Can Provo be fixed

for next event please <span>:wink:</span> @Kyronix @Mesanna
Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
«13

Comments

  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,230
    It worked for Black gate.  You can sit and watch 2 orcs fight for 3 minutes or kill them instantly with anything else.  I guess on dead shards you could wait a few minutes to kill a lich but they don't stay alive that long on busy shards.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    It doesn't work in deceit  :# and crowd control is important  
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,230
    The mobs they make for many events can not be provoked.  You can peace.  I don't know if the paras can be discorded.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,974
    "Pawain said:
    It worked for Black gate.  You can sit and watch 2 orcs fight for 3 minutes or kill them instantly with anything else.  I guess on dead shards you could wait a few minutes to kill a lich but they don't stay alive that long on busy shards.
    Personally, I think that these "Treasures of..." Events should have content achieveable "also" by templates other then the "same old, same old...."

    Sure, killing something with a Bard might take longer and 2 Orcs fighting one another might take 3 minutes for a kill BUT, I need to think, the Developers MIGHT be able to code the Drops so that the rate is "higher" using skills which take longer to kill as compared to skills which take a shorter time to kill ?

    In the end, time is the same for all players....

    So, regardless whether a Dexer can fight 50 MoBs in 3 minutes and a Bard only 1, the drop rate could be "adjusted" to what skill is being used there ?

    Of course, it will need to take into account players using multiple skills like Bard AND Fighting skills and avoid them getting "both" skills' advantages as far as drops go...

    It should be EITHER one... want to a be a Bard ? Then fine, the drop rate will be with less kills as they take more time, want to be a Fighter ? No problem, the drop rate will be a lot more kills to be needed to get a drop....

    This way, ALL playing styles could be taken care of with these "Treasures of..." type of Events.

    @Kyronix , @Bleak , what do you think ?
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,904
    edited November 2020
    popps said:
    "Pawain said:
    It worked for Black gate.  You can sit and watch 2 orcs fight for 3 minutes or kill them instantly with anything else.  I guess on dead shards you could wait a few minutes to kill a lich but they don't stay alive that long on busy shards.
    Personally, I think that these "Treasures of..." Events should have content achieveable "also" by templates other then the "same old, same old...."

    Sure, killing something with a Bard might take longer and 2 Orcs fighting one another might take 3 minutes for a kill BUT, I need to think, the Developers MIGHT be able to code the Drops so that the rate is "higher" using skills which take longer to kill as compared to skills which take a shorter time to kill ?

    In the end, time is the same for all players....

    So, regardless whether a Dexer can fight 50 MoBs in 3 minutes and a Bard only 1, the drop rate could be "adjusted" to what skill is being used there ?

    Of course, it will need to take into account players using multiple skills like Bard AND Fighting skills and avoid them getting "both" skills' advantages as far as drops go...

    It should be EITHER one... want to a be a Bard ? Then fine, the drop rate will be with less kills as they take more time, want to be a Fighter ? No problem, the drop rate will be a lot more kills to be needed to get a drop....

    This way, ALL playing styles could be taken care of with these "Treasures of..." type of Events.

    @ Kyronix , @ Bleak , what do you think ?

    When we say to include different types of character in a quest, it means they are used for different purpose in a quest line. For example, thieves required to steal something to activate a spawn, so that warriors can then fight (Kotl). Or need to go fishing to get parts so as to access a certain Boss area, so hunters (dexers, warriors, mages, tamers) can fight.

    I have not seen anyone in the world design a system where a bard can get a drop by watching 2 monsters killing themselves (and eating pop corn), while a warrior runs like mad and kill 3 rooms of 100 monsters to get the same drop. Then warriors have to repair all the worn out expensive armor, jewels and weapons, while the bard, only need to change to a new, cheap music device.

    Blackthorn, Khaldun, Kotl, Shrine wars, etc are all hunting events. You are asking for something else that sounds ridiculous. It should only be when the event is designed specifically for such character type, e.g. Artisan Festival is ONLY for crafters.

