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Shard bound votes please

GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,403
in General Discussions
No more off shard buying elections..
«1

Comments

  • AmberWitchAmberWitch Posts: 689
    This is one of the things I truly find to be sad. It makes me wonder why the team didn't implement this right from the start.
  • MerlinMerlin Posts: 235

    No changes to current system please.  Trading votes across shard promotes relationships that would otherwise not exist.   This should be kept in place. 

  • SkettSkett Posts: 1,604
    Didn’t we just go through this debate.
    how much do votes sell for these days. 

  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,159
    Skett said:
    Didn’t we just go through this debate.
    how much do votes sell for these days. 

    Ima need about tree fiddy
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • TheoTheo Posts: 208
    How do you police this? I play about 7 shards. Are you telling me I can only vote on one shard?
  • JenniferMarieJenniferMarie Posts: 286
    I have said it before and I’ll say it again for the people in the back:

    The ability to change city loyalty or claim city loyalty should be suspended at governor election time. The moment nominees are allowed, for two weeks, you should not be able to adjust city loyalty. That would prevent people from “buying” votes from other shards in the moment just to gain an edge.
    ~ Jennifer-Marie

    "Insanity is a naturally occurring mutation; humanity has just managed to perfect it." -- JMK [[me]]
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,403
    I'd suggest any shard where you own are co-owned or friended you can vote .i mean IF you're a part of the shards community and have established RELATIONSHIPS should be easy..
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,428
    Voting should be restricted to where your main residents is.  Just because you have friends in other shards/states does not give you the right to vote in their election.  One vote per account per home shard only.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,317
    Who is rigging elections? What's the "perk" of being governor? Do you have some sort of access to actual funds within the treasury you can embezzle? Am I missing something here? I remember seeing a few burning scarecrows on ATL maybe 6 months ago that was warning the governors that they need to actually attend council meetings or they would be removed... all the position seems like to me is extra work all to simply set a town buff. Pass.
  • JenniferMarieJenniferMarie Posts: 286
    Because some people feel "important" with the governor tag or something? Who knows what makes some people tick. I know of at least one person on my home shard who goes off-shard and bribes for votes with gold or EM items.
    ~ Jennifer-Marie

    "Insanity is a naturally occurring mutation; humanity has just managed to perfect it." -- JMK [[me]]
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,266
     said:
    Because some people feel "important" with the governor tag or something? Who knows what makes some people tick. I know of at least one person on my home shard who goes off-shard and bribes for votes with gold or EM items.
    Tell them to PM me. I have votes!
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • JohnKnighthawkeJohnKnighthawke Posts: 433
    I certainly agree that there should be some kind of shard-bound control for votes, I'm indifferent to the mechanism. The idea of locking off the ability to register city loyalty during an election period, however defined, is also attractive. (A related problem is those "unlimited accounts" folks but that strike me as a lesser, though related, problem. That at least requires folks to come up with money. And let's face it, off-sharders has become the primary mechanism for this kind of fraud. So that's what I'm addressing in the post.)

    The issue to me is that it's overwhelmingly the local shard that'll bear the consequences of the election. Accordingly, they should have the say, not off-sharders.

    As to why someone would go through the trouble of engaging in this kind of voter fraud? Well, this goes to the various motives someone would want to be Governor. Items on this list are not mutually exclusive.

    • Sincere attachment to the city and the desire to represent the city.

    •RolePlaying. (Given that there's little if any you can actually do as Governor other than announce your events using in-game mechanisms, it's fair to say that at this point being Governor is primarily a role-playing mechanic.)

    •The ability to hold events for your city. (Nothing stops you from holding events as a non-Governor but I guess there's something extra-special about doing so as Governor?)

    •The ability to set the town buff. (Some people seem to design their equipment setups around a certain town buff.)

    •Ego/bragging rights. (And relatedly you could just super-hate your opponent and want to see him or her brought down in every petty way possible. This happens more often than anyone who hasn't seen it up close would realize.)

    From my own experience, this kind of voter fraud began with that last reason. The ones with the biggest egos didn't want to lose. From there, folks with other motives essentially felt obliged to engage in the fraud in order to have a chance at winning. Once off-sharders get involved in an election there's simply no other way to win without getting your own off-sharders.

    And that should sadden everyone, even folks who are attached to the current system.
  • JenniferMarieJenniferMarie Posts: 286
    edited December 2022
    I can honestly say the reason I got involved in wanting to be a governor is because I had an idea for an Easter event. We went so many years without even gifts, let alone live game-wide events, and a lot of people I play with on GL had a lot of disappointment about that so I took it upon myself to give them something.

