Perhaps the road to help repopulate Felucca might come from "killing" Ghost Cams and the likes ?

24

Comments

  • TimTim Posts: 774
    Tim said:
    Just a couple observations about this discussion.
    • The premiss is to make it easer for me a PvMer get in and out of Fel without being spotted or interacting with PvPers. If I get in and out without you knowing why would you care? Thats not repopulating Fel.
    • The entire thread reads as an argument on how to get more mugging victims into your neighbourhood.
    • Very little if anything about making PvP enjoyable for me. Just the usual if I want PS I have to.
    • And don't kid yourselves grinding for hours to rase gold for a PS or $20 to a web site. You really think there is a choice?
    I could go on but if you don't get we don't want to PvP why bother.
    Isn't it funny how you read someones post and criticize it to hell and back, but when it's YOUR post, it's supposed to be taken seriously and given full merit...funny how that works eh Tim ?
    Hows it working for you?

    It was a serious post trying to point out a solution might help the PvP community but even it you solve the problem it will not bring players to Fel. The ones who find the chance of being mugged and losing a night of play for nothing entertaining are already doing it. Those like me who don't won't start just because the odds of getting away with it got better.

    Some things that might change that are 
    • make Power Scrolls blessed 
    • When you are the target of and attack all you items are considered "Blessed" for the period of that combat 
    • If attacked and killed you have the choice of resection (with all you gear & Loot) in Tram.
    Any or all of those might make me willing to be your target but I'm not promising anything.

    Outside of the PvP community "ghost cams" are not really an issue.  I don't care if the PKer found me by ghost cam, a cheat program or fully legal scouting. All that maters is he found me and I don't have a chance against a full up PvP template. Needless to say thats not my idea of a fun night.
  • AtomicBettyAtomicBetty Posts: 227
    Tim said:
    Tim said:
    Just a couple observations about this discussion.
    • The premiss is to make it easer for me a PvMer get in and out of Fel without being spotted or interacting with PvPers. If I get in and out without you knowing why would you care? Thats not repopulating Fel.
    • The entire thread reads as an argument on how to get more mugging victims into your neighbourhood.
    • Very little if anything about making PvP enjoyable for me. Just the usual if I want PS I have to.
    • And don't kid yourselves grinding for hours to rase gold for a PS or $20 to a web site. You really think there is a choice?
    I could go on but if you don't get we don't want to PvP why bother.
    Isn't it funny how you read someones post and criticize it to hell and back, but when it's YOUR post, it's supposed to be taken seriously and given full merit...funny how that works eh Tim ?

    Outside of the PvP community "ghost cams" are not really an issue.  I don't care if the PKer found me by ghost cam, a cheat program or fully legal scouting. All that maters is he found me and I don't have a chance against a full up PvP template. Needless to say thats not my idea of a fun night.
    I don't think there is a solution really to ghost camming at dungeon entrance and I guess the problem isn't really the ghosts. It's the invisible characters that you have no idea if there.

    But I just wanted to say can you imagine the outcry players would have if champion spawns were in trammel and players were ghost camming those to roll in last minute for scrolls? That would be a glorious meltdown. (sorry off topic but your post made me think of it)


  • TimTim Posts: 774

    But I just wanted to say can you imagine the outcry players would have if champion spawns were in trammel and players were ghost camming those to roll in last minute for scrolls? That would be a glorious meltdown. (sorry off topic but your post made me think of it)


    Happens now.
    It's not really a problem other then the "gold fountain". If he shows up early enough to help with the boss he just has bad manners. If he shows up just at the end he doesn't get looting rights. Either way he really doesn't change what you get by that much.

    No one owns a spawn.
  • AtomicBettyAtomicBetty Posts: 227
    oh sorry I meant if powerscrolls dropped from trammel champion spawns.
  • TimTim Posts: 774
     AtomicBetty said:
    oh sorry I meant if powerscrolls dropped from trammel champion spawns.
    Same answer. 
    Though I'm not sure about the mechanics of PS drop. Is it a set number per boss all dropped at the end? I had thought they were dropped randomly as the spawn ran through its levels like the pinks in trammel.
  • AtomicBettyAtomicBetty Posts: 227
    6 drop randomly from the champion so if 10 characters hit only 6 would get a scroll and another 6 from Justice virtue if being used. So 3 people could work the spawn til champion up and 6 show up at last second and 'steal' all the scrolls.

