Why not revamp the classic client?

Bilbo

Drago said:

I have a 2k monitor and have to use EC as CC game window is too small. Plus the EC UI is way better.   It is ridiculous there are 2 supported clients.  If they re-draw the legacy art resolution to a higher scale, you can kill CC.   There are 2 reasons people still use CC. 

1. Legacy art looks better
   
2. Scripting. its cheating so no sympathy here.  if you cant conform, bye, you wont be missed. 

I would imagine the art files are separate from the rest of the client engine.  If broadsword let players download SDK to help with re-drawing the art, it could get done alot faster and with little overhead.   If thats not the case,  hire a temp fresh outta college whos sole job is to re-draw all the legacy art.  With all the money UO store makes, there has to be in room in the budget.  Yes it will take a long time, but doing nothing is putting the game on an expiration date.  Gotta move with the tech.

They tried that with the KR and it was a bust

Seth

I am For one client that can switch between CC and EC graphics, ideally as that would be easiest for the community to accept, but maybe a challenge for the Dev.

If only one set of graphics can be used, then we (community) need to vote for each graphic which one, EC or CC, to use.

E.g. 
I prefer swamp dragon and basic horse on EC than the fat cucumber and horses in CC.
I am indifferent to the Hiryu art for both client, as I find both ugly.
I prefer the Balron art in CC with those holed wings than the blue weird Balron in EC.
I like the Grizzle mare art in CC than the one in EC.

Then once we merge both, it’s time to make the EC UI even better, solve those graphics bugs like missing gear on paperdoll, toon, empty swinging arms, spell book issues, etc.

I believe this issue has been brought up many times. How can we be constructive and more open minded, be prepared to give and take... so everyone may benefit from this project. 

E.g. sigh, alright I am fine if you want to use 90% of the CC art but please, can we just keep EC swampy? I cannot imagine my sampire riding the cucumber to battle...

Seth

After the NLS, I think we should petition for the client merger and upgrade to be the next major project, not another expansion or server.

I believe this will benefit 100% of all players, new , current and potential returning players so they will not be upset with the issues.

We can still have the seasonal events with special rewards

Petra_Fyde

Am I the only one who remembers that the biggest complaint about the game client, before KR, was that the graphics were too 'dated'?  That's why we got completely different graphics in the newer client. KR had to be scaled back a bit, not just because too many people didn't have sufficient computing power at the time, but also because the foliage was so dense that you couldn't see your character through it to see where you were going!

I'm sure that the 'plan' was that the new client would replace the old and CC would die. Didn't work out that way. I play EC now, and have a weird situation where my pc tells me 'not enough virtual memory' when I try to log into CC.  I don't much mind which graphics I have, as long as I can play, though I regret that the artists working on EC felt the need to re-invent some of the creatures so that there is no correlation between the two. I am glad that creatures added since that time are the same in both clients. I further regret that some clothing seen on the paperdoll looks nothing like the clothing I see on my avatar. This too is from the original EC artists apparently feeling the need to put their 'stamp' on things instead of merely updating the existing.

On the other hand, CC IS being re-vamped, all be it slowly. Case in point, you can now change the screen sizes. Many of the features that at one time were only available through UOAssist are now existent in the client. It is my hope that more will be added until ALL features of UOAssist are in the client, because it is my uneducated belief that at that time it may be possible to close the access that allows UOAssist to connect to the client, and therefore close out all other 'add ons'.  I don't know if that's a real possibility, my coding knowledge isn't that great, but wouldn't it be fantastic if it was?

Victim_Of_Siege

Petra_Fyde said:

Am I the only one who remembers that the biggest complaint about the game client, before KR, was that the graphics were too 'dated'?  That's why we got completely different graphics in the newer client. KR had to be scaled back a bit, not just because too many people didn't have sufficient computing power at the time, but also because the foliage was so dense that you couldn't see your character through it to see where you were going!

I'm sure that the 'plan' was that the new client would replace the old and CC would die. Didn't work out that way. I play EC now, and have a weird situation where my pc tells me 'not enough virtual memory' when I try to log into CC.  I don't much mind which graphics I have, as long as I can play, though I regret that the artists working on EC felt the need to re-invent some of the creatures so that there is no correlation between the two. I am glad that creatures added since that time are the same in both clients. I further regret that some clothing seen on the paperdoll looks nothing like the clothing I see on my avatar. This too is from the original EC artists apparently feeling the need to put their 'stamp' on things instead of merely updating the existing.

