Beta Week 3 Objectives feedback

Pawain

I did the Titanweave Spider with a group.

It worked and was fun.

loop

Played VERY briefly on the divergent path, and it seems to me that skill gain is much less fast than production shards? I’m wondering if other folks had the same first impression.

Skill gain seemed to be awarded on killing an enemy (for some skills?) and in larger chunks, but it’s much less frequent. My healing and anatomy skills at 30 didn’t raise very much in the hour or so I could play.

I guess I could have stuck around the Frontier battle a little bit longer. I found it counter intuitive. The enemies were super strong. At first, I thought I needed to actively participate, but then I saw that the timer still decreased even if I did nothing. Then, I wondered if the Frontier was literally a waiting room of sorts, which rubbed me the wrong way. I then realized that the encounter is optional and you can just skip it effectively. 

The objective of “retreating” threw me off, as retreating is a negative thing. I thought retreating might force the encounter to start over or something and the timer to restart. Turns out it just permits you to move forward.

A very, very brief first impression, but I still feel like I’m playing UO-lite with frustrating obstacles, but I hope to explore the divergent path more.

Moresley

Pawain is a dev?

loop

Regarding the Frontier, another thought: Even if I wanted to stick around longer, why would I? I can gain skills but can’t loot enemies for gold. The use of arrows, bandages, and reagents all entail a cost. At the early stages, gold is precious. I can’t recall whether these commodities are “refilled” upon retreating — that might be the case.

Mariah

Moresley said:

Pawain is a dev?

No, but he is extensively testing NL and being very helpful with his posts.

AtomicBetty

I gave the divergent path 20 minutes skill gain was brutally horrible.  But I find advanced skill training the same way skill gain is awful.

Moresley

Is Pawain's hatred of "skilling" influencing the development of New Legacy?

Its just weird ya'all have put in skill gain, but also not?  Like what is the issue with skill gain like it was in UO?  Why this version of it? (speaking of this weekend's version) 

Pawain

Moresley said:

Is Pawain's hatred of "skilling" influencing the development of New Legacy?

Its just weird ya'all have put in skill gain, but also not?  Like what is the issue with skill gain like it was in UO?  Why this version of it? (speaking of this weekend's version) 

This divergent plan is for those of you that want to skill the old way. Which like you said I hate.  So clearly I am not a Dev or I would have said suck it up buttercup and skill the way NL was designed. Thank goodness they are not removing quest skilling.

IMO for Fighting skills they should have made the quests send you to a dungeon where the mobs are on floors. 
Kill x amount of mobs on first floor, you go from 50 to 60.
Kill x amount on second floor, you go from 60 to 70.

Etcetera.

Not sure why you are complaining that the devs are changing things because of player feedback, even tho it is horrible feedback IMO.

Also I think vets have forgotten how long it takes to skill a character in UO with just doing,  most of use know the tricks and we use them or soulstones to create a new template.  That is why I call the doing methods the 3 year plan. 

Hopefully they will not let yall gain skills by casting on yourself and by beating on someones pet.

Moresley

If possible could we have an answer on whether Pawain is having an influence on the direction this server is taking?

Most appreciated, thanks.

Pawain

Moresley said:

If possible could we have an answer on whether Pawain is having an influence on the direction this server is taking?

Most appreciated, thanks.

They added stuff I did not want WTF are you talking about?  Everyone but Pawain was listened to.

Why should my feedback not be listened to, when they are listening to others feedback?

I know there is a lot of laughter about this topic in the devs offices. 

Moresley

Look I don't want beef with you.  I'm trying to get a handle on how things are done, they said you're extensively testing, and you have an opinion, a strong one, an opinion that seems counter to how I want to play the game, if they're taking your advice, maybe this isn't a game for me.

I think the general request is for the option, not necessarily the removal of the quests.

You keep doing this, no one is asking for 3 years of skill gain, we are not even asking for slow skill gain, we are asking for the old style of skill gain, not the old length of skill gain.

edit:

They can laugh all they want, you can too, but is the game is made better by requiring us to make 45 items to gain 2.0 skill, but then adding in a quest mechanism and requiring BODs both which have a delay.. so effectively you're waiting.. instead of playing?  You think oh the crafter can go harvest, what if the crafter does not wish to go harvest?  Is it made better by having to complete killing monster quests to be able to gain magic resist? 

