Dynamic events, paragons, and mounted combat

Seth

Wrac said:

McDougle said:

Picture on stratics someone with 1k 

Search "treasures of Hythloth 1 hour challenge on youtube.
Sampire on yamato using a potion of fortune, 58 drops in one hour.  Video was posted October 5 so one day into the event.  Realistically at that rate one weekend could get a sampire to 1k drops.

The problem is potion of fortune, not the mounted warrior.

Seth

Wrac said:

Seth said:

Wrac said:

Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants..  

No, It's not and I think you understand that, but you just can't stand the idea that someone would dare to contradict you.

I suggested all mounted combat or all combat on foot... didnt attack any other templates.    

 You wrote:
The big issue I’m facing is that quite a few times while I’m hunting a hallway or side room, here comes melee player X on horseback running at Mach 3 pulling paragons right to me.
—-

Nobody is forcing you to open or continue to read this thread, just saying.  I even started with a warning that it was a long post.  

To your last comment about banning tamers... below is a you tube link to a sub 17 minute solo champ spawn... Rikktor.  Spoiler alert, not a tamer. I'm five pages deep of videos showing sampire solo clears, one archer... no tamers.  None.  I'm not saying a tamer cant do it, of course they can, but to say champs are slanted toward tamers is preposterous.

Hope this post was short enough for you.  Enjoy the video.




 

So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

We all know what sampire can do, which is why we spent so much time and resources building it over the years. All we are doing now is stop anyone trying to delete what the game designed and let us do. 

Before I built my warrior just 5 years ago, I was 30% mage and 70% tamer user. We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining. I have both gargoyle and human tamer with several 5 slots Cu and Triton but we don’t even both complaining. We all have 4x bards, thieves and ninjas and we know when to use each template. Have you played mmorpg before or are you into tamers only? 

This is a forum and its is for users to read. If you don’t write for others to read in mind then please post elsewhere or create your own blog or forum. I am not the only one complaining about long popp posts. 

Wrac

Pawain said:

Whaa whaa whaa I did a luck hour and only got 10 drops on my Melee toon.  Devs hurry and fix this!  Someone else gets 60 drops and hour.  I avoided all the Balrons and just killed stuff as fast as I could for an hour It is not fair I did not get 60 drops, O whoa is me!!

Make a clicky for drops so I can get everything 50 times!

More condescension and bullying because you don’t agree with another players’ opinion.  Very mature. 

Here’s a thread on this board where you admit you avoided hyping the Balron Bone armor for fear they would antique it, but I’m sure you’re being completely honest about those ten drops during luck hour.  
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9559/balron-bone-armor-why-bother#latest

Wrac

Seth said:

So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

My only mention of sampires, other than my original suggestion that tamers be allowed a mount and still have access to a five slot pet, was in reply to the repeated and unnecessary attacks posted here, primarily by you and one other poster.  As long as you keep attacking, I’ll keep defending.

Seth

Wrac said:

Seth said:

So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

My only mention of sampires, other than my original suggestion that tamers be allowed a mount and still have access to a five slot pet, was in reply to the repeated and unnecessary attacks posted here, primarily by you and one other poster.  As long as you keep attacking, I’ll keep defending.

We are not attacking, but contributing constructively as to why you should not make everyone run on foot in Hythloth. It is fine to accept defeat and become a sour grape and complain about others attacking you when you lost the argument.

Alright, I will stay out of this thread unless you have a positive counter-argument to why the Dev should change the event so drastically in your favour - without comparing and attacking other gamer's templates in the first place. 

Yui_Zii_Ariya

Forget ToT, forget drops and drop rates, forget item cost, this boils down to one single factor... which template can kill fastest.

This is not just a UO issue, this is across almost every MMO known to man.  There is always a cookie cutter class that can AoE farm spawns/dungeons etc.

Achieving balance across all classes is a near impossible task and very few MMOs (if any) have ever achieved it.  It's delusional to think the devs can just click their fingers and make everything balanced.

I don't have the solution and from reading this topic, no one else has any 'workable' solutions that aren't flawed or completely one-sided either.

Like every other MMO you can either.. play the class you love to play which is possibly less efficient or.. You adapt and go with the cookie cutter and reap the rewards.  Your choice.

Wrac

Seth said:

We are not attacking, but contributing constructively 

"tamers hide behind pets"- You.
"Ban tamers from champs" - You.
I'm surprised if this is your idea of constructive.

After the "ban tamers" post, I replied with the Rikktor 17 minute solo video.  Wasn't meant to tear down sampires, but to illustrate that you were wrong about champs favoring tamers.  How else would you like me to have made that point?

