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*GOLD SINK IDEA* DAoC House Deed Lease Concept

Nails_WarsteinNails_Warstein Posts: 133
in General Discussions
In Dark Ages of Camelot if you place a house in a designated area, you have to pay a lease.  What would players think about the possibility of being able to place a secondary house on low populated shards only?  The NPC that sells the house deed or the placement tools will only work on lower populated shards.  Perhaps players could only place them in Malas/TerMur so as to avoid blocking Castle and Keep placement in Tram/Fel.  Players would only be able to select smaller classic house styles, maybe small customizable would be okay, 500 max storage, the housing storage bonus would not apply to these houses.  Only subscription accounts can place these houses.  Make the cost like 1m/day, this could be changed.  Maybe even allow additional houses, but with each additional house increase the lease price.  Could make this a store item or feature if you don't like using it as a gold sink.

Alternative concept to personal placement.
Make them like New Magincia Stalls, you rent these little houses from designated areas within the game, they would only be available on low populated shards.  They could be like little villages and hamlets.  The game could make them fun by creating themes from Ultima lore.  If you do this method, you could open it up to EJ accounts who would pay sovereign instead of gold for them.  This concept would open it up to Atlantic, but perhaps increase the gold/sovereign price.

What would be the purpose?

1 - Might increase population on lower populated shards.
2 - Might encourage more community engagement.
3 - Might give players more reason to visit low populated shards.
4 - Might help players transition from one house to another.
5 - Gives a returning player, or quitting player time to consider their options.
6 - Gives a spot for visiting xsharders to store their idoc loot or storage for shopping.
  1. Do you like this idea?38 votes
    1. Yes
      52.63%
    2. Maybe
        2.63%
    3. No
      44.74%
Tagged:
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Comments

  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,023
    So the rich can become even richer?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Nails_WarsteinNails_Warstein Posts: 133
    edited March 2022
    Pawain said:
    So the rich can become even richer?
    Well the idea was for the rich to become poorer hence the gold sink, 1m or higher per day lease cost.  Right now all we have are relatively cheap customizable castle/keeps and city titles as our gold sink.  Returning players leave after the vendor search sticker shock.  Deleting vet rewards from idocs was so dumb.  Returning players have to pay 50m for a charger or ethereal horse.  I've known so many just fed up with how expensive everything is.  Tired of the pay to win strategy going on since AoS 2003.  I'm for anything that makes the rich poorer.  Not sure what the argument against this would be, but please anyone change my mind.  
  • Nails_WarsteinNails_Warstein Posts: 133
    FYI - I searched this topic before I posted, but guess I needed to use the keyword "sink", sorry if I was beating a dead horse here.  My idea is not exactly the same as theirs.  Hope people took the time to read what I wrote instead of basing it off previous debates.

    https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/70966

  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,263
    Nails_Warstein said:

    Tired of the pay to win strategy going on since AoS 2003.  I'm for anything that makes the rich poorer.  Not sure what the argument against this would be, but please anyone change my mind.  
    What do you think is paying to win?

    I only pay for my subscription with real life $$ and in the game majority of my stuff is from me just playing the game. The things I do buy are for things I do not have time/desire to do like getting a 120 fishing scroll (I bought that). 

    The argument against what you are suggesting is clear; you should only have 1 house per account (aside from Siege) and allowing players to pay for more is just going to allow certain people to monopolize the housing market with 1 account; ie go place castles on every shard they can and then try to sell those castle for a higher amount because of the organic shortage of housing that will be created when people start placing multiple houses.

    No insult intended on this but I also think it's ironic that someone that is a broker (which it says in your tag line) is saying they (supposedly) are in favor of making the rich poorer. I feel like there is likely a hidden agenda in this request that's being disguised as wanting to make the rich poorer because ironically enough, if you want to have a house on every shard you can if you just sub more accounts which will inevitably make you poorer for subbing all those accounts, but probably makes it hard to create a buying frenzy for home when others aren't willing to sub more accounts. 
     
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    Nails_Warstein said:
    In Dark Ages of Camelot if you place a house in a designated area, you have to pay a lease.  What would players think about the possibility of being able to place a secondary house on low populated shards only?  The NPC that sells the house deed or the placement tools will only work on lower populated shards.  Perhaps players could only place them in Malas/TerMur so as to avoid blocking Castle and Keep placement in Tram/Fel.  Players would only be able to select smaller classic house styles, maybe small customizable would be okay, 500 max storage, the housing storage bonus would not apply to these houses.  Only subscription accounts can place these houses.  Make the cost like 1m/day, this could be changed.  Maybe even allow additional houses, but with each additional house increase the lease price.  Could make this a store item or feature if you don't like using it as a gold sink.

