Dynamic events, paragons, and mounted combat

Wrac · October 2021

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

See damage reduction isn't important just because when we both get hit with 3 60 point breath attacks i take 36 less is irrelevant get gud noob

Do you ever post anything constructive?

Funny, I was wondering the same about you.

Pawain said:

Do not step on other templates to bring yours up! Learn to play it better. Leave others alone.

When did I step on any other template, I said tamers are at a disadvantage being unmounted. Again, if it's not a disadvantage, no mounts in dungeons should have zero impact on any class.

Pawain said:

Do not step on other templates to bring yours up! Learn to play it better. Leave others alone.

I wondered when the "git gud nub" comments would start. Ignorant bullies usually fall back to this argument pretty quickly when they cant back up their position with reason and logic. Again, If it's an issue allowing tamers to be mounted, please explain how/why that would be an issue.

Pawain · October 2021

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

See damage reduction isn't important just because when we both get hit with 3 60 point breath attacks i take 36 less is irrelevant get gud noob

Do you ever post anything constructive? Just whine and cry because the game does not do what you want? Gargoyles have been out for years. Were they different last month? Nope. Learn to play one if you want to be one. How common is it to have 3 hell hounds in the same floor even.
At least make up BS that could happen.

I die a lot on my armored swampy whaa wha wha.
Have some cheese with your whine.

So you are willing to admit it is a huge problem?

I admit there has never been an issue except for the one you are imagining. Grow Up.

Pawain · October 2021

Wrac said:

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

See damage reduction isn't important just because when we both get hit with 3 60 point breath attacks i take 36 less is irrelevant get gud noob

Do you ever post anything constructive?

Funny, I was wondering the same about you.

Pawain said:

Do not step on other templates to bring yours up! Learn to play it better. Leave others alone.

When did I step on any other template, I said tamers are at a disadvantage being unmounted. Again, if it's not a disadvantage, no mounts in dungeons should have zero impact on any class.

Pawain said:

Do not step on other templates to bring yours up! Learn to play it better. Leave others alone.

I wondered when the "git gud nub" comments would start. Ignorant bullies usually fall back to this argument pretty quickly when they cant back up their position with reason and logic. Again, If it's an issue allowing tamers to be mounted, please explain how/why that would be an issue.

I guess you forgot your original post where you said other player types should not have mounts.
Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants.. Explain again why you can not mount a Cu?

Here something constructive. Unlike anything you and Mc dougle post.
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9602/tips-and-hints-for-treasures-of-die-loth

Maybe you should have read that first and got better?

Wrac · October 2021

Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants..

No, It's not and I think you understand that, but you just can't stand the idea that someone would dare to contradict you.

I suggested all mounted combat or all combat on foot... didnt attack any other templates.

Pawain · October 2021

Wrac said:

Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants..

No, It's not and I think you understand that, but you just can't stand the idea that someone would dare to contradict you.

I suggested all mounted combat or all combat on foot... didnt attack any other templates.

Many templates are built around the ability to move, whether on mount or flying. I can make you a four slot Triton build that allows you to ride a horse if you want. Just find a Triton with over 200STR and 125 Wrestling.

popps · October 2021

Wrac said:

I didn't start this thread as an effort to point out any level of imbalance between classes. I know its a sore point for many players, and I do sympathize, but it wasn't the point of my post. This was an effort to point out design flaws that keep a significant portion of the player community from having the same opportunity to enjoy the game (unless hiding or death runs are your idea of enjoyment). I fully admit I was baiting the melee community a little with the suggestion of no mounts. The logic does apply though. Put everyone on equal footing. (sorry, couldn't help myself )

I see the same threads on the boards that were referenced above, players getting 60+ drops in an hour... good for them. I can scrape about 5 or 6 drops per hour as a 6x 120 tamer and I'm fine with that. I've got melee characters that I'm sure if I dusted them off would get more drops that the tamer, but I like taming. That's what I choose to play and I'll live with the consequences of not getting as large a slice of the pie, I just want an opportunity to sit at the table. Even with a zero slot mount you could argue tamers are still disadvantaged because the pet wont run the same speed. As a community though, I think we'd much rather deal with that problem than no mount at all.

