Why not revamp the classic client?

Seth

I have been nice not to say instead,

Option A is we upgrade the EC UI and dump the CC which benefits everyone.

or putting a modern jet calling it EC while a cockroach is CC.

There is no point discussing further then, do as you please. Case closed.

dvvid

Stop with the preference superiority stuff. Are we unable to understand that some prefer one client over another and vice versa?  There is no get-rid-of-one-and-everyone-will-be-happy scenario. 

That said, I think an art toggle is a good start to getting closer to a single client. 

Victim_Of_Siege

Mariah

Can we try to avoid getting into 'client wars' please?

Hera_Siege

Some things I find frustrating about the EC vs CC aside from the art:
1) Corners - In the CC I can run into a corner and I stay there, EC you actually turn it.  Probably a great when running through the wilderness, but horrible when I'm trying to hit a tele in my house.
2) I liked the grid backpack for the most part, but the issue with the grid becoming 'two rows' and not scrolling is annoying.

There's probably more, as I don't use the EC much anymore after the T-map changes that reduced the amount of loot in chests, really only use it for the afore-mentioned EC stocked vendor issue.

dvvid

I can’t remember exactly but I think the grid backpack within the legacy backpack art was the one the bugged out all the time right? I remember when I switched it to just the grid it works better. Still bugs out here and there but you don’t have to close reopen like with the other style. 

(:sigh:...I just wish these bugs could be fixed... I don’t understand how glaring issues can be around for so long)

Victim_Of_Siege

Hera_Siege said:

Some things I find frustrating about the EC vs CC aside from the art:
1) Corners - In the CC I can run into a corner and I stay there, EC you actually turn it.  Probably a great when running through the wilderness, but horrible when I'm trying to hit a tele in my house.
2) I liked the grid backpack for the most part, but the issue with the grid becoming 'two rows' and not scrolling is annoying.

There's probably more, as I don't use the EC much anymore after the T-map changes that reduced the amount of loot in chests, really only use it for the afore-mentioned EC stocked vendor issue.

to fix number one see picture below. number two is a definite problem. but you can quickly correct it by hitting the "change to list view" (green +) twice.  That is a bug i very much would like to see fixed.

loop

In practice, there isn't much need to revamp the Classic Client because the community is doing it for free with third-party software that gives the CC everything it could have been given years ago: smooth fps, scalable game window, scalable UI, searchable containers, a proper scripting agent...

It's hard to even have a conversation about the two. If you're partial to the CC, you probably aren't even using it by itself. You're using something third-party that you aren't going to be banned for. If you're partial to the EC, that's great, but you have to reckon honestly with the question of why so many players still prefer many aspects of the CC. The reason ain't that they're curmudgeonly or set in their ways.

With New Legacy hearkening back to the days of yore and the community coming up with creative technology to improve the CC, it's getting harder to see where the EC fits in UO's future.

Bilbo

loop said:

In practice, there isn't much need to revamp the Classic Client because the community is doing it for free with third-party software that gives the CC everything it could have been given years ago: smooth fps, scalable game window, scalable UI, searchable containers, a proper scripting agent...

It's hard to even have a conversation about the two. If you're partial to the CC, you probably aren't even using it by itself. You're using something third-party that you aren't going to be banned for. If you're partial to the EC, that's great, but you have to reckon honestly with the question of why so many players still prefer many aspects of the CC. The reason ain't that they're curmudgeonly or set in their ways.

With New Legacy hearkening back to the days of yore and the community coming up with creative technology to improve the CC, it's getting harder to see where the EC fits in UO's future.

Why does everybody think that just because we use the CC that we are using "other" programs with it?  The only "other " programs I and I know many others use is UOAssist and UOAutomap which are both LEGAL to use.

Please tell us all what "other" programs out there that we will not get banned for using with the CC and when did UO list them as APPROVED programs.  All unapproved programs run the risk if you are caught using can get you banned so please stop telling people that there are "other " programs that will not get you banned. And stop ASSuming that just because we use the CC that we are  cheaters.

Victim_Of_Siege

Bilbo said:

loop said:

In practice, there isn't much need to revamp the Classic Client because the community is doing it for free with third-party software that gives the CC everything it could have been given years ago: smooth fps, scalable game window, scalable UI, searchable containers, a proper scripting agent...

