Paragon's retargeting.... what am I doing wrong ?

poppspopps Posts: 3,304
Something here is not working as it should.... me thinks....

I cast a summon, then cast invisibility on myself in order to get the Paragon aggro on the summon.... of course, being a Paragon, I unfortunately get revealed back right away and guess what ? The Paragon shifts from the summon and retargets me right after getting revealed....

Of course, being on foot (better summons, necessary for Paragons, are 5 slots), forget about trying to outrun the Paragon.... I even tried setting myself further away from the Paragon as compared to my summon thinking, that with my summon closer to the Paragon, the Paragon would stick on the summon and not on me... mind you, of course I stay still since movement attracts Paragons' attention....

Forget about it... even with me being further away as compared to my summon, the Paragon still disregards the summon and targets on me....

Yes, I can recast invisibility and that is what I usually try to do but, with protection on, too often my faster casting is so slow, that I find myself dead from the Paragon before I can finish my invisibility spell....

It looks to me, that Paragons' retargeting, speed, focusing on targets depending on their range from them (they should always prioritize closer targets...) is all screwed up....to the point of making these Events with such a low playability and success rate for certain templates that they are hardly any fun to be played...

Dieing a few times is OK, dieing all the time becomes only an annoyance, to my opinion, which takes the fun away from the gamelay while the playing of games, should all be about having fun and enjoy one's own time spent with them....

Oh well....
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Comments

  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    It's just bad luck sometimes I die 5 times before it locks on my pet
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,304
    McDougle said:
    It's just bad luck sometimes I die 5 times before it locks on my pet
    Is it ?

    Or is it perhaps the way it has been Designed to work ?

    To my opinion, the mechanics should be less frustrating on players and more of a reliable one....
  • vortexvortex Posts: 155
    popps said:
    Something here is not working as it should.... me thinks....

    I cast a summon, then cast invisibility on myself in order to get the Paragon aggro on the summon.... of course, being a Paragon, I unfortunately get revealed back right away and guess what ? The Paragon shifts from the summon and retargets me right after getting revealed....

    Of course, being on foot (better summons, necessary for Paragons, are 5 slots), forget about trying to outrun the Paragon.... I even tried setting myself further away from the Paragon as compared to my summon thinking, that with my summon closer to the Paragon, the Paragon would stick on the summon and not on me... mind you, of course I stay still since movement attracts Paragons' attention....

    Forget about it... even with me being further away as compared to my summon, the Paragon still disregards the summon and targets on me....

    Yes, I can recast invisibility and that is what I usually try to do but, with protection on, too often my faster casting is so slow, that I find myself dead from the Paragon before I can finish my invisibility spell....

    It looks to me, that Paragons' retargeting, speed, focusing on targets depending on their range from them (they should always prioritize closer targets...) is all screwed up....to the point of making these Events with such a low playability and success rate for certain templates that they are hardly any fun to be played...

    Dieing a few times is OK, dieing all the time becomes only an annoyance, to my opinion, which takes the fun away from the gamelay while the playing of games, should all be about having fun and enjoy one's own time spent with them....

    Oh well....
    Why are you only casting summons and invising? No wonder your having a hard time.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,969
    Yes by design. People complained about afk farming by tamers in Blackthorns. So they got rid of the mobs there and made future dungeons not afk friendly.

    I have told you how not get targeted every time these are out and you won't listen. You can search for the answer. Not going to go round and round with you.