    Alternative concept to personal placement.
    Make them like New Magincia Stalls, you rent these little houses from designated areas within the game, they would only be available on low populated shards.  They could be like little villages and hamlets.  The game could make them fun by creating themes from Ultima lore.  If you do this method, you could open it up to EJ accounts who would pay sovereign instead of gold for them.  This concept would open it up to Atlantic, but perhaps increase the gold/sovereign price.

    What would be the purpose?

    1 - Might increase population on lower populated shards.
    2 - Might encourage more community engagement.
    3 - Might give players more reason to visit low populated shards.
    4 - Might help players transition from one house to another.
    5 - Gives a returning player, or quitting player time to consider their options.
    6 - Gives a spot for visiting xsharders to store their idoc loot or storage for shopping.
    I agree that this could be looked into as an ingame possibility instead of the current pay to gain system where u need to pay for every single house. 

    Anyway, they don't care about idoc, soulstones, returning players, marketing. The game is dying, so they expect the same population will keep paying for new accounts to get a new house.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,455
    I'm neither for nor against the idea, if I want to play on another shard for a while without dropping an existing house I use boats, but just for the sake of clarity.
    These houses would be of limited size?
    They would be rented, not owned - similar to the function of Vaults?
    They would be not-transferable, and therefore couldn't be sold?
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited March 2022
    “this would benefit unsavoury people who travel to dead shards to farm power scrolls without being challenged and ship them back to live shard for free with shard shields.

    it’s really unfair on those who risk doing champs on live shards only to have their rewards worth less even though they often have to put in more effort to fend off rivals.

    Evidently people will naturally just do what benefits them personally to the deficit of the community. It is very sad”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    edited March 2022
    Yoshi said:
    “this would benefit unsavoury people who travel to dead shards to farm power scrolls without being challenged and ship them back to live shard for free with shard shields.

    it’s really unfair on those who risk doing champs on live shards only to have their rewards worth less even though they often have to put in more effort to fend off rivals”
    To my knowledge a house is not a necessity for champspawn.

    If your worry needs to be taken care, they can simply make champ spawn a special VVV system where at least 3 opposing forces are present before the Champ pops.  And if there is no PK we need to open 3 accounts to pop the champ. 
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,102
    Seth said:
    Yoshi said:
    “this would benefit unsavoury people who travel to dead shards to farm power scrolls without being challenged and ship them back to live shard for free with shard shields.

    it’s really unfair on those who risk doing champs on live shards only to have their rewards worth less even though they often have to put in more effort to fend off rivals”
    To my knowledge a house is not a necessity for champspawn.

    If your worry needs to be taken care, they can simply make champ spawn a special VVV system where at least 3 opposing forces are present before the Champ pops.  And if there is no PK we need to open 3 accounts to pop the champ. 
    In order to put scrolls in their respective books, they have to be locked down iirc. so a house would be a necessity to make it profitable.
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    edited March 2022
    Seth said:
    Yoshi said:
    “this would benefit unsavoury people who travel to dead shards to farm power scrolls without being challenged and ship them back to live shard for free with shard shields.

    it’s really unfair on those who risk doing champs on live shards only to have their rewards worth less even though they often have to put in more effort to fend off rivals”
    To my knowledge a house is not a necessity for champspawn.

    If your worry needs to be taken care, they can simply make champ spawn a special VVV system where at least 3 opposing forces are present before the Champ pops.  And if there is no PK we need to open 3 accounts to pop the champ. 
    In order to put scrolls in their respective books, they have to be locked down iirc. so a house would be a necessity to make it profitable.
    Yeah, that does not stop them from farming if they can fly off 170 + 125 items from their bank and back pack everyday. The house is for long term storage, commission vendors, crafting and display of shard bound rewards.

