Why should I pay for your mistakes?

SaulGoodman1

I mean this could be a never ending thread tbh but the two issues i have currently are;

1) I named some of my characters the same name so when i login to each one it screws up the others macros, I called a GM who said "buy a name change". Umm, no, You are the ones that screwed this up, You fix it!

c) I tame pets, I added chiv to a trained pet, kept training then added discord, and it stopped the cu from gaining, I asked in chat and ppl where all like "oh well you cant do that", well yeah I can BECAUSE IT LETS ME! if its not possible to have a cu with two skills don't allow ppl to waste time, effort and gold fucking up a pet that took months to train!

keven2002

For your first issue I think there is a fix you can make yourself to either the name or location of the macro file. I can't remember exactly what it was but I do think I remember someone mentioning that when I brought up this same issue (I had the same issue like 20 years ago - the GM actually DID rename my char back then).

Second issue I'd check uo-cah when training pets; they have a pretty extensive guide there.

Yoshi

“As for the issue with the game giving you the ability to add 2 magics, a video was made about this problem years ago.
I agree 
But I think people like pawain said no it’s user error..
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/7135/three-simplifications-for-animal-training#latest

I am not certain what Pawain’s problem is with solution proposed. Ask pawain to provide you with new scrolls for free.

The first issue is also valid, the game should really call the folders different ID names, if GM doesn’t correct your issue let me know And I’ll supply you with name change token”

Pawain

You think you are the first player in 5 years of the taming revamp to want a pet with Chiv and Discord? Then never wondered why you never saw one?

Yes Mervyn I disagree with your idea to ruin animal training by pets coming with set slots and abilities when tamed.

By adding poison you can put poison abilities on a pet then remove poison by adding another magic.I

Ya most games require learing. I doubt anyone can walk up to a craps table and understand what is happing. Shoots and ladders has rules.

And when you apply something to a pet you get a pop-up saying it can not be undone.

@SaulGoodman1 you said you were leaving. That would make your wish true by 1.

Yoshi

Pawain said:

By adding poison you can put poison abilities on a pet then remove poison by adding another magic.I

"I understand that this is one reason that adds a functionality to that ability. I'm not sure there is another.

But I could just aswell argue that this is a bug. And that removing poisoning should also remove the poison related ability.

Also, If you train a Ossein ram, it comes with Necromancy, if you choose a different magic school for it, i *think it refunds you the points that it had for Necromancy.

So this is a complication that trips up normal players like Saul, i'm sure there are many like him.

Game should not be so hostile towards innocent player"

Pawain

Yoshi said:

Pawain said:

By adding poison you can put poison abilities on a pet then remove poison by adding another magic.I

"I understand that this is one reason that adds a functionality to that ability. I'm not sure there is another.

But I could just aswell argue that this is a bug. And that removing poisoning should also remove the poison related ability.

Also, If you train a Ossein ram, it comes with Necromancy, if you choose a different magic school for it, i *think it refunds you the points that it had for Necromancy.

So this is a complication that trips up normal players like Saul, i'm sure there are many like him.

Game should not be so hostile towards innocent player"

You can read about taming in these links, it says how many of what abilities and magics a pet can have, And you think everything is a bug, so that is not news.

No a Ram does not come with necromancy, it like many pets have a placeholder for some skills, but unless the Lore screens say Necromancy as an ability, it does not have it, Pets that can get necromancy have that place holder.  You have to pay to get Necromancy if the pet does not have it on the Lore and Knowledge screen.

You do not get points refunded for anything.

https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/animal-taming/
https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/animal-taming/animal-training/
https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/animal-taming/animal-training-abilities/

Dont push the blue button until you know what you are doing, and when TC is available you can build pets there, there are gates to advance the training to 100%.

Unless you are trying to build a pet that no longer spawns or a statue pet you can go tame one on Test Center anytime, so just because copy does not work, you can still go try to make the build you want.

Yoshi

"basically, if many people make mistakes, there is an issue with the UI,

should not really have to read up so much

it is especially disheartening when you hear people making the same costly mistakes over time,

"

Pawain

I prefer a complicated game with more options to achieve a goal. 

Grimbeard

Pawain said:

I prefer a complicated game with more options to achieve a goal. 

And yes you can play however you choose but why must you attack anyone who wants something different? 

Pawain

Grimbeard said:

Pawain said:

I prefer a complicated game with more options to achieve a goal. 

And yes you can play however you choose but why must you attack anyone who wants something different? 

And you must reply to every post I make with no content?