This was an effort to point out design flaws that keep a significant portion of the player community from having the same opportunity to enjoy the game (unless hiding or death runs are your idea of enjoyment).

And what would this "Design Flaw" be, if I may ask, if not an imbalance in the game ?

I mean, by Design, you have 1 Template being able to be largely more effective as other templates, and this would not be an imbalance, by Design ?

Go figure....

I see the same threads on the boards that were referenced above, players getting 60+ drops in an hour... good for them. I can scrape about 5 or 6 drops per hour as a 6x 120 tamer and I'm fine with that.

Well, to my opinion, it is wrong to be fine with scraping much less drops on a Template other then a Warrior...

And you know why ?

Because if the Rewards are set with a given (high) cost, I need to imagine that, this derives from Warriors being able to get drops a go-go....

If the cost for Rewards was set at a lower number, to be in line with players who can "scrape" 5 or 6 drops an hour, then Warriors, with their much higher drops rate, would be able to get tons of these Rewards....

Unfortunately, by setting then the Rewards' cost so that Warriors cannot get "too many", with their much higher drops rate, the "other" Templates, having a much lower drops' rate, have it really hard to be able to earn the nicer and costlier Rewards.

That is why, to my opinion, it is wrong to be fine with other Templates having a much lower drops' rate as compared to Warriors...

It is a gross imbalance, and, to my opinion, if should get fixed, somehow.

Pawain · October 2021

@popps Lets go with your kill paragon get drop, I'd have a thousand by now. On my tamers LOL.

If it were just for Balrons my tamers would just have 500. My warrior has not got 500 yet.

Stop being jealous of others that are more efficient at getting drops. Those who are getting more are bypassing paragons and are not who we should emulate.

popps · October 2021

Pawain said:

I got 12 drops that hour and was killing things as fast as I could. I also do not see the 60 drops per hour players brag about.

Try it again, but this time, with a Dexer using 2,100 Luck and also using a Store bought Potion of Fortune and then let us know how close to those 60 drops in that 1 hour you can get....

Pawain · October 2021

popps said:

Pawain said:

I got 12 drops that hour and was killing things as fast as I could. I also do not see the 60 drops per hour players brag about.

Try it again, but this time, with a Dexer using 2,100 Luck and also using a Store bought Potion of Fortune and then let us know how close to those 60 drops in that 1 hour you can get....

I use a macer. Would never be able to make a suit that had luck and have the stamina needed for a War Hammer.

I do not choose to mess with a luck suit. So therefor I get less drops? Or they are doing what I said and avoiding paragons, I kinda like the challenge. All the high drop people are on shards that have working doors.

We make choices and we accept the results. Try that instead of wanting your cook to get drops cause they made blackrock stew.

McDougle · October 2021

popps said:

Wrac said:

I didn't start this thread as an effort to point out any level of imbalance between classes. I know its a sore point for many players, and I do sympathize, but it wasn't the point of my post. This was an effort to point out design flaws that keep a significant portion of the player community from having the same opportunity to enjoy the game (unless hiding or death runs are your idea of enjoyment). I fully admit I was baiting the melee community a little with the suggestion of no mounts. The logic does apply though. Put everyone on equal footing. (sorry, couldn't help myself )

I see the same threads on the boards that were referenced above, players getting 60+ drops in an hour... good for them. I can scrape about 5 or 6 drops per hour as a 6x 120 tamer and I'm fine with that. I've got melee characters that I'm sure if I dusted them off would get more drops that the tamer, but I like taming. That's what I choose to play and I'll live with the consequences of not getting as large a slice of the pie, I just want an opportunity to sit at the table. Even with a zero slot mount you could argue tamers are still disadvantaged because the pet wont run the same speed. As a community though, I think we'd much rather deal with that problem than no mount at all.

This was an effort to point out design flaws that keep a significant portion of the player community from having the same opportunity to enjoy the game (unless hiding or death runs are your idea of enjoyment).

And what would this "Design Flaw" be, if I may ask, if not an imbalance in the game ?

I mean, by Design, you have 1 Template being able to be largely more effective as other templates, and this would not be an imbalance, by Design ?