    Make PS shard bound, then that rules out anything to do with house to zero.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,421
    edited March 2022
    You could do it like the stalls in New Mag with pre build 7x7 Small Stone Workshop, 7x7 Small Marble Workshop or 8x7 Small Stone Towers only, you select house style with 4 vendors all ready placed in front of building (not on steps).  These stalls could be in the cities of Tram and Fel excluding New Mag, inside guard zones only just like New Mag, VvV cities would have to be set up where this area is outside that system.  This would allow safe travel for VS to any and all House Stalls.
    Included
    4 Vendors (normal Vendor fees apply)
    6 chests  (125 items unlimited weight) 750 storage with 50 extra storage for deco (800 total).
    Cost 100M a month paid accounts only so it does not compete with the extra storage system for EJ Accounts
    1 Housing Stall per account per shard.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    Lord_Frodo said:
    You could do it like the stalls in New Mag with pre build 7x7 Small Stone Workshop, 7x7 Small Marble Workshop or 8x7 Small Stone Towers only, you select house style with 4 vendors all ready placed in front of building (not on steps).  These stalls could be in the cities of Tram and Fel excluding New Mag, inside guard zones only just like New Mag, VvV cities would have to be set up where this area is outside that system.  This would allow safe travel for VS to any and all House Stalls.
    Included
    4 Vendors (normal Vendor fees apply)
    6 chests  (125 items unlimited weight) 750 storage with 50 extra storage for deco (800 total).
    Cost 100M a month paid accounts only so it does not compete with the extra storage system for EJ Accounts
    1 Housing Stall per account per shard.
    100m a month seems alot  :D
    But it is aligned to the OP's intent for a gold sink.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,421
    Seth said:
    Lord_Frodo said:
    You could do it like the stalls in New Mag with pre build 7x7 Small Stone Workshop, 7x7 Small Marble Workshop or 8x7 Small Stone Towers only, you select house style with 4 vendors all ready placed in front of building (not on steps).  These stalls could be in the cities of Tram and Fel excluding New Mag, inside guard zones only just like New Mag, VvV cities would have to be set up where this area is outside that system.  This would allow safe travel for VS to any and all House Stalls.
    Included
    4 Vendors (normal Vendor fees apply)
    6 chests  (125 items unlimited weight) 750 storage with 50 extra storage for deco (800 total).
    Cost 100M a month paid accounts only so it does not compete with the extra storage system for EJ Accounts
    1 Housing Stall per account per shard.
    100m a month seems alot  :D
    But it is aligned to the OP's intent for a gold sink.

    Everybody says 100M is chump change and they do want a GOLD SINK.  PSs alone could make you some good profit, LUCK Robe 35-40M.  There is a lot of stuff on a shard as long as you priced it for the shard and not ATL that would sell fast.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,421
    Lord_Frodo said:
    You could do it like the stalls in New Mag with pre build 7x7 Small Stone Workshop, 7x7 Small Marble Workshop or 8x7 Small Stone Towers only, you select house style with 4 vendors all ready placed in front of building (not on steps).  These stalls could be in the cities of Tram and Fel excluding New Mag, inside guard zones only just like New Mag, VvV cities would have to be set up where this area is outside that system.  This would allow safe travel for VS to any and all House Stalls.
    Included
    4 Vendors (normal Vendor fees apply)
    6 chests  (125 items unlimited weight) 750 storage with 50 extra storage for deco (800 total).
    Cost 100M a month paid accounts only so it does not compete with the extra storage system for EJ Accounts
    1 Housing Stall per account per shard.
    One thing I forgot to add to my list and this is #1 on the list
    YOU MAY NOT OWN A HOUSE ON THAT SHARD OR IT WILL CONDEAM ALL OF YOUR HOUSES ON THAT SHARD NO QUESTIONS ASKED.  I know this seams a little extreme but it  will prevent all of the ATL dealers taking all the House Stalls.

  • AmberWitchAmberWitch Posts: 685
    Sorry but this just sounds so elitist to me. It might fit the Atlantic culture but I don't think it applies to the rest of the verse where few even know what a plat is, never mind even caring what it is.

    Sorry but I just see it as another way for the circle of scripters to get richer and less opportunity for the daily common player. I don't know about anyone else but I'm getting tired of this game being about how to have more ways to line someone's pocket with money.



  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,102
    edited March 2022
    Seth said:
    Seth said:
    Yoshi said:
    “this would benefit unsavoury people who travel to dead shards to farm power scrolls without being challenged and ship them back to live shard for free with shard shields.

    it’s really unfair on those who risk doing champs on live shards only to have their rewards worth less even though they often have to put in more effort to fend off rivals”
    To my knowledge a house is not a necessity for champspawn.

    If your worry needs to be taken care, they can simply make champ spawn a special VVV system where at least 3 opposing forces are present before the Champ pops.  And if there is no PK we need to open 3 accounts to pop the champ. 
    In order to put scrolls in their respective books, they have to be locked down iirc. so a house would be a necessity to make it profitable.
    Yeah, that does not stop them from farming if they can fly off 170 + 125 items from their bank and back pack everyday. The house is for long term storage, commission vendors, crafting and display of shard bound rewards.