I said why I do not like the idea for pets to spawn with set abilities and set slots. I also like the ability to put a Magic on for an ability and then remove that magic in favor of another. We would not have FWW and chiv together or Feint and Chiv. 

I can't play the way I choose if the easy button people take choices away from me in favor of their easy button way.

Before you reply to me, read and heed my signature. And put some thought into what you say.

All that matters is the Devs decided to allow us to imbue pets and not use the reforge method where we get random things. And it has worked great for 5+ years. 

Just like imbuing, you put a slayer on and add another, the original slayer is gone.

Yoshi

Pawain said:

All that matters is the Devs decided to allow us to imbue pets and not use the reforge method where we get random things. And it has worked great for 5+ years. 

Just like imbuing, you put a slayer on and add another, the original slayer is gone.

"but it hasn't worked, this is not the first person who has made a mistake on their pet and had to scrap the pet and lose the work and scrolls.

And with imbuing when you put a new slayer on, you don't lose imbue points"

CovenantX

The control slot thing was the dumbest part of the pet-revamp, but i guess i could also profit from it because I do have tamers on pretty much every shard with Pre-patched pets, some of which are worth far more than you can get from a currently spawning pet. -others that have become worthless. like old cu's & lesser hiryus as an example of the PP pets that became less effective.

as far as pets spawning with set-skills, would only be to save training points when you add that 'set-skill' like, the rams, how they have necromancy, they don't use it until you add necromancy to the ram, but it'll cost less training points for you to 'activate' necromancy, as opposed to adding something the pet doesn't inherently have already, which would buff some pets, especially if there were inherent skills added to pets that current don;t have them.

The pet training menu is fine for me, but I can see why someone that isn't used to it already would make mistakes that cause their pets to become far less effective, and potentially waste time & items (powerscrolls) just to go through the process again.  

 I don't think anyone in their right mind would be opposed to making most things more user friendly & have more descriptive tool-tips in-game without having to search through a website for basic information.

Pawain

Did you read the instructions on the taming revamp?

Why are you putting scrolls on before the pet build is complete

Well yall should head to the best taming forum on the internet. Seems yall have much to learn.

https://community.stratics.com/forums/uo-tamer.419/

Or play single Yahtzee online. 

Yoshi

CovenantX said:

 I don't think anyone in their right mind would be opposed to making most things more user friendly & have more descriptive tool-tips in-game without having to search through a website for basic information.

"no, Pawain thinks you need to visit a load of websited first before doing anything and if they don't it's their fault...."

Victim_Of_Siege

Yoshi said:

Pawain said:

All that matters is the Devs decided to allow us to imbue pets and not use the reforge method where we get random things. And it has worked great for 5+ years. 

Just like imbuing, you put a slayer on and add another, the original slayer is gone.

 . . .And with imbuing when you put a new slayer on, you don't lose imbue points"

But there are limited times that you can change it, and it doesn't make it a double slayer. seems about the same as changing the magic on a pet. the only disconnect here is that the magic you replace doesn't disappear. Maybe they should just make the one replaced go to 0? @Kyronix

CovenantX

That and the amount of time lost, when you imbue an item with something you didn't want, vs adding skills/stats on a pet you didn't want, though the systems aren't that different, the costs are much greater for pet training mistakes, 

Pet mistakes cost far more, in both time & gold.  and potentially $ (officially -pet bonding potion).

Yoshi

Victim_Of_Siege said:

But there are limited times that you can change it, and it doesn't make it a double slayer. seems about the same as changing the magic on a pet. the only disconnect here is that the magic you replace doesn't disappear. Maybe they should just make the one replaced go to 0? @ Kyronix

“Hmm, it doesn’t replace it, but you know you can’t use the original magic right? 

So it’s like imbuing reptile slayer on a weap and then being able to also imbue undead slayer on a weap except the reptile wouldn’t then work and would still be 300 imbue points used.

People kept having a problem, video was made to show the mistake that was being made and how people were being fooled by the UI.
and today people still being fooled by the UI..”

Pawain

So players should learn how to do things? Is that bad?

If a player that knows the basics of UO wants to do other things how would they know what these other things are? Are we born with the knowledge of where the different quests are for entering a peerless? 

I would bet 50% of UO does not know how to enter each peerless. How in the world will they learn? Another player takes them or they read how to do it on the internet.

I'm sorry, complicated games need instructions.

I put off starting UO so I could read the guide. Back then gamers read guides before playing games. We had PC Gamer and Computer Gaming World. Plus guide books for the complicated games.