    That was maybe 5 or 6 years ago, and I've just kept at it as habit I guess. :D
    ~ Jennifer-Marie

    "Insanity is a naturally occurring mutation; humanity has just managed to perfect it." -- JMK [[me]]
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,403
    Much like VvV should not work in tram town buffs should not work in fel this would fix the issue entirely 
  • JohnKnighthawkeJohnKnighthawke Posts: 433
    Grimbeard said:
    Much like VvV should not work in tram town buffs should not work in fel this would fix the issue entirely 

    I still think that ego would be a powerful motivator for this kind of fraud.
  • JohnKnighthawkeJohnKnighthawke Posts: 433
    I can honestly say the reason I got involved in wanting to be a governor is because I had an idea for an Easter event. We went so many years without even gifts, let alone live game-wide events, and a lot of people I play with on GL had a lot of disappointment about that so I took it upon myself to give them something.

    That was maybe 5 or 6 years ago, and I've just kept at it as habit I guess. :D

    I think you fit my typology under, at minimum, this category: "The ability to hold events for your city."
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,266
    keven2002 said:
    Who is rigging elections? What's the "perk" of being governor? Do you have some sort of access to actual funds within the treasury you can embezzle? Am I missing something here? I remember seeing a few burning scarecrows on ATL maybe 6 months ago that was warning the governors that they need to actually attend council meetings or they would be removed... all the position seems like to me is extra work all to simply set a town buff. Pass.
    I do it make the buff I want and to give my toons city Titles.

    I think The Artisan tree only spawns in a city with a Governor, so that makes it better to have one in all cities.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,403
    Why no fel governors? Bucs den ocollo why no tokuno royal city umbra luna ?? and the floating emporium. Making it so everyone could be involved should be simple..
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,266
    edited December 2022
    Ya the interest is so high. Im sure many cities have no Gov now...  Posters are complaining about having to sail to the Emporium, now you want a Gov and a tree?  Shouldn't all docks have them, why just that lame one?  And the Gypsy camps, have they not been ostracized enough? And the Orc Forts and the Brigand camps and Sanctuary where the NPCs are.  See how stupid that idea is?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • RinerRiner Posts: 379
    Stopping off shard voting is a great idea until you come to ideas to implement it. I personally would love the idea. As for implementation you cannot limit it to shards where the account owns a home, as what about the voting rights of those who cannot afford a home? What about second or third accounts do they have to have homes as well? Ok so basing it off house ownership is out. What about if there was a restriction to changing Citizen? That would only push the planning out for the election. People who wanted to pull votes off shard would make arrangements early and still be able to vote. Basically, you have the same result if you put a restriction on the age of toon that can vote, let's face it people currently make toon ahead of time for no other reason than to trade gift items cross shards.  I think the final and perhaps the best idea I saw put forward was that each account declares a home shard. That then leads to people complaining that they can only Vote on one shard per account, but they play legitimately on multiple shards. Nothing can change without giving up some flexibility and freedom in how we conduct ourselves, but I think the declaration of a home shard which can change given a cooling down period is a good way to stop the practice. This could, by the way, also be used to limit the receiving of gifts. As they could limit it to your declared home shard and then that trading market would be gone. This doesn't have an easy answer and none that will please everyone, but it would be nice to see it go away and not be a factor in elections. 
  • OrichOrich Posts: 20
    What is the problem? If I have 30 accounts and want to help someone?
    If you want to win that bad, you can also open 1,5,10,50 accounts and vote. There is no fraud involved. If I have 30, my bud have 20, my other bud have 40 accs, Hitomi have 100 active accs, so as you can see, is a win win, this game is all about who you know that can help.
  • JenniferMarieJenniferMarie Posts: 286
    edited December 2022
    Orich said:
    What is the problem? If I have 30 accounts and want to help someone?
    If you want to win that bad, you can also open 1,5,10,50 accounts and vote. There is no fraud involved. If I have 30, my bud have 20, my other bud have 40 accs, Hitomi have 100 active accs, so as you can see, is a win win, this game is all about who you know that can help.