Now... If we can swing back to the crux of my original post, can anyone tell me how it would imbalance the game to allow human/elf tamers to use a five slot pet and still move at the same speed as every other template in the game?  Unless I missed it, I still haven't seen a single post addressing that.

Seth

Wrac said:

Seth said:

We are not attacking, but contributing constructively 

"tamers hide behind pets"- You.
"Ban tamers from champs" - You.
I'm surprised if this is your idea of constructive.

Yes, those are counters to your first attack in the original post:

 Being a non gargoyle tamer using a 5 slot pet means I am on foot at all times. The big issue I’m facing is that quite a few times while I’m hunting a hallway or side room, here comes melee player X on horseback running at Mach 3 pulling paragons right to me! - You

3. Don’t allow mounted combat within the dungeon at all - You

Pawain

Wrac said:

Pawain said:

Whaa whaa whaa I did a luck hour and only got 10 drops on my Melee toon.  Devs hurry and fix this!  Someone else gets 60 drops and hour.  I avoided all the Balrons and just killed stuff as fast as I could for an hour It is not fair I did not get 60 drops, O whoa is me!!

Make a clicky for drops so I can get everything 50 times!

More condescension and bullying because you don’t agree with another players’ opinion.  Very mature. 

Here’s a thread on this board where you admit you avoided hyping the Balron Bone armor for fear they would antique it, but I’m sure you’re being completely honest about those ten drops during luck hour.  
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9559/balron-bone-armor-why-bother#latest

Sorry, unlike you I don't make up stuff.  I guess I am just not as good as others that can use the same template and get more drops.  Most likely because I have very slow reflexes and I use like 2 macros when others probably use more.

I was disappointed in just 10 but last night I got 12.  Which is as many as I got when I use my 1150 luck in the other 4 dynamic dungeons.  They seem consistent to me.  I do like this one because it has more spawn.  There was a lot of running around and looking for targets in Wildfire.  This dungeon has enough spawn to stay on one floor and kill kill kill.

Yes I was concerned the armor would be antique so I did not want to get my hopes up.  Is that a problem? The last dungeon had antique items.  The guy I used tonight is wearing it.  I really like the extra HP it has.  Would be nice if they made arms and gorget with the same stats.

I am quite happy with the 272 points I have at the moment.  There is still another 40 days or so.
I have the deco suits I want and I have bought the deco items.  The pentagram has moving graphics, it is sweet deco.  I would like 2 more Epaulets and 2 more Bone chests.  And I do need 2 more Boots, those are always useful.  Ill be quite busy and having fun with just 10 drops per hour.
I used my Fencer last night for a while.

On LS the drops are selling for 5M each still. Very good for a new or returning player if they want gold instead of items. 

Seth

Yui_Zii_Ariya said:

Forget ToT, forget drops and drop rates, forget item cost, this boils down to one single factor... which template can kill fastest.

This is not just a UO issue, this is across almost every MMO known to man.  There is always a cookie cutter class that can AoE farm spawns/dungeons etc.

Achieving balance across all classes is a near impossible task and very few MMOs (if any) have ever achieved it.  It's delusional to think the devs can just click their fingers and make everything balanced.

I don't have the solution and from reading this topic, no one else has any 'workable' solutions that aren't flawed or completely one-sided either.

Like every other MMO you can either.. play the class you love to play which is possibly less efficient or.. You adapt and go with the cookie cutter and reap the rewards.  Your choice.

Yes, adapt to the gameplay instead of trying to modify the game to one's own advantage. How I wish the Event boss can be changed. 

The poor mounted warrior was running away from Paragons and happened to disturb the OP in his sweet spot standing there eating popcorn watching his pet all kill. The game is all about speed and moving around kill more monsters, and he just want us all to go on foot and slow us down. All he cares is the few Paragon that runs fast and someone running for his life who happen to cross his path. Then he asked to give paragons dismount ability and make everyone go on foot. 

Slower kills, lower drop rate per hour, all because someone insists on playing human tamer on foot and he cannot run. 

Pawain

^Yup ^

popps

Seth said:

So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

We all know what sampire can do, which is why we spent so much time and resources building it over the years. All we are doing now is stop anyone trying to delete what the game designed and let us do. 

Before I built my warrior just 5 years ago, I was 30% mage and 70% tamer user. We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining. I have both gargoyle and human tamer with several 5 slots Cu and Triton but we don’t even both complaining. We all have 4x bards, thieves and ninjas and we know when to use each template. Have you played mmorpg before or are you into tamers only? 

This is a forum and its is for users to read. If you don’t write for others to read in mind then please post elsewhere or create your own blog or forum. I am not the only one complaining about long popp posts. 

 We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining.

The point, to my opinion, is not that everyone can make a Warrior and go farm at ease....

The point is, that one of the strengths of Ultima Online, has always been its diversity of Templates and the ability to see varied Templates around.

