Paragon's retargeting.... what am I doing wrong ?

JackFlashUk

popps said:

JackFlashUk said:

Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this

I am talking about Summons, not pets....

so you are using a tamer with no pet? and using summons?  I have heard it all now.......

WHY are you fighting Para with summons? 

I just cant help you, you are too far gone. If it's not thieves in para dungeons it's now this, do you go out of your way to NOT do what everyone else is doing?

Or are you speaking for others again?

Archangel

JackFlashUk said:

popps said:

JackFlashUk said:

Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this

I am talking about Summons, not pets....

so you are using a tamer with no pet? and using summons?  I have heard it all now.......

WHY are you fighting Para with summons? 

I just cant help you, you are too far gone. If it's not thieves in para dungeons it's now this, do you go out of your way to NOT do what everyone else is doing?

Or are you speaking for others again?

When did he say he was a tamer, huh?

Pawain

Is this his mage with no Eval?

Arnold7

Popps could use some clarification here.  In most of your other discussions regarding this issue you are a tamer.  Assumed same was true here.  Sorry see you did that earlier.

Seth

Arnold7 said:

Also agree about the RC.  You can’t control like you do a pet.  It just kills everything in the area starting with the bad guys first and it is not nearly as powerful as some of the pets.  Four slots would be more realistic considering it is more powerful than an RC.

Me think RC should be 3 slots. So a mystic mage who has another 240 skills in mystism and focus, can cast 1 RC and 1 EV. RC is slow but EV moves faster.

The pure mage can cast 2 x EV and yet mystic mage can only do 1 slow RC.

If we choose to take up 240 skills with Mysticism, we should be able to do 1 EV and 1 RC.

JackFlashUk

Archangel said:

JackFlashUk said:

popps said:

JackFlashUk said:

Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this

I am talking about Summons, not pets....

so you are using a tamer with no pet? and using summons?  I have heard it all now.......

WHY are you fighting Para with summons? 

I just cant help you, you are too far gone. If it's not thieves in para dungeons it's now this, do you go out of your way to NOT do what everyone else is doing?

Or are you speaking for others again?

When did he say he was a tamer, huh?

He jumps from tamers to casters to suit his debate. He is the peoples champion after all. He talks pets then summons then gargs to elves just to add confusion to his arguments 

popps

Arnold7 said:

Popps could use some clarification here.  In most of your other discussions regarding this issue you are a tamer.  Assumed same was true here.  Sorry see you did that earlier.

Using a spellcaster with, all 120 Spellweaving, Necromancy, Spirit Speak, Meditation, Mageryand Resisting Spells.

The Summon that I am talking about is a Reaper, not a Colossus because I do not have Mysticism.
Since Mysticism asks for Focus, while Spellweaving is standalone but relies heavily on Arcane Circle and, thus, requires having the Spellweaving Mastery for a 6 Circle and better strength spellweaving spells, I can save up 120 skill points not needing the Focus skill this way... of course, I have the downside that the Reaper is a static Summon whereas the RC can move and this creates lots of issues when Monsters do not stick with the Summon but retarget on player's characters... the Reaper cannot follow them around as a RC can do.......

keven2002

This might be the wrong thread but this explains why your drops are so low. Summoning a reaper to kill stuff as a non-garg is probably the worst strategy there is if your goal is to maximize drops. You will be on foot most of the time and your summons are static. This wasn't a bad template to use during the first week of the event but it's no longer relevant.

You could also probably drop meditation for eval given you have Necro/SS AND you are usually going to be on foot anyway (wraith form gives you mana from damage).

McDougle

Weaving totally not good for this event and he plays on cats so no need to run the mastery as getting a focus easy 

Yoshi

“ @popps this is a long shot but I think you use EC, there is a setting in the options that makes your character always run, please ensure this is not enabled so you can walk and not run”

Arnold7

Maybe try your template with eval intel ring and bracelet with 20 eval intel on each and a wizards curio talisman with 10 eval intel  and a spellbook having around 10 eval intel and see how it plays.  Know this would screw up your suit but just saying you give it a try to see how your template works with eval intel.  Think in wrath form using the death ray your template could do a tremendous amount of damage.

if you like the way it plays, maybe stone of resist spells or meditation and add eval intel.  Enchanted apples could help a lot if you stone off resist spells.  Maybe wraith form could compensate for meditation.  But would think with 120 eval intel your template could do a lot more damage than you are doing now.

popps

Arnold7 said:

Maybe try your template with eval intel ring and bracelet with 20 eval intel on each and a wizards curio talisman with 10 eval intel  and a spellbook having around 10 eval intel and see how it plays.  Know this would screw up your suit but just saying you give it a try to see how your template works with eval intel.  Think in wrath form using the death ray your template could do a tremendous amount of damage.

if you like the way it plays, maybe stone of resist spells or meditation and add eval intel.  Enchanted apples could help a lot if you stone off resist spells.  Maybe wraith form could compensate for meditation.  But would think with 120 eval intel your template could do a lot more damage than you are doing now.