Now it's too much to expect a player to type "UO topic" in Google?

CovenantX

Pawain said:

So players should learn how to do things? Is that bad?

If a player that knows the basics of UO wants to do other things how would they know what these other things are? Are we born with the knowledge of where the different quests are for entering a peerless? 

I would bet 50% of UO does not know how to enter each peerless. How in the world will they learn? Another player takes them or they read how to do it on the internet.

I'm sorry, complicated games need instructions.

I put off starting UO so I could read the guide. Back then gamers read guides before playing games. We had PC Gamer and Computer Gaming World. Plus guide books for the complicated games.

Now it's too much to expect a player to type "UO topic" in Google?

   You don't seem to be capable of understanding what's being discussed here.

  I find it interesting that you state things supporting the argument you're against.  It's just insane.

 

 RE-QUOTE!

Pawain said:
I would bet 50% of UO does not know how to enter each peerless. How in the world will they learn? Another player takes them or they read how to do it on the internet.

   I wouldn't be surprised if this is accurate, nor would I expect anyone to be (if they read some of the things on these forums)..  this supports making things more accessible (in terms of IN-GAME information), yet, you continue to argue with yourself And others.  

Might I ask for some of what you're smoking?

 

Pawain

CovenantX said:

Pawain said:

So players should learn how to do things? Is that bad?

If a player that knows the basics of UO wants to do other things how would they know what these other things are? Are we born with the knowledge of where the different quests are for entering a peerless? 

I would bet 50% of UO does not know how to enter each peerless. How in the world will they learn? Another player takes them or they read how to do it on the internet.

I'm sorry, complicated games need instructions.

I put off starting UO so I could read the guide. Back then gamers read guides before playing games. We had PC Gamer and Computer Gaming World. Plus guide books for the complicated games.

Now it's too much to expect a player to type "UO topic" in Google?

   You don't seem to be capable of understanding what's being discussed here.

  I find it interesting that you state things supporting the argument you're against.  It's just insane.

 

 RE-QUOTE!

Pawain said:
I would bet 50% of UO does not know how to enter each peerless. How in the world will they learn? Another player takes them or they read how to do it on the internet.

   I wouldn't be surprised if this is accurate, nor would I expect anyone to be (if they read some of the things on these forums)..  this supports making things more accessible (in terms of IN-GAME information), yet, you continue to argue with yourself And others.  

Might I ask for some of what you're smoking?

 

So how many text boxes would UO have to explain every detail. That's why UO Guide and others were made.

UO is not the standard game that has a beginning and end.

How many instruction boxes and icons do we need because players are too spoiled to research.
 

Pawain

Kinda funny yall are the same posters who are saying Powerscrolls should stay in fel and others need to stop being lazy and learn to PvP.  Where is the PvP instruction gump in UO?

This Cossack quote fits this topic well.
 I wouldn't think it much of a stretch to guess that most of them don't actually do ANY of the content in this game & don't actually know what goes on.  They just complain on the forums about how unfair everything is.

CovenantX

Pawain said:

So how many text boxes would UO have to explain every detail. That's why UO Guide and others were made.

UO is not the standard game that has a beginning and end.

How many instruction boxes and icons do we need because players are too spoiled to research.
 

How many text boxes?  The same one that appears when you highlight any items in-game now.... 

a basic description could be added to anything.   I have items in my house you highlight and a wall of text appears, with magic properties, you can't get items with 15+ properties anymore... 

There's plenty of room for basic information that could fit in a box the fraction of the size within the highlighted item's tool-tip that exists, 

UO has already done these improvements btw..  Pre-AoS to AoS, magic properties were vague.

Damage increase for example Pre-AoS was just these words.  Ruin, Might, Force, Power, Vanquishing, were 'damage increase', replaced with what we have now 1-100% damage increase, (even though the old damage was in base damage points +1-+9 respectively)  you can see that within the game now, (though it's also different in functionality from what it was).  +2 from exceptional bonus (for those of you who wondered why Crafted weapons > Looted Weapons back then)

They did it with the Mannequins character sheet several years ago. (though I would argue, you shouldn't need a mannequin to get that information, but it's better than not having it in-game)    

There's simply so much more information that could show up in-game to make things easier on people that don't already know.  -it won't hurt or help me, unless I decide to do something ingame that I don't do now... like idk... fishing or growing plants.

  How many websites, did you open to get information regarding UO?   I've looked things up plenty of times over the course of the last 26 years, I'm sure there are plenty of things I still don't know, I've also tested many things, which is why I know that some information out there is wrong.

but the objective is to reduce the amount of times someone needs to "leave the game' to find information that should be found within the game.    