    The few mobs here are much more conducive to a melee toon anyway.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 1,340
    Didn't he complain about this before and it was locked?  Hard to remember because he complains about everything.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 941
    You have to run on the first level so that if the para is at one end you are at least in the middle of the dungeon before you cast invis and then wait forever to disappear. Sometimes if the para is chasing you and close when you invis, you have to run and invis a second time or it will retarget you.  Some paras even though they are fighting your pet will retarget you when you come back because of the threat you represent.  Para shadow wyrms almost always drop every thing to go after my mage if I get close enough to hit one.  In short you are not putting enough distance between you and the para before you invis.  Since you are on foot, you may have difficulty getting far enough away to invis before getting killed.  My character is mounted and moving as fast as he can.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 941
    Just a thought.  If you cast your summons from a distance of around 18 before the para sees you and then disappear the summons will target the para and the para will go after the summons.  You can then cast a second summons. I use this tech. a lot and it does work.  A fair amount of the time you can then go in and get some hits.  But not always, depends on the para.  Some dispel your summons so quickly you don’t have time to cast a direct damage spell, and some are smart enough to target you.  I use it to solo para drakes.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 941
    If you can cast a summons why aren’t you mounted on one of those mounts you can keep on your backpack?  You could then put enough distance between you and the para that you could invis.  That would be more effective for breaking the lock than casting a summons when it comes to dragons.
  • MerusMerus Posts: 555
    Sometimes I find revealing myself to be a better option than waiting for the paragon to reveal me.  Right after you cast invis, speak overhead and see if that helps with the retargeting due to being revealed.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,304
    Arnold7 said:
    You have to run on the first level so that if the para is at one end you are at least in the middle of the dungeon before you cast invis and then wait forever to disappear. Sometimes if the para is chasing you and close when you invis, you have to run and invis a second time or it will retarget you.  Some paras even though they are fighting your pet will retarget you when you come back because of the threat you represent.  Para shadow wyrms almost always drop every thing to go after my mage if I get close enough to hit one.  In short you are not putting enough distance between you and the para before you invis.  Since you are on foot, you may have difficulty getting far enough away to invis before getting killed.  My character is mounted and moving as fast as he can.
    Sometimes if the para is chasing you and close when you invis, you have to run and invis a second time or it will retarget you. 

    That is what I try to do.... unfortunately, paragons move quite faster then a character on foot and, the fact that, as a spellcaster, I have to have Protection on, does not help being able to cast invisibility before the Paragon gets me... hell, I often am killed even before my invisibility spell casting ends..... the penalty for having protection to faster casting is simply too heavy or, some Paragons just blow too strongly....
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,304
    Arnold7 said:
    If you can cast a summons why aren’t you mounted on one of those mounts you can keep on your backpack?  You could then put enough distance between you and the para that you could invis.  That would be more effective for breaking the lock than casting a summons when it comes to dragons.
    It probably is my connection or the fact that I do not run UO on a SSD, not sure, but I simply have nowhere the fastness to be able to dismount, cast a 5 slots summon and then cast invisibility on myself, fast enough for the Paragon to stick on the Summon and not come after me....

    So, what I do, is move slowly as I am always on foot, and then, when I spot a Paragon that I can deal with, I cast my Summon from a distance right next to the Paragon and then cast invisibility on myself... unfortunately, most of the time, even though I am positioned way farther as my summon is, in reference to the Paragon, and I have cast invisibility on myself, to break aggro on me, since Paragons can reveal at quite a very large distance, immediately (a small delay could help here...), as soon as I get revealed, most of the time the Paragon disregards the summon and comes after me... of course, since I am on foot, and with Protection on, the Paragon easily reaches me and, depending on what Paragon it is, it also often kills me even before my 2nd invisibility cast on myself ends the interminable casting sequence due to having Protection on (the casting penalty is really too harsh here...).
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    I turned one of my tamer into gargoyle always run protection..
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 941
    Did not think you could cast a summons if you have a five slot pet.  Not a tamer so don’t know too much about that.  But think with some players getting killed is part of their strategy.  They and their pet do as much damage as possible and if they are killed they rez and finish it off.  Seems a little against human nature we are not brought to think that way.  But in this game it makes sense.  My mage goes down so fast it would not work for me, but if the warrior I am working on could do sufficient damage before going down I might adopt it for him.  Know you don’t like getting killed but with UO you have to adapt your style of play to the game.  One death costs me about $9,000 gold.  If I get killed 10 times, and I don’t like getting killed either, it costs me $90,000.  But if I get a drop I can sell it for around 1 million gold.  Anyway maybe getting killed isn’t always that bad a deal.  Only sold ten drops but that more than paid for all my deaths.
  • ArchangelArchangel Posts: 426
    Arnold7 said:
    If you can cast a summons why aren’t you mounted on one of those mounts you can keep on your backpack?  You could then put enough distance between you and the para that you could invis.  That would be more effective for breaking the lock than casting a summons when it comes to dragons.
    one can not ride anything if casting RC as it requires 5 slots
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 941
    Did not realize it was an rc.  Can you cast an rc if you are a tamer with a pet.  Was thinking from a survival point of view the mount would be better than the summons if you were looking to escape.
  • ArchangelArchangel Posts: 426
    Arnold7 said:
    Did not realize it was an rc.  Can you cast an rc if you are a tamer with a pet.  Was thinking from a survival point of view the mount would be better than the summons if you were looking to escape.
    I don't think so, sadly. Many a times my Casting CR or reaper fizzled, all because I was mounted on my ethereal ride....