On the other hand, CC IS being re-vamped, all be it slowly. Case in point, you can now change the screen sizes. Many of the features that at one time were only available through UOAssist are now existent in the client. It is my hope that more will be added until ALL features of UOAssist are in the client, because it is my uneducated belief that at that time it may be possible to close the access that allows UOAssist to connect to the client, and therefore close out all other 'add ons'.  I don't know if that's a real possibility, my coding knowledge isn't that great, but wouldn't it be fantastic if it was?

No, no you aren't.

Seth

Petra_Fyde said:

Am I the only one who remembers that the biggest complaint about the game client, before KR, was that the graphics were too 'dated'?  That's why we got completely different graphics in the newer client. KR had to be scaled back a bit, not just because too many people didn't have sufficient computing power at the time, but also because the foliage was so dense that you couldn't see your character through it to see where you were going!

I'm sure that the 'plan' was that the new client would replace the old and CC would die. Didn't work out that way. I play EC now, and have a weird situation where my pc tells me 'not enough virtual memory' when I try to log into CC.  I don't much mind which graphics I have, as long as I can play, though I regret that the artists working on EC felt the need to re-invent some of the creatures so that there is no correlation between the two. I am glad that creatures added since that time are the same in both clients. I further regret that some clothing seen on the paperdoll looks nothing like the clothing I see on my avatar. This too is from the original EC artists apparently feeling the need to put their 'stamp' on things instead of merely updating the existing.

On the other hand, CC IS being re-vamped, all be it slowly. Case in point, you can now change the screen sizes. Many of the features that at one time were only available through UOAssist are now existent in the client. It is my hope that more will be added until ALL features of UOAssist are in the client, because it is my uneducated belief that at that time it may be possible to close the access that allows UOAssist to connect to the client, and therefore close out all other 'add ons'.  I don't know if that's a real possibility, my coding knowledge isn't that great, but wouldn't it be fantastic if it was?

It seems there are 2 groups of players staying with CC for 2 different reasons:

Group A - Graphics (from forum post, they dislike EC graphics)

Group B - 3rd Party (for pvp and other... stuff)

I don't think EC can even be upgraded such that it will satisfy Group B because they include features like realtime HP above each avatars. Let's not go there for now...

So for Group A, I don't think CC can be revamped to match EC. Even if they can finally 100% "revamp" it, yay!!..... isn't the final result an EC with CC graphics.

And in the process of doing the above, they may realise they spent a few years squeezing EC features into CC, while original EC is neglected, ridden with bugs and become the new classic.

So instead of revamping CC, I opine its more efficient to merge the two client. Aren't they complaining lack of manpower, and yet there are production shards, a new legacy shard to wipe each year, and 2 different game clients to maintain and debug. I am assuming legacy shard uses the same client as we do today.

Drago

Bilbo said:

Drago said:

I have a 2k monitor and have to use EC as CC game window is too small. Plus the EC UI is way better.   It is ridiculous there are 2 supported clients.  If they re-draw the legacy art resolution to a higher scale, you can kill CC.   There are 2 reasons people still use CC. 

1. Legacy art looks better
   
2. Scripting. its cheating so no sympathy here.  if you cant conform, bye, you wont be missed. 

I would imagine the art files are separate from the rest of the client engine.  If broadsword let players download SDK to help with re-drawing the art, it could get done alot faster and with little overhead.   If thats not the case,  hire a temp fresh outta college whos sole job is to re-draw all the legacy art.  With all the money UO store makes, there has to be in room in the budget.  Yes it will take a long time, but doing nothing is putting the game on an expiration date.  Gotta move with the tech.

They tried that with the KR and it was a bust

No.  they did NEW art with KR and it was a bust.  Objects were scaled differently and aesthetically didnt look the same (i.e.-  recall runes were 4x larger and looked kinda ridiculous..).  I'm talking about adding anti aliasing to the classic art and bumping up the resolution/pixel count.   I could of lived with KR, I think everyone would of gotten used to it if they made some minor adjustments.    The graphics overhaul that would attract new players and keep existing player base is one where the art has the same 'cartoon/comic' feel that its always had, but sharper and supports higher resolutions.  EC UI needs alot of bug fixes, which Pinco has already fixed.  But this supporting of 2 clients is a waste of overhead.

Drago

Seth said:

E.g. sigh, alright I am fine if you want to use 90% of the CC art but please, can we just keep EC swampy? I cannot imagine my sampire riding the cucumber to battle...