The result might be near the same, but not really... if this is supposed to be a fast way to gain skill, I was gaining nothing at all by healing my teammates, nothing at all by attacking and falling back when failing.. 

What was wrong with the style of gaining skill from doing the action?  Seriously, this isn't quicker, this isn't easier.  Quicker is something we can adjust, it isn't easier, its adding more things to do that aren't just gaining the skill. How is running around trying to find the skill resist guy more fun than just oop I got hit with a fireball, I'm a little better at resisting fireballs?  Especially if you're trying to replicate that by having folks fight magic creatures.. Its not easier, its not more accessible, its not quicker, its confusing, frustrating.

We have this amazing game that so many people love, it felt so different, so organic, this doesn't feel like that anymore.  Even playing as a warrior, doesn't feel special, doesn't feel like we're in a world, feels very much more gamey in a bad way than UO did.  I think its going to cost players, you can have a quest system without forcing players to use it.

Also I don't want to be doing this, I don't want to be on the forums instead of in the bloody game, but even with the adjustments I was tearing my hair out.

Pawain

Moresley said:

Look I don't want beef with you.  I'm trying to get a handle on how things are done, they said you're extensively testing, and you have an opinion, a strong one, an opinion that seems counter to how I want to play the game, if they're taking your advice, maybe this isn't a game for me.

I think the general request is for the option, not necessarily the removal of the quests.

You keep doing this, no one is asking for 3 years of skill gain, we are not even asking for slow skill gain, we are asking for the old style of skill gain, not the old length of skill gain.

Yes and they listened to yall and are telling you to test the divergent path.
Did you read this link?  https://uo.com/wiki/new-legacy-beta/new-legacy-beta-dev-diaries/

Are you doing that, because I am definitely not going to.  Don't blame me when your divergent method is horrible.

McDougle

I did try the divergent path and didn't feel like it was working properly and couldn't gain in focus at all (I was a macer)

Pawain

McDougle said:

I did try the divergent path and didn't feel like it was working properly and couldn't gain in focus at all (I was a macer)

I think they need more info than that to modify it.  Especially when you do not specify what you think working properly is.  Nor have you given any information on how long you tried it and what you were trying it on. Nor what were your skills when you started it and what were your skills after x hours of killing stuff.

Moresley

"Are you doing that, because I am definitely not going to.  Don't blame me when your divergent method is horrible."

Yeah, the idea is bad from the start, having to get a kill to gain a skill.  

edit: As well as locking skills behind anything.. talking to people, spending gold.. doing a quest.. the UO experience is what I came here for, I'll say it again, the UO experience, Ultima Online, like it says on the game.

Pawain

Moresley said:

"Are you doing that, because I am definitely not going to.  Don't blame me when your divergent method is horrible."

Yeah, the idea is bad from the start, having to get a kill to gain a skill.

I have a feeling that they do not want us to "skill" like we do on prodo shards.  By casting spells on ourselves or fighting a pet that never dies.  But, I do not have that as inside info.  Just a hopeful guess.

Things in NL are easy to kill.  So i doubt that would be an obstacle.  OK I'm off to look at the special pets I can get and the congiarum.  That sounds very interesting.

MinocMiner

"I played for 20 minutes and it was horrible"
"I only played VERY briefly and it was horrible"

That's some grade-a testing!

I know reading comprehension isn't everyone's cookie, but between the dev diaries and the text in game when choosing that path, it explains to you what is going on.

And no, this isn't a 1:1 production skill gain system, they have said as much.

You choose starter skills and those are acquired in that advanced training system (you can look at your player information and see you have access to those skills). This tells me only those starter skills can raise.

They also indicate as much by saying "additional skills can be unlocked through advanced skill trainers."

So you get some skills for free and have to purchase new ones from trainers just like everyone else, seems fair.

Most skill gains see to come at intervals and require combat, which is great, no more having to deal with people just afk macroing in towns or their house to gain their skills, you have to actually play the game, how horrible!

A trick I quickly learned with this system, lock what you don't want gains in. If you leave all 5 of your starting skills set to raise, it seems like you randomly get a point in one of those when you kill things. I locked everything but swords and I was consistently getting swords gains.