    Please don't ask the Dev to design different drop rate for different types of character using the same monsters in a hunting event. This is *Slap Forehead*
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,974
    edited November 2020
    Seth said:
    popps said:
    "Pawain said:
    It worked for Black gate.  You can sit and watch 2 orcs fight for 3 minutes or kill them instantly with anything else.  I guess on dead shards you could wait a few minutes to kill a lich but they don't stay alive that long on busy shards.
    Personally, I think that these "Treasures of..." Events should have content achieveable "also" by templates other then the "same old, same old...."

    Sure, killing something with a Bard might take longer and 2 Orcs fighting one another might take 3 minutes for a kill BUT, I need to think, the Developers MIGHT be able to code the Drops so that the rate is "higher" using skills which take longer to kill as compared to skills which take a shorter time to kill ?

    In the end, time is the same for all players....

    So, regardless whether a Dexer can fight 50 MoBs in 3 minutes and a Bard only 1, the drop rate could be "adjusted" to what skill is being used there ?

    Of course, it will need to take into account players using multiple skills like Bard AND Fighting skills and avoid them getting "both" skills' advantages as far as drops go...

    It should be EITHER one... want to a be a Bard ? Then fine, the drop rate will be with less kills as they take more time, want to be a Fighter ? No problem, the drop rate will be a lot more kills to be needed to get a drop....

    This way, ALL playing styles could be taken care of with these "Treasures of..." type of Events.

    @ Kyronix , @ Bleak , what do you think ?

    When we say to include different types of character in a quest, it means they are used for different purpose in a quest line. For example, thieves required to steal something to activate a spawn, so that warriors can then fight (Kotl). Or need to go fishing to get parts so as to access a certain Boss area, so hunters (dexers, warriors, mages, tamers) can fight.

    I have not seen anyone in the world design a system where a bard can get a drop by watching 2 monsters killing themselves (and eating pop corn), while a warrior runs like mad and kill 3 rooms of 100 monsters to get the same drop. Then warriors have to repair all the worn out expensive armor, jewels and weapons, while the bard, only need to change to a new, cheap music device.

    Blackthorn, Khaldun, Kotl, Shrine wars, etc are all hunting events. You are asking for something else that sounds ridiculous. It should only be when the event is designed specifically for such character type, e.g. Artisan Festival is ONLY for crafters.

    Please don't ask the Dev to design different drop rate for different types of character using the same monsters in a hunting event. This is *Slap Forehead*
    I have not seen anyone in the world design a system where a bard can get a drop by watching 2 monsters killing themselves (and eating pop corn), while a warrior runs like mad and kill 3 rooms of 100 monsters to get the same drop. Then warriors have to repair all the worn out expensive armor, jewels and weapons, while the bard, only need to change to a new, cheap music device.
    It is called Balance, as I see it.

    I do not see nothing wrong in having different Templates having a different drop rate depending on their "kills" rate ability....

    It is clear that different Templates have a different drop rate, some may drop way faster as others and, YET, all players have still one common denominator, TIME.....

    They all spend X time in the game, whether it is with a Fighter, a Tamer, a Bard, a whatever.

    The only thing that needs to be assessed is "on average" what drop rate have the different Templates in the same X amount of time and then adjust it for the different Templates so as to balance them all in a way that moreless get the same number of drops in the same amount of time, regardless whether one uses a Fighter, a Spellcaster, a Tamer, a Bard or whatever.

    If the Developers could pull such a thing out, then we could again see a variety of Templates playing the Events in Ultima Online that the players enjoy because, there would no longer be 1 type of a Template who gets the most drops, but ALL Templates, regardless what they are, would moreless get the same number of drops in the same amount of time.

    Players would be finally able to play the Templates that they enjoy playing, and not those which are "most productive"....

    Personally, I think such a change would be for the better sake of Ultima Online, as it would "free up" players in their choice of a Template to participate at a given Event without worrying that, if they are using this or that type of a Template, they could be missing out on drops....

    Those who love playing a Bard, could be playing a Bard and still get moreless the same drops as, say, a Sampire...

    Freedom of playing style, finally, and way more enjoyment in playing Ultima Online for players....
  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    I see no valid reason for mobs being immune to provoke.  Bards don’t need some insane refactored drop rate, that is just dumb.  If you want to play a bard in Deceit you will be less efficient and get fewer drops, just like any other less efficient template... but barring a legitimate PvM skill for a PvM event through coding is ridiculous.
  • Popps, do you have a bard, and play it regularly?