I use EC and honestly all the EC 3D models are fine.  The color hues/lighting (where it matters) are same as CC... i.e. -  white dye EC = white dye CC.   I have no problem with keeping EC models (NPCs,monsters, players).  Its the static objects that need to be re-scaled to support 16:9 aspect and higher resolution.   and EC UI,   grid container (with legacy container art enabled) is way way way more efficient than legacy container.  I'll never use legacy containers again.

Seth said:

I don't think EC can even be upgraded such that it will satisfy Group B because they include features like realtime HP above each avatars. Let's not go there for now...

Pinco has this option in her UI.  Thats something can be implemented in EC.

Drago

Pawain said:

Umm the EC has built in scripts and repeats.

1. It has limitations that prevent automated scripting. i.e. - harvesting resources and notifying players when champ spawns are triggered.
   
2. It has repeats but capped at 10.

Drakelord

Drago said:

I have a 2k monitor and have to use EC as CC game window is too small. Plus the EC UI is way better.   It is ridiculous there are 2 supported clients.  If they re-draw the legacy art resolution to a higher scale, you can kill CC.   There are 2 reasons people still use CC. 

1. Legacy art looks better
   
2. Scripting. its cheating so no sympathy here.  if you cant conform, bye, you wont be missed. 

I would imagine the art files are separate from the rest of the client engine.  If broadsword let players download SDK to help with re-drawing the art, it could get done alot faster and with little overhead.   If thats not the case,  hire a temp fresh outta college whos sole job is to re-draw all the legacy art.  With all the money UO store makes, there has to be in room in the budget.  Yes it will take a long time, but doing nothing is putting the game on an expiration date.  Gotta move with the tech.

Laptop with a HD TV.  Old school as I been there done that with all the other versions of UO.  None will never make it as good as this for me.  So far I love all there been done to the CC, there is one feature of EC I love to see in CC, Zoom in and out.

Another I wish they had is when someone stock a vendor in EC we CC players can see all the goods NOT stack on each other.  Far to many times those EC players forget there are people that play only CC and cannot shop.  Most times if I open a vendor stocked in EC I leave. 

Oh, that blank space over on the lower right is where I park my UOAM. 

Seth

Drakelord said:

Another I wish they had is when someone stock a vendor in EC we CC players can see all the goods NOT stack on each other.  Far to many times those EC players forget there are people that play only CC and cannot shop.  Most times if I open a vendor stocked in EC I leave. 

^^^

This is why I propose to combine CC and EC. CC users need to have the same grid backpack system, or else I am losing business to potential CC customers.

dvvid

If you are stocking vendors in EC, use the action “Toggle Legacy Containers” before you do so. This way, you’ll load up a CC style backpack which will help customers using CC actually see what you have without it being a mess. 

It’s a simple toggle... no need to open a whole other client to stock the vendor. 

That being said, I can’t ever imagine using the legacy/CC style containers as my main container style. Some might look kind of cool when open but the grid format is more usable overall. 

Seth

I keep looking at the container tab, forgot to check the legacy tab. They should put that checkbox under container tab.

This is why I don't admire CC client, I cannot even remember how I played using this backpack in the first decade. Please let CC users use grid as well, that would be a better solution.

Seth

The above backpack is so much easier to organise in EC, see below.

I chuck my gears at the bottom of the bag and and then reduce the window size to see the top only. I change my weapons depending on the quest type, with spare slayers just in case.

It can even use the large crate for trap box to counter paralyse. CC users will complain its too big but its better than the rectangular ones which will work only in one orientation.

Those bunch of spellbooks are temporary for the Yukio event, and accessible via hotbar. We don't even need to use the spellbook binder.

So after that I reduce the window to only the clean top part where my weapons are, and the one loot bag.

Norry

You can alter the macro file to repeat more than 10 times in EC.

Victim_Of_Siege

Norry said:

You can alter the macro file to repeat more than 10 times in EC.

Shhhhhhhh!

Arroth_Thaiel

Let me clear up a misconception that is rampant with the player base.

Anything ---anything--- that you can do with the CC and all ---all--- approved/unapproved 3rd party programs/clients, can be done with the EC.

Much of it in the default EC.

Keep in mind that the EC is less a mod-able interface and more a blank page, that has the built in ability to call outside files (including the artwork of your choice).

Good luck!

Seth

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Let me clear up a misconception that is rampant with the player base.

Anything ---anything--- that you can do with the CC and all ---all--- approved/unapproved 3rd party programs/clients, can be done with the EC.

Much of it in the default EC.