The thing is, that I was naive enough to think, that the Developers, since suits built around Luck are clearly less capable of fighting, since the template has less skills, less properties and lower properties which matter in order to try increase worn Luck, would have Designed the related mechanics in a BALANCED OUT way....

That is, that even if a character in a Luck suit was to kill lower fame Monsters and at a slower pace, the INCREASED chances at a drop would have compensated this much reduced fighting capability with raising the chances at a drop even when fighting smaller Monsters and at a slower pace...

Unfortunately, it looks to me, that this is not the case.... that is, that while Luck might help, it does it only MARGINALLY, the code STILL requires to kill hard stuff and at a fast pace...

Which it makes no sense to me, since, as we know, building a suit around Luck severely limits the fighting capability of a template.

@Kyronix , perhaps it is necessary to give a good look at how Luck works, and make it so that higher Luck will increasingly be raising chances at a drop even when only fighting lower fame monsters and at a much slower pace as compared to those who wearno Luck or only little Luck on their suits but are more fighting capable ?

Pawain

  

Seth

Besides the eggs and dungeon, they can add casinos at the entrance... anyone tired of eggs and robes can try their luck at Baccarat (edit: with luck suit on)

McDougle

Stop bashing luck suits popps all mine are all 70s with 100 lrc 40 lmc with plenty of other mods for casters or studded 55lmc for archer or plate with tons of extra stamina for macer ....all above 2200 luck without statue 

PlayerSkillFTW

Seth said:

Arnold7 said:

Also agree about the RC.  You can’t control like you do a pet.  It just kills everything in the area starting with the bad guys first and it is not nearly as powerful as some of the pets.  Four slots would be more realistic considering it is more powerful than an RC.

Me think RC should be 3 slots. So a mystic mage who has another 240 skills in mystism and focus, can cast 1 RC and 1 EV. RC is slow but EV moves faster.

The pure mage can cast 2 x EV and yet mystic mage can only do 1 slow RC.

If we choose to take up 240 skills with Mysticism, we should be able to do 1 EV and 1 RC.

The EV is also a hell of a lot weaker than the RC.

Here's a comparison of the lore window between a maxed out EV, and a maxed out RC.

The RC has higher Base Damage (hits harder), 580 more STR (hits harder), has 20 more Tactics (hits harder), has 120 more Anatomy (hits harder), has AI (so his attacks can actually bypass Resists to deal the full damage of his 780 STR/120 Tact/120 Anat hits), and he has Mysticism spells on top of that, with full 120 Mysticism/Focus. He also has over 3x the HP of an EV. The RC is the King of the Summons for good reason. A single RC can out damage and out tank 2 EVs.

Yoshi said:

“ @ popps this is a long shot but I think you use EC, there is a setting in the options that makes your character always run, please ensure this is not enabled so you can walk and not run”

Yep. I can't believe that so many people STILL haven't figured this out yet 18 years after Paragons were first introduced. Fast movement (running) catches their attention and causes them to re-target. They're like the T-Rex from Jurassic Park.

That's like me standing perfectly still as my pet tanks the Paragon, then some doofus comes running up/past, i'm like "hold still, he aggros on movement", then the person screams "LEROY JENKINS!" while running full speed, and gets pwned in 2 seconds by the Paragon. Sucks even more when the person gets away and i'm now having to chase the damn Paragon with my pet and an invis ready for when it switches to me.

Arnold7

To be honest standing around does not work for me.  If I stand still while a para is chasing another player, yes it usually works but I don’t get any points that way.  As soon as I jump in close enough to cast or actually cast a spell the paragon esp. the paragon shadow wyrm, is all over me.  What do you expect me to do?  I have all ready lost 20 to 60 points and the para is out for more.  Now it does not always happen that way.  Sometimes the para does not target me and I get to help kill it.  If I were a tamer maybe standing still might work but I am not a tamer.  It does work if I cast ev’s and keep my distance but they don’t do much damage.  If a para locks on them I can sometimes do substacial damage if the EV lasts for awhile.  Anyway, if you know of a killing technique that standing still works with I would be happy to try it out as a necro mage with spellweaving.

popps

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Seth said:

Arnold7 said:

Also agree about the RC.  You can’t control like you do a pet.  It just kills everything in the area starting with the bad guys first and it is not nearly as powerful as some of the pets.  Four slots would be more realistic considering it is more powerful than an RC.