It's hard to even have a conversation about the two. If you're partial to the CC, you probably aren't even using it by itself. You're using something third-party that you aren't going to be banned for. If you're partial to the EC, that's great, but you have to reckon honestly with the question of why so many players still prefer many aspects of the CC. The reason ain't that they're curmudgeonly or set in their ways.

With New Legacy hearkening back to the days of yore and the community coming up with creative technology to improve the CC, it's getting harder to see where the EC fits in UO's future.

Why does everybody think that just because we use the CC that we are using "other" programs with it?  The only "other " programs I and I know many others use is UOAssist and UOAutomap which are both LEGAL to use.

Please tell us all what "other" programs out there that we will not get banned for using with the CC and when did UO list them as APPROVED programs.  All unapproved programs run the risk if you are caught using can get you banned so please stop telling people that there are "other " programs that will not get you banned. And stop ASSuming that just because we use the CC that we are  cheaters.

Agreed, until I went fulltime 3D client, I used only the CC and whatever Map program was being supported at the time. I didn't even use assist, never saw the use in it since I could do most of it with macro system in the client. It seems that there is a belief that CC is used only for cheating and no matter how many times you explain, it falls on deaf ears. 

*edit*  I do have assist and like one function of it, the way that it auto stacks wood while lumberjacking is awesome. If they could get the EC to do that I could die a happy Gargoyle.

Seth

Unlikely anyone will admit they are using illegal 3rd party programs in this forum.

But its not hard to find or google for CC, e.g.

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43025/#Comment_43025

EC > CC+UOA - EC is just so much faster, and has so many more add-ons. But, more functionality has been moved from UOA into CC, and this has made CC so much more playable.

EC equals CC + EasyUO scripts, the speed of the scripts, and more versatility helps make up for the sheer speed of EC.

EC equals CC + Enhanced Razor - again, the speed and versatility of Razor scripts and inbuilt macros match the sheer speed of EC running and casting.

Are the above examples as I don't know what they are referring to. Have not been using CC for ages.

Seth

What program is he using? I wasn't aware or recall any of these new features on CC.

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/8606/selling-2-fel-yew-homes#latest

Cookie

@seth I don't actually know what that is.

I don't think it is important though, different players use different things, you cannot blanket assume like others have said.

What I think it does show - is that there are extra useful beneficial things that can be built into Classic Client - we know - because we can see it already being done - unofficially.

As someone who likes Classic client, like many of us, the logical request when we see something that is genuinely useful and cool, and does not ruin the flavour of UO - is can we have it please?

I do completely understand that it is harder for them - I do sympathise - but that sadly is just how it is, that is the legacy of 20 years worth of decisions. Somehow yes, they need to plan their way through this.

Arroth_Thaiel

Victim_Of_Siege said:

I do have assist and like one function of it, the way that it auto stacks wood while lumberjacking is awesome. If they could get the EC to do that I could die a happy Gargoyle.

Having not used the CC or UOA in some time, what does "auto stacks wood" mean?

Bilbo

Seth said:

Unlikely anyone will admit they are using illegal 3rd party programs in this forum.

But its not hard to find or google for CC, e.g.

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43025/#Comment_43025

EC > CC+UOA - EC is just so much faster, and has so many more add-ons. But, more functionality has been moved from UOA into CC, and this has made CC so much more playable.

EC equals CC + EasyUO scripts, the speed of the scripts, and more versatility helps make up for the sheer speed of EC.

EC equals CC + Enhanced Razor - again, the speed and versatility of Razor scripts and inbuilt macros match the sheer speed of EC running and casting.

Are the above examples as I don't know what they are referring to. Have not been using CC for ages.

So you ASSume that all CC users are liers when we say we DO NOT use any illegal 3rd party programs.  PFFFFFFFFFT

Seth

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

Unlikely anyone will admit they are using illegal 3rd party programs in this forum.

But its not hard to find or google for CC, e.g.

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43025/#Comment_43025

EC > CC+UOA - EC is just so much faster, and has so many more add-ons. But, more functionality has been moved from UOA into CC, and this has made CC so much more playable.

EC equals CC + EasyUO scripts, the speed of the scripts, and more versatility helps make up for the sheer speed of EC.