    Make PS shard bound, then that rules out anything to do with house to zero.
    Never said it stopped them, I just said it would be less profitable. this idea would make it more profitable for them. at 1 mil a day that's 1 Legendary Anatomy scroll for 2 months for a house. This isn't needed. if you want a house on a second shard, open a second account, like most of us have already done.  as far as scrolls being shard bound, that will just drive the price up even higher, no thanks.
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,023
    Yoshi said:
    “this would benefit unsavoury people who travel to dead shards to farm power scrolls without being challenged and ship them back to live shard for free with shard shields.

    it’s really unfair on those who risk doing champs on live shards only to have their rewards worth less even though they often have to put in more effort to fend off rivals.

    Evidently people will naturally just do what benefits them personally to the deficit of the community. It is very sad”
    Well said!

    But for Nails idea.  I could agree with a tent in certain areas of malas for a High fee. 2 chests that hold 125 items each, 6 lockdowns, no vendors.  

    That would satisfy the need of a person transitioning to a new shard or living out of a suitcase.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,421
    Yoshi said:
    “this would benefit unsavoury people who travel to dead shards to farm power scrolls without being challenged and ship them back to live shard for free with shard shields.

    it’s really unfair on those who risk doing champs on live shards only to have their rewards worth less even though they often have to put in more effort to fend off rivals.

    Evidently people will naturally just do what benefits them personally to the deficit of the community. It is very sad”
    They are going to continue to farm "DEAD SHARDS" with this they might keep the goods on that shard.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,421
    AmberWitch said:
    Sorry but this just sounds so elitist to me. It might fit the Atlantic culture but I don't think it applies to the rest of the verse where few even know what a plat is, never mind even caring what it is.

    Sorry but I just see it as another way for the circle of scripters to get richer and less opportunity for the daily common player. I don't know about anyone else but I'm getting tired of this game being about how to have more ways to line someone's pocket with money.



    They will still script but maybe keep it on the shards they are scripting so we do not have to go shopping on ATL all the time
  • Nails_WarsteinNails_Warstein Posts: 133
    I like all the feedback so far.  If this were done right, I think most people who took the time to analyze my suggestion could come up with a reasonable manner to create this utility for the betterment of the game.  I have griped about inflation in UO and the real world nearly my entire adult life.  I remember what it was like to save up for an all valorite armor set for 1m gold, only to get PKd and lose it within hours of sporting it outside city protection.  The staff created this ridiculous loot protection vet reward to save players pennies, and don't address that out of control inflation that makes playing without dying as much possible.  How can one even get a power scroll on their own if they die in cheap armor trying to get it.  Right now I am helping an entirely new player, and its very frustrating for them, and I've been doing this as being part of the Gentle Rest Inn guild on Catskills for 20 years.  I truly hope players understand this idea comes from a good place as someone who invests their time in this game, and wants it to prosper.

    Personal side note.
    I did notice the personal jabs, and I accept them for what they are.  Many people don't understand I broker for FREE, yes that's right, I broker for FREE any item in the game for gold across shards or otherwise.  I give free price quotes based on research.  I've done this for 18 years now after getting scammed too much.  Before weightless gold, I was brokering up to 100 trades for free a day much to my wife's ire.  The seller gave me the item, buyer gave me the gold, sometimes via vendors, and I exchanged them.  No one got scammed.  Occasionally I got a tip, but that was rare.  However if someone asks me to save them time and sell something for them on my own time, I do charge a percentage for that.  Flamestrike me if that bothers you.
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 510
    Nails_Warstein said:
    I like all the feedback so far.  If this were done right, I think most people who took the time to analyze my suggestion could come up with a reasonable manner to create this utility for the betterment of the game.  I have griped about inflation in UO and the real world nearly my entire adult life.  I remember what it was like to save up for an all valorite armor set for 1m gold, only to get PKd and lose it within hours of sporting it outside city protection.  The staff created this ridiculous loot protection vet reward to save players pennies, and don't address that out of control inflation that makes playing without dying as much possible.  How can one even get a power scroll on their own if they die in cheap armor trying to get it.  Right now I am helping an entirely new player, and its very frustrating for them, and I've been doing this as being part of the Gentle Rest Inn guild on Catskills for 20 years.  I truly hope players understand this idea comes from a good place as someone who invests their time in this game, and wants it to prosper.