Yet, if ONE Template, the Warrior, be it a Sampire, a Dragoon, an ABC Archer, a "new" Sampire or what other variation of a Warrior, can be, by the Design of the game, so much more succesfull as all of the other Templates that there are, this diversity goes down the drains because then, nost players just go and use Warriors for their gameplay, because, and by far, way more effective...

I have said it many times, it is not a hatred against Warriors, but, rather, a matter of game BALANCE.

popps

Yui_Zii_Ariya said:

Forget ToT, forget drops and drop rates, forget item cost, this boils down to one single factor... which template can kill fastest.

This is not just a UO issue, this is across almost every MMO known to man.  There is always a cookie cutter class that can AoE farm spawns/dungeons etc.

Achieving balance across all classes is a near impossible task and very few MMOs (if any) have ever achieved it.  It's delusional to think the devs can just click their fingers and make everything balanced.

I don't have the solution and from reading this topic, no one else has any 'workable' solutions that aren't flawed or completely one-sided either.

Like every other MMO you can either.. play the class you love to play which is possibly less efficient or.. You adapt and go with the cookie cutter and reap the rewards.  Your choice.

Achieving balance across all classes is a near impossible task and very few MMOs (if any) have ever achieved it.  It's delusional to think the devs can just click their fingers and make everything balanced.

Well, while I can see how "splitting a hair " might be a difficullt goal to reach, working towards at least a "decent" balance in between the various Templates in their ability to get drops, should still be aimed to...

And there could be various ways for the Developers to try to reach that balanced out goal....

For example, they could adjust the code so that it "sees" what skills are being used to do the kills, and give a penalty to a skill that kills too fast, and a bonus to a skill that kills too slowly, when it comes to decide whether that Template is or not awarded a Treasures of Artifact drop...

Sort of like worn Luck but, in this case, not dependant on the Luck factor but on the skill factor....

A Template uses a Weapon skill to kill faster ? Give them a penalty in their chances to get a drop because they can kill faster.

A Template uses a Pet and, thus, Animal Taming skill to kill but they can do it at a slower pace ? Give them a bonus in their chances to get a drop because they can kill slower.

And so do the same with Bards, Rogues, etc.

Sure, it would need some testing to "iron out" the various differences in the ability of different Templates to get kills with different skills or, in the case of Rogues, to be able to steal or get drops from hidden chests and what not but, in the end, I would imagine that a somewhat balanced out "equilibrium " could be achieved to moreless make sure that different Templates would moreless get the same drops in the same amount of time (say 1 hour....) even though their killing rates differ much.

This is only 1 example, I would imagine that a Developer could come up with other, better ways to achieve such a balance among Templates in their drops' rates....

popps

Seth said:

Yui_Zii_Ariya said:

Forget ToT, forget drops and drop rates, forget item cost, this boils down to one single factor... which template can kill fastest.

This is not just a UO issue, this is across almost every MMO known to man.  There is always a cookie cutter class that can AoE farm spawns/dungeons etc.

Achieving balance across all classes is a near impossible task and very few MMOs (if any) have ever achieved it.  It's delusional to think the devs can just click their fingers and make everything balanced.

I don't have the solution and from reading this topic, no one else has any 'workable' solutions that aren't flawed or completely one-sided either.

Like every other MMO you can either.. play the class you love to play which is possibly less efficient or.. You adapt and go with the cookie cutter and reap the rewards.  Your choice.

Yes, adapt to the gameplay instead of trying to modify the game to one's own advantage. How I wish the Event boss can be changed. 

The poor mounted warrior was running away from Paragons and happened to disturb the OP in his sweet spot standing there eating popcorn watching his pet all kill. The game is all about speed and moving around kill more monsters, and he just want us all to go on foot and slow us down. All he cares is the few Paragon that runs fast and someone running for his life who happen to cross his path. Then he asked to give paragons dismount ability and make everyone go on foot. 

Slower kills, lower drop rate per hour, all because someone insists on playing human tamer on foot and he cannot run. 

Yes, adapt to the gameplay instead of trying to modify the game to one's own advantage.

It is NOT to one's own advantage to seek out Balance for the various Templates out there but, rather, to ALL players' advantage....

Asking to the Developers to bring Tamers, Bards, Rogues and other Templates which might be used to get these Treasures of Artifact drops to the rate that Warriors can, or, if one prefers, to "drop down" Warriors to a "common denominator " as far as a drop rate in a given time goes with the other Templates possible to get Treasures of Artifact drops, if notseeking out one's own advantage, to my viewing, but, rather, asking for a better Balance in the game which would be in the best interest of all players since it would defend diversity and variety of Templates within it.

At least, that is how I see it.

