Undress/Dress Macro Addition to Classic Client

Cookie

 Petra_Fyde said:

@ Cookie  I think you missed this part of Kyronix's post:

due to the nature of this change we would have to bypass our normal release scheme of TC->Origin etc->World Wide which would not allow a feedback period before this feature was released worldwide via server and both clients. 

I think that means it's a client patch thing. 

Yep, tiredness, thank you.

Ozzy's post is even more pertinent then.

The_Higgs_1

I like how they are willing to balance both clients in this.  My only question is if it goes straight through, how do you know there wont be issues if its not tested.   Is it possible to guarantee there would be no way to bypass the timer/cooldown.  People are already taking advantage of other things to bypass timers which can be a major concern when it comes to something like this.  How ever I don't think its all that game changing to swap suits anyway.  There are many other problems that I think should be fixed first.

Az_

I would like to know a few things to help me give constructive feedback on the EC changes.

Are each of the following changes done to balance the clients due to some limitation in the CC or to prevent instant suit/item swaps

1)  Change to require  clicking undress  then clicking dress

2)  1s delay between undress/dress

3)  delay after undress/dress macro before the next undress

Xare

The irony in this thread is that not one person has provided an example of how this will adversely affect their game play.

Skett

If this game has become so complicated/complex. If it was made less complicated/complex maybe old and new players would start to play unfortunately this team seems obsessed with driving players away with their overly thought out game mechanics and requirements to do the simplest or task. The reason I feel suit swapping suits during battle is an not right or even an exploit is because if you have to have SO many different suits/ items just to fight/ compete then maybe we should make some balance changes to armor/ game design. Luck needs to be fixed, making it so you have to have very high luck on a suit just to have a small chance at a drop worth keeping is a complete pita. 

im not looking for an easy button just a lot less pain in the a$$ steps required to do the most basic things. 

Just go and make a cannon and then load it, you will get the point. 

This is game is nothing but a boring grind, what happen to fun and reward. 

TMT

totally for usable dress-macros in CC, please do it!! i don't care about whatever EC but re-dressing after death in CC just sucks the way it is, since 20 years! please please just do it!

Maximus_Neximus

Bleak said:

Petra_Fyde said:

So, if I'm understanding right. You're wearing suit 1 - you swap to suit 2. 1 second to undress, 1 second to dress - and the big delay only comes in if you then decide to switch again, either to a 3rd suit or back to suit 1? 

Correct

I re-read the thread and I may have missed it. But what is the time required for there to not be a delay to switch again?

FinleyGrant

Why making it so complicated? 1 switch 5 min cooldown. Job done.

Exclude weapons or in general stuff you have in hand. 

Switching suits Is a nice thing to help people who cannot spend much to be still able to take the advantage of luck towards the loot without making an insane luck suit which is good enough to actually fight.

Bleak

Kyronix said:

Greetings,

As many of you have read in our last newsletter, the Classic Client is slated for an update which will allow access to an Undress/Dress macro similar to the current functionality in the Enhanced Client.  We had slated this change for 102, however, due to the nature of this change we would have to bypass our normal release scheme of TC->Origin etc->World Wide which would not allow a feedback period before this feature was released worldwide via server and both clients.  Before we proceed with this change, we would like to garner feedback.  

Currently the undress/dress macro allows for a one second delay between each macro action.  With the addition of this ability in the CC, there would be an increased delay after the redress macro dependent on the number of items attempting to be reequipped.  This is to increase parity between the functionality between both clients as well as maintain balance.  This delay is in line with the current action-use delays you normally experience in the world.

To be clear, the flow of the macro, in both clients, would look like this:

Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress -> delay at 1s per item -> Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress

We expect there will be passionate opinions on both sides, so we are encouraging you to have another look at the posting guidelines before you reply.  Remember there's another human behind the keyboard and to keep things respectful.  We look forward to your feedback.

We have decided to allow testing of the delay change on TC1 using the Enhanced Client only. This change is now available on TC1. We look forward to your feedback.

InLor

But clicking a corpse gives you insta-dress in CC...why the delay?

edit: never mind, seems I misunderstood.. the delay is in between dress/undressing..

cobb

pretty sure you will still be able to double click your corpse to insta-dress

Mervyn

Kyronix said:

To be clear, the flow of the macro, in both clients, would look like this:

Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress -> delay at 1s per item -> Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress

As it currently stands on test centre, This information is not correct, you can still switch suits instantly without the requirement to undress.