Me think RC should be 3 slots. So a mystic mage who has another 240 skills in mystism and focus, can cast 1 RC and 1 EV. RC is slow but EV moves faster.

The pure mage can cast 2 x EV and yet mystic mage can only do 1 slow RC.

If we choose to take up 240 skills with Mysticism, we should be able to do 1 EV and 1 RC.

The EV is also a hell of a lot weaker than the RC.

Here's a comparison of the lore window between a maxed out EV, and a maxed out RC.

The RC has higher Base Damage (hits harder), 580 more STR (hits harder), has 20 more Tactics (hits harder), has 120 more Anatomy (hits harder), has AI (so his attacks can actually bypass Resists to deal the full damage of his 780 STR/120 Tact/120 Anat hits), and he has Mysticism spells on top of that, with full 120 Mysticism/Focus. He also has over 3x the HP of an EV. The RC is the King of the Summons for good reason. A single RC can out damage and out tank 2 EVs.

Yoshi said:

“ @ popps this is a long shot but I think you use EC, there is a setting in the options that makes your character always run, please ensure this is not enabled so you can walk and not run”

Yep. I can't believe that so many people STILL haven't figured this out yet 18 years after Paragons were first introduced. Fast movement (running) catches their attention and causes them to re-target. They're like the T-Rex from Jurassic Park.

That's like me standing perfectly still as my pet tanks the Paragon, then some doofus comes running up/past, i'm like "hold still, he aggros on movement", then the person screams "LEROY JENKINS!" while running full speed, and gets pwned in 2 seconds by the Paragon. Sucks even more when the person gets away and i'm now having to chase the damn Paragon with my pet and an invis ready for when it switches to me.

@PlayerSkillFTW ;

You talk about a comparison between a "maxed out " EV and a "maxed out " RC.

What do you mean by "maxed out" ?

They do not spawn with always the same stats ?

It is random what stats they get or does it depend on something to spawn with "maxed out" stats ?

Thanks.

popps

Yoshi said:

“ @ popps this is a long shot but I think you use EC, there is a setting in the options that makes your character always run, please ensure this is not enabled so you can walk and not run”

Thanks Yoshi for the tip... I already have it unchecked and, actually, I hardly run because, costing summons 5 slots, I am always on foot and running against a Paragon is really a futile excercise....

Instead, I cast continuously invisibility on myself, sometimes I walk (not run) 1 or 2 tiles further away from the Paragon before recasting invisibility on myself.... sometimes the Paragon retargets onto the Summon, most times, though, as soon as I get revealed again (because of the Paragon), the Paragon retargets on me rather then on my Summon and this, even though I am fartheraway from the Paragon as compared to my Summon...

I suspect, that the cause of this is a problem in the code....

That is, that there is a "timer" for a Monster before it "drops aggro" on a target and aggros something else with running being an exception for Paragons whereas, running while in range, immediately attracts their attention....

Basically, what I suspect happens is that the Paragon's revealing ability is too instant and does not permit for their aggro on my character to drop since that aggro drop timer is not met... therefore, regardless my casting invisibiity on myself, since the Paragon reveals me right away, the aggro resumes as if it had not been broken... and, thus, the Paragon hardly aggros on my summon, rather then on me.

The way that it should work, instead, should be, to my opinion, that casting invisibility should break immediately the Monster's aggro and then, that the Paragon's reveal should not be instantaneous but, instead, there should be like 10-15 seconds during which the revealing ability of Paragon's does not work on the character that just cast invisibility on themselves so that the Paragon would have the time for the aggro to switch onto another target in range.... for example the Summon...

Of course, as it is now, running around a Paragon would not have this 10-15 seconda delay but would occur right away, no delay needed. The delay, would only be for characters that get invised.

What do you think, @Kyronix , do you want to check whether this that I describe might be the problem and make adjustments to it so as to make the game more playable ?
Thanks !

Arnold7

I play a mage and use ev’s a lot.  If I am going to kill something with one, for example a minitor general, I stand about 15 squares away an cast the summons as far away from me as possible.  The summons usually has no trouble finding the target.  Give that a try.  With paras I would reccomend backing up some after casting your summons.  It works with ev’s in Destard but they don’t do much damage.