    On a side note, when casting RC in a dangerous place, I go into stone form or reaper form to max my SDI and spam hailstorm (found this to be best spell against dragons)
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,142
    As a tamer in the dungeon I discovered that the optimum distance from my pet to cast heals is 10 tiles. At that distance the mob should be at 11 tiles with the pet between you. Also at that distance you can invis and stay that way, revealing to cast a heal on your pet and re-invising. If your pet is fighting a mob that is likely to invis itself, tell your pet to 'follow' with the mob as target. This will reduce the chances of your pet running back to you if it invises, thus putting you in more danger.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,304
    edited June 8
    As a tamer in the dungeon I discovered that the optimum distance from my pet to cast heals is 10 tiles. At that distance the mob should be at 11 tiles with the pet between you. Also at that distance you can invis and stay that way, revealing to cast a heal on your pet and re-invising. If your pet is fighting a mob that is likely to invis itself, tell your pet to 'follow' with the mob as target. This will reduce the chances of your pet running back to you if it invises, thus putting you in more danger.
    It was my understanding that Paragons could reveal at a 12 tiles distance..... they are limited at 10 tiles ?
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,142
    I can only tell you that at that distance I successfully took on paragons with my tamer on Origin, keep in mind it was the PET that was at 10 tiles, the paragon was beyond that. Not the really nasty ones, but up to weald protector.
    I haven't been in the dungeon in several days though, the reason being that I have gotten all the items I wanted from it on both shards that I play.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,304
    It must be something in the code, I suspect....

    Because I noticed, that if I cast invisibility on myself and a Paragon is around, even if a Summon is nearby, I have the impression that the Paragon, when I cast invisibility on myself, never really looses aggro on me so, when I get revealed because it is a Paragon, regardless that a summon is much nearer to the Paragon as compared to my character, often the Paragon retargets on me.

    YET, as I use gift of life from spellweaving, I noticed that, instead, if I get killed from the paragon, after dieing, the Paragon aggros on the Summon and, when I use gift of life and resurrect, oddily enough, the Paragon stays aggroed on the Summon and does not retarget on my character.

    Of course, as I move, then the Paragon retargets on me.

    So, I suspect that the casting of inisibility, for some coding mulfunctioning, does not really end for good the Paragon's aggro on that character which gets resumed, right after the character gets revealed because of the Paragon revealing ability....

    Dieing, instead, seems to end for good being aggroed until something else happens, like moving, which makes one get retargeted again.

    Perhaps, code should be looked at to make the casting of invisibility more reliable and working towards ending for good Monsters and Paragons aggroing on a character ?

    @Kyronix , please, .would it be possible to give a look at it ? Being able to reliably end being aggroed on through the casting of the invisibility spell is, I think, important.
    Thanks.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,753
    One Workaround is to use a Gargoyle Tamer Mage so it can run away fast.  
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,304
    Seth said:
    One Workaround is to use a Gargoyle Tamer Mage so it can run away fast.  
    I have thought about it... but it also has its downsides... being a Gargoyle can be an advantage but also brings hindrances.... I eventually preferred being an elf....
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,753
    edited June 8
    popps said:
    Seth said:
    One Workaround is to use a Gargoyle Tamer Mage so it can run away fast.  
    I have thought about it... but it also has its downsides... being a Gargoyle can be an advantage but also brings hindrances.... I eventually preferred being an elf....
    Yup, there is a trade off as advantage to fly. Other workaround include a second account to heal or invis your main player. Or you can call a group to seal off the choke point at the Ankh by energy shield and luring paragons there. It can also be used as a base. You can always call on global chat for everyone to help. They will be summoned instantly to aid during any one hour gameplay your choose anytime. 