Violet

So one of the things I've  learned from this thread is Pawain still doesn't understand a year later that paragons in Ilshenar are different than Treasures paragons.  

Seth said:

So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

We all know what sampire can do, which is why we spent so much time and resources building it over the years. All we are doing now is stop anyone trying to delete what the game designed and let us do. 

Before I built my warrior just 5 years ago, I was 30% mage and 70% tamer user. We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining. I have both gargoyle and human tamer with several 5 slots Cu and Triton but we don’t even both complaining. We all have 4x bards, thieves and ninjas and we know when to use each template. Have you played mmorpg before or are you into tamers only? 

This is a forum and its is for users to read. If you don’t write for others to read in mind then please post elsewhere or create your own blog or forum. I am not the only one complaining about long popp posts. 

Seth, condescension is not a good look on you. People often lash out when someone mentions balancing because they might have to learn something new and adapt.  I'm sorry to hear you are getting so few drops on this content with your Sampire.  You might want to examine your playstyle and/or template to maximize it better.  I know single melee warriors with no pocket bards or tandem warrior  pulling 50-60 an hour with a potion or 30 without.  Maybe ask around. I don't play a Sampire but I can pull in 40-50 an hour with a potion.

As for your constant dig regarding tamers and how much you have worked on your sampire: many tamers spend just as long if not longer with their characters or "weapons".  Does it take a sampire days to make one weapon?  What about finding the perfect weapon worthy of reforging?  Or have to spend hundreds of millions of gold  to complete that single weapon. Just because sampire gear CAN be expensive their investment into their character isn't more than a good tamer into theirs.

Tamers have been nerfed on this content much more than warriors.  Their pets do half damage unlike Sampires who still do full damage to paragons.  They are also on foot if they are human/elf, as are mystics if they want to use summons. They also cannot hide due to the instant reveal. 

I actually don't think Wrac's suggestion of everyone on foot is a bad one.  The removal of mounts would stop most luring in, people would only fight what they know they can handle and stop dumping problems in other's laps. If the concern is losing passive abilities from mounting (swampies, etc) then an alternative solution could be a forced walk while mounted in Treasure dungeons.  After all this would add to the immersion as you would not go galloping of into a dungeon at full speed, you would be more cautious.  You would adjust and you would probably pull in the same amount of drops after re-evaluating how you play treasures.  I don't think the dev's are looking to add this type of mechanic however, so your reaction is a bit unwarranted. 

That being said, I suggest you talk to more players in UO.  Not everyone has 7 characters fleshed out on the server they play, that's a very privileged comment to make that shows your lack of understanding of many of the UO player base, especially since the 7th character slot is a paid addon.  Many people who return come back to 1 or 2 characters or can only afford to gear 1 character and yes, some people only like playing one character.  So again, go out there and talk to more people.  Understand who actually plays this game (hint they rarely post here) 

If someone's answer to someone's complaint is "just make an x"  that's not a valid counter argument and just does a disservice to the game.  No, all templates will not preform equally, but when there is a huge gap in performance of dps templates, that is when balance needs to be looked at and adjusted.  Not all tamers are like Pawain sitting in a room while playing other characters/watching netflix.

popps

Violet said:

So one of the things I've  learned from this thread is Pawain still doesn't understand a year later that paragons in Ilshenar are different than Treasures paragons.  

Seth said:

So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

We all know what sampire can do, which is why we spent so much time and resources building it over the years. All we are doing now is stop anyone trying to delete what the game designed and let us do. 

Before I built my warrior just 5 years ago, I was 30% mage and 70% tamer user. We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining. I have both gargoyle and human tamer with several 5 slots Cu and Triton but we don’t even both complaining. We all have 4x bards, thieves and ninjas and we know when to use each template. Have you played mmorpg before or are you into tamers only? 

This is a forum and its is for users to read. If you don’t write for others to read in mind then please post elsewhere or create your own blog or forum. I am not the only one complaining about long popp posts. 

Seth, condescension is not a good look on you. People often lash out when someone mentions balancing because they might have to learn something new and adapt.  I'm sorry to hear you are getting so few drops on this content with your Sampire.  You might want to examine your playstyle and/or template to maximize it better.  I know single melee warriors with no pocket bards or tandem warrior  pulling 50-60 an hour with a potion or 30 without.  Maybe ask around. I don't play a Sampire but I can pull in 40-50 an hour with a potion.

As for your constant dig regarding tamers and how much you have worked on your sampire: many tamers spend just as long if not longer with their characters or "weapons".  Does it take a sampire days to make one weapon?  What about finding the perfect weapon worthy of reforging?  Or have to spend hundreds of millions of gold  to complete that single weapon. Just because sampire gear CAN be expensive their investment into their character isn't more than a good tamer into theirs.