The gains are also consistent at every level. This is important.

On production, you gain fast early, and then it REALLY drags at higher skills. It seems on new legacy this is consistent at all skill levels. I gain just as fast at 50 as I do at 90. You are also getting skill in chunks of 1.0 instead of 0.1. This probably "feels" slower since you aren't seeing those little hits.

As for the starting island you are sent to. It's an interesting concept. It tosses you right into it, but lets you leave. My guess is the island fight serves as something to keep within the world of new legacy and not just "here's your skills, PLOP you are in a random town, have fun.". Some of the mobs have loot on them. The ones that seem to spawn from that big tower don't, but if you kill the other stuff I was for sure getting loot from them.

Ultimately if you don't like it or think its dumb, just leave, lol. You can literally get through that in under 2 minutes from character creation to being sent to a city.

Moresley

"I have a feeling that they do not want us to "skill" like we do on prodo shards.  By casting spells on ourselves or fighting a pet that never dies. "

That can be fixed very easily by not having the things you don't want to have gain skill, not gain skill. 

"Things in NL are easy to kill.  So i doubt that would be an obstacle.  "

So why the change, why the layers of frustration?


""I played for 20 minutes and it was horrible"
"I only played VERY briefly and it was horrible"

That's some grade-a testing!" 

Come on guy.

Pretty sure I read it, but I'm into playin the game, not reading a bunch of stuff, its not comprehension its coming to the game for enjoyment, same reason I don't want to read dialogue boxes etc.  I want to play and enjoy the game.  But if this is what production looks like, I and many others, I would guess many more than would enjoy this aren't going to subscribe/stay subscribed

Again, not about speed, its about how it feels to play, if I quit because I get frustrated they've added some kind of blockage or requirement to playing the game, that's not good.  Who are they attracting to this server? Some portion of that must be old returning players.  

I think some of the direction is dumb, but I would LOVE to play on a classic UO server that isn't a private buncha nonsense. I think MANY people would too.  I would prefer not to just leave, that's the point.

Pawain

I also am trying farming.  A few things were confusing but I figured them out.

You do not know where your plot is you have to dig in that field to find it.

But I noticed the field goes in order when you buy.

The next buyer would get plot 4.  You get 9 spots to plant, I did not notice the other 3 so I planted those today.

Water your plants daily with a pitcher.

Pawain

@Kyronix ; quite a few mobs drop seeds.  They say error on them.  They cant be planted on a farm.  Provisioner does not sell plant bowls.  

Hopefully we will have plants in NL.

McDougle

Can someone attack your field? 

Kalsey

Moresley said:

If possible could we have an answer on whether Pawain is having an influence on the direction this server is taking?

Most appreciated, thanks.

A few days ago I was frustrated with my experience.  Then I gave it another try.  I love UO and support anything to keep this game alive.  I went back and read many of Pawain posts, and they helped me A LOT.  From his posts and comments in game I am now at 100 in my four mage skills.  I think there is one more quest to complete before I can place a house.  So I can vendor to make gold.

It is obvious to me that Pawain is simply a player that is helping others.  I can tell by his/her questions in game.  He is figuring it out like most of us.  Can we stop with the personal attacks so those of us that are here can continue to learn?

I very much appreciate all the help players give in chat and on message boards.  Especially for those like me that get frustrated.

Hathor  House of Horros

Moresley

I wouldn't characterize it as a personal attack, think I made that clear when I talked about us having different ideas for the game.  But when what I say gets twisted, I don't think its me being the baddie.

Great that you have positive interactions with them, and they are trying to help the server though.

loop

MinocMiner said:

"I played for 20 minutes and it was horrible"
"I only played VERY briefly and it was horrible"

That's some grade-a testing!

I know reading comprehension isn't everyone's cookie, but between the dev diaries and the text in game when choosing that path, it explains to you what is going on.

And no, this isn't a 1:1 production skill gain system, they have said as much.

You choose starter skills and those are acquired in that advanced training system (you can look at your player information and see you have access to those skills). This tells me only those starter skills can raise.

They also indicate as much by saying "additional skills can be unlocked through advanced skill trainers."