    Or is this just ANOTHER opinionated post based on no experience?


  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    My mystic bard doesn't need any help killin stuff I just need all my skills to work  imagine if whirlwind stopped working that is how provo not working affects me..
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 512
    Asking for more balance in the game is not unreasonable. Playing a sampire or dragoon (as I do) is considerably over-powered compared to other builds. The trick here isn't to lower the effectiveness of overpowered skills and classes, the trick is to make the underpowered skills more viable.

    What a lot of us would like is a meaningful, effective reason to play a bard in more than just the very few niche events that a bard is helpful at. Imagine if having a bard in your party increased the drop rate of artifacts and rewards. Or a bard song that instantly made all hostile NPCs target each other or paralyze across an entire screen versus having to one at a time things. The same with a blanket discordance ability across the screen. Bards were once very overpowered in the game and I recognize they needed to scale that back. The sheer fact, though, is every boss is un-discordable and un-provokable. What is the bard class? It is not really effective at overt combat anymore nor are the benefits of being a 4x120 bard as useful for defense as the point and scroll investment requires.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    I would love to see area effects for bards i made another post about people not liking to party and if my bard buffs just affected everyone in  a radius around me that would rock 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 512
    Turning bards into an AoE class would be excellent. 
  • I wonder if they ever would umporve upon the fire horn?  Maybe make it some sort of enhanced bard weapon.  Possibly slayer properties and such.
  • I use my Provo/Tamer to solo the Pit to farm the crystals.  He also did well doing the Black Gate Quest and the Black Gate Champ Spawn.  Didn't take him to Deceit tho..
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,974
    edited November 2020
    Jepeth said:
    Asking for more balance in the game is not unreasonable. Playing a sampire or dragoon (as I do) is considerably over-powered compared to other builds. The trick here isn't to lower the effectiveness of overpowered skills and classes, the trick is to make the underpowered skills more viable.

    What a lot of us would like is a meaningful, effective reason to play a bard in more than just the very few niche events that a bard is helpful at. Imagine if having a bard in your party increased the drop rate of artifacts and rewards. Or a bard song that instantly made all hostile NPCs target each other or paralyze across an entire screen versus having to one at a time things. The same with a blanket discordance ability across the screen. Bards were once very overpowered in the game and I recognize they needed to scale that back. The sheer fact, though, is every boss is un-discordable and un-provokable. What is the bard class? It is not really effective at overt combat anymore nor are the benefits of being a 4x120 bard as useful for defense as the point and scroll investment requires.
    Yes, better and more effective Bard songs would be a wonderful thing to have but in the end, what matters is "drops".....

    That a Bard can improve one's own Party to get more drops or more easily, does not help that Bard to get his/her drops...

    And what about the Bards who like to play Solo or they play on a low Population Shard not at prime time and, thus, have a serious hard time finding fellow players to hunt in a Party ?

    There needs to be, to my opinion, a way for Templates other then Sampires or their variations of and Tamers to participate to these Event and get their own drops, individually, likewise....

    Besides, there is more Templates in Ultima Online besides Bards who are neglected for these Events... what about them and all those players who actually enjoy playing those other Templates ?

    Is it possible for them also that the Developers were to find a way to have them able to get drops during these Events, also ?
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,230
    popps said:
    Jepeth said:
    Asking for more balance in the game is not unreasonable. Playing a sampire or dragoon (as I do) is considerably over-powered compared to other builds. The trick here isn't to lower the effectiveness of overpowered skills and classes, the trick is to make the underpowered skills more viable.

    What a lot of us would like is a meaningful, effective reason to play a bard in more than just the very few niche events that a bard is helpful at. Imagine if having a bard in your party increased the drop rate of artifacts and rewards. Or a bard song that instantly made all hostile NPCs target each other or paralyze across an entire screen versus having to one at a time things. The same with a blanket discordance ability across the screen. Bards were once very overpowered in the game and I recognize they needed to scale that back. The sheer fact, though, is every boss is un-discordable and un-provokable. What is the bard class? It is not really effective at overt combat anymore nor are the benefits of being a 4x120 bard as useful for defense as the point and scroll investment requires.
    Yes, better and more effective Bard songs would be a wonderful thing to have but in the end, what matters is "drops".....