The learning curve, cheating/lack of rule enforcement & Bugs/inconsistencies are not welcoming to newer players, UO isn't going to get newer players to stick around if it's not going to change.

CovenantX

Pawain said:

Kinda yall are the same posters who are saying Powerscrolls should stay in fel and others need to stop being lazy and learn to PvP.  Where is the PvP instruction gump in UO?

This Cossack quote fits this topic well.
 I wouldn't think it much of a stretch to guess that most of them don't actually do ANY of the content in this game & don't actually know what goes on.  They just complain on the forums about how unfair everything is.

   Reading instructions can only take you so far... regardless if it's in-game or on websites.

 

  That's where the real "learning pvp" kicks in, funny how that works isn't it?... you should try it some time.

Pawain

CovenantX said:

Pawain said:

Kinda yall are the same posters who are saying Powerscrolls should stay in fel and others need to stop being lazy and learn to PvP.  Where is the PvP instruction gump in UO?

This Cossack quote fits this topic well.
 I wouldn't think it much of a stretch to guess that most of them don't actually do ANY of the content in this game & don't actually know what goes on.  They just complain on the forums about how unfair everything is.

   Reading instructions can only take you so far... regardless if it's in-game or on websites.

 

  That's where the real "learning pvp" kicks in, funny how that works isn't it?... you should try it some time.

Trying to dis me and you repeat my opinion about reading up on a topic and learning before doing. I guess I passed the the smoke to you, it makes you see clearly.

There are many abilities a pet can get, which are best?
Use a disposable pet like a Cu or hiryu. Don't put scrolls on until you understand what you are doing. 

Just like learning to train a pet or PvP.

Practice before you spend gold.


There is a quest for taming and training that guides you through the beginning steps. There are warning gumps when you add things. 

There is no PvP quest or in game help. But they are supposed to learn...

At least we have the best Taming Forum on the internet. 

CovenantX

Pawain said:

Trying to dis me and you repeat my opinion about reading up on a topic and learning before doing. I guess I passed the the smoke to you, it makes you see clearly.

There are many abilities a pet can get, which are best?
Use a disposable pet like a Cu or hiryu. Don't put scrolls on until you understand what you are doing. 

Just like learning to train a pet or PvP.

Practice before you spend gold.


There is a quest for taming and training that guides you through the beginning steps. There are warning gumps when you add things. 

There is no PvP quest or in game help. But they are supposed to learn...

At least we have the best Taming Forum on the internet. 

    Pointing out the flaws isn't exactly repeating your opinion.

 "Use a disposable pet like a Cu or hiryu. Don't put scrolls on until you understand what you are doing. "  - something people who are already well established in UO have done.... back when the revamp came out. 

That's a shit ton of time you expect people to spend for information that could be in the game....

   It's really not like learning pvp, (very lol-able, of you to say so though) because reading doesn't teach you timing & awareness.  but you probably knew that or uh... nah, you didn't.

  .Edit!  - I'm not saying the forum is bad, it's mostly a good reference, just that much of the information one gets from those forums should be in-game.    like, the exact description of each pet ability, a list of the spells available under each spell-school for pets.

 Same goes for Buff/debuff icons, some things don't have them, they should.

 crafting resource items would be pretty cryptic to people who aren't familiar.

 

  Inconsistencies like the inability to PoF some clean items..  the list goes on and on.

  

  

Pawain

I'm just comparing the way yall are saying players are should just stop whining and go do spawns. And you agree that the PvP part not only requires knowledge but requires skill. My sloth like reflexes will not allow me to be very good at it. And I never liked fighting other players in any game.

I will play games like Wingspan and Dominion against real people.

The main point is, use test center, the taming forum, rules of training, and other players to help you learn pet training. A stupid gump is not the answer. 

Similar to how yall would learn PvP if it was new to you.

CovenantX

Just to add too it... It also doesn't help that Character copy to TC1 is often down... so you can't rely on that to be there if you need it for anything.

the TC1 "Give" commands haven't been updated since masteries came out, what do they expect you to spend hours there grinding for specific gear you can't just get for testing purposes?

 none of that is user friendly.   It's tedious as hell, and half (actually a lot more than half) of the bugs reported are "In the System" to get fixed for decades.

Pawain

Yes I agree that right now, test center should be back. 

All shards have the same publish.  There is another event coming but I don't know that is the cause of it still being not being available for copy.

