Vendor Search: You listened before, so please, listen again.

13

Comments

  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,332
    edited February 2021

    The Irony. :)


    You guys have really buggered it all up now haven't you ! :D

  • SamaelSamael Posts: 23
    Cookie said:
    My solution would be 1 Vendor Seach for every player in the game, a central Vendor Search on it's own server that everyone from every shard can plug into.


    We all know that this will never happen, but most likely is the only thing that will keep new and returning players playing the game.
    As of today there is a huge unbalance between he who can move to other shards and who can't under the trade point of view.
    A central market hub would be beneficial to anybody, he who sells and he who buys and there are countless of ways it can be donw without affecting the owners of the shields, for example : a commission for the seller and item that appears in the backpack, or in the inventory of a particular npc ... without physically traveling to the sellers vendors and so on.

  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Marge said:
    VS isn't working on any shard I tried this morning and I usually have no problems - even on Atl. My guess is they had enough of the bitching and just turned it off.
    Then the data base was down due to maintenance.  I just did a run to every shard with my shard shields and the only shard I could not search was Atl.
  • dvviddvvid Posts: 849
    “My ShArD iS cLeArLy BeTtEr”

    These threads about VS would be more constructive if the dev team would just tell us what is up with the search and what their plans were to fix it. They did reveal to us after a long time they would make the error message more accurate. Okay that’s just the tiniest bit helpful but nothing is fixed in that. 

    Unless we actually know what is going on with this thing, we are going to keep getting these kinds of threads where people are going to go on and on about speculative reasoning behind the problem and now we’re even getting argumentative with each other. 

    Why can’t this dev team just give us some real info on this subject. Can we expect a fix any time soon? Are they looking into what their options are?  I hope they talk about it in the upcoming stream. 
  • TheoTheo Posts: 179
    Cookie said:

    Maybe all those players should not have moved to Atlantic? It is clear and obvious a database can ever only hold so much, and you've all overloaded it.

    Sorry. Can’t let this one go.  UO is not reaching the limits of database storage.  

    Facebook stores 300 million photos....a day.  And returns that pic of you and your cat in seconds.   They run one of the largest Hadoop clusters in the world.  

    Databases have no real practical limits with today’s technology.  However a poorly implemented DB even at small size can fail miserably.   

    The UO implementation of data storage is terribly lacking.  Not having the right filters causing nearly all searches to go text string is a killer and I’ll bet they haven’t tuned the shared memory a bit.  Probably using MySQL with out of the box configs. 

    The reason the third party sites worked is they had even a small inkling of how to run a database.  

    For the love of Mike I wish they would port this into Redshift and hire a DBA for a week and tune the queries and config.   I offered to help.  Just 20+ years managing the data of the largest companies in the world. The entire VS DB could effectively run on a laptop tuned properly. 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,904
    Cookie said:

    Vendor Search works perfectly on Europa.

    And every other shard.

    Except Atlantic.

    Maybe all those players should not have moved to Atlantic? It is clear and obvious a database can ever only hold so much, and you've all overloaded it.

    There are plenty of other servers for you to all play on, and get the benefits of a working Vendor Search.

    You would also benefit the entire game, by spreading players out, making other servers more alive.

    Shard transfers and trading would mean you could still get around to other shards to get the stuff you really want, it doesn't always have to be Atlantic.

    So in summary - this is a player problem, caused by a certain group of players, who have scored an own goal on themselves.

    I'm not having this issue, because I was not stupid enough to base myself on Atlantic. I saw this coming, I saw a whole host of issues coming, like over-farmed PvM spots etc.

    So stop whining, do something positive, you all managed to move to Atlantic in the first place, now move off it.