Keep in mind that the EC is less a mod-able interface and more a blank page, that has the built in ability to call outside files (including the artwork of your choice).

Good luck!

Thanks @Arroth_Thaiel

Just asking, would someone like Pinco be able to add a switch in the setting, to call CC graphics into EC? 

Arroth_Thaiel

@Seth

Muahahahahah - Pinco will hate me for saying this. Short answer: Yes.


Long answer:

Pinco's UI already can switch between graphics, but only some graphics. I.E. load Pinco's and you can swap floor tiles or field graphics.

So "yes", not only can Pinco add a graphic "switch" (that is well within his programming talent!), he already has, to an extent.

It's really not so much "can it be done", but rather how much time someone wants to sink into it. 

The more I learn about UO's code, the more my hat is off to Pinco. Pinco's UI is just an incredible, incredible amount of work.
  
Honestly, at this point, Pinco's UI is really a community mod manager. Pinco has taken on the task of merging a bunch of different peoples' work. Must be a masochist.

********

Here's a conceptual way to think about adding CC graphics to the EC:

Think of the 1000's of tiles that make up the base world of UO. It's not that there is grass, it's that there is 8 types of grass (or however many), for open landscapes... then 8 more for jungle landscapes, then sand tiles, then snow tiles, etc. Add in every single image of static landscape - every cave wall, every rock, etc. Then add the 1000's of items in UO. Now add them for the East facing direction, 'cause you only got the South facing direction the first time. Then add in creatures, recognizing that a single creature isn't an actual little critter, but rather a host of individual pictures taken of a model posed in various positions.

Every single item, every single variation of an item, has an individual file associated with it (ok, so technically some files are called multiple times, but reversed in the display - whatever - you get the idea). Every one of those files would need to be saved to a specific format. Each file would need to be named specifically. Each file would need to be called specifically by the code. Each file would need to be called in a specific sequence if the goal was an animation. 

So, someone would have to go through every file and do all that labor intensive grunt work. It's not going to happen magically.

Someone did that for floor tiles, went through and figured out each and every tile. Pinco added them. Someone else figured out field spells, Pinco added them.

Seth, if you want to figure out how to open the CC's files, and there are good walk-throughs on how to do that, extract all the individual frames for...say an orc...rename, reformat, and build a package out of all those individual frames, so that the EC knows what to call each and every frame, then mod the EC to call each new frame of yours in place of each existing frame that it's already calling, then hand that entire package to Pinco, I'm guessing Pinco would add it to the front of the mod so people could select the Orc graphic of their choosing.

So, if you went ahead and did all that (might need you to come in on Saturday), the community would be able to "just" switch between Orc graphics! 

 

Seth

Thanks again @Arroth_Thaiel

I opine the EC terrain looks ok, just need to start with the mobiles. But I am an EC user, so EC always look "ok" even if some graphics are not as good as CC. 

Since EC already has the ability to use CC graphics, I don't see why they need to waste time revamping a 1997, 24 year old software. Even Microsoft Windows have changed several generations from Windows 3.1, XP, 7, 8, and now 10 and still changing. 

I think diehard CC users need to open up EC and tell the Dev what you need them to do to use the EC. If the only issue is graphics, then it's not a show stopper.

Bilbo

Seth said:

I think diehard CC users need to open up EC and tell the Dev what you need them to do to use the EC. If the only issue is graphics, then it's not a show stopper.

It is a HUGE show stopper because it is the graphics that prevents a lot of CC users from using the EC on a daily basis.  NO matter how good a game is or the UI that controls it is if you can not stand to look at the graphics then you sure as hell will not play it.  How about UO scraps the EC Graphics and just uses the CC Graphics, now we have the better Graphics with the better UI, win win for everyone.

Seth

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

I think diehard CC users need to open up EC and tell the Dev what you need them to do to use the EC. If the only issue is graphics, then it's not a show stopper.

It is a HUGE show stopper because it is the graphics that prevents a lot of CC users from using the EC on a daily basis.  NO matter how good a game is or the UI that controls it is if you can not stand to look at the graphics then you sure as hell will not play it.  How about UO scraps the EC Graphics and just uses the CC Graphics, now we have the better Graphics with the better UI, win win for everyone.

I didn't say scrap CC graphics. I mean since they say EC can port in CC graphics, is there anything else CC users need?

Pls read through above again before jumping in, so there is no fight.

If your only issue is the graphics then it's not a showstopper already - because it's Possible to have CC graphics called into EC. Just so it's one client.