    Btw, the above was done at Hythloth at Atlantic and my shard. Only diff is we didn't have to call players to help as players setup safe zone automatically.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 941
    edited June 9
    Have seen this thread about s tamer’s vulnerability now a couple of times.  Bottom line is the underlying UO philosophy regarding players.  Some, maybe most, tamers have pets that can easily solo para greater dragons with a little help from the tamer.  To offset this advantage tamers have, UO has their pets take up five slots so that the trainer has to be on foot and vulnerable.  Allowing tamers to be mounted would give them an unfair advantage over other players.  So this is not going to change.  Can’t put into words right now what this philosophy is called but it applies I think to all UO skill sets.  It’s the reason life leech and I believe word of death does not work on paragons.  Even though everything negative being said about a tamer’s vulnerability may be true it is not going to change because it is working as intended.  Players need to learn their characters.  My mage treasure hunter can’t melee any non para greater dragon but using a hit and run technique he kills them just the same.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,304
    Arnold7 said:
    Have seen this thread about s tamer’s vulnerability now a couple of times.  Bottom line is the underlying UO philosophy regarding players.  Some, maybe most, tamers have pets that can easily solo para greater dragons with a little help from the tamer.  To offset this advantage tamers have, UO has their pets take up five slots so that the trainer has to be on foot and vulnerable.  Allowing tamers to be mounted would give them an unfair advantage over other players.  So this is not going to change.  Can’t put into words right now what this philosophy is called but it applies I think to all UO skill sets.  It’s the reason life leech and I believe word of death does not work on paragons.  Even though everything negative being said about a tamer’s vulnerability may be true it is not going to change because it is working as intended.  Players need to learn their characters.  My mage treasure hunter can’t melee any non para greater dragon but using a hit and run technique he kills them just the same.
    But a Tamer's pet, while being 5 slots, is enormousily more powerfull as any Summon that a spellcaster might cast and, yet, there is Summons out there which, even not being remotedly anywhere close to a pet, still count as 5 slots followers...

    Me thinks, that Summons should be reduced in the number of slots which they take as followers...
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,753
    popps said:
    Arnold7 said:
    Have seen this thread about s tamer’s vulnerability now a couple of times.  Bottom line is the underlying UO philosophy regarding players.  Some, maybe most, tamers have pets that can easily solo para greater dragons with a little help from the tamer.  To offset this advantage tamers have, UO has their pets take up five slots so that the trainer has to be on foot and vulnerable.  Allowing tamers to be mounted would give them an unfair advantage over other players.  So this is not going to change.  Can’t put into words right now what this philosophy is called but it applies I think to all UO skill sets.  It’s the reason life leech and I believe word of death does not work on paragons.  Even though everything negative being said about a tamer’s vulnerability may be true it is not going to change because it is working as intended.  Players need to learn their characters.  My mage treasure hunter can’t melee any non para greater dragon but using a hit and run technique he kills them just the same.
    But a Tamer's pet, while being 5 slots, is enormousily more powerfull as any Summon that a spellcaster might cast and, yet, there is Summons out there which, even not being remotedly anywhere close to a pet, still count as 5 slots followers...

    Me thinks, that Summons should be reduced in the number of slots which they take as followers...
    Me also think colossus is not worth 5 slots
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 604
    Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this


  • poppspopps Posts: 3,304
    Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this


    I am talking about Summons, not pets....
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 941
    Also agree about the RC.  You can’t control like you do a pet.  It just kills everything in the area starting with the bad guys first and it is not nearly as powerful as some of the pets.  Four slots would be more realistic considering it is more powerful than an RC.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,969
    popps said:
    Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this


    I am talking about Summons, not pets....
    So you expect to get drops using a template from the 90s and 2000s? Summons have never been for mass killing.
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