So you get some skills for free and have to purchase new ones from trainers just like everyone else, seems fair.

Most skill gains see to come at intervals and require combat, which is great, no more having to deal with people just afk macroing in towns or their house to gain their skills, you have to actually play the game, how horrible!

A trick I quickly learned with this system, lock what you don't want gains in. If you leave all 5 of your starting skills set to raise, it seems like you randomly get a point in one of those when you kill things. I locked everything but swords and I was consistently getting swords gains.

The gains are also consistent at every level. This is important.

On production, you gain fast early, and then it REALLY drags at higher skills. It seems on new legacy this is consistent at all skill levels. I gain just as fast at 50 as I do at 90. You are also getting skill in chunks of 1.0 instead of 0.1. This probably "feels" slower since you aren't seeing those little hits.

As for the starting island you are sent to. It's an interesting concept. It tosses you right into it, but lets you leave. My guess is the island fight serves as something to keep within the world of new legacy and not just "here's your skills, PLOP you are in a random town, have fun.". Some of the mobs have loot on them. The ones that seem to spawn from that big tower don't, but if you kill the other stuff I was for sure getting loot from them.

Ultimately if you don't like it or think it’s dumb, just leave, lol. You can literally get through that in under 2 minutes from character creation to being sent to a city.

I don’t have much time to play. First impressions are important. I noted the brevity of my experience as a caveat, and I never said it was horrible. This is the time to offer feedback. Any feedback is valid if coming from a place of good faith.

The beta notes suggested skill gain would be fast. I did not find this to be the case relative to production shards.

Thanks for the tip on locking your skills to target gains. Since the design of NL is taking a heavy-handed approach, perhaps there should be an in-game tip in this regard. Or, perhaps it should not work this way and the opportunity for gains should be equally distributed among the skills you put to use during combat, such that I can gain in anatomy, healing, etc. at the same time. The second sounds better.

Pawain

McDougle said:

Can someone attack your field? 

No you can't do anything to another players plot.

The farming idea seems good to have a way to get more regs into the game.  Being the cheapskate that I am, knowing every spell you cast is 20 or 30 gold makes me not cast as frequently as I do normally. 

Also you can grow cotton or flax for cloth.

Yes @Kalsey was very frustrated.   Luckily they spoke up and had patience so others could help.

There are so many different mechanics in NL.  Every player is going to get lost or frustrated at some point.  So use general chat for help, encouragement,  or whatever. 

Pawain

The buff bar shows that stamina protection buff but it has the same symbol as Protection spell.

So when you have protection on it only shows one shield, when you log off the shield says the stamina protection thing even tho protection is still on.

Pic is when I cast protection, top
When I log off and on, which I have to do constantly because my pets wont follow me. Bottom.

The buff bar does not show that protection is still on.

Pawain

Can not reach the corpse of the Tasty Sea Serpent sometimes.

May not matter since the reward goes into your backpack,  But I had to die while posting to get it.

Lord_Frodo

Skill gains should be BOTH ways NOT an either or.  If I am doing  Blacksmith BODs Quests and I need to mine ingots then I should get gains from mining and from making the items for the BODs along with the gains from turning in those BODs

loop

Played very briefly on the divergent path as a mage. Still found skill gain to be quite strange. There's a lack of dopamine response it. I know I'm activating various skills by performing actions, but it seems like only one skill may gain one point at any time. In a weird way, it's more random than production shards and certainly less satisfying (and I'm not saying the normal system is that good). It's a bit like if you were grinding mobs in EverQuest and only sometimes you would get experience points.

This is all my immediate impression at getting into town and killing a few things when I would expect skill gain to be quite quick.

McDougle

Why would focus not gain through normal fighting ? Took divergent path a macer fighting orcs near boats all skills pointing up

loop

McDougle said:

Why would focus not gain through normal fighting ? Took divergent path a macer fighting orcs near boats all skills pointing up

You have to unlock the skills that do not fit your archetype. You do not have access to focus as a warrior, I don’t think?

It’s another off putting situation for veterans who prefer the more traditional system. Like, as a warrior, it frustrated me that being hit by spells did not increase my magic resist. I know it’s a skill. I know its usefulness. But I have to unlock it?