset about them being Felucca only because Powerscrolls are already Felucca Only, if you don't want to go to Felucca fine you have literally lost nothing! Saying Felucca chest shouldn't have power scrolls because you don't go to Felucca is like saying people shouldn't drink Milk because you're lactose intolerant there is literally no logical connection. Nothing has changed for you stop complaining about someone else getting something it's like listening to a child complain that they can't have the other kids candy.

Besides a treasure maps location is RANDOMLY spawned now (And has been for years, any T-hunter knows this), there is no way for a Red or anyone else to predict these locations and camp them, That makes this a relatively safer alternative to getting a power scroll. I would like to point out that the majority of shards are severely underpopulated a fact that some people stupidly call "A feature" when it is a relic of a dwindling population of players, I have run through felucca several times Mining and treasure hunting and never seen a single red, and I play Catskills which is arguably one of the more moderately populated shards.

My argument becomes this if you are complaining about Powerscrolls in treasure chests in any manner you are most likely a PvPer who is part of one of the shard wide guilds that try to control power scroll distribution and sale masquerading as a trammie T-Hunter, or you have Impaired Logic on par with a toddler. The only people who stand to have anything to gain from the Complaint "If I can't get them in Trammel, people shouldn't be able to get them in Felucca" are those monopolizing the Champ Spawns.

Broadsword will never put Powerscrolls in Trammel, and they shouldn't Something in this freaking game needs to be risk-reward and making up to 115's available in T-maps is actually a decent way to help circumvent the massive monopolization of the PK guilds that hold shards hostage. Even as those who claim to avoid Fel and think Fel chests shouldn't have scrolls stand to gain from the lower prices, But I sincerely doubt these people are actually as Averse to PvP as they claim because if they were they wouldn't even bother to weigh in because IT LITERALLY WOULDN'T AFFECT NEGATIVELY THEM AT ALL.

"Broadsword will never put Powerscrolls in Trammel, and they shouldn't Something in this freaking game needs to be risk-reward and making up to 115's available in T-maps is actually a decent way to help circumvent the massive monopolization of the PK guilds that hold shards hostage."

I thought that I made it quite clear that my argument was one of INFLATIONARY ECONOMY in Ultima Online driven, most notably, by Powerscrolls' prices which, as not just me, but MANY players acknowledge, are outrageously inflated and too high.

And what does this cause ?

GRINDING.

Grinding gameplay in those players who cannot get them on their own (because they get Raided after having done all of the work on the Spawn) and are fed up to waste their playing time to then have "other" players reward from it.

And so they have to go on grinding for "other" items on non-Felucca facets which, as compared to the likeliness of a Powerscroll in Felucca (all the PvPers who "farm" for them always have another character Protecting for double the scrolls) are immensively lower.

Compare the wealth that can be gotten farming for Powerscrolls in felucca in about half an hour to a PvP player well suited for a Champ Spawn, to what wealth can EVER a PvM player make in that half hour of gameplay on a NON-Felucca Facet doing ANY of the Bosses out there....

The Forums are FULL of Threads about working this or that Boss for TENS if not more of Hours and not getting a SINGLE good drop of an item....

Compare to all of that wasted time with what a PvPer can then put together by working Champ Spawns in that same time and sell them at the outrageous prices that they have been pushed up to....

And what is the risk of a too intensive gameplay grinding to a player for Ultima Online as a business product ?

That these PvM players forced into such an extensive grind (to be able to afford those outrageous Powerscrolls' prices because of their Monopoly from just a few PvPers) may get fed "burnt out" and fed up of it and quit playing.... Ultima Online as a business product LOOSES players' base....

Perhaps, JUST perhaps then, the PRECISE issue that Powerscrolls are limited to only the Felucca Facet, a Monopoly in the hands of only a few PvPers who have INFLATED their prices to outreageous highs and, thus, affecting the entire UO economy, should be something to be looked at by the Developers ?