    Personal side note.
    I did notice the personal jabs, and I accept them for what they are.  Many people don't understand I broker for FREE, yes that's right, I broker for FREE any item in the game for gold across shards or otherwise.  I give free price quotes based on research.  I've done this for 18 years now after getting scammed too much.  Before weightless gold, I was brokering up to 100 trades for free a day much to my wife's ire.  The seller gave me the item, buyer gave me the gold, sometimes via vendors, and I exchanged them.  No one got scammed.  Occasionally I got a tip, but that was rare.  However if someone asks me to save them time and sell something for them on my own time, I do charge a percentage for that.  Flamestrike me if that bothers you.
    ROFL!
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • CharGarCharGar Posts: 38
    Won't work.  Take siege for example.  Able to place a second house.   What happened?   Folks placed and left.  Never played.  Took up housing space for playing folks.   They are standing empty now for around 8 years.
  • UltimaBrokerUltimaBroker Posts: 1
    CharGar said:
    Won't work.  Take siege for example.  Able to place a second house.   What happened?   Folks placed and left.  Never played.  Took up housing space for playing folks.   They are standing empty now for around 8 years.
    If you read the post, the houses could be put in designated areas, so as not to take up space because that was a concern of my own as well.
  • AmberWitchAmberWitch Posts: 685
    Instead of taking up valuable housing space why not take the space that's already being used for this idea that's in Magincia and turn it more into a market?

    Which is it? Wanting to own valuable real estate or wanting to vendor?
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    Victim_Of_Siege said:
    ...as far as scrolls being shard bound, that will just drive the price up even higher, no thanks.
    So true, this applies to all shard bound items, and in fact it reduces the availability in the long term.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,421
    AmberWitch said:
    Instead of taking up valuable housing space why not take the space that's already being used for this idea that's in Magincia and turn it more into a market?

    Which is it? Wanting to own valuable real estate or wanting to vendor?
    That is why I suggested putting them in the Tram and Fel Cities as Housing Stalls.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    edited March 2022
    Instead of taking up valuable housing space why not take the space that's already being used for this idea that's in Magincia and turn it more into a market?

    Which is it? Wanting to own valuable real estate or wanting to vendor?
    The suggestion is for low pop shard, so there is plenty of land. 

    For me I am thinking:

    - Placing comms vendor
    - Can lock down only deco.
    - Fixed container space and location. e.g. comes with 4 built-in chests with up to 125 storage each.
    - Not allowed to lock down containers or PS book if that is the issue. 

    It needs ideas to make it attractive to majority of the rich veteran population without making it a tool for scripters, etc.

    If they are not useful, then the houses will become white elephant and empty.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • DerajDeraj Posts: 88
    It looks like a solid idea to me. I've long thought it would be cool if there were pre-built houses inside of towns that could be "leased" for as long as someone was willing/able to pay, that could be decorated but not customized. I dunno about 1m gold a day though, even for a gold sink that seems a bit much to me. I do like the idea of multiple houses per account for an escalating leasing price. The price could also scale according to the size/storage capacity of the house, if such options are available.

    The downside of this idea is that this could conceivably result in less accounts. I imagine a chunk of Broadsword's revenue comes from house-holding accounts. On the upside, more gold leaving the system and players logged in more to pay for the houses.
  • gaygay Posts: 382
    Or here is an idea.
    Pay 12.95$ for another account, and place a house anywhere there is a spot. Shards aren't dead because people don't have the option to place a house, shards are dead because there are too many servers online for the amount of players left playing the game.

    it's not rocket science, and the solution is not only simple, but the foundation for it has been being laid for the last few years now.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,263
    gay said:
    Or here is an idea.
    Pay 12.95$ for another account, and place a house anywhere there is a spot. Shards aren't dead because people don't have the option to place a house, shards are dead because there are too many servers online for the amount of players left playing the game.

    it's not rocket science, and the solution is not only simple, but the foundation for it has been being laid for the last few years now.
    Exactly. I'm thinking the profit margins are getting a little thin for the people with a bunch of accounts trying to sell houses now a days based on the UO population. Could be wrong but why else would someone really push this? 

    For what it's worth, you don't even need to pay the $13 a month every month to keep the house; just pay once every 3 months if you need to keep the slow selling house from falling. Pulse when you pay for the accounts to create a run on property (ie create the supply/demand). Only thing will be picking the right shard to do this on since there are so many. This is basically what the idea is suggesting; just on a single account level versus multi account level (cheaper for whoever is selling houses).
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