Keeping access to TC copy should be a priority when the publish allows it.

Also besides what you mentioned. We should have access to the UO store items and vet rewards on TC at all times. 

drcossack

Pawain said:

I'm just comparing the way yall are saying players are should just stop whining and go do spawns. And you agree that the PvP part not only requires knowledge but requires skill. My sloth like reflexes will not allow me to be very good at it. And I never liked fighting other players in any game.

I will play games like Wingspan and Dominion against real people.

The main point is, use test center, the taming forum, rules of training, and other players to help you learn pet training. A stupid gump is not the answer. 

Similar to how yall would learn PvP if it was new to you.

But that's the thing.  pvp is pvp, regardless of where it is.  If you don't know what you're doing, you're going to get steamrolled.  But that's why (if you're able), you LEARN how to defend yourself.  But that, in turn, raises an issue: If a player doesn't do specific content, why are they commenting on it?  Their words carry no weight and come across as whining.  It'd be the same thing as me commenting on crafting (beyond something general like it needing an overhaul, because it's in dire need of one.  Crafted gear shouldn't be on the same level of power as loot from monsters, but the gap between the two is huge) or gardening.

As far as Test Center: Yeah, you can see what works with pet builds, but it only takes you so far, especially if you want to look at the effects of scrolling out a pet (which, now that I think about it, is another thing that should be on TC: if you use scrolls on a pet, you should have a gate or w/e that just caps out whatever scrolls you've given to it.)  At this point, there's no reason why a server designed to, y'know, TEST THINGS doesn't give you access to literally everything in the game: old event items (like the Shattered Obelisk spellbooks, for those who didn't do either run of the event), the rewards from seasonal dungeon events, and powerscrolls.

UO, as we all know, is NOT user friendly, and it's absolutely HORRIBLE for a new/returning player.  A product of its era, perhaps?  Don't know.  But I look at some of the other games I've played in recent years.  Final Fantasy 14, as an example.  It has the Hall of the Novice, where it teaches you the basics of the 3 roles (tank, healer, DPS.)  After that, it's all practice.  Gear in FF14 is self-explanatory: as you level up and can equip stronger weapons/armor, your stats go up (MP notwithstanding, that's hard-capped at 10k.)  Both your combat and non-combat (crafting/gathering) skills are given good explanations if you go into the menu.  There are sites you can use to reference various things, but if you're just a casual player and don't want to min/max, you don't need to go to any of them.

If I want to make anything in UO, I have to do the following: look to see what I want to make (let's say elemental damage weapons), gather the materials and crafting tools, then go into a poorly explained menu that gives me a ton of options that, on the surface, make absolutely no sense.  Which means I have to spend MORE time looking things up on a wiki.  Then, once that's all said and done, comes the imbuing process.  Which involves me getting MORE crafting materials (and looking at a wiki again to see the specific mats I need to use) and (if I want to get everything right) yet ANOTHER player-run site to calculate how I want to distribute the properties I'm looking to add + their intensity.  Admittedly, I tend to be lazy in regards to things like that as is, but that would be a HUGE roadblock if I were actually looking to craft my own gear (which is why I've only ever done it once, on Test Center - when the devs first added Fey Slayer to the list of properties you can imbue on weapons.)

Victim_Of_Siege

Yoshi said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

But there are limited times that you can change it, and it doesn't make it a double slayer. seems about the same as changing the magic on a pet. the only disconnect here is that the magic you replace doesn't disappear. Maybe they should just make the one replaced go to 0? @ Kyronix

“Hmm, it doesn’t replace it, but you know you can’t use the original magic right? 

So it’s like imbuing reptile slayer on a weap and then being able to also imbue undead slayer on a weap except the reptile wouldn’t then work and would still be 300 imbue points used.

People kept having a problem, video was made to show the mistake that was being made and how people were being fooled by the UI.
and today people still being fooled by the UI..”

Of course I know. I have played this game over 2 decades and am constantly trying to learn its nuances. 

Rocko

CovenantX said:

The learning curve, cheating/lack of rule enforcement & Bugs/inconsistencies are not welcoming to newer players, UO isn't going to get newer players to stick around if it's not going to change.

Preach.

I was struggling to find info and my search pulled up an old article that included Todd McFarlane.  The article stated that UO had 225,000 subscribers.  

How many are there now?  The point is that the game is not immediately inviting to new players in terms of information on bugs or what you can and cannot do.  There is a huge learning curve: best to focus on a few things and then increase knowledge as one's gameplay expands.