Tamers have been nerfed on this content much more than warriors.  Their pets do half damage unlike Sampires who still do full damage to paragons.  They are also on foot if they are human/elf, as are mystics if they want to use summons. They also cannot hide due to the instant reveal. 

I actually don't think Wrac's suggestion of everyone on foot is a bad one.  The removal of mounts would stop most luring in, people would only fight what they know they can handle and stop dumping problems in other's laps. If the concern is losing passive abilities from mounting (swampies, etc) then an alternative solution could be a forced walk while mounted in Treasure dungeons.  After all this would add to the immersion as you would not go galloping of into a dungeon at full speed, you would be more cautious.  You would adjust and you would probably pull in the same amount of drops after re-evaluating how you play treasures.  I don't think the dev's are looking to add this type of mechanic however, so your reaction is a bit unwarranted. 

That being said, I suggest you talk to more players in UO.  Not everyone has 7 characters fleshed out on the server they play, that's a very privileged comment to make that shows your lack of understanding of many of the UO player base, especially since the 7th character slot is a paid addon.  Many people who return come back to 1 or 2 characters or can only afford to gear 1 character and yes, some people only like playing one character.  So again, go out there and talk to more people.  Understand who actually plays this game (hint they rarely post here) 

If someone's answer to someone's complaint is "just make an x"  that's not a valid counter argument and just does a disservice to the game.  No, all templates will not preform equally, but when there is a huge gap in performance of dps templates, that is when balance needs to be looked at and adjusted.  Not all tamers are like Pawain sitting in a room while playing other characters/watching netflix.

As for your constant dig regarding tamers and how much you have worked on your sampire: many tamers spend just as long if not longer with their characters or "weapons".  Does it take a sampire days to make one weapon?  What about finding the perfect weapon worthy of reforging?  Or have to spend hundreds of millions of gold  to complete that single weapon. Just because sampire gear CAN be expensive their investment into their character isn't more than a good tamer into theirs.

Absolutely well said and quoted for truth.

There is Tamers who have spent weeks, if not months, killing over and over and some more over the same tameable creature in the hope that one with a higher Intensity would spawn which they could then tame and make into a more effective pet.

I do not see this persistence and hard work as any different to what a Warrior might do in looking for their "best" weapon to use...

Tamers have been nerfed on this content much more than warriors.  Their pets do half damage unlike Sampires who still do full damage to paragons.  They are also on foot if they are human/elf, as are mystics if they want to use summons. They also cannot hide due to the instant reveal. 

Againt, very well said and quoted again for truth.

For some reasons, beyond my understanding, Tamers are considered the "all kill" Template for easy gameplay which HAS TO BE nerfed more then other Template.... because... reasons...

Well, it has been mentioned and there is videos out there, that using Third Party applications and scripts, Warriors can be used to a much more, largely much more AFK farming advantage as what Tamers might do.

Yet, it is Tamers the ones that get nerfed a go-go and most always end up with the short end of the stick....

All I am asking, is for some BALANCE among the various Templates in these Treasures of Events.

@Kyronix , is it something so terrible to ask for, to see some BALANCE in the Design of what the various Templates can get when it comes to drops' rates in these Treasures of Events ?

Yui_Zii_Ariya

popps said:

For example, they could adjust the code so that it "sees" what skills are being used to do the kills, and give a penalty to a skill that kills too fast, and a bonus to a skill that kills too slowly, when it comes to decide whether that Template is or not awarded a Treasures of Artifact drop...

That is ridiculous.  I think the devs would laugh their asses off if you proposed they code that.

popps said:

A Template uses a Weapon skill to kill faster ? Give them a penalty in their chances to get a drop because they can kill faster.

A Template uses a Pet and, thus, Animal Taming skill to kill but they can do it at a slower pace ? Give them a bonus in their chances to get a drop because they can kill slower.

My crafter can't kill as fast as your tamer, and I reeeeeally love and want to use my crafter during these events.

Can I propose that Mobs get nerfed and Tamers pets get nerfed and their kills get slowed down so my crafter can get as many drops as them?!?...

Penalize players for playing optimally?  Don't be ridiculous.

Mariah

1. Can we stop attacking each other please? Please refer to rule 1 of the Terms of Service listed below

2. I've watched the suggested video and there are a few things that should be taken into consideration before assuming other characters should be able to match it.

1. The player used the potion of fortune
2. The player was in the deepest part of the dungeon where creatures with the most fame are most abundant
3. There is no other player present at any time during the video.
4. I'm not sure how, and I'm full of admiration, but there have been videos for years showing players far exceeding the skill level of average players. The template used is only part of the equation, the skill of this player is exceptional.
   