Go figure....

I see the same threads on the boards that were referenced above, players getting 60+ drops in an hour... good for them. I can scrape about 5 or 6 drops per hour as a 6x 120 tamer and I'm fine with that.

Well, to my opinion, it is wrong to be fine with scraping much less drops on a Template other then a Warrior...

And you know why ?

Because if the Rewards are set with a given (high) cost, I need to imagine that, this derives from Warriors being able to get drops a go-go....

If the cost for Rewards was set at a lower number, to be in line with players who can "scrape" 5 or 6 drops an hour, then Warriors, with their much higher drops rate, would be able to get tons of these Rewards....

Unfortunately, by setting then the Rewards' cost so that Warriors cannot get "too many", with their much higher drops rate, the "other" Templates, having a much lower drops' rate, have it really hard to be able to earn the nicer and costlier Rewards.

That is why, to my opinion, it is wrong to be fine with other Templates having a much lower drops' rate as compared to Warriors...

It is a gross imbalance, and, to my opinion, if should get fixed, somehow.

Ok so i see how popps needs this to work first my bard must come in and disco them then and only then would tamers come and weaken them before the warriors were released after the battle item id experts open the corpses at which time everyone receives a drop

Seth · October 2021

Wrac said:

Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants..

No, It's not and I think you understand that, but you just can't stand the idea that someone would dare to contradict you.

I suggested all mounted combat or all combat on foot... didnt attack any other templates.

You wrote:
The big issue I’m facing is that quite a few times while I’m hunting a hallway or side room, here comes melee player X on horseback running at Mach 3 pulling paragons right to me.
—-

Please try to be concise and not be so popp-long-winded and state your point. There is no prize for longest post.

You want to use a human tamer with obviously 5 slot pet so you can’t mount. Then instead of asking for what you need you asked for other templates to be brought down to the same level to equalise the playing field. This is not selfish then what. It is so popp-like and repeating like a broken record for past events.

For the champspawn, please BAN tamers or forbid them to bring Pets because the Champspawn boss are so Anti-warrior.

Seth · October 2021

For any vet players it should be obvious why the events are designed not to let you stay in the comfort in one location and mine your way 24/7. This happened during Treasures of Tokuno.

The new system favours anyone who keep moving around quickly and clear spawns like the classic champspawn. Some guys still parked their pets in a single room while they watched Netflix but do not expect a good drop rate.

Typically I can get up to 8 or 10 drops an hour without luck statue and 500 luck on my gear. This is active playing by running around and getting chased by Paragons, or luring them and dying many times in the process.

Or someone who prefers to macro attended or sit around relax watching movies while looking at the screen will earn slower. All kill, all kill, all kill *munch pop corn*.

TXEggplant · October 2021

Larisa said:

I keep saying that the game hates my tamer...she has more problems then any tamer I know...I think it's because of the blackrock..I seriously do.... she's had issues ever since.

I had the blackrock fever too and now I carry a little piece to remind me of it. They say it's just a totem but ... it gives me a sense of security

TXEggplant · October 2021

Everyone gets overwhelmed at some point in Hyloth right now and everyone drags something somewhere someone else doesn't really want it to be or especially NEED it to be. I'll be working with another mage or a tamer to just kind of hang in one spot and here comes a melee player running with an urgency we all know. Oh look, this time it's a tamer. Or another mage. Or whatever. And I invis or just turn to the wall and hold my breath as a para anything goes by ... If I don't see it far enough in advance to get a spell ready ... I'm in for some pain!! LOL!

The only way to keep things in control to to communicate with the other players. There is always going to be some jerk who wants to farm when and where they want to farm but a well-organized group and counter that.

Petra_Fyde · October 2021

My thoughts are, is it the design? or the players? Personally I lean towards 'players'. I'm playing on my oldest character, the one who's name I use here. She's a warrior. Do I run past someone who is trying to fight a paragon and drag it away? no. What I do is, if they look to be struggling, I stop by them and join in, taking some of the pressure off and lessening the chance, if the other player is a tamer, of the paragon re-targeting them instead of the pet. Mostly they'll reciprocate and drop a heal on me if the pet doesn't need it. If they don't need help, I turn around and go the other way.
I can't kill a paragon balron alone, but I'll wade in if there's someone around who seems willing to back me up a bit. Not an organised group, just a player who'll help.

