3 Reasons Not To PVP in 2023

I PVP'd during chaos/order and during the early years of Factions.  Both were fun.  I did not PK and I was a little late for the halcyon days of Dread versus Anti. 

Here are the reasons:

1. You have to script or use 3rd party apps to be competitive
2. Very few mature PVP'ers
3. See number 1
«1

Comments

  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,295
    Don’t PvP myself but saw what bots could do at last years Easter egg hunt.   The smarter ones could easily outperform any human player.  Amazed at how fast they were.  Don’t know if they were monitored or on their own.  They did not have to move or click on a mouse.  In the time it took a real player to do that they got the egg and recalled out to the next location.
  • dvviddvvid Posts: 849
    Point 1: This is what @Yoshi is always mentioning here. It really seems pointless to try to PVP without other software or scripts. 

    Point 2: This is one major reason PVP seems like something I would never get into because I graduated highschool a long time ago and don’t really care to be around people who seem to be psychologically stuck there for eternity. 
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,208
    Arnold7 said:
    Don’t PvP myself but saw what bots could do at last years Easter egg hunt.   The smarter ones could easily outperform any human player.  Amazed at how fast they were.  Don’t know if they were monitored or on their own.  They did not have to move or click on a mouse.  In the time it took a real player to do that they got the egg and recalled out to the next location.

    I've been playing a thief 20 years so i'm pretty good at what i can do and i had trouble keeping up. Even standing still with their pack open i still had a 50/50 shot before their auto insure hit. This also applies to this years eggs as well. Don't forget the piles of auto attack characters in the Destard event too. 

    These are only events. Now imagine those frustrations being an everyday issue in the 1 thing you love to do in UO and probably about the only thing that keeps you logging in. PvPers have and always will be treated like orphan kids nobody wants even though they're the ones buying all the loot.
    dvvid said:Point 1: This is what @ Yoshi is always mentioning here. It really seems pointless to try to PVP without other software or scripts. 

    I honestly think Yoshi falls under the last portion of my above statement.

    I couldn't imagine being so frustrated and not being able to voice those frustrations because of a TOS in the only place a dev MIGHT respond. Like real protests, the only way to achieve change is to have open dialogue. 
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,243
    AoS destroyed REAL PvP.  Now it is Suit V Suit with 3rd party so not much Human skill involved.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2023
    "according to Pawain you don't need debuff for nervestrike so can PvP fine without autobox,
    i look forwards to seeing him in the next tournament. I bet the final will be Pawain and Rorscharch...
    since they are both top experts"
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2023
    “Let me ask you a question.

    if you visited uo.com and followed the links to buy game time code and site was down, maybe you send an email and you wait. Okay no response after many months, then still can’t buy game time code, then your house or castle turns idoc. You should be condemned for buying code from third party supplier?

    quit demonising the housewives that just want to:
    play a game

    if you play in trammel it’s same subscription cost if you play in fel but they don’t fix fel bugs because??

    stop criminalising players. We all love to play the same game”
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,019
    Yoshi said:
    "according to Pawain you don't need debuff for nervestrike so can PvP fine without autobox,
    i look forwards to seeing him in the next tournament. I bet the final will be Pawain and Rorscharch...
    since they are both top experts"
    Will these programs give me faster reflexes or PvP skills and knowledge?

    Or PvP is not about those things?  Its just your robot against mine?  
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2023
    “I write bug report that missing debuff for nerve strike, you say it’s not bug 
    so people must use script to auto box 

    if there was debuff, you would be using your reactions to press trapped box macro,  

    and not need to have it automatic.

    you and Rorschach biggest problem that make people use 3rd party client, writing stuff and interfering with stuff when you never stepped foot in fel and have no plans to”
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  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,243
    edited June 2023
    Yoshi said:
    “I write bug report that missing debuff for nerve strike, you say it’s not bug 
    so people must use script to auto box 

    if there was debuff, you would be using your reactions to press trapped box macro,  

    and not need to have it automatic.

    you and Rorschach biggest problem that make people use 3rd party client, writing stuff and interfering with stuff when you never stepped foot in fel and have no plans to”
    You do not write bug reports, you write reports to put down UO Devs and promote 3rd party apps.  You just like thumbing your nose at the Devs.
  • SaulGoodman1SaulGoodman1 Posts: 285
    Very immature people i agree. would be nice if there was a dedicated pvp chat channel so the rest of use don't have to endure the never ding stream of "NICE DIE 3 VS 1 TURN THE SPEEDER UP, CHUGGER"
  • jelinidasjelinidas Posts: 352
    Damn, all this talk about 3rd party apps. Going have to google them. What one is better?
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,243
    Very immature people i agree. would be nice if there was a dedicated pvp chat channel so the rest of use don't have to endure the never ding stream of "NICE DIE 3 VS 1 TURN THE SPEEDER UP, CHUGGER"
    They can do this already but then they would have no one but themselves hearing it.  They are all 3 years old craving attention.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2023
    Rocko said:

    2. Very few mature PVP'ers

    “I am not really sure what you mean by this, could you elaborate?
    are you meaning people trash talk?
    if that is the case, I don’t experience any of it as
    a) I don’t log into general chat
    (b) my vision problem means I can’t read much over head chat) 
    but people v rarely type things in overhead chat as they’re normally too busy fighting to multitask 

    I think we enjoy a good rapport with rival guilds, if we lose a fight very often they will ask if we’re returning etc and we will say yes give us x mins or no we give up so people not waiting around for nothing. 
    Very often rivals message in discord to say good fight 

    I see discord channels and the pvp talk to me is just ‘banter’
    Even sometimes if we are bored and want some fights you can ask certain players to start some trash talk in discord to get people to bite and log in. Almost like the trash talk is someone’s job as PR to get the action going.

    The trash talk can be optional, you don’t have to read in game and in discord you can check out the chat channels as and when or not read at all

    i get very annoyed if one of our guild members kicks a rival from our public discord channel for trash talking because that is what it is there for, even if they are a douche

    also, if you don’t like to use scripts, and someone kills you, (I don’t do this) but you could just say it don’t count as they are using cheats. But I will tell you, they find it very very embarrassing when they get owned and you share screenshot using uoassist and normal client. You know it really gets to them when they deny and say they lost con or something. You show how much they suck when they are killed by someone with client that don’t even work properly”
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  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 522
    edited June 2023
    One of the reasons i quit seriously PvPing in UO. I used to be well known for going up against 2-3 other players that were using scripts/speedhacks, and killing them, even though they had better gear than me and i was outnumbered. I was known as a "Gank Squad Killer", especially during SE/ML. Hence how i earned the moniker "PlayerSkillFTW".
    However, nowadays, the scripts are simply too advanced and prolific, with even third party clients now running numerous scripts at once. As i saw cheating becoming more rampant in UO, i did say that eventually PvP would no longer mean "Player vs Player", but "Program vs Program". I refuse to use cheats, so have stopped frequently seeking out PvP in UO. I got my PvP fix through other games, like Darkfall Online or Ark: Survival Evolved.
  • RockoRocko Posts: 174
    If a person can PvP without #1 & does not mind #2, my hat is off to you.  PvP is definitely about player skill whereas PvM is more about method, both relying on good equipment.  I do not see a solution for #1 coming from the players and #2 will never change.
  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,453
    I"ve never been more than a mediocre novice, and I"m embellishing here, pvp'r. But I'll chime in anyway. PvP will never be an even playing field, and no one wants it to be. Are you seriously telling me that after a 45 minute bok bok, spell spell,,run heal run heal..teleport..blah blah fest, opponents will suddenly stop all sweaty and say "damn that was great lets do it again"? hell no, someone always wants to win and winners will always find a way to win, and losers will always find a way to not be losers.
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it. Some of us have been waiting a long time for this simple addition.
  • SaulGoodman1SaulGoodman1 Posts: 285
    edited June 2023
    I don't pvp its stupid,it is pretty much the lowest form of any uo character. I think pvper's just pvp because they are bored *******.

    ***********************************

    *edited due to Terms of Service violations*
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,927
    edited June 2023
    The most disheartening thing, at least for me, is that, out there, there is a whole world of Anti-Cheat programs developed so that Designers might be interested to use them in their games so as to stop players from cheating in those games....

    Some Games make use of them and actually make life more difficult to cheaters, sometimes a whole lot, depending on what the Anti-Cheat software for that game is and what Third Party it can detect and stop from being used with that game Client, some other games do not....


  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    "very few people are actually cheating,
    broadsword have forced people to use this 3rd party stuff just to play without bugs,
    additional unwanted stuff comes shipped with it"
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  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,243
    edited June 2023
    Yoshi said:
    "very few people are actually cheating,
    broadsword have forced people to use this 3rd party stuff just to play without bugs,
    additional unwanted stuff comes shipped with it"
    This is an outright LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE.  Yes I am calling you a LIER.
    If all the PvP guilds are requiring you to use illegal clients then every one of you ARE CHEATING including you.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2023
    "not just my guildmates, uo forum mod who closed bug reports,
    players tried doing everything through the correct official channels to be able to play the game, there are written logs on this website of the bug reports, some dating back 5 year
    players are begging and pleading for long long time to be able to play without using 3rd party in fel
    "
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2023
    " @Frodo , how many times should a player expect to die from bugs before they use third party?"
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  • RockoRocko Posts: 174
    edited June 2023
    Yoshi said:
    "very few people are actually cheating,
    broadsword have forced people to use this 3rd party stuff just to play without bugs,
    additional unwanted stuff comes shipped with it"
    Hi Yoshi, this is untrue. I use the EC. I like it, I don't need or use any third party apps.  I know this is your forum theme but it is not true, no one is forced into 3rd party apps.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited June 2023
    "EC don't have the same problems but it's not same game, if someone wants to play a game with league of legends like graphics they will play league of legends.