I'm sure several players could match it, given the same circumstances and skill level, but most people are sharing the dungeon with others and don't have that luxury, nor this extraordinary level of game skill. Please be more realistic in your expectations and you will suffer less disappointment.

Seth

Violet said:

So one of the things I've  learned from this thread is Pawain still doesn't understand a year later that paragons in Ilshenar are different than Treasures paragons.  

Seth said:

So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

We all know what sampire can do, which is why we spent so much time and resources building it over the years. All we are doing now is stop anyone trying to delete what the game designed and let us do. 

Before I built my warrior just 5 years ago, I was 30% mage and 70% tamer user. We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining. I have both gargoyle and human tamer with several 5 slots Cu and Triton but we don’t even both complaining. We all have 4x bards, thieves and ninjas and we know when to use each template. Have you played mmorpg before or are you into tamers only? 

This is a forum and its is for users to read. If you don’t write for others to read in mind then please post elsewhere or create your own blog or forum. I am not the only one complaining about long popp posts. 

Seth, condescension is not a good look on you. People often lash out when someone mentions balancing because they might have to learn something new and adapt.  I'm sorry to hear you are getting so few drops on this content with your Sampire.  You might want to examine your playstyle and/or template to maximize it better.  I know single melee warriors with no pocket bards or tandem warrior  pulling 50-60 an hour with a potion or 30 without.  Maybe ask around. I don't play a Sampire but I can pull in 40-50 an hour with a potion.

As for your constant dig regarding tamers and how much you have worked on your sampire: many tamers spend just as long if not longer with their characters or "weapons".  Does it take a sampire days to make one weapon?  What about finding the perfect weapon worthy of reforging?  Or have to spend hundreds of millions of gold  to complete that single weapon. Just because sampire gear CAN be expensive their investment into their character isn't more than a good tamer into theirs.

Tamers have been nerfed on this content much more than warriors.  Their pets do half damage unlike Sampires who still do full damage to paragons.  They are also on foot if they are human/elf, as are mystics if they want to use summons. They also cannot hide due to the instant reveal. 

I actually don't think Wrac's suggestion of everyone on foot is a bad one.  The removal of mounts would stop most luring in, people would only fight what they know they can handle and stop dumping problems in other's laps. If the concern is losing passive abilities from mounting (swampies, etc) then an alternative solution could be a forced walk while mounted in Treasure dungeons.  After all this would add to the immersion as you would not go galloping of into a dungeon at full speed, you would be more cautious.  You would adjust and you would probably pull in the same amount of drops after re-evaluating how you play treasures.  I don't think the dev's are looking to add this type of mechanic however, so your reaction is a bit unwarranted. 

That being said, I suggest you talk to more players in UO.  Not everyone has 7 characters fleshed out on the server they play, that's a very privileged comment to make that shows your lack of understanding of many of the UO player base, especially since the 7th character slot is a paid addon.  Many people who return come back to 1 or 2 characters or can only afford to gear 1 character and yes, some people only like playing one character.  So again, go out there and talk to more people.  Understand who actually plays this game (hint they rarely post here) 

If someone's answer to someone's complaint is "just make an x"  that's not a valid counter argument and just does a disservice to the game.  No, all templates will not preform equally, but when there is a huge gap in performance of dps templates, that is when balance needs to be looked at and adjusted.  Not all tamers are like Pawain sitting in a room while playing other characters/watching netflix.

A optimal different template for a different quest. By the way, I have 3 tamers in 3 accounts and I have more pets than my one warrior who has only 6 weapons (6 slayers). I have 3 x pure mages and 3 x 4 x bards. For thieves, I have two. Bring it on, whatever the events they designed I am Fine. 

Alright, so you are saying Dev should make  dungeon crawl on foot. Let the other players decide, who knows the majority of players will vote in favor and Dev team would finally grant every template the ability to do champspawn, highseas, shadowguard, Doom. 

@Kyronix
They are asking to be fair for every template, so for every content in future please cater for every character type, for every type of events, dungeons, spawns. 

Unbelievable. It is not as if I am the only one playing and if everyone is happy to run on foot so be it. Let them see who in this thread suggested. I have stated my point clearly. 

popps

Mariah said:

1. Can we stop attacking each other please? Please refer to rule 1 of the Terms of Service listed below

2. I've watched the suggested video and there are a few things that should be taken into consideration before assuming other characters should be able to match it.

1. The player used the potion of fortune
2. The player was in the deepest part of the dungeon where creatures with the most fame are most abundant
3. There is no other player present at any time during the video.
4. I'm not sure how, and I'm full of admiration, but there have been videos for years showing players far exceeding the skill level of average players. The template used is only part of the equation, the skill of this player is exceptional.
   