It's better we not waste the above valuable inputs. If we want to make things happen positively. No one is saying to scrap either graphics.

But if your CC player base only issue is graphics there is already a solution, perhaps just need Broadsword to commission Pinco to do it.

This is what I mean the graphics problem is not a showstopper.

Ps. I should add the word "maybe" not a show stopper. Need the right person to confirm this.

Cookie

Seth said:

I think diehard CC users need to open up EC and tell the Dev what you need them to do to use the EC. If the only issue is graphics, then it's not a show stopper.

Everything about EC is a show stopper, it is complicated, horrible to use, takes time I don't have to set-up.

The Grid backpack is horrible, the grid system is horrible, the graphics all round are horrific, it plays badly, the characters movement does not feel integrated they float on top. In your picture - to make the Classic Client backpack look that bad, you had to convert from EC to do that, a normal CC backpack would not look like that. You are also correct, your grid system backpack is just way too big, you cannot see half of it, the images are not clear what they are.

CC graphics are just artistically better. The movement style just feels right. Actions look and feel how they should.

You cannot compare something that is aesthetically right, with something that is aesthetically wrong.

For example - the following 2 pictures are both forms of transport - one is just better from every aesthetic design perspective.

The Aston Martin is the Classic Client.

This Donkey is the EC

I agree with the opening poster - CC just needs as much built into it as possible.

They have done a lot, and that is cool - what would be great now - would be to add Supernova Potions to the Use Object macros - and some form of Dismount self/Remount self macro - then I am fairly sure my UOA is fully replaced and I am able to use Classic Client alone in my PvP gameplay.

Edit - to add the other 2 most important issues;

Targetting. In *** for example - you can just drag your mouse across the screen, and it picks up every target on the screen - in CC, this can be seriously difficult in any big fight - individually picking up the party bars of 20 fast flowing moving players is almost impossible.

Party bars also - only 10 bars makes life difficult - especially when you are in 10v10 and want to heal your 10, as well as attack the other 10.

In my PvM gameplay - I would like some form of Autoloot, and Auto-Scavenge.

Bilbo

Seth said:

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

I think diehard CC users need to open up EC and tell the Dev what you need them to do to use the EC. If the only issue is graphics, then it's not a show stopper.

It is a HUGE show stopper because it is the graphics that prevents a lot of CC users from using the EC on a daily basis.  NO matter how good a game is or the UI that controls it is if you can not stand to look at the graphics then you sure as hell will not play it.  How about UO scraps the EC Graphics and just uses the CC Graphics, now we have the better Graphics with the better UI, win win for everyone.

I didn't say scrap CC graphics. I mean since they say EC can port in CC graphics, is there anything else CC users need?

Pls read through above again before jumping in, so there is no fight.

If your only issue is the graphics then it's not a showstopper already - because it's Possible to have CC graphics called into EC. Just so it's one client.

It's better we not waste the above valuable inputs. If we want to make things happen positively. No one is saying to scrap either graphics.

But if your CC player base only issue is graphics there is already a solution, perhaps just need Broadsword to commission Pinco to do it.

This is what I mean the graphics problem is not a showstopper.

Ps. I should add the word "maybe" not a show stopper. Need the right person to confirm this.

Maybe you should read what it took just to do those floor tiles, it is not a just snap your fingers and EC can use ALL CC Graphics so it is a MAJOR show stopper and a very labor intensive job to go through everything in CC Graphics and to convert them over to EC just look at the grass in the EC.

@Cookie I love your Graphics comparison 

ForeverFun

Artwork preferences can certainly be a subjective and highly taste dependent thing.

The EC female wraith form graphic is far better than the wraith form in CC.  The male wraith form in EC is a head scratcher.

Playing CC on a high resolution monitor (2560x1600 and up) looks very strange, IMHO.  Macroing system built into CC (no 3rd party add-ons) also seems very limited vs. EC.

Somebody brought up operating systems.  I'd say CC is like Windows 95, and EC is like NT based Windows.  Microsoft no longer supports Win95.

dvvid

Not sure why people think opinions are facts. 

Victim_Of_Siege

dvvid said:

Not sure why people think opinions are facts. 

if someone said it on the internetz, it must be true . . .

vortex

Cookie said:

Seth said:

I think diehard CC users need to open up EC and tell the Dev what you need them to do to use the EC. If the only issue is graphics, then it's not a show stopper.

Everything about EC is a show stopper, it is complicated, horrible to use, takes time I don't have to set-up.