EC equals CC + Enhanced Razor - again, the speed and versatility of Razor scripts and inbuilt macros match the sheer speed of EC running and casting.

Are the above examples as I don't know what they are referring to. Have not been using CC for ages.

So you ASSume that all CC users are liers when we say we DO NOT use any illegal 3rd party programs.  PFFFFFFFFFT

Which statement says I assumed "all CC users" are liars? I merely copy and pasted another post talking about CC and 3rd party programs some of which I don't recognise.

My only comment was that I don't expect anyone dumb enough to admit they are using illegal programs here. Did anyone do that? Which post?

So when you say "we say we DO NOT use", do you speak for all CC users. Wow, CC users have a rep here.

All good.

btw, I will be transparent that I flagged your post:

Please Treat ALL Posters with Respect and Courtesy.

No Typing in All Caps - This is seen as shouting and classed as rude. Please don't do it.
No Trolling - Do not post comments which have the sole purpose of causing an argument. You may express your opinion on a topic however, abuse to anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as you will not be tolerated.

Seth

Alright, my original intention was to find a meeting point for both CC and EC users regarding revamping CC vs a better solution to combine CC or EC into one - while retaining what is important to users from both sides (instead of "dumping" one group). After defining the objective, hopefully there can be technical inputs (such as those by Arroth) for further discussion.

Why must a discussion about the two game clients need to turn into a fight?

Want to talk about 3rd party and bans? Yeah not all users use illegal programs, but everyone knows there are cheaters. I didn't say that, isn't it facts?

Finally, here are the CS actions for the month of April:
21 -  Solicitation
1 -    Disruptive Behavior
15 - Third Party Program
30 -  Macroing
34 -  Multi Boxing
1 -    Abuse of Game Mechanics
2 -    Duping

What has the above got to do with revamping game clients, etc.

Bilbo

Seth said:

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

Unlikely anyone will admit they are using illegal 3rd party programs in this forum.

So you ASSume that all CC users are liers when we say we DO NOT use any illegal 3rd party programs.  PFFFFFFFFFT

Which statement says I assumed "all CC users" are liars? I merely copy and pasted another post talking about CC and 3rd party programs some of which I don't recognise.

My only comment was that I don't expect anyone dumb enough to admit they are using illegal programs here. Did anyone do that? Which post?

So when you say "we say we DO NOT use", do you speak for all CC users. Wow, CC users have a rep here.

All good.

btw, I will be transparent that I flagged your post:

Please Treat ALL Posters with Respect and Courtesy.

No Typing in All Caps - This is seen as shouting and classed as rude. Please don't do it.
No Trolling - Do not post comments which have the sole purpose of causing an argument. You may express your opinion on a topic however, abuse to anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as you will not be tolerated.

Really, LMAO, Your opening statement says it all.  In other words we all know you cheat but will not admit it on this forum. So you calling CC users liers and cheaters is being polite, respectful, courteous and not trolling, remarkable.

Seth

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

Unlikely anyone will admit they are using illegal 3rd party programs in this forum.

So you ASSume that all CC users are liers when we say we DO NOT use any illegal 3rd party programs.  PFFFFFFFFFT

Which statement says I assumed "all CC users" are liars? I merely copy and pasted another post talking about CC and 3rd party programs some of which I don't recognise.

My only comment was that I don't expect anyone dumb enough to admit they are using illegal programs here. Did anyone do that? Which post?

So when you say "we say we DO NOT use", do you speak for all CC users. Wow, CC users have a rep here.

All good.

btw, I will be transparent that I flagged your post:

Please Treat ALL Posters with Respect and Courtesy.

No Typing in All Caps - This is seen as shouting and classed as rude. Please don't do it.
No Trolling - Do not post comments which have the sole purpose of causing an argument. You may express your opinion on a topic however, abuse to anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as you will not be tolerated.

Really, LMAO, Your opening statement says it all.  In other words we all know you cheat but will not admit it on this forum. So you calling CC users liers and cheaters is being polite, respectful, courteous and not trolling, remarkable.

lmao,yeah this is the meaning of trolling, to cause further argument.

Can you post something more relevant to the topic here, be constructive or is this your best contribution?

Or Option C is we upgrade the CC UI and dump the EC which benefits everyone.

Mariah

Time to call a halt.