PlayerSkillFTW

popps said:

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Seth said:

Arnold7 said:

Also agree about the RC.  You can’t control like you do a pet.  It just kills everything in the area starting with the bad guys first and it is not nearly as powerful as some of the pets.  Four slots would be more realistic considering it is more powerful than an RC.

Me think RC should be 3 slots. So a mystic mage who has another 240 skills in mystism and focus, can cast 1 RC and 1 EV. RC is slow but EV moves faster.

The pure mage can cast 2 x EV and yet mystic mage can only do 1 slow RC.

If we choose to take up 240 skills with Mysticism, we should be able to do 1 EV and 1 RC.

The EV is also a hell of a lot weaker than the RC.

Here's a comparison of the lore window between a maxed out EV, and a maxed out RC.

The RC has higher Base Damage (hits harder), 580 more STR (hits harder), has 20 more Tactics (hits harder), has 120 more Anatomy (hits harder), has AI (so his attacks can actually bypass Resists to deal the full damage of his 780 STR/120 Tact/120 Anat hits), and he has Mysticism spells on top of that, with full 120 Mysticism/Focus. He also has over 3x the HP of an EV. The RC is the King of the Summons for good reason. A single RC can out damage and out tank 2 EVs.

Yoshi said:

“ @ popps this is a long shot but I think you use EC, there is a setting in the options that makes your character always run, please ensure this is not enabled so you can walk and not run”

Yep. I can't believe that so many people STILL haven't figured this out yet 18 years after Paragons were first introduced. Fast movement (running) catches their attention and causes them to re-target. They're like the T-Rex from Jurassic Park.

That's like me standing perfectly still as my pet tanks the Paragon, then some doofus comes running up/past, i'm like "hold still, he aggros on movement", then the person screams "LEROY JENKINS!" while running full speed, and gets pwned in 2 seconds by the Paragon. Sucks even more when the person gets away and i'm now having to chase the damn Paragon with my pet and an invis ready for when it switches to me.

@ PlayerSkillFTW 

You talk about a comparison between a "maxed out " EV and a "maxed out " RC.

What do you mean by "maxed out" ?

They do not spawn with always the same stats ?

It is random what stats they get or does it depend on something to spawn with "maxed out" stats ?

Thanks.

EVs don't scale with the summoner's Magery/Eval skills (they do get +15 Stam Regen and are harder to dispel with Lvl 3 Mastery though). RCs however, do scale with the summoners Mysticism+Focus/Imbuing skills (and also get +15 SR and harder to dispel with Lvl 3 Mastery). At 120 Mysticism+120 Focus/Imbuing, RCs have 120 in all skills they possess.

Seth

@PlayerSkillFTW

I know RC is stronger but I feel it's also slower.

What I meant was 
1) Magery and Eval, 240 skills, 2 EV

2) Mysticism and Focus, 240 skills, 1 RC

3) Magery, Mysticism, Eval and Focus, 480 skills, either 2 EV or 1 RC.

For 480 skills spent, it should be able to do 1EV and 1RC. I don't think it's too much to ask since it's not proportionately better. 

keven2002

Option 3 also allows you to cast RC while it tanks AND cast offensive spells against your target which you seemed to forget about.

Archangel

Oprion 2 also has offensive spells, a couple of them being really powerful

keven2002

Option 3 would include those same offensive spells from Option 2... hence the reason for 480 skill vs 240.

Archangel

or ditch eval on such template and make a mystic mage bard 4x120.. that actually works a treat

McDougle

Archangel said:

or ditch eval on such template and make a mystic mage bard 4x120.. that actually works a treat

Drop peace for meditation and the perfect buffing machine 

Archangel

McDougle said:

Archangel said:

or ditch eval on such template and make a mystic mage bard 4x120.. that actually works a treat

Drop peace for meditation and the perfect buffing machine 

like

Seth

keven2002 said:

Option 3 also allows you to cast RC while it tanks AND cast offensive spells against your target which you seemed to forget about.

All options can do the same tank and offensive.

It's about spending twice the skill points but not getting proportionately more options.

For 2 x 240 skills spent we don't get 128 spells, or 4 x EV.

So by right 1 x EV and 1 x RC would not be too much to ask. 

keven2002

Seth said:

keven2002 said:

Option 3 also allows you to cast RC while it tanks AND cast offensive spells against your target which you seemed to forget about.

All options can do the same tank and offensive.

It's about spending twice the skill points but not getting proportionately more options.

For 2 x 240 skills spent we don't get 128 spells, or 4 x EV.

So by right 1 x EV and 1 x RC would not be too much to ask. 

I disagree. 1 RC is more powerful than 2 EVs as outlined by another poster. You also don't need 120 eval to cast EV.