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Change to house placement

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  • AnglesWingsAnglesWings Posts: 22
    @Yoshi amazing that I have to agree with you.
    this is only a problem, because the Orxxx and Steaxxx client. those client can interact with the server in a way that no one other official client can, I was readin on those discord channels, they can read packets, they can see things that no other client can, they used that in the past to read the invisible tiles and place, now they can read packets in and out and they know 100% the time when the area is open and place. nothing can beat those clients. reason i agree, be the mean kid and take the ball away from the other bully kids, at this point stop idoc/house placement all together. will give more time to devs to address other bugs  :)
  • Sylas_StormguardSylas_Stormguard Posts: 10
    BETTER FIX : Make a timer everyone can see to negate the exploit being used
  • looploop Posts: 392
    edited July 2023
    BETTER FIX : Make a timer everyone can see to negate the exploit being used
    Wouldn’t work. Scripts can act more instantly than a person can manually in response to a visible timer.

    Even as a non-PVPer, I think it would be neat if participating in IDOCs flagged everyone involved for PVP regardless of facet. I don’t think it should be considered karma-neutral to scavenge others’ property. This would be too drastic of a change, however, and it would come with a lot of complaints.
  • Sylas_StormguardSylas_Stormguard Posts: 10
    loop said:
    BETTER FIX : Make a timer everyone can see to negate the exploit being used
    Wouldn’t work. Scripts can act more instantly than a person can manually in response to a visible timer.

    Even as a non-PVPer, I think it would be neat if participating in IDOCs flagged everyone involved for PVP regardless of facet. I don’t think it should be considered karma-neutral to scavenge others’ property. This would be too drastic of a change, however, and it would come with a lot of complaints.
    Its not meant to fix scripting, its meant to solve the exploit without crippling legit players - solving scripting is another beast
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,031
    So every fallen house on every shard should have a raffle?

    I see why they do not take ideas from the forum.

    I would pay for another account just to place houses and let them go IDOC then repeat every few days.   :)
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • AnglesWingsAnglesWings Posts: 22
    Pawain said:
    So every fallen house on every shard should have a raffle?

    I see why they do not take ideas from the forum.

    I would pay for another account just to place houses and let them go IDOC then repeat every few days.   :)

    why? you think LS should be any special?  yes, just pay for another acc.

    for a guy that post here everyday on every topic, you sure give a lot of opinion and ideas!!

    I am all for IDOC's to be gone. everything is 100% scripted anyway, no one will loose anything as for regular players
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,031
    edited July 2023
    Pawain said:
    So every fallen house on every shard should have a raffle?

    I see why they do not take ideas from the forum.

    I would pay for another account just to place houses and let them go IDOC then repeat every few days.   :)

    why? you think LS should be any special?  yes, just pay for another acc.

    for a guy that post here everyday on every topic, you sure give a lot of opinion and ideas!!

    I am all for IDOC's to be gone. everything is 100% scripted anyway, no one will loose anything as for regular players
    Yes not one person has placed a house in UO without a script since busy shards only have spots after a collapse.  I see why you do not post on every thread.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited July 2023
    “IF this was a failed attempt to stop scripting advantage:

    this is due to a problem with the forum mods/forum rules.

    If someone had complaint about house placement scripters
    They are unable to post about it here.

    Because if you reference the existence of 3rd party programs, thread/post would get closed/deleted and you receive PMs with threats to ban if you even infer that 3rd party clients exist. So how someone going to describe the issue here?

    And instead things done behind closed doors so are not subject to peer review

    so IF this was the case
    Can thank @Mariah and @Rorschach for this blunder

    last time I posted a script here to complain about it, I receive such ban threat from mods via PM and script got deleted even though it was redacted and shown only part of script

    if someone was able to make complaint here about house placement script and they post their suggestion, it would take all of 10 seconds for everyone to tell them how the script worked
    or even/ here is exact script:
    and paste

    To explain why adding cool-down would not assist”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,031
    Yoshi said:
    “IF this was a failed attempt to stop scripting advantage:

    this is due to a problem with the forum mods/forum rules.

    If someone had complaint about house placement scripters
    They are unable to post about it here.

    Because if you reference the existence of 3rd party programs, thread/post would get closed/deleted and you receive PMs with threats to ban if you even infer that 3rd party clients exist.


    And instead things done behind closed doors and are not subject to peer review

    so IF this was the case
    Can thank @ Mariah and @ Rorschach for this blunder”
    For a place that we can not post about things, we sure have a lot of posts....

    She reads emails, not the forums.  Probably gets  bunch every day about all types of things.


    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,273
    Pawain said:
    Yoshi said:
    “IF this was a failed attempt to stop scripting advantage:

    this is due to a problem with the forum mods/forum rules.

    If someone had complaint about house placement scripters
    They are unable to post about it here.

    Because if you reference the existence of 3rd party programs, thread/post would get closed/deleted and you receive PMs with threats to ban if you even infer that 3rd party clients exist.


