Undress/Dress Macro Addition to Classic Client

Mervyn

Mariah said:

In blaming this proposed change on a particular player 

Stop the blame game and start giving actual reasons and examples of how this would adversely affect your gameplay.

I’m not sure “blame” is the right word, you don’t “blame” someone for a bug fix, “credit” is the correct word to use. Bug fixed are ALWAYS a positive thing. 

Mariah

Please do not put words in my mouth Mervyn.  I will use the words I find appropriate.

In any case this is a proposed addition to the classic client. It is not a 'bug fix'.

Mervyn

Nobody is unhappy about the addition to the classic client. It’s the change to the EC that I think stops the bug that you’re able to dress without undressing which is the hot topic. From what Kyronix described the macro loop, having to undress is new. As what people were doing were dressing a whole suit without undressing first. And this was a bug, because why else would there be a macro to unequip/undress in EC.

There are 2 things that are unclear.

1 we don’t know for sure if you do need to unequip an item.

2 we don’t know if you have to unequip a weapon before equipping a new one, (if not using previous weapon macro)

Rorschach

Mervyn. Please refer to the title of the thread. This is about dress/undress. Do not confuse the issue.

Mervyn

I’m not confusing anything.

nobody is upset about adding dress to CC.

The “Arm” and “equip” macro on EC IS the dress macro,

they’re not 2 different macros, it’s all the same macro. And Kyronix says the macro loop includes “undress” which would be new. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

Church

I don't see why this is an issue at all. make CC the same as EC. same game so why shouldnt it be the same.  UOA is very slow redressing and undressing. If the EC guys are complaining about EZUO and Razor and or any other 3rd party programs, too bad.. they are ILLEGAL to use to begin with. even with that being said, if it takes a 3rd party program to achieve what EC can do to make it even, then quit crying.. good grief people it's a game, not reality. 

Xare

Church said:

I don't see why this is an issue at all. make CC the same as EC. same game so why shouldnt it be the same.  UOA is very slow redressing and undressing. If the EC guys are complaining about EZUO and Razor and or any other 3rd party programs, too bad.. they are ILLEGAL to use to begin with. even with that being said, if it takes a 3rd party program to achieve what EC can do to make it even, then quit crying.. good grief people it's a game, not reality. 

The CC is incapable of doing exactly the way the EC does it, hence this proposal.

Pawain

To answer the question.  The code is already in place.  To add a 1 second delay to the code will mean they have to recode the EC.

If the CC has an inherent one second delay than change that code instead or leave the EC alone.
If the CC has to have the 1 second delay then so be it. 

Doesn't UO assist have no delay already?  Why can they do it?

There are many things in the game that are specific to Trammel and Fel.  Lets keep going in that direction.

Change this in Fel ruleset.  Leave CC as is.

cobb

Lmao. Uo assist doesn't have instant armor swapping.

Xare

Pawain said:

To answer the question.  The code is already in place.  To add a 1 second delay to the code will mean they have to recode the EC.

If the CC has an inherent one second delay than change that code instead or leave the EC alone.
If the CC has to have the 1 second delay then so be it. 

Doesn't UO assist have no delay already?  Why can they do it?

There are many things in the game that are specific to Trammel and Fel.  Lets keep going in that direction.

Change this in Fel ruleset.  Leave CC as is.

Still avoiding the question I see.  Good job.

UOA does NOT do this instantly, it equips each item one at a time.

Change the inherent, been there since pre-alpha code?  Do you realize what you're asking?  Yes, adding a delay on EC sucks, but that's basically the price to pay for servicing 2 clients.  It would be inherently unfair to have one client have no delay and the other have significant delay.

As for keeping it in fel, I think the use of this feature is in tram than it is in fel.  I'm personally indifferent to this change, as it will have no impact on my day-to-day play.  My characters generally only run one suit, be it pve or pvp.

Cetric

Make sure you can swap weaps instantly even in cc.  Cc users have bypassed the item swap delay by casting create food or the like to swap weaps faster.  Unfortunately that doesn't work well for a spell channeling weapon.  

I see no problems in allowing instant swaps of weapons.  The last weap macro is t that great because when you get disarmed it's all reset.  