    Don't tell me its not true, when i have shown the links to the bug reports.
    Also my forum theme? this suggests in itself this has been going on for a while...

    I was using CC for a long long time so i know

    and i logged in CC just the other day to check and confirmed its still broken"
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  • Acid_RainAcid_Rain Posts: 269

    However, nowadays, the scripts are simply too advanced and prolific, with even third party clients now running numerous scripts at once. As i saw cheating becoming more rampant in UO, i did say that eventually PvP would no longer mean "Player vs Player", but "Program vs Program". I refuse to use cheats, so have stopped frequently seeking out PvP in UO. I got my PvP fix through other games.
    Exactly the same sentiments I’ve had for years & have been vocal on it. One of the worst decisions UO has ever made, imho, was to fold under pressure during the PunkBuster controversy.

    Marketing information like this has been around for +20 years & why its been ignored is beyond me : 

    “Recent studies show 96 percent of customers will not complain, and 91 percent will simply never return.”
    - Feb 20, 2020

    With the sheer numbers complaining over the years of rampant cheating in UO, I’m truly baffled why more hasn’t been done to address it. It time, just how many players one of the greatest online games has lost due to this will be a dire warning to any serious future game developers.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,208
    Acid_Rain said:

    Exactly the same sentiments I’ve had for years & have been vocal on it. One of the worst decisions UO has ever made, imho, was to fold under pressure during the PunkBuster controversy.

    With the sheer numbers complaining over the years of rampant cheating in UO, I’m truly baffled why more hasn’t been done to address it. It time, just how many players one of the greatest online games has lost due to this will be a dire warning to any serious future game developers.

    I was against punkbuster as i still am. I don't remember any communication from whatever team was in charge at the time about what could be seen or flagged on the player computer. 

    My biggest issue was the fact that i do enjoy some of the freebie shards like many others that play here and we all know it takes a non official assistant to log into these. We couldn't even get confirmation if having this assistant loaded but not running during play here would cause sanctions to our accounts or flat blocked from logging in. 
  • usernameusername Posts: 690
    edited June 2023
    I am really sad when I think about UO and then hear about some other similarly old MMOs, such as Runescape. I will preface this with I don't play it, and never have, but I have several friends that do. It's a similarly old and skill based MMO. The main difference between UO and Runescape is: frequent updates/content and tough on cheating. Runescape does very frequent updates and also has an interesting system where they allow players to propose game changes (big or small) and then players can vote on it. If the voting passes, it is implemented to the game. Like other popular MMOs, they do massive ban waves of cheaters. This includes 3rd party client Runescape users by the way. I should mention that Runescape often has 100k+ active players. I'm just curious what UO would look like today if the devs actually cared about the game and gave it the attention it deserved. This is not bashing the devs, this is just a fact.

    Think the big problem is Mesanna sees these players as just another subscription so doesn't care. She doesn't have the foresight to realize, as many others have said, that the silent majority of people just quit and say nothing. 

    Constant regurgitated (and heavily botted) ToTs and letting these 3rd party programs run rampant will be the end of UO. Perhaps we can take a quick break from the new game and give your current subscribers some love @Mesanna ?
    This discussion has been closed.

    I will be slow to reply because I cannot log in/stay logged in to the forums.
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  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 886
    UO would be a hell of a game again if it could return to anything close to what it was, before the blatant cheating took over. 

    it would be nice for a change, then maybe the devs wouldn't be getting feedback for balancing from cheaters all the damn time.   -speaking of which, there are a few I haven't seen post here in a while, they prolly quit as soon as better players started using the same cheats.

     one of the best games ever has been reduced into cheat discussions all day every day... why would the ones in charge ever even let cheating get so bad?
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    “A lot of people would not go back to playing 30fps game, or whatever it currently is (maybe less), after playing at 130”
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  • RockoRocko Posts: 174
    Yoshi said:
    "...Don't tell me its not true, when i have shown the links to the bug reports.
    Also my forum theme? this suggests in itself this has been going on for a while..."
    Linking bug reports does not reflect a compulsion to use third party apps.
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