Adding 105, 110 AND 115 Powerscrolls to Treasure Chest "could" have been a good way to pacify such outrageous Powerscrolls prices and bring them down to more reasonable levels that would NOT force PvM players into absurd and mindless grinds to be then able to afford them BUT, I am MUCH afraid, if they will be limited to only the Felucca Facet they will not make a dent into the absurd Powerscrolls' prices... give it time for PvPers to organize and, depending on the Shard and how active a PvPers Population it has, Treasure Hunters in Felucca WILL get bugged and Raided as PvMers are when doing Champ Spawns there....

Nope, I am convinced that, if Powerscrolls' outrageous prices wants to be calmed down, the only one way is to have 105, 110 AND 115 Powerscrolls spawn in ANY and ALL Facets, not just Felucca.

Tanager

*quietly takes away popps coffee or beer*

popps

Tanager said:

*quietly takes away popps coffee or beer*

Thanks, I think this is a very important matter and that is why I bring it up and insist on it.

I REALLY think that Powerscrolls having been exclusive of Felucca over these Years have damaged Ultima Online and lost players to it and I tried to explain my reasons.

This could be a very good occasion to make a step towards the right direction in having Powerscrolls' prices be toned down, and thus not force into mindless, absurd grinds those PvM players who need to get together the gold that they sell for since they cannot earn them on their own because they get Raided one too often at Champ Spawns.

But limiting their Spawn only in Felucca's Treasure chests, at least to my viewing, will not address the issue much if at all (it also depend much on how likely the Developers will make them to spawn in Treasure Chests... so far, I only read of 1 single report in the highest Chest, a Trove Chest and, mind you, only for a mere 105 Powerscroll...). Give it time and, I think, depending on how lively a Shard has a PvPers' population, they will have Ghost Cams in Treasure locations even if Random (it is possible to script the wandering about of even a large area of a Ghost Cam character) and they will Raid Treasure Hunts in Felucca just as they do with Champ Spawns...

The only one way to really affect Powerscrolls' outrageous prices is to make them available in Treasure Chests ALSO on all other Facets besides Felucca, I am of the opinion, AND, I should add, also make their Spawn likeliness in those Treasure Chests a high one...

Otherwise, everything will pretty much remain as it is, with Powerscrolls still costing a fortune, with many PvM players not having access for one reason to another to earn them on their own to have to therefore get into extensive, mindless and absurd grinds to earn the large gold amounts needed to afford them in other ways and on Facets other then Felucca, and risk to get "burnt out" in doing such extensive grinds, and,. consequentially, quit playing Ultima Online althougether...

I hear often laments of Ultima Online's players' base dwindling and shrinking, this could perhaps be a good occasion for a step towards the direction of helping players REMAIN with Ultima Online, not quit playing it because they have had enough of too much grind playing to put together the gold to afford those Powerscrolls at the absurd prices that they sell for....

Petra_Fyde

Do I do fel treasure maps?  Yes, all the time
Do I do other stuff in fel? Yes all the time
Do I get pk'd in fel?  Nope, I just use a bit of discretion about where I go and when I go there. 
Do I expect to get pk'd as a result of this change?  Nope, see the answer above. 
Sorry, but all this talk of not going to fel because you'll get pk'd, in my opinion, is just needless panic. Don't do maps in high traffic areas at peak times and you'll be fine, honestly.

Abbarosh

Petra_Fyde said:

Do I do fel treasure maps?  Yes, all the time
Do I do other stuff in fel? Yes all the time
Do I get pk'd in fel?  Nope, I just use a bit of discretion about where I go and when I go there. 
Do I expect to get pk'd as a result of this change?  Nope, see the answer above. 
Sorry, but all this talk of not going to fel because you'll get pk'd, in my opinion, is just needless panic. Don't do maps in high traffic areas at peak times and you'll be fine, honestly.

what shard you on cause i can change that :P

Abbarosh

i only ever been pked once and i just sent my PK in and killed him so all was good