I'm sure several players could match it, given the same circumstances and skill level, but most people are sharing the dungeon with others and don't have that luxury, nor this extraordinary level of game skill. Please be more realistic in your expectations and you will suffer less disappointment.

The template used is only part of the equation, the skill of this player is exceptional.

While the Template might be part of the equation, in a game where, by Design, "numbers" are quite a "lot" of that equation, when we have pets who, as Violet has remembered to us, have been had their damage halved , and on the other side we have Warriors who, instead, have the ability to use double slayers, +100% Damage Increase on their suit and, thus, are capable of delivering a hell of a lot of damage in no time, and at the same time they can also leech life, leech mana, leech stamina etc. etc. etc., I am very sorry, but I do not see "how" we can even discuss these different Templates being on an equal footing to start with.......

Tamers have been nerfed for too long, and too much, Warriors, instead, new item after new item, property after property, have been given plenty of tools and some more, to reach where they are now, the most efficient and effective Template to use for hunting, and by far.

And this, please allow me to be of my opinion, I consider not just a gross imbalance for the game, but one which can greatly hurt Ultima Online since it kills in players the desire to maintain that diversity of Templates which contributed to make Ultima Online a great game.

If Warriors, as a Template, can get the job done in 1/10th of the time as compared to other Templates, why would anyone, other then for fancyness, want to use any other Template to achieve something in the game if they could get the same results but in 1/10th of the time using a Warrior and variations of ?

McDougle

Isn't the real issue here no damage reduction available to gargoyles?? Until all races have equal access take your talk of template balance and go

Superfrog

popps said:

And this, please allow me to be of my opinion, I consider not just a gross imbalance for the game, but one which can greatly hurt Ultima Online since it kills in players the desire to maintain that diversity of Templates which contributed to make Ultima Online a great game.

If Warriors, as a Template, can get the job done in 1/10th of the time as compared to other Templates, why would anyone, other then for fancyness, want to use any other Template to achieve something in the game if they could get the same results but in 1/10th of the time using a Warrior and variations of ?

Citation needed, where is the data that proves this?  Because I have and play play a varied range of templates because you never know when that oddball template is going to be the best one for a new event. sure when these "Treasures Of" events come out i roll it down to a Sampire and a Tamer, but i have taken my ABC archer in there along with a Myst/Mage/Provo-Bard. I get drops on all of them and currently have in my limited play time (i probably have played an hour for 3-4 days a week since it started, accrued 250 or so drops that I am waiting to to get my suit sets before I turn in. Don't pretend you are speaking "for the little UO player" because you are simply put, not educated in uo enough to do that.

popps

Superfrog said:

popps said:

And this, please allow me to be of my opinion, I consider not just a gross imbalance for the game, but one which can greatly hurt Ultima Online since it kills in players the desire to maintain that diversity of Templates which contributed to make Ultima Online a great game.

If Warriors, as a Template, can get the job done in 1/10th of the time as compared to other Templates, why would anyone, other then for fancyness, want to use any other Template to achieve something in the game if they could get the same results but in 1/10th of the time using a Warrior and variations of ?

Citation needed, where is the data that proves this?  Because I have and play play a varied range of templates because you never know when that oddball template is going to be the best one for a new event. sure when these "Treasures Of" events come out i roll it down to a Sampire and a Tamer, but i have taken my ABC archer in there along with a Myst/Mage/Provo-Bard. I get drops on all of them and currently have in my limited play time (i probably have played an hour for 3-4 days a week since it started, accrued 250 or so drops that I am waiting to to get my suit sets before I turn in. Don't pretend you are speaking "for the little UO player" because you are simply put, not educated in uo enough to do that.

Citation needed, where is the data that proves this?

Simply logging in on one's own Shard of choice and going to a Champion Spawn or to the Dungeon Hythloth and have a look at what type of Template players use the most to get their Powerscrolls, the Treasures of Artifact drops, would let one see how Warriors, and their various variations, are by far "THE" most used Template, and for good reasons, because, Design decision after Design decision, it has been made the one Template that most efficiently and most quickly gets the job done.

Personally, while others may see this as a cool thing, I happen to see it as a gross imbalance which kills the diversity of playing much varied Templates in Ultima Online. Diversity, which contributed to help make Ultima Online a great game.

Again, other then fancyness , and the desire to play a Template different then a Warrior "for a change", why would a player want to play a Template that takes 10+ times more to get the same job as one could do using a Warrior or any of its variations, depending on the hunt at hand ?

McDougle

Remember when Cu's first came out and only elfs could tame and ride and how the hummies cried and cried...

Superfrog

popps said:

Superfrog said:

popps said:

And this, please allow me to be of my opinion, I consider not just a gross imbalance for the game, but one which can greatly hurt Ultima Online since it kills in players the desire to maintain that diversity of Templates which contributed to make Ultima Online a great game.