    That a Bard can improve one's own Party to get more drops or more easily, does not help that Bard to get his/her drops...

    And what about the Bards who like to play Solo or they play on a low Population Shard not at prime time and, thus, have a serious hard time finding fellow players to hunt in a Party ?

    There needs to be, to my opinion, a way for Templates other then Sampires or their variations of and Tamers to participate to these Event and get their own drops, individually, likewise....

    Besides, there is more Templates in Ultima Online besides Bards who are neglected for these Events... what about them and all those players who actually enjoy playing those other Templates ?

    Is it possible for them also that the Developers were to find a way to have them able to get drops during these Events, also ?
    I think Bards songs are powerful enough, my toons get over 150HP when they are on.  Pets get max regens.  Then everyone gets more damage.

    Bards can get drops.  KILL STUFF!  Barding is 4 skills, you can have 3 more.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,974
    edited November 2020
    Pawain said:
    popps said:
    Jepeth said:
    Asking for more balance in the game is not unreasonable. Playing a sampire or dragoon (as I do) is considerably over-powered compared to other builds. The trick here isn't to lower the effectiveness of overpowered skills and classes, the trick is to make the underpowered skills more viable.

    What a lot of us would like is a meaningful, effective reason to play a bard in more than just the very few niche events that a bard is helpful at. Imagine if having a bard in your party increased the drop rate of artifacts and rewards. Or a bard song that instantly made all hostile NPCs target each other or paralyze across an entire screen versus having to one at a time things. The same with a blanket discordance ability across the screen. Bards were once very overpowered in the game and I recognize they needed to scale that back. The sheer fact, though, is every boss is un-discordable and un-provokable. What is the bard class? It is not really effective at overt combat anymore nor are the benefits of being a 4x120 bard as useful for defense as the point and scroll investment requires.
    Yes, better and more effective Bard songs would be a wonderful thing to have but in the end, what matters is "drops".....

    That a Bard can improve one's own Party to get more drops or more easily, does not help that Bard to get his/her drops...

    And what about the Bards who like to play Solo or they play on a low Population Shard not at prime time and, thus, have a serious hard time finding fellow players to hunt in a Party ?

    There needs to be, to my opinion, a way for Templates other then Sampires or their variations of and Tamers to participate to these Event and get their own drops, individually, likewise....

    Besides, there is more Templates in Ultima Online besides Bards who are neglected for these Events... what about them and all those players who actually enjoy playing those other Templates ?

    Is it possible for them also that the Developers were to find a way to have them able to get drops during these Events, also ?
    I think Bards songs are powerful enough, my toons get over 150HP when they are on.  Pets get max regens.  Then everyone gets more damage.

    Bards can get drops.  KILL STUFF!  Barding is 4 skills, you can have 3 more.
    Bards can get drops.  KILL STUFF!  Barding is 4 skills, you can have 3 more.

    I am sorry, but, as I see it, a Bards should not need a Weapon skill or Spellcasting to kill things, it should be able to do it with its Bardic skills, namely, Provocation, Discord, Peacemake.

    Often people see Bardic skill in "support" of other skills, well, to my opinion, that is a gross mistake which should not be done.

    A Bard is a Bard and should be able to play using his/her bardic skill, and not need "other" skills in order to be able to play which would then make the Bardic skills a "2nd Class" set of skills only used to "support" 1st Class fighting skills.

    That is at least if we want to see skills ALL on a same, equal footing.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,230
    edited November 2020
    So you want a template that only requires 480 points to kill the same as templates that take 780 points and require actual suit building.
     :D 

    @popps please just play on TC where you can get everything with no effort.

    How many points have you turned into Deceit now?  I just passed 700 and have all the human and elf suits spare and have chests with 120 more to trade to others for mannequins.   You have til Saturday to play instead of post about not getting drops.  KILL STUFF.  I got my 5 epaulets that were my goal. Someone traded me a Titan relic for one so I had to get another to replace it. Then I decided to get one for My Garg.  So, I still need 100 more for a kotl ring and some more boots.

    Also got 20+ cubes. How many did you get?

    Make goals instead of making complaints and learn how to play better, Or accept mediocrity and leave us out of your choice.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • My Blacksmith demands drops! I have 120 skill points invested! Gimme gimme gimme! We are weeks into this event and even though I (we) know what works, I Demand the devs give me 500+ drops credited to my acct!!!