    And instead things done behind closed doors and are not subject to peer review

    so IF this was the case
    Can thank @ Mariah and @ Rorschach for this blunder”
    For a place that we can not post about things, we sure have a lot of posts....

    She reads emails, not the forums.  Probably gets  bunch every day about all types of things.


    So what's a bunch?  If yoshi sends 2 emails about nerve strike debuff he gets a patch  or is it 22? 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited July 2023
    “the people who post about it have to brave such threats or use other people’s accounts to post

    but most people would be intimidated by PMs threatening to ban”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,459
    Sylas_Stormguard said:
    loop said:
    BETTER FIX : Make a timer everyone can see to negate the exploit being used
    Wouldn’t work. Scripts can act more instantly than a person can manually in response to a visible timer.

    Even as a non-PVPer, I think it would be neat if participating in IDOCs flagged everyone involved for PVP regardless of facet. I don’t think it should be considered karma-neutral to scavenge others’ property. This would be too drastic of a change, however, and it would come with a lot of complaints.
    Its not meant to fix scripting, its meant to solve the exploit without crippling legit players - solving scripting is another beast

    There are very few legit players left.
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it. Some of us have been waiting a long time for this simple addition.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 991
    Yoshi said:

    "hmm, i am not sure what this is referring to either,

    there already was a cooldown on attempting to place no?

    maybe they think they are stopping house placement scripting??
    if so, this is not how it works,
    the house placement script knows when you can place by attempting to mount an ethy
    not keep repeating placement...

    So i can't think what the complaints are
    "


         Yep, sounds like another bandaid "fix" that doesn't address the problem at all.  good job UO Devs, you missed again.

        I do find it interesting that they put in  "Due to the large amounts of complaints" as a reason for this change, (If i had any houses I wasn't happy with, maybe it would affect me, but it doesn't)

    , I guess the anti-cheat crowed isn't vocal enough?  I can't say i've seen that many people complaining about house placement as I have scripts, bots, and pvp-related cheats though...  Devs need to get those priorities straight.
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,031
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    Yoshi said:
    “IF this was a failed attempt to stop scripting advantage:

    this is due to a problem with the forum mods/forum rules.

    If someone had complaint about house placement scripters
    They are unable to post about it here.

    Because if you reference the existence of 3rd party programs, thread/post would get closed/deleted and you receive PMs with threats to ban if you even infer that 3rd party clients exist.


    And instead things done behind closed doors and are not subject to peer review

    so IF this was the case
    Can thank @ Mariah and @ Rorschach for this blunder”
    For a place that we can not post about things, we sure have a lot of posts....

    She reads emails, not the forums.  Probably gets  bunch every day about all types of things.


    So what's a bunch?  If yoshi sends 2 emails about nerve strike debuff he gets a patch  or is it 22? 

    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • KingKing Posts: 55
    Another idoc and as usual svoystvo guy places again.
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,102
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    Yoshi said:
    “IF this was a failed attempt to stop scripting advantage:

    this is due to a problem with the forum mods/forum rules.

    If someone had complaint about house placement scripters
    They are unable to post about it here.

    Because if you reference the existence of 3rd party programs, thread/post would get closed/deleted and you receive PMs with threats to ban if you even infer that 3rd party clients exist.


    And instead things done behind closed doors and are not subject to peer review

    so IF this was the case
    Can thank @ Mariah and @ Rorschach for this blunder”
    For a place that we can not post about things, we sure have a lot of posts....

    She reads emails, not the forums.  Probably gets  bunch every day about all types of things.


    So what's a bunch?  If yoshi sends 2 emails about nerve strike debuff he gets a patch  or is it 22? 

    Original is my preference

     
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    “This can’t be an attempted change to stop house scripters. Must be some other complaint 

    because I don’t have any coding knowledge at all, i even have learning difficulties but am able to deduce by reading the script that one attempt is made to place the house only and adding a cool-down would not affect it.

    So somebody must know what the complaint was and what this change does to help that complaint. “


    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,263
    edited July 2023
    CovenantX said:

    , I guess the anti-cheat crowed isn't vocal enough?  I can't say i've seen that many people complaining about house placement as I have scripts, bots, and pvp-related cheats though...  Devs need to get those priorities straight.
    Well said. The problem is that the Dev team isn't transparent at all with almost anything so it's easy enough to claim "based on a large number of complaints" and the general UO population has no idea if that's true. It's possible there were 20/30/40 complaints but for some reason, I just don't think that is true because house placement probably only effects people on ATL (most other shards you can place a house right now with no competition). I think it's more likely that it was something like 5-10 complaints by random people or 1 complaint by a well known house scripter (to help get even more market share). Without the transparency we'll never know what it was, but I'm sure this is how Mesanna likes it. 