There have been times when I've been fighting something and someone has dragged other stuff to me. That's mostly when I die, or when it's my own silly fauit, like forgetting to re-cast protection after the last death. With protection I may have survived the 2 paragon hell hounds that were following the mage who ran up next to me and then invised. I'd forgotten, so I died.

Mostly when folk run towing a paragon, if I stand absolutely still, not even swinging a weapon, they'll run straight by.

I don't leave my dead swampy littering up the dungeon. I have it on a pet ball, when I rez, I summon it. sometimes there's a tamer at the entrance who will rez it for me. If not I go home and either log in a tamer on a second account or use a potion on it. I keep an insured dragon barding deed in my pack for when the current one breaks.

Conclussion: The experience is a lot more pleasurable when I, and others, don't play selfishly. I help folk where I can, they notice and then help me. We all have more fun.

McDougle · October 2021

If there's a way they could tone the spawn rate to # of people in and out of dungeon so that on the Origins and Bajas etc we don't face the same spawn rate as the pac,cats etc.

Larisa · October 2021

I just wish that some people on Origin would actually listen and help. There are some who do but in the dungeon? It's every man for themselves.

(Thank you for the PS's by the way!)

I say all the time if you can't kill a paragon balron, don't kill the normal ones...lock em up in a room somewhere...I'll throw a heal on someone runnin past me, I tried to help a certain archer the other day at the maze part from lvl 1 to lvl 2...there was a paragon deamon in there which I can kill no problem. My pet wanted to eat everything behind that door lol but I did the All Stop, All Stay before I was going to open the door...here comes this archer (Who's bones I find a LOT in the cemetery) she flings an arrow at the paragon and runs off, everything else comes out and kills my pet because it got overwhelmed and I was just trying to help and she was just being greedy and wanted the paragon.

Which is why I am a solo player now.

Riner · October 2021

popps said:

There is one type of a Template, the Warrior, in various variations, which rules it all, getting drops a go-go (I heard of someone with a Dexer, using the Store bought Potion, getting 60 drops in 1 hour...) and then, all of the others, including Tamers as well as other Templates, who lag behind, getting the left overs from Warriors if there is too many around, or having to play at off hours when Warriors are not around.....
@popps this statement really bothers me as it is so insanely inflated that it has to be made up. Rather that is by the mysterious "someone" or by you it lacks any creditability. I have been using a warrior and two Store bought Potions a day since the beginning. I average 20 drops an hour with a high of 25. Is it possible someone has gotten more - sure, but really do you expect anyone to believe 60 drops an hour? That statement does more to destroy any hint of honesty your posts could have then it does to support your view.

McDougle · October 2021

More ps on way just couldn't find them

popps · October 2021

Riner said:

popps said:

There is one type of a Template, the Warrior, in various variations, which rules it all, getting drops a go-go (I heard of someone with a Dexer, using the Store bought Potion, getting 60 drops in 1 hour...) and then, all of the others, including Tamers as well as other Templates, who lag behind, getting the left overs from Warriors if there is too many around, or having to play at off hours when Warriors are not around.....
@ popps this statement really bothers me as it is so insanely inflated that it has to be made up. Rather that is by the mysterious "someone" or by you it lacks any creditability. I have been using a warrior and two Store bought Potions a day since the beginning. I average 20 drops an hour with a high of 25. Is it possible someone has gotten more - sure, but really do you expect anyone to believe 60 drops an hour? That statement does more to destroy any hint of honesty your posts could have then it does to support your view.

@Riner

It was mentioned by someone who plays Atlantic, on a popular Discord channel that some Ultima Online players use.

And, actually, the number used was " 60+ " ......

Victim_Of_Siege · October 2021

They got 60+, in the snow, uphill, both ways.

McDougle · October 2021

Picture on stratics someone with 1k

Wrac · October 2021

Seth said:

Wrac said:

Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants..

No, It's not and I think you understand that, but you just can't stand the idea that someone would dare to contradict you.