    BTW @popps Congrats on joining a decent guild on Catskills. I did see your {ALLY} tag today. Gawd help em!
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,230
    jelinidas said:
    My Blacksmith demands drops! I have 120 skill points invested! Gimme gimme gimme! We are weeks into this event and even though I (we) know what works, I Demand the devs give me 500+ drops credited to my acct!!!

    BTW @ popps Congrats on joining a decent guild on Catskills. I did see your {ALLY} tag today. Gawd help em!
    Will Popps finally see how fast and easy a Fel spawn is?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    Again all  i am asking is that all my skills work as intended....
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 512
    Must every thread devolve into you all personally attacking Popps?

    Returning back to the point of this thread 480 skill points is a large investment for, as mentioned earlier, not a lot of synergy between them. Having 120 in each music skill improves the skills overall but more tangible benefits could be found. I cannot discord, provo, and peace every single pair of monsters, that's silly. But I can use my sword, augmented by tactics, bushido, and anatomy to synergize together. Other than the Pitts or multiple pocket bards for pet health purposes I've yet to see an EM boss, a limited-time event, or true endgame content that a bard would be a fun, viable character to bring. 

    As I previously said, if bards are meant to be a support class only, fine. But let's expand what they can do to give players a fun reason to play them in support situations.
  • Jepeth said:
    Must every thread devolve into you all personally attacking Popps?

    Returning back to the point of this thread 480 skill points is a large investment for, as mentioned earlier, not a lot of synergy between them. Having 120 in each music skill improves the skills overall but more tangible benefits could be found. I cannot discord, provo, and peace every single pair of monsters, that's silly. But I can use my sword, augmented by tactics, bushido, and anatomy to synergize together. Other than the Pitts or multiple pocket bards for pet health purposes I've yet to see an EM boss, a limited-time event, or true endgame content that a bard would be a fun, viable character to bring. 

    As I previously said, if bards are meant to be a support class only, fine. But let's expand what they can do to give players a fun reason to play them in support situations.
    I do play a bard. I use her in certain situations, not others. I do see Popps play, ask questions, disregard answers and still write novels. Move on...
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,230
    edited November 2020
    I have an Archer bard that can kill many things.  I use him at Corgul and Scalis to give buffs to the others.

    Discord:
    Tribulationin jux hur relCast: 30; Upkeep: 16
    skill_bard_tribulationTarget Hit Chance reduced by up to 32%, Spell Damaged reduced by 32%, Damage Taken can trigger additional damage between 20-60% of the damage taken as physical once per second. (Discordance Based) (Chance to Trigger damage Musicianship Based)
    Despairkal des mani tymCast: 30; Upkeep:18
    skill_bard_despairTarget Strength Reduced by up to 32, 20 – 60 Damage (Physical), every 2 seconds.

    Dang good 

    Peace:
    Resiliencekal mani tymCast: 30 Upkeep: 8
    skill_bard_resiliencePoison resistance increase(not the stat), Mortal, Bleed, Curse effect Durations decreased, Hp regen bonus 2-8, mana regen bonus 2-8, stamina regen bonus 2-8.
    Perseveranceuus jux sanctCast: 30; Upkeep: 8
    skill_bard_perseveranceParty Defense Chance increased by up to 16%, Damage reduced by up to 16%. Casting focus bonus 1-4%.

    Excellent for solo.  I use this for Balrons in Chaos.

    Provocation: 

    Inspire

    uus porCast: 30 Upkeep: 8
    skill_bard_inspireParty Hit chance increase by up to 15%, Damage increase by up to 40%, SDI increased by up to 15% (PvP Cap 15)(Provocation Based)
    Invigoratean zuCast: 30; Upkeep: 8
    skill_bard_invigorateParty Hit Points increased by up to 20, Party healed for 7-16 dmg every 4 seconds. (Provocation Based). Party Strength, Dex, Int, Increased by Up to 8.

    Excellent for groups. I get over 150HP

    Players just dont want to party.  Maybe spread the word about how good these buffs are.
    They are all better than any other masteries.  Peace does more regens than Consume.

    Jepeth said:
    Must every thread devolve into you all personally attacking Popps?