  • JenniferMarieJenniferMarie Posts: 286
    edited April 2019
    — For the record, they changed things awhile back. If you die in T2A, you’re teleported to a shrine if you don’t get res’d within a certain period of time. And if you have a hidden, alive toon in T2A and time out you’re teleported to a shrine immediately upon logging back in.

    I am presuming this was all done in an attempt to prevent ghost cams at spawn alters and dungeon entrances, but it doesn’t work as intended.

    Hidden, alive toons just need to set up macros to perform an unrevealable action (like opening and closing a spellbook or runebook) every few minutes - and then they never time out.

    I’m not sure what the people who leave actual ghosts do to not get teleported to a shrine ... you’d have to ask a PvPer who knows how that works for the answer.
    ~ Jennifer-Marie

    "Insanity is a naturally occurring mutation; humanity has just managed to perfect it." -- JMK [[me]]
  • PawainPawain Posts: 8,824
    I like the idea of Ghosts not seeing others unless they speak.  They would be able to see others for ten minutes after death and then their live world vision depletes unless they are speaking in a effort to reach the living world.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • TimTim Posts: 774
    Not being a PvP I really can't think of why Ghosts players are invisible at any time. Unless someone has a scenario where an invisible ghost is a valid play style wouldn't a simple solution to that part of your problem is just make them always visible?
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Kick EJ accounts out of Fel, problem solved.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    edited April 2019

    @Tim, we don't want or need you in Felucca.

    We are populated enough, and having fun with our more fun PvP playstyle.

    If you want to come for the fun, come, if you don't, don't. Don't whine about us having fun, and don't attempt to change the entire game just for your benefit.

    I'd guess that currently Felucca is more populated than Trammel. And I'd prefer it if certain players stayed in Trammel to be fair. Or maybe you are the type that just winds everyone up so much, we just all instantly PK you on sight, I can believe that.





  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    Tim said:
    Hows it working for you?

    It was a serious post trying to point out a solution might help the PvP community but even it you solve the problem it will not bring players to Fel. The ones who find the chance of being mugged and losing a night of play for nothing entertaining are already doing it. Those like me who don't won't start just because the odds of getting away with it got better.

    Some things that might change that are 
    • make Power Scrolls blessed 
    • When you are the target of and attack all you items are considered "Blessed" for the period of that combat 
    • If attacked and killed you have the choice of resection (with all you gear & Loot) in Tram.
    Any or all of those might make me willing to be your target but I'm not promising anything.

    Outside of the PvP community "ghost cams" are not really an issue.  I don't care if the PKer found me by ghost cam, a cheat program or fully legal scouting. All that maters is he found me and I don't have a chance against a full up PvP template. Needless to say thats not my idea of a fun night.


    My response related to this post by the way, meant to quote it.

    Felucca does not need or want to change anything to accommodate you Tim.









  • TimTim Posts: 774
    Cookie said:

    @ Tim, we don't want or need you in Felucca.

    We are populated enough, and having fun with our more fun PvP playstyle.

    If you want to come for the fun, come, if you don't, don't. Don't whine about us having fun, and don't attempt to change the entire game just for your benefit.

    I'd guess that currently Felucca is more populated than Trammel. And I'd prefer it if certain players stayed in Trammel to be fair. Or maybe you are the type that just winds everyone up so much, we just all instantly PK you on sight, I can believe that.





    I was thinking this discussion belonged in the PvP category even though the popps said he was looking to repopulated Fel. But I guess if it is fully populated enjoy your game.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    edited April 2019
    Tim said:
    I was thinking this discussion belonged in the PvP category even though the popps said he was looking to repopulated Fel. But I guess if it is fully populated enjoy your game.


    I am enjoying the game thanks, so is everyone else.


    The discussion was titled how to repopulate Felucca, from someone who does not really know or play in Felucca by the sounds of it - he seems to throw out a lot of questions on stuff he has heard from all over the shop, but he did also add in a legitimate point about Ghost Cams in the title - which is relevant right now, to which I gave a detailed and considered response.


    The topic was primarily about ghost cams, not trying to attract victims or sheep, or other such emotional terminology you keep swinging every such topic like this into, then trying to get powerscrolls blessed, or put into Trammel. I'm not interested in victims or sheep, and would prefer if you stayed out of the conversation, - I am not interested in you, or trying to bring you to Felucca - lets be very clear about this.



  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,898Moderator
    Please keep comments to postive suggestions and not personal attacks and trolling

    Thank you.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,875
    Pawain said:
    I like the idea of Ghosts not seeing others unless they speak.  They would be able to see others for ten minutes after death and then their live world vision depletes unless they are speaking in a effort to reach the living world.
    As I said, "only" not seeing others would not be enough since they could still "assume" that other players are in the are by seeing changes to the spawn like monsters dropping dead etc. etc.