I suggested all mounted combat or all combat on foot... didnt attack any other templates.

You wrote:
The big issue I’m facing is that quite a few times while I’m hunting a hallway or side room, here comes melee player X on horseback running at Mach 3 pulling paragons right to me.
—-

Nobody is forcing you to open or continue to read this thread, just saying. I even started with a warning that it was a long post.

To your last comment about banning tamers... below is a you tube link to a sub 17 minute solo champ spawn... Rikktor. Spoiler alert, not a tamer. I'm five pages deep of videos showing sampire solo clears, one archer... no tamers. None. I'm not saying a tamer cant do it, of course they can, but to say champs are slanted toward tamers is preposterous.

Hope this post was short enough for you. Enjoy the video.

Wrac · October 2021

McDougle said:

Picture on stratics someone with 1k

Search "treasures of Hythloth 1 hour challenge on youtube.
Sampire on yamato using a potion of fortune, 58 drops in one hour. Video was posted October 5 so one day into the event. Realistically at that rate one weekend could get a sampire to 1k drops.

popps · October 2021

Wrac said:

McDougle said:

Picture on stratics someone with 1k

Search "treasures of Hythloth 1 hour challenge on youtube.
Sampire on yamato using a potion of fortune, 58 drops in one hour. Video was posted October 5 so one day into the event. Realistically at that rate one weekend could get a sampire to 1k drops.

So, the question that comes up is, when the Developers decide the "cost" for the Rewards, are they cosidering these players using Warriors who can get 60 Treasures of Artifact drops in 1 hour, or do they consider those with other templates who struggle to get 5 to 10 drops in 1 hour ?

If they set the cost for the Rewards towards the lower end, to meet the largest majority of UO players "lower" ability to get drops, then, there is the risk that these players being able to get 60+ drops in an hour, would be able to claim way too many Rewards....

If they, instead, set the cost of Rewards as high, so as to limit the number of Rewards which these players using Warriors with a rate of 60+ drops in an hour can get, they basically make these Rewards hardly obtainable by all of the other UO players, using other Templates, who cannot match these drops' rates at all.

See the imbalance ?

It would be much better, to my opinion, if the "earning rate" for Treasures of Artifact drops, was to be, by Design, more "equalized" across the various Templates in some way.

This way, it would be much easier to be able to then set the cost for Rewards, without risking to make them either too easily obtainable by some players, or impossible or too hard to get by some other players.

@Kyronix , this is a Design question about what I think is a Design imbalance. As a Designer of the game, what do you think should then be, the proper way to address this problem for future Treasures of Events ?

Pawain · October 2021

@popps you said you made a warrior. Do you get 60 drops per hour. I don't on any of mine. I bet the video shows all the Balrons locked away also. Someone is better than you at being selfish. Accept it and move along.

popps · October 2021

Pawain said:

@ popps you said you made a warrior. Do you get 60 drops per hour. I don't on any of mine. I bet the video shows all the Balrons locked away also. Someone is better than you at being selfish. Accept it and move along.

Whether me or you cannot reach that drop rate, now, is not relevant....

What is relevant is, that some did.

Why ?

Because there is always someone who first breaks the ice, so to speak, and then, all of the others follow suit.

Take Sampires, there was a day in Ultima Online when they were non-existant.... then, someone made one, and saw how succesfull it was....

Today, we can see them all over the place, andall of their variations....

So, whether you and me, now, cannot reach the 60 drops an hour, does not mean that, for next Treasures of Event, a whole lot of players will be able to.... following suit with those who now have "broken the ice ", so to speak....

Which, to my opinion, does involve a Design problem....

The Designers need to set a cost for Rewards.... that is obvious..... yet, if there is such a disparity in the earning rate for Treasures of Artifact drops among playersusing different Templates, how on earth can they set the cost for Rewards in a way that it is nor too low for some (those with a higher drop rate), but neither too high for some others (those with a lower drop rate) ?

When different Templates have such a disparity in the ability to get drops, to my opinion, it becomes a real issue to set a "fair" cost for Rewards....

The way I see it, the best way to address this, should be to more "equalize" different templates' ability to get drops. Then, setting the cost of Rewards should no longer risk being too easy for some using a given Template, or too difficult for others using a different Template, to earn.