    I'll tell anyone when they are wrong or misinformed. He just happens to be one of those often.  
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 842
    edited November 2020
    • Agree the dynamic event spawn should be provocable.
    • Agree that devs should consider making bard buffs not require being in a party, after all, the song can be heard in a certain radius, right?  If this were done, the mana consumption of the bard songs would likely need to be capped, as it's based on the number of targets affected by the song.
    • Disagree that bards should get adjusted treatment in the drop calculations.  If a bard successfully discords a target, and is using a weapon skill and pet, it's already then getting more damage dealt as a result of barding.
    Provocation is one of the most powerful skills in the game, as is the mastery.

    A bard/tamer/archer (or warrior) combo absolutely owned generals in the invasions.  Why?  Provoke spawn onto general, pet attacks and tanks, and warrior skill dealt damage.  That's three+ sources of damage dealt.  Same is true for champ spawn bosses.

  • JepethJepeth Posts: 512
    Frankly fellas I think you should ignore him if you're that frustrated. Please do not take this as me being rude but it's just becoming a bit much?

    And Paiwan to your point about the buffs I agree they are more useful than players give them credit. But the original point of the thread was discussion of the ineffectiveness of provocation. Imagine if one of those songs made it so you never failed a provoke or a discord. -That- would be worth something. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,230
    edited November 2020
    Jepeth said:
    Frankly fellas I think you should ignore him if you're that frustrated. Please do not take this as me being rude but it's just becoming a bit much?

    And Paiwan to your point about the buffs I agree they are more useful than players give them credit. But the original point of the thread was discussion of the ineffectiveness of provocation. Imagine if one of those songs made it so you never failed a provoke or a discord. -That- would be worth something. 
    Im just saying the devs turn it off for many of these events.  Hell I made a thread the first time this was done. Before this forum existed.  They must have a reason.  I accepted it.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 512
    I mean, I agree. Nothing in the game is here by happenstance. But I like these forums because we can all discuss and debate changes and additions in a venue that we know they read. Not to speak for the developers but just because they had a reason however many years ago you made that thread doesn't mean they aren't still interested in our feedback and ideas. Or at least I hope that's the case!

    As they say, just doing something because that's how we've always done it is a poor reason not to discuss ways to improve. 

    Maybe a more fruitful way to look at this topic is how could they continue to intertwine bard skills with others to make those remaining three hundred points more viable for 4x120 bard. If your bard songs helped summons exist substantially longer. I'd love to see a return of the enticement ability in such a way that using provoke I could move my RC towards the direction I want it to go.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,904
    We should let the cook kill and BBQ the monsters in Deceit... each meal earn points to get a drop. :D
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,974
    edited November 2020
    Seth said:
    We should let the cook kill and BBQ the monsters in Deceit... each meal earn points to get a drop. :D
    I guess that it is a bit far fetching to compare a skill like cooking or Camping, for that matter, to skills like those for a Bard....

    A fully rounded Bard, is an investment in 480 skill points, 120 x Musicianship, Provocation, Peacemaking and Discordance.

    And for a fully Rounded Rogue, it is even worse !

    At 120 Stealing, 100 Snooping, 100 Hiding, 100 Lockpicking, 100 Detect Hidden, 100 Remove trap and one should also consider some Ninjitsu, there is some templates which, if one wants to respect their Role fully and not just use bits and pieces of them, pretty much leave no room for anything else...

    Such Templates, fully rounded around their meant Role, should, to my opinion, be considered fully playable standalone Templates and be able to get drops and items just as like other Fighting Templates.

    That is why I was proposing the idea of some "Super Masteries" whereas, if a Template had many skills all connected to that Role (like around 500 if not more Role related REAL skill points invested in the Template), they would get extra benefits from that enabling those Template to make a fully standalone playable Template on par with Fighting Templates.

    We have 0 Magery Weapons, and spells like in Mysticism (Animated Weapon) whereas a spellcaster can actually use other skills related to their Role and still get fighting capabilities....

    Why, for example, couldn't such a Super Mastery get the same done for a Rogue or a Bard where, if they had a sufficient "real" skills related to their Rogue or Bard role, they could get to wield a Weapon and effectively fight as a Fighter could thus enabling them to be a standalone character fully capable to get their drops just like Fighting characters can ?
Sign In or Register to comment.