If Warriors, as a Template, can get the job done in 1/10th of the time as compared to other Templates, why would anyone, other then for fancyness, want to use any other Template to achieve something in the game if they could get the same results but in 1/10th of the time using a Warrior and variations of ?

Citation needed, where is the data that proves this?  Because I have and play play a varied range of templates because you never know when that oddball template is going to be the best one for a new event. sure when these "Treasures Of" events come out i roll it down to a Sampire and a Tamer, but i have taken my ABC archer in there along with a Myst/Mage/Provo-Bard. I get drops on all of them and currently have in my limited play time (i probably have played an hour for 3-4 days a week since it started, accrued 250 or so drops that I am waiting to to get my suit sets before I turn in. Don't pretend you are speaking "for the little UO player" because you are simply put, not educated in uo enough to do that.

Citation needed, where is the data that proves this?

Simply logging in on one's own Shard of choice and going to a Champion Spawn or to the Dungeon Hythloth and have a look at what type of Template players use the most to get their Powerscrolls, the Treasures of Artifact drops, would let one see how Warriors, and their various variations, are by far "THE" most used Template, and for good reasons, because, Design decision after Design decision, it has been made the one Template that most efficiently and most quickly gets the job done.

Personally, while others may see this as a cool thing, I happen to see it as a gross imbalance which kills the diversity of playing much varied Templates in Ultima Online. Diversity, which contributed to help make Ultima Online a great game.

Again, other then fancyness , and the desire to play a Template different then a Warrior "for a change", why would a player want to play a Template that takes 10+ times more to get the same job as one could do using a Warrior or any of its variations, depending on the hunt at hand ?

Again, where is your Proof, I see the same Characters playing when i am playing and they aren't all "Warriors".  There's a couple of Myst/Bards (could have more skills but i only see them utilize these skills). there's an archer that isn't in Vamp form and one that is, about 5 Sampires, a few tamers and a weaver/mage) they have been there when I have time to play on the 3 templates i have been taking in the dungeon. So there's your "Simply logging in on one's own Shard of choice and going to a Champion Spawn or to the Dungeon Hythloth and have a look at what type of Template players use the most" Again, where is YOUR proof that people only use Warrior types? Please refrain from trying to speak for others on this game until you learn a bit more about it. just because you cannot play a template to it's potential, doesn't mean the rest of us cannot, at least that's the way I see it . . .

Superfrog

McDougle said:

Remember when Cu's first came out and only elfs could tame and ride and how the hummies cried and cried...

Stupid Hummies, they need to remember that they taste good with Ketchup.

Seth

I was supposed to stay out if this thread, but suddenly I thought of an issue that is unfair to melee template when going on foot. 

Archer - shoot from far away. 
Mages - cast spell from far away. 
Tamer - all kill, pets can run as fast as a Paragon and attack the target. 

Omg, poor melee warrior have to run around in circles and before they can hit anything the monsters died. 

Alright, time to pull out my archer or mage for the dismounted dungeon crawl. 

Superfrog

Seth said:

I was supposed to stay out if this thread, but suddenly I thought of an issue that is unfair to melee template when going on foot. 

Archer - shoot from far away. 
Mages - cast spell from far away. 
Tamer - all kill, pets can run as fast as a Paragon and attack the target. 

Omg, poor melee warrior have to run around in circles and before they can hit anything the monsters died. 

Alright, time to pull out my archer or mage for the dismounted dungeon crawl. 

Probably best to stay out of it for now, I can feel @Rorschach sharpening his Supremely Accurate Indestructible Quill of Troll slaying in preparation of coming down fast and hard on Poops and myself.  

Seth

Superfrog said:

Seth said:

I was supposed to stay out if this thread, but suddenly I thought of an issue that is unfair to melee template when going on foot. 

Archer - shoot from far away. 
Mages - cast spell from far away. 
Tamer - all kill, pets can run as fast as a Paragon and attack the target. 

Omg, poor melee warrior have to run around in circles and before they can hit anything the monsters died. 

Alright, time to pull out my archer or mage for the dismounted dungeon crawl. 

Probably best to stay out of it for now, I can feel @ Rorschach sharpening his Supremely Accurate Indestructible Quill of Troll slaying in preparation of coming down fast and hard on Poops and myself.  

Yeah haha 

Yui_Zii_Ariya

Persistently whining about an imbalance fixes absolutely nothing (you know who you are).  Propose sensible well thought out, realistic and workable solutions and they can be debated.

I like my tamers as much as the next person but the constant.. "blah blah imbalanced... blah blah unfair... blah blah i want more drops..." is utterly pointless and will get you nowhere other than faster towards a lock!