Pawain · October 2021

popps said:

Pawain said:

@ popps you said you made a warrior. Do you get 60 drops per hour. I don't on any of mine. I bet the video shows all the Balrons locked away also. Someone is better than you at being selfish. Accept it and move along.

Whether me or you cannot reach that drop rate, now, is not relevant....

What is relevant is, that some did.

Why ?

Because there is always someone who first breaks the ice, so to speak, and then, all of the others follow suit.

Take Sampires, there was a day in Ultima Online when they were non-existant.... then, someone made one, and saw how succesfull it was....

Today, we can see them all over the place, andall of their variations....

So, whether you and me, now, cannot reach the 60 drops an hour, does not mean that, for next Treasures of Event, a whole lot of players will be able to.... following suit with those who now have "broken the ice ", so to speak....

Which, to my opinion, does involve a Design problem....

The Designers need to set a cost for Rewards.... that is obvious..... yet, if there is such a disparity in the earning rate for Treasures of Artifact drops among playersusing different Templates, how on earth can they set the cost for Rewards in a way that it is nor too low for some (those with a higher drop rate), but neither too high for some others (those with a lower drop rate) ?

When different Templates have such a disparity in the ability to get drops, to my opinion, it becomes a real issue to set a "fair" cost for Rewards....

The way I see it, the best way to address this, should be to more "equalize" different templates' ability to get drops. Then, setting the cost of Rewards should no longer risk being too easy for some using a given Template, or too difficult for others using a different Template, to earn.

They broke the ice using a sampire. There are hundreds who have them. Why are they not getting the same drops? Stop worrying about something a handful are doing. You do know that many UO players have 10+ Plates. Do you? UO is entertainment, when it stops being that, find a new game or go to a movie instead.

What do you want the devs to do? Make it so we get one drop an hour? While the ones who use the game mechanics to the best advantage get 10? I'd rather keep my 5 per hour and 10 with luck statue.

popps · October 2021

Pawain said:

What do you want the devs to do? Make it so we get one drop an hour? While the ones who use the game mechanics to the best advantage get 10? I'd rather keep my 5 per hour and 10 with luck statue.

This is, or I should better say, it has become, after the Age of Shadows, a game increasingly dependant on items.

Players play for items, items are what keep a lot of players maintain interest in the game.

These "Treasures of" Events, are all about items, IMHO.

They are, at least to my viewing, a rinse and repeat, repetitive killing of MoBs in order to get drops which in turn, permit to players to get Rewards. Items....

Hence, these Events are ALL about the Rewards, pretty much.

And the Rewards need to be assigned a cost for players to claim them.

Yet, with so much a large disparity in drops' rate among different Templates, when setting the cost for Rewards it could either be set too high, not to have those players who have a high drop rate be able to get them a go-go, by the tons, but this would cause to players using Templates that are not so effective to then be incapacitated to get the rewards which they would like, or set the Rewards cost at a more reasonable number of drops to help out those players using Templates disadvantaged to get drops to be able to get their Rewards, but this would then see those players using Templates with a much higher drop rate, to be able to get lots and lots of these Rewards.

Like it or not, it is an imbalance which, to my opinion, stems from the Design of these Events which, evidently, favour particularly 1 type of a Template in being able to get a much higher drop rate of these Treasures of Artifacts.

What would I want the Developers to do ?

Simply, to find a way to close this imbalance GAP in between different Templates being used and have Events which, moreless, will make it so that, using different Templates, would not result in such a big difference in the rate of drops which a player can get.

This way, the cost set for the Rewards, would be more equally reachable by any and all players, regardless of what Template they were to use, to participate to the Events.

That is at least how I see it.

Pawain · October 2021

Whaa whaa whaa I did a luck hour and only got 10 drops on my Melee toon. Devs hurry and fix this! Someone else gets 60 drops and hour. I avoided all the Balrons and just killed stuff as fast as I could for an hour It is not fair I did not get 60 drops, O whoa is me!!

Make a clicky for drops so I can get everything 50 times!

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Dynamic events, paragons, and mounted combat

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