    So, it would be necessary for Ghosts to not see ANY character at all, be them PCs or NPCs alike.

    They could only see the terrain or Wandering healers, of course, necessary for ressing issues....

    But then also the scripted, hidden/stealthing "free EJ characters Cameras should be addressed....

    Addressing only Ghosts would not solve the issue of "Cameras" if then free, EJ hidden/stealthing characters could still be used as Cameras to report the presence of players in the Area...
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,875
    Cookie said:
    Tim said:
    I was thinking this discussion belonged in the PvP category even though the popps said he was looking to repopulated Fel. But I guess if it is fully populated enjoy your game.


    I am enjoying the game thanks, so is everyone else.


    The discussion was titled how to repopulate Felucca, from someone who does not really know or play in Felucca by the sounds of it - he seems to throw out a lot of questions on stuff he has heard from all over the shop, but he did also add in a legitimate point about Ghost Cams in the title - which is relevant right now, to which I gave a detailed and considered response.


    The topic was primarily about ghost cams, not trying to attract victims or sheep, or other such emotional terminology you keep swinging every such topic like this into, then trying to get powerscrolls blessed, or put into Trammel. I'm not interested in victims or sheep, and would prefer if you stayed out of the conversation, - I am not interested in you, or trying to bring you to Felucca - lets be very clear about this.



    Well, my understanding is that there IS an issue about Felucca and a scarcity of players' population... so much that, I often hear pleas to the Developers to make changes, additions, corrections to Ultima Online so as to then see "more" players go to Felucca....

    Now, instead, I hear that Felucca is fine as it is and that there is no need to help it see more players ?

    So, why should the Developers then worry about making any change that would make it see more players wanting to go there ?

    Perhaps, the density of population of Felucca is a "personal" taste type of thing.... to some it might look deserted and underpopulated, to some others fine as it is, and to some others perhaps even too much populated ?

    So who's judgement would be the right one, then ?

    Those who see it deserted, those who see it fine as it is, or those who perhaps think it too much "crowded", even ?
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,311
    You can't 'repopulate' fel.  You can't force people to go there, it has to be a voluntary action
    Fel is essentially a facet for pvpers; they are a minority, though exceedingly vocal, group in the overall UO player demographic; so 'their' facet will always be less populated, which is not to say it is 'dead' by any means.  

    Within that group are pvpers who enjoy pitting their skills against other players. They only want willing participants who enjoy the same thing.

    Then there are pk's who only require a victim with a skill set they can easily overcome. 

    Some of both sets are unable to function without the artificial prop provided by unauthorised 'extras'. (to me that's an admission of their lack of real skill, but that's just me)

    There are also players like myself, willing to spend time on the facet for the extra gains, but carefully, as much as possible avoiding conflict, and employing legendary leggit skills coupled with a fairly comprehensive knowledge of the terrain when that fails :D   I tried pvp, I don't have the right temperament for it, but I don't throw a hissy fit when my leggit skills fail and I end up viewing in grey-scale.

    Give up trying to find incentives to push people into fel, those that want to go, will. those that don't, won't.

    I would advise any pvm folk who want to try champ spawns to attempt to recruit genuine pvpers to join them and act as 'guards', for a fair recompense, or try to fit in a sneaky T2A champ at off peak times.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    well said @Petra_Fyde
  • TimTim Posts: 774
    Yes @Petra_Fyde exactly (you are a much nicer and more polite person then me)
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,759
    Another solution is who ever attacks a blue gets their armor nerfed to 0 to give the blue a fighting chance at defending themselves. Risk verse reward.  If you want the reward of attacking a blue then your risk of dying increases a lot.

    Another solution is if a blue is attacked they immediately are able to recall away even in areas were they normally can not recall from.
  • KirthagKirthag Posts: 541
    Bah.
    All this banter for something not really needed (or wanted).

    Felucca is fine. Felucca is bountiful. Felucca is populated. Felucca is glorious!

    About the only thing I think needed in Felucca - or rather all of Sosaria - is a bit more of this thing called "role play" - but we all kinda do that, eh? 

  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    edited April 2019

    Fel is essentially a facet for pvpers; they are a minority, though exceedingly vocal, group in the overall UO player demographic; so 'their' facet will always be less populated, which is not to say it is 'dead' by any means.  