    The problem is that many people running for governor on their home shard will go off-shard to bribe people they *DON'T* know to get votes.
    ~ Jennifer-Marie

    "Insanity is a naturally occurring mutation; humanity has just managed to perfect it." -- JMK [[me]]
  • RinerRiner Posts: 379
    edited December 2022
    Orich said:
    What is the problem? If I have 30 accounts and want to help someone?
    If you want to win that bad, you can also open 1,5,10,50 accounts and vote. There is no fraud involved. If I have 30, my bud have 20, my other bud have 40 accs, Hitomi have 100 active accs, so as you can see, is a win win, this game is all about who you know that can help.
    Under the current rule set voting with all those accounts, on all shards is very much permitted. Should it be, I'd argue no. You ask what's wrong with it. To answer that, first, it allows people to who take no part in the shard to run a town, in most cases taking it out of the active community. It also allows for people who the community recognizes as a harmful element to the shard's community to disrupt the shards population. To answer your next question, of who should decide this, I would say that it should be the active population of a shard. You would not want your real-life city, state, or country for that matter, run by people who do live there, and quite probably don't share your communities' values. I would add that it would be preferable to have voting linked to the master account, but again like all things there are two sides to that and work arounds. Off shard voting is a problem that is harming the community of many of the shards and should be stopped. 
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,317
    As long as the person getting the votes is semi-active and isn't trying to sabotage the town (removing town buff etc), what's the issue here? 

    Maybe I'm missing something so I'll go back to my question of "what is the point of being governor?" Let's say I win the election for the town race I run in. Aside from messing with the town buff and giving citizens titles.... what can I actually do that I couldn't if I weren't governor? To my understanding, governors don't have EM powers to lock things down or create rewards for events... and they don't get reimbursed for events so what's stopping me from just running those events and doing that stuff as simply a citizen of the town?
  • JohnKnighthawkeJohnKnighthawke Posts: 433
    keven2002 said:
    As long as the person getting the votes is semi-active and isn't trying to sabotage the town (removing town buff etc), what's the issue here? 



    Asked and answered. See above.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,317
    JohnKnighthawke said:
    keven2002 said:
    As long as the person getting the votes is semi-active and isn't trying to sabotage the town (removing town buff etc), what's the issue here? 



    Asked and answered. See above.
    Not sure what you mean. 
  • RinerRiner Posts: 379
    I don't see the Governor position so much as a personal benefit but rather a chance to serve the community. The Governor of a town can help to build community, much the way a good guild can. This in turn leads to a healthier population on the server. Lacking this the city becomes a dead space of NPCs. In the end I believe a mmorph lives or dies based on its community. People stay not to fight the same fights but to enjoy the same friendships. So, what harm does this cause? To me it slowly helps to kill first the town, then the server, and finally the game. 
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,317
    edited December 2022
    Riner said:
    I don't see the Governor position so much as a personal benefit but rather a chance to serve the community. The Governor of a town can help to build community, much the way a good guild can. This in turn leads to a healthier population on the server. Lacking this the city becomes a dead space of NPCs. In the end I believe a mmorph lives or dies based on its community. People stay not to fight the same fights but to enjoy the same friendships. So, what harm does this cause? To me it slowly helps to kill first the town, then the server, and finally the game. 
    What's stopping these said people from doing the same exact thing without the governor title? Without a governor tag; a community can't be built? I really don't care either way about the voting thing btw...I just don't understand why so many people are claiming it's ruining the community when people are free to do the same things without the governor title...if they really wanted to build the community. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,266
    keven2002 said:
    Riner said:
    I don't see the Governor position so much as a personal benefit but rather a chance to serve the community. The Governor of a town can help to build community, much the way a good guild can. This in turn leads to a healthier population on the server. Lacking this the city becomes a dead space of NPCs. In the end I believe a mmorph lives or dies based on its community. People stay not to fight the same fights but to enjoy the same friendships. So, what harm does this cause? To me it slowly helps to kill first the town, then the server, and finally the game. 
    What's stopping these said people from doing the same exact thing without the governor title? Without a governor tag; a community can't be built? I really don't care either way about the voting thing btw...I just don't understand why so many people are claiming it's ruining the community when people are free to do the same things without the governor title...if they really wanted to build the community. 
    A lot of Governors participate in the Meeting with the King where they make up Lore about their city. It is a lot of fun.  Some of these players who do this just do it for griefing. They wont go to the Meetings and they will set the Town Buff to something stupid. And they wont be on to give titles to Citizens.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • SkettSkett Posts: 1,604
    It’s not what you know but who you know? Seems voters feel the system is rigged knowing if it works for them it’s okay? 
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