    I'm not going as far as saying Mesanna is in on anything malicious (aside from maybe playing favorites with people she likes), and honestly if I had to guess it's probably a "fix" that she thought would actually help non-scipting players but unfortunately she, along with the rest of the Dev team, probably don't play UO much anymore so they don't know how the house placement scripting works. 

    All that said, I think it's very hard to believe that there were more complaints about house placement as opposed to something like bots / pvp scripts / lack of engagement from Dev team. Seems like just another random thing that jumped to the top of the priority list on a whim. 

    EDIT** One thing I will say is that I think accepting suggestions via email is overall just bad practice. It's very easy to create 10-15 emails and send Mesanna an email with the same idea. Suddenly there are several emails saying the same thing when in reality it might just be 1 or 2 people (with a lot of time on their hands) that might not even have more than 1 paid account. A better idea would be to create a submission system via this forum where you need to login to submit it. It's a 3 fold win where it creates more traffic to the forums for discussion and it's going to ensure only paid accounts are submitting ideas and it all can be tracked and audited if needed. Of course, we know that will never happen though because that would allow people to be held accountable.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,273
    keven2002 said:
    CovenantX said:

    , I guess the anti-cheat crowed isn't vocal enough?  I can't say i've seen that many people complaining about house placement as I have scripts, bots, and pvp-related cheats though...  Devs need to get those priorities straight.
    Well said. The problem is that the Dev team isn't transparent at all with almost anything so it's easy enough to claim "based on a large number of complaints" and the general UO population has no idea if that's true. It's possible there were 20/30/40 complaints but for some reason, I just don't think that is true because house placement probably only effects people on ATL (most other shards you can place a house right now with no competition). I think it's more likely that it was something like 5-10 complaints by random people or 1 complaint by a well known house scripter (to help get even more market share). Without the transparency we'll never know what it was, but I'm sure this is how Mesanna likes it. 

    I'm not going as far as saying Mesanna is in on anything malicious (aside from maybe playing favorites with people she likes), and honestly if I had to guess it's probably a "fix" that she thought would actually help non-scipting players but unfortunately she, along with the rest of the Dev team, probably don't play UO much anymore so they don't know how the house placement scripting works. 

    All that said, I think it's very hard to believe that there were more complaints about house placement as opposed to something like bots / pvp scripts / lack of engagement from Dev team. Seems like just another random thing that jumped to the top of the priority list on a whim. 
    I'm glad keven2002 is a mini McDougle these days as he is much more articulate than i 
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,421
     :D 
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,866
    How about this as a solution: All attempts to place a house in area of a idoc are put into a pool of pending placements and after 5 minutes a random house is pulled out of the pool and is placed. One entry in the pool per master account is allowed. Similar to a raffle system.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    TimSt said:
    How about this as a solution:
    "Solution to what?
    we still don't know what the complaints were"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,866
    Yoshi said:
    TimSt said:
    How about this as a solution:
    "Solution to what?
    we still don't know what the complaints were"

    The scripted placement that happens faster than human can place manually.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    "that was not the complaint, or else they would've made a change to address that issue"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 991
    Yoshi said:
    "that was not the complaint, or else they would've made a change to address that issue"
      You're probably right about that.
     
       a scripter lost placing a house to another scripter with more accounts (chances) at placing, now they're jealous!.

       @Kyronix ; you can chime in at anytime man, you have like 90+% of the people running clients that give them a field of view of ~3 screen distance, walls of stone & fields into tiles reducing lag & making them much much easier to target for dispelling/or placing additional fields around the area without being blocked by animations....  triple party invites for 3x drops from encounters like shadowguard where legitimate players do 1 run, which is just shy of an hour if done efficiently for a ~20-25% chance at a single drop.     -Pre AoS stun-punch, (unbreakable stun) when non-cheaters had no access to it, Clearly a massive unfair advantage, nobody got suspended or banned for.   what's the deal?
     
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,276
    edited July 2023
    Well. The fella that i've been helping that was completely new to UO quit because of all this dumb crap. He was slowly noticing the bugs, seeing the cheats and the complete lack of support we're so fondly known for and had enough with whatever the hell this change was supposed to do. 


    You guys ran one more (paid account) off. Great job! 


  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,102
    what has it done? i went to test and tried placing a house several times and never got any timer. 

    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,276
    Victim_Of_Siege said:
    what has it done? i went to test and tried placing a house several times and never got any timer. 


    ROFL good catch. The change doesn't even apply to test center. 

    Try it on regular server. You don't have to commit to the plot. Drop a plot cancel and try again. 
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,273
    Victim_Of_Siege said:
    what has it done? i went to test and tried placing a house several times and never got any timer. 

    Maybe test didn't get the patch? I mean no need to test it right 
  • SkettSkett Posts: 1,478
    I just tried on Pac and first attempt was a go then 2nd 3rd 4th etc for at least 50sec then tool timed out so its working as intended with the new up date

    not sure what the up date is trying to stop but when Im trying to place using the cc client I need several attempts so this change is a really messed up change that punishes once again the honest players .
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