So there's basically no change to the current system (other than you can't switch back to the previous suit instantly).

This doesn't really help anyone or change anything. You can still insta suit switch in pvp from a non medible suit to a medable suit, (obtain mana) and switch back again. You can also still just switch to a luck suit to do the last hit on a creature. There's just a small delay on being able to switch back.. which won't be an issue as the creature will then be dead.

Without the requirement to undress before redress as stated in Kyronix's macro flow, there has been 0 improvement. Effectively nothing has changed.

http://sendvid.com/585ozanc

I phoned an old friend and recommended he return as it looked as though things were improving when I read this macro flow originally, however now I feel bad for recommending the return. As nothing has changed, may tell him not to bother now. Looks like we are never ever ever getting back together.

(Side note, the test centre tools in the EC are very nice feature, as is quest givers with an exclamation mark above their head like in world of warcraft, how long has that been about?)

Kyronix

This hasn’t been released as of the latest update to TC1.  

Edit: See Bleak's post above

Mervyn

Bleak said: We have decided to allow testing of the delay change on TC1 using the Enhanced Client only. This change is now available on TC1. 

You go talk to your friends talk to my friends talk to me

Kyronix said:

This hasn’t been released as of the latest update to TC1.  

Pawain

Mervyn said:

This doesn't really help anyone or change anything. You can still insta suit switch in pvp from a non medible suit to a medable suit, (obtain mana) and switch back again. You can also still just switch to a luck suit to do the last hit on a creature. There's just a small delay on being able to switch back.. which won't be an issue as the creature will then be dead.

Sounds like it is working as intended.  Like I said why add any delay?

Mervyn

Deleted

Mervyn

Bleak said:You hit your undress macro which results in you becoming undressed then a 1 second delay which is the same as production. You hit the dress macro which results in all of your items being equipped then a 1 second delay per item before your next undress action.

No undress required still, so not working

See video

Az_

I like the way it is working on test center.  This will allow people to switch from pvm to pvp suit when raided at spawns, while still preventing them from abusing it by switching multiple times quickly during a fight.

Mervyn

But the issue was not about multiple switches in a short period of time, the issue was about insta suit switching, the macro flow was laid out to include UNDRESS, If they just rolled out this “change” without mentioning it, nobody would even have noticed it, ever.

There is nothing to test on TC, there is no change. You’re supposed to have to undress a piece before dress. It’s not working.

Larisa

The EC IS LAGGY AS HECK omg that was painful...and even though I hate to agree with Merv here   I KID!  He is correct....now there is a 2 second delay in switching from suit 2 back to suit 1, but going from suit 1 to suit 2 is instantaneous...I get the "You must wait to perform another action" message when I try to go from 2 to 1, but once I am wearing 1 I can insta-switch to 2....

So at least for me, unless it's the lag, I am getting this:

Suit 1 > Suit 2 is Instant....2 second delay....Suit 2 > Suit 1...NO DELAY..Suit 1 > Suit 2

So basically I think what Merv wants here is to actually have your character completely naked before re-dressing, which would make sense...the UOA macro I use puts one piece on at a time, not all at once.

Petra_Fyde

But if the CC macro works exactly the same way, when it's added - is there still a problem?
What macro is everyone using?  Are you using the 'undress' before the 'dress'?  or just using an equip macro alone?  If using an equip macro alone should you get a 'you are already wearing' type message? 

Mervyn

You should indeed get a message “you are already wearing...” (or it just fail) however you don’t (see video) it still just insta switches. I used the equip item macro only without using unequip. So the unequip action is still obsolete. If they implement this on CC also, it would make a total mockery of the game. 

I think possibly the devs didn’t realised the equip macro worked like this (bypassing unequip). That may explain why it has worked this way since release of EC. 

Tim

No not needing unequip first was not an error it was a greatly appreciated improvement added much later to EC macro system. It made the macro system much easer to use and less likely fail or glitch. If you tell a macro to put item A into slot B why should you have to tell the program to empty slot B first?

As on TC the change is not acceptable.
If you are not watching closely you will not likely see that your equip command didn't work. Not good at any time let alone in combat.