The Grid backpack is horrible, the grid system is horrible, the graphics all round are horrific, it plays badly, the characters movement does not feel integrated they float on top. In your picture - to make the Classic Client backpack look that bad, you had to convert from EC to do that, a normal CC backpack would not look like that. You are also correct, your grid system backpack is just way too big, you cannot see half of it, the images are not clear what they are.

CC graphics are just artistically better. The movement style just feels right. Actions look and feel how they should.

You cannot compare something that is aesthetically right, with something that is aesthetically wrong.

For example - the following 2 pictures are both forms of transport - one is just better from every aesthetic design perspective.

The Aston Martin is the Classic Client.

This Donkey is the EC

I agree with the opening poster - CC just needs as much built into it as possible.

They have done a lot, and that is cool - what would be great now - would be to add Supernova Potions to the Use Object macros - and some form of Dismount self/Remount self macro - then I am fairly sure my UOA is fully replaced and I am able to use Classic Client alone in my PvP gameplay.

Edit - to add the other 2 most important issues;

Targetting. In **** for example - you can just drag your mouse across the screen, and it picks up every target on the screen - in CC, this can be seriously difficult in any big fight - individually picking up the party bars of 20 fast flowing moving players is almost impossible.

Party bars also - only 10 bars makes life difficult - especially when you are in 10v10 and want to heal your 10, as well as attack the other 10.

In my PvM gameplay - I would like some form of Autoloot, and Auto-Scavenge.

Exactly how I feel about the CC lol

Seth

@Cookie

The EC can also let you switch the backpack between grid and legacy, if you insist on using the CC backpack.

My suggestion was to have a switch, so players can choose between EC or CC graphics inside EC, so all users can benefit from EC UI without 3rd party.

If the above is possible, there is no need to compare the graphics. Btw, I don't think its a good comparison to use a modern day sports car and a donkey together. Could we not go there but focus on how to merge the two into one.

@Bilbo ;

Yeah, I know Arroth did mention its requires work to convert the files. At least its not to redraw everything from scratch, and someone has already started work on it.

So, option A:

Should we continue to revamp CC by spending time to add EC UI into CC? End result is still 2 clients.

Or option B:

Since graphics is the main issue, what if they spend time to convert CC graphics into current EC instead, and allow players to switch between the two. IF this is feasible, it will have the following benefits:

- One client for the small Dev team to focus, manage, debug, and improve upon for All players.

- Switchable graphics between CC and EC type

- CC users can enjoy uo supported macro systems, hotbars, etc.

Between option A and B, it has nothing to do with which graphics is prettier. Even if option B requires more time, it benefits everyone which is why I said its win-win. Ofcourse, this is just an opinion and Dev will still need to evaluate the technical feasibility. I don't think we should hold @Arroth_Thaiel for the accuracy of the detailed process. It may be harder than just being "labor intensive", unthinkable and impossible.

Ok I think I have spent enough time to contribute my constructive comments to this topic, nothing further to add.

Bilbo

Seth said:

@ Cookie

The EC can also let you switch the backpack between grid and legacy, if you insist on using the CC backpack.

My suggestion was to have a switch, so players can choose between EC or CC graphics inside EC, so all users can benefit from EC UI without 3rd party.

If the above is possible, there is no need to compare the graphics. Btw, I don't think its a good comparison to use a modern day sports car and a donkey together. Could we not go there but focus on how to merge the two into one.

@ Bilbo 

Yeah, I know Arroth did mention its requires work to convert the files. At least its not to redraw everything from scratch, and someone has already started work on it.

So, option A:

Should we continue to revamp CC by spending time to add EC UI into CC? End result is still 2 clients.

Or option B:

Since graphics is the main issue, what if they spend time to convert CC graphics into current EC instead, and allow players to switch between the two. IF this is feasible, it will have the following benefits:

- One client for the small Dev team to focus, manage, debug, and improve upon for All players.

- Switchable graphics between CC and EC type

- CC users can enjoy uo supported macro systems, hotbars, etc.

Between option A and B, it has nothing to do with which graphics is prettier. Even if option B requires more time, it benefits everyone which is why I said its win-win. Ofcourse, this is just an opinion and Dev will still need to evaluate the technical feasibility. I don't think we should hold @ Arroth_Thaiel for the accuracy of the detailed process. It may be harder than just being "labor intensive", unthinkable and impossible.

Ok I think I have spent enough time to contribute my constructive comments to this topic, nothing further to add.

Or Option C is we upgrade the CC UI and dump the EC which benefits everyone.