Mervyn

Even when you use create food to disarm in CC, you still have to disarm to change weap (if not using equip last weap macro which does indeed mess up when you get disarmed) 
I would welcome the need to have to disarm before arm, it just makes sense all across the board. What’s the point in having different weapons doing different specials if you can just switch to any weapon to do any special willy nilly?

FinleyGrant

God I need more popcorn....

Cookie

 FinleyGrant said:

God I need more popcorn....

I blame Kyronix, he is on a different level...

I do the odd controversial post, he starts entire thread wars (with full moderator backing...!!! Just imagine what I could do with that.... ).

But seriously to the Devs, thanks for looking at this, I do think it's needed, and you seem to be on an ok track. You seem to have gone for a middle ground.

And while I'm at it, thanks for the Halloween content that kicked off fully today, I've actually enjoyed a lot of this content, there is a lot there for all sorts of players.   

Mervyn

Bleak said:

Maximus_Neximus said:

Xare said:

Kyronix said:

Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress -> delay at 1s per item -> Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress

Can I (we) get some clarification on this?  After rereading this, I'm interpreting this as if a player just as a simple dress macro for after they die, it would equip everything instantly.  If used in a macro that switches gear, it would include a delay based on the number of items after the dress before it was undressed.

You hit your undress macro and it will have a 1s delay until you're undressed. You hit dress and you have a delay of 1s per item until you're fully dressed.

This is incorrect. You hit your undress macro which results in you becoming undressed then a 1 second delay which is the same as production. You hit the dress macro which results in all of your items being equipped then a 1 second delay per item before your next undress action.

So you definitely do have to undress first? Cos currently on EC, there is no requirement to undress first. And does this extend to arming weapons? as arming weapons also is the same macro as dress on EC.

Bilbo

OMG You amaze me Mervyn that it is totally more than your brain can comprehend that the program removes (undresses) and than replaces (dresses) faster than you can see it so to you it never happened.

Cazador

Kyronix said:

Greetings,

As many of you have read in our last newsletter, the Classic Client is slated for an update which will allow access to an Undress/Dress macro similar to the current functionality in the Enhanced Client.  We had slated this change for 102, however, due to the nature of this change we would have to bypass our normal release scheme of TC->Origin etc->World Wide which would not allow a feedback period before this feature was released worldwide via server and both clients.  Before we proceed with this change, we would like to garner feedback.  

Currently the undress/dress macro allows for a one second delay between each macro action.  With the addition of this ability in the CC, there would be an increased delay after the redress macro dependent on the number of items attempting to be reequipped.  This is to increase parity between the functionality between both clients as well as maintain balance.  This delay is in line with the current action-use delays you normally experience in the world.

To be clear, the flow of the macro, in both clients, would look like this:

Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress -> delay at 1s per item -> Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress

We expect there will be passionate opinions on both sides, so we are encouraging you to have another look at the posting guidelines before you reply.  Remember there's another human behind the keyboard and to keep things respectful.  We look forward to your feedback.

Undress -> 1s delay -> Full Dress -> 2min Cooldown

Switching suits adds a new dimension to PvP and PvM alike. Also Since the inclusion of the easy +skill jewls I would also consider bumping HP cap(not str) to 170 and skill cap to 755(after some extensive testing)

DISCLAIMER!!
just make sure it doesn’t impede cycling weapons.

Mervyn

Bilbo, in EC, there is an action to undress/unequip, which if used, takes 1 second. Currently this action is obsolete as when you dress, you have no requirement to add this action to a dress macro. However the proposed new macro reads that you do now have to add this action to the macro. I hope this helps.

Bilbo

And yet you still rant that there is no undress so it must pure magic to you I guess.

Cetric

Mervyn said:

Even when you use create food to disarm in CC, you still have to disarm to change weap (if not using equip last weap macro which does indeed mess up when you get disarmed) 
I would welcome the need to have to disarm before arm, it just makes sense all across the board. What’s the point in having different weapons doing different specials if you can just switch to any weapon to do any special willy nilly?

No.  You create macros that create food-arm weapon.  So that bypasses the period of time where you are open handed.  Having an open hand even for a second is a lifetime.