More importantly I haven't seen any argument justifying the need for hobbling EC. In PVP you have been dealing with this for years and if it was that big a problem why haven't you switched to EC long ago? If you want to limit the EC change to Fel rule set I won't like it but ok. As for the "Luck" issue in PVM I suggest you read http://www.uoguide.com/Luck and tell me were they are wrong or how it adversely effects you.

The two clients are NOT equal hence people choosing to use one or the other. Pick one and stop trying to make the one I chose worse.

Parnoc

Tim said:

No not needing unequip first was not an error it was a greatly appreciated improvement added much later to EC macro system. It made the macro system much easer to use and less likely fail or glitch. If you tell a macro to put item A into slot B why should you have to tell the program to empty slot B first?

As on TC the change is not acceptable.
If you are not watching closely you will not likely see that your equip command didn't work. Not good at any time let alone in combat.

More importantly I haven't seen any argument justifying the need for hobbling EC. In PVP you have been dealing with this for years and if it was that big a problem why haven't you switched to EC long ago? If you want to limit the EC change to Fel rule set I won't like it but ok. As for the "Luck" issue in PVM I suggest you read http://www.uoguide.com/Luck and tell me were they are wrong or how it adversely effects you.

The two clients are NOT equal hence people choosing to use one or the other. Pick one and stop trying to make the one I chose worse.

I agree absolutely and totally!!

cobb

Bleak said:

Petra_Fyde said:

So, if I'm understanding right. You're wearing suit 1 - you swap to suit 2. 1 second to undress, 1 second to dress - and the big delay only comes in if you then decide to switch again, either to a 3rd suit or back to suit 1? 

Correct

From reading this , it is supposed to take 2 seconds to swap suits the first time. 1 sec to undress +  1 second to dress  adds up to 2 seconds.  It is not supposed to be instant.

Blargety

And you ‘Oomies callin duh Orcs savedjes. 

You guys reading what you type before you hit enter here? There’s a person on the other side of those posts. They’re entitled to an opinion, same as you. 

Personally, I think the devs should just spend a bit more time in the EC that will enable CC sprites at the toggle of a switch. Then us EC players will stop getting called speed hackers by CC players who don’t get it because they’re too concerned about the pixels. Then they can stop supporting the CC all together by allowing players to just click “Classic Client Mode” as an option. 

Who knows what the real issue is though, maybe there’s a lot of spaghetti code built into the game preventing that from being a thing.

Either way, I appreciate the hell out of all the devs doing work on this. You guys do you, we’re the players, we should adapt and grow with the game you are cultivating. 

Hoowah!

Tim

Intended or not. Not having to unequip before equip in a macro is how it should be. To say otherwise is like saying if I wished to change a word on this post rather then just highlighting it and typing the new word I should be made to delete each letter of the first then enter the new word. 

Macros only exist to make life easier not more complicated. Like a 1 step macro rather then one with 20. (unequip then equip for 10 items 1 at a time)

All of which is beside the point.

The stated reason for the change in EC is to create parity with a new feature in CC. If that justifies making EC player's game less enjoyable, then the equip action should have been removed from EC years ago.

What is missing is a GAME design issue that this change is intended to fix. 

@Kyronix could you please post what game behaviour/exploit you are trying to correct or prevent. It would save a lot of wasted posts and probably an awful lot of warnings about rules of conduct. I can think of a few it might be, but I can also think of ways around your fix to get the same results.
If the only issue is PVP then make it a Fel rule set only fix.

As I see it after having tried it on TS1 your fix is just annoying for no apparent reason. 

Mariah

Some posts have been removed or edited. Please do not include personal attacks in your posts.

Mervyn

Yes the equip action should’ve been corrected years ago, just because people have been complaining about it for years and it wasn’t changed, doesn’t mean it’s working. 

It is a game, you’re not supposed to be able to perform actions instantly, it makes the game bad. Let us say the issue was casting spells and say EC casted spells instantly, no delay. You would want to keep this feature and add it to CC cos it’s more efficient? And no it’s not a PvP exclusive issue.
People have been been complaining about phantom mobs on EC since its release. Are we to just say phantom mobs is now a feature? 

Kyronix has made clear the intended macro flow in the OP. Which includes undress. I’m repeating now. This debate has been had and resulted in the macro flow described in the OP however for some reason its not working that way on Test Centre.. 
and now you’re saying leave it broken... 

Skull

For the undress delay can we have an option for a tantalizing delay.