    Yeah they should encourage players to spread out all shards, remove shard bound items and promote cross shard trading. One world with many planets (shards). Isolation is bad thing. 
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • XrisXris Posts: 130
    If they set up a GoFundMe for VS I'd probably drop some $ in. They will lose customers eventually, people love this feature and seeing problems for months/ years on end is unacceptable. I've logged out many times when using VS to build suits (finding specific stats without it is insanely hard, or insanely expensive). Its a shame.
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 510
    This whole situation is merely a symptom of the larger problem. Why aren't the devs even bothering to respond to the numerous complaints. Much less actually FIXING it! @Kyronix @Mesanna @Bleak
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    KHAN said:
    This whole situation is merely a symptom of the larger problem. Why aren't the devs even bothering to respond to the numerous complaints. Much less actually FIXING it! @ Kyronix @ Mesanna @ Bleak
    What is truely sad is you can not complain to @Mesanna s boss because IMHO he really doesn't give a flying fart in space about UO and EA could care less as long as the subs stay up.  So once again UO is the bastard step child that nobody cares about.  @Mesanna you really need to say something to your player base or has it gotten to the point that you really do not give a shit about us anymore.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    what is it we want them to say ? promise to fix it ? sorry it can not be fixed ? the sad realty is no matter what they say they get flamed not a fanboy i complain loudly and often but there is really no point in them replying...
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    McDougle said:
    what is it we want them to say ? promise to fix it ? sorry it can not be fixed ? the sad realty is no matter what they say they get flamed not a fanboy i complain loudly and often but there is really no point in them replying...
    the truth would be fine good or bad but not responding is the same as saying I really could care less what you think so just shut your mouth and be thankful for what we have given you.
  • Maybe you should read the Newsletter.




    They will do SOME update, that will change the Too Vague message for something a little more informative like, Try again Later.
  • dvviddvvid Posts: 849
    Yeah that’s not a fix to the system just giving a potentially more accurate error message. 
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    dvvid said:
    Yeah that’s not a fix to the system just giving a potentially more accurate error message. 
    WELL SAID and if people accept that as a fix then they deserve what they get.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Vladimir said:
    Maybe you should read the Newsletter.




    They will do SOME update, that will change the Too Vague message for something a little more informative like, Try again Later.
    That is not a fix it is an excuse
  • MargeMarge Posts: 722
    edited February 2021
    I took Vladimir's post as sarcasm.

    Edited to add : Actually when I first read it, it gave me a sad chuckle. I pictured the search now button on the VS menu being replaced with Magic 8 Ball.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Marge said:
    Edited to add : Actually when I first read it, it gave me a sad chuckle. I pictured the search now button on the VS menu being replaced with Magic 8 Ball.
    LmFAO  TY
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,904
    edited February 2021
    King_Greg said:
    So when I suggested you separate Vendor search from the housing/transfer server, you guys followed through. 

    Add 2 more servers to handle vendor search, bringing you to 3 total. 

    1 For Atlantic, 1 For non Atlantic USA Servers, 1 For Non USA Servers. 

    That way when something goes wrong on Atlantic, it doesn't drag down the entire system. 

    @ Bleak



    Is Atlantic and other shard VS using same server? When I searched Atlantic it returns "vague", at the same time I tried another shard and it works quickly without issue.

    I think the results return as "vague" because the server is too busy, not because the search term is too short/simple/vague. For example, I was looking for a scroll:

    XXXXXX scroll 120 - returns "vague"
    XXXXXX - returns with a super long list of search results, starting from jewels etc.

    So a simple and vague term returns search results, but a longer, detailed search term return "vague"?

    I think the error message itself is wrong and not reflecting the actual issue, which could be due to server load or time-out.

    Why time-out? Everytime I get the "vague" feedback the search seems to take very long... So instead of feedback "server is busy, try again later", it says "vague".




    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,904
    After testing another search term, this is another finding:

    If you try a detailed search term and keep getting "vague" for 5 mins, then try to reduce to a single word search if possible.

    IF the VS search managed to work, then add another word (if you like) to be more specific.

    Ignore the system error "vague", instead of making your search term more detailed and specificy, try making it even simpler (and really vague) instead. The above works for me several times.


    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,817
    It might help the devs if we list the exact searches that are returning 'too vague'. If a commonality is found the devs could then work to improve VS for that.