Mervyn

So what’s stopping you cast create food on EC to bypass the timer?

Parnoc

PLEASE leave the EC alone for PVM, it's been that way for how many years now and no one had complained about it, why fix it? For cryin' out loud what game changing advantage is it for only us Trammie PVmers?  

PVPers got increased PS's in Khaldun worth how many plats of gold, and we get nerfed because we might get one Legendary or one more better piece of armor on a kill? 

How danged fair is that!!

Leave stuff alone instead of trolling and trying to ruin our game Mervyn.

Mervyn

No one had complained about it...
strange how everyone in my circle of friends complains about it for years and years. 

For every 1 comment on the forums I get about trolling I receive a dozen fan mail and comments of support via icq etc. It doesn’t bother me at all. 

Mariah

Please drop the rhetoric and give actual examples of how this change would adversely affect your game play.

McDougle

Arnie QuickPalm has just formed the NWA naked wrestling association all this dress and undress nonsense would dramatically impact every bout , thus cutting into Arnie's profits do we need to even discuss further???

Ozzy

I would come at his from the MVP (minimal viable product) aspect. It sounds like these are two different User Stories that are being jumbled up into one.

1. Add dress macro to Classic Client
2. Balance dress macro

There is a ton of speculation in this thread about game balance for pvp/pvm. I would do the least amount of work and adjust after feedback from actual usage.

Bilbo

As a PvMer correct me if I am wrong but I get 1 swap with a 1 sec delay and I am ready to go but if I swap back to suit 1 or to suit 3 I get a 1 sec delay per piece that is being swapped which is what 15 sec max, now unless I am doing this in Fel at a spawn I really do not see this affecting me one bit but in Fel as a PvMer trying to get back into a fighting suit because of a raid/PK would be sudden death.
Now as a PvPer/PKer depending on what I am fighting I should be ok but if I need to quick swap to a different suit because of a different threat I am still good but if I need to swap back because of threat #1 came at me again I can not return to the suit quickly and could be sudden death for me.  I could see groups (2 or more) of PvMers/PvPers/PKers setting up different threat types to take advantage of this against the solo PvPer/PKer.

Questions
How long does this condition last, is there a timer on it.
Will we get a icon to tell us we are under this undress/dress timer rule

Cookie

Bilbo said:

As a PvMer correct me if I am wrong but I get 1 swap with a 1 sec delay and I am ready to go but if I swap back to suit 1 or to suit 3 I get a 1 sec delay per piece that is being swapped which is what 15 sec max, now unless I am doing this in Fel at a spawn I really do not see this affecting me one bit but in Fel as a PvMer trying to get back into a fighting suit because of a raid/PK would be sudden death.
Now as a PvPer/PKer depending on what I am fighting I should be ok but if I need to quick swap to a different suit because of a different threat I am still good but if I need to swap back because of threat #1 came at me again I can not return to the suit quickly and could be sudden death for me.  I could see groups (2 or more) of PvMers/PvPers/PKers setting up different threat types to take advantage of this against the solo PvPer/PKer.

Questions
How long does this condition last, is there a timer on it.
Will we get a icon to tell us we are under this undress/dress timer rule

Lol. This is a perfectly good post by you, but I am struggling to picture it in my head to give any sort of decent response. This is my issue with much of this thread.

I wish there was a "Like" function on these forums - please fix that for us Devs. I really liked Ozzy's post just above, and have to go to the effort of posting, when I could have just registered a "Like".

There seems to be a lot of confusion as Ozzy says, a lot of rhetoric as Mariah says, a lot of players defending pre-conceived notions, and as I've said, I'm struggling to picture it, to give a proper response.

I think as Ozzy said, maybe get it into Test, so players can see and feel it.

Petra_Fyde

@Cookie ; I think you missed this part of Kyronix's post:

due to the nature of this change we would have to bypass our normal release scheme of TC->Origin etc->World Wide which would not allow a feedback period before this feature was released worldwide via server and both clients. 

I think that means it's a client patch thing. 

Garth_Grey

I can't understand how this is the hottest topic of the day.