    For example if the majority of 'too vague' is from searching for power scrolls the devs might be able to add SoP to the equipment list and update the skills field to accept 105, 110, 115, and 120 as valid values to search for.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Atl  VS search  "comm deed"  results in to vague, IMHO it is timing out because of the load on the search engine

    All other shards  VS search  "comm deed"  results in a list of every Comm Deed on that shard.

    Exact same words 2 different results.  It is not the wording it is the number of searches being done at the same time and as others have said it could be EJ Accounts doing this to bolster the RMT sells by shutting down VS
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,233
    Bilbo said:
     It is not the wording it is the number of searches being done at the same time and as others have said it could be EJ Accounts doing this to bolster the RMT sells by shutting down VS
    I don't see anyone being that nefarious. Possibly an auto buyer for a continuous scan to restock their sites. 

    Either way it wouldn't be so bad if Luna was still the mall. With vendors spread everywhere it's a real mess. 


  • SethSeth Posts: 2,904
    edited February 2021
    Its impossible to know if anyone is spamming search unless you are working in Broadsword. Many players sitting around the banks or hiding a home, no one knows if they are watching movie, eating pop corn or spamming VS in real life with 10 EJ accounts.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Urge said:
    Bilbo said:
     It is not the wording it is the number of searches being done at the same time and as others have said it could be EJ Accounts doing this to bolster the RMT sells by shutting down VS
    I don't see anyone being that nefarious. Possibly an auto buyer for a continuous scan to restock their sites. 

    Either way it wouldn't be so bad if Luna was still the mall. With vendors spread everywhere it's a real mess. 


    Sounds like someone is mad that VS devalued their Luna property.  VS was and still is one of the BEST things that UO has done for the whole player base and not just the select few that dominated the market pre VS.  So glad that is works great on shards not named Atl.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,233
    Bilbo said:
    Urge said:
    Bilbo said:
     It is not the wording it is the number of searches being done at the same time and as others have said it could be EJ Accounts doing this to bolster the RMT sells by shutting down VS
    I don't see anyone being that nefarious. Possibly an auto buyer for a continuous scan to restock their sites. 

    Either way it wouldn't be so bad if Luna was still the mall. With vendors spread everywhere it's a real mess. 


    Sounds like someone is mad that VS devalued their Luna property.  VS was and still is one of the BEST things that UO has done for the whole player base and not just the select few that dominated the market pre VS.  So glad that is works great on shards not named Atl.

    You misunderstood. Shopping without VS was easier when everything was piled in Luna. I totally agree a working VS would be the best thing to ever hit an item based game. Seems to be working a little better this weekend.
  • Middle of the afternoon on a Tuesday and can't vendor search a 120. 

    The joke is getting old. 
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    King_Greg said:
    Middle of the afternoon on a Tuesday and can't vendor search a 120. 

    The joke is getting old. 
    I just did a search "scroll legend" and suprise even though it took longer then normal it DID NOT time out and I got a list of all 120S on ATL.  Hope it stays, looks like they added more time before it times out.
  • Bilbo said:
    King_Greg said:
    Middle of the afternoon on a Tuesday and can't vendor search a 120. 

    The joke is getting old. 
    I just did a search "scroll legend" and suprise even though it took longer then normal it DID NOT time out and I got a list of all 120S on ATL.  Hope it stays, looks like they added more time before it times out.
    Yeah an hour and a half later it was working fine for searching even 120 "Abbreviated skill name". And then it went right back to shit. 




  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    With Publish 110 there will be restrictions on Endless Journey accounts accessing vendor search, we've updated the error messaging to better identify which issues users are experiencing, and we will be performing more regularly scheduled maintenance on the database.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,240
    edited March 2021
    Seems like the ATL issues with VS has infected other shards. Trying to search on Origin and getting "too vague"  on  pretty much anything I try for item name ("tangle" etc). I hopped over to Europa and getting same message. Is VS working for anyone on any shard?? 

    **This is after it takes 2min or so and basically times out (exactly what it does on ATL). I saw that VS was greyed out earlier on Origin so not sure if there is an issue with VS in general today.
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