    Hi Petra, Nice post overall, I never have a problem with any of your posts, or attitude, in fact I believe you are wasted in Trammel :) But then I know you hang out with possibly the best/nicest Trammel players - who also have a fantastic attitude. It is only because I know of you guys playing in Trammel, that I know there are some cool ones, and don't trash the entire lot.

    I just wanted to make a comment on this bit, regarding minority, and how vocal we are.

    I play in 2 guild Discords - Wraiths on Europa, and 1%ers on Atlantic - now I am not going to show any screenshots, because I believe I would be compromising friends privacy, and I don't have permission.

    The Wraiths alliance (Wraiths/TUK) discord currently has 15 online players, and 57 offline players.

    1%ers guild alone discord has 55 online, and 87 offline players.

    Do you know how many of them are vocal, and post on forums regularly?

    The answer is potentially 1 (me) (but certainly less than 10/200 odd players). I never see anyone I know, who plays the game with me, who I speak with, and share similar views as, post on either Stratics, or UO.com - the truth is, they are all just too busy playing. There is the odd time I see one, and they have a post count of like 5, and I make a point of saying Hi.

    That's out of the PvP guilds I am part of. I represent the Blue side. Representing the other side that we all know of - is Mervyn. Again, I play against many PvPers and guilds, and I rarely see any of them posting, I rarely see anyone from Mervyn's side of the tracks posting.

    I really don't think we are a minority, and I really don't think we are that vocal, in comparison to what I see on the forums.


    And just to add as a note - I believe I have dealt with the fact we are pretty much non existent on the forums. Ingame - Yes some of us are very vocal - I certainly am, my skillset is creating action. :) We have a vibrant, competitive, active playstyle, we are enjoying ourselves, we are going to throw abuse/banter at each other, any sports players do so.

    But again, when you compare to the numbers of us actually playing, the majority of us don't actually speak in general chat. My friends rarely do, Mervyn never does - his policy/guild policy (apart from a couple who break it) is to not speak in general chat - annoying for me, because I am always trying to troll him to get him to talk there. :)


    Kirthag said:
    Bah.
    All this banter for something not really needed (or wanted).

    Felucca is fine. Felucca is bountiful. Felucca is populated. Felucca is glorious!

    About the only thing I think needed in Felucca - or rather all of Sosaria - is a bit more of this thing called "role play" - but we all kinda do that, eh? 


    And I just really enjoyed your post. :)

  • Tim said:

    Though I'm not sure about the mechanics of PS drop. Is it a set number per boss all dropped at the end? I had thought they were dropped randomly as the spawn ran through its levels like the pinks in trammel.
    — Um ... no? 105 Powerscrolls and SoTs drop during the four levels of spawn. 6 Powerscrolls drop when the Champ is killed - 110s, 115s, and 120s. 12 if you have a Protector. How many Champ Spawns have you actually run in Fel?


    — Fel is only “overpopulated” on a shard like ATL. On many shards there is a noticeable lack of PvPers on a daily basis, though once or twice a year things pick up when people come back from long breaks or some guilds from other shards pop over. Those who play their home shards exclusively can occasionally be found lamenting the quietness of Fel, but they get the PvP action they want by raiding people like me: Trammies who have no qualms going to Fel to run spawns for whatever our personal motivation is. (Scrolls, personal challenge, whatever.)

    Ghost Cams in Fel or programs/macros that alert a PvPer to someone’s presence in a dungeon or at an alter is one of the main problems of Fel.

    I have been raided a few times - two or three people in a group - who run straight to me, no matter how out-of-the way I am. They knew exactly where I was before ever approaching the spawn.

    Yes, it’s quite possible one of them was scouting on a ninja stealther and they have mastered the template so that they can run the exact number of squares before revealing - but given that I play exclusively on a lower population shard with almost nonexistent PvP, it’s more likely there was a ghost cam somewhere.

    Do I take a risk of getting PKed when I go to Fel? Yup, sure do. But ghost cams reduce my fighting chance of survival by more than half.


    ~ Jennifer-Marie

    "Insanity is a naturally occurring mutation; humanity has just managed to perfect it." -- JMK [[me]]
  • When I first came back I loved taking my new samp to champs.. really enjoyed it and every once in a while got raided.. was part of the risk. Was ok with it.  Not a chance of me doing a champ spawn and haven’t in many months until the ghost cams go away. Period. Ghost cams are a disgrace to the game and a fix should have been in a publish ago 
  • TempestTempest Posts: 22
    Question: Would you rather the team spent their time chasing down these accounts, which requires actually catching them in the act, not watching a video, or developing the game and investigating and fixing bugs?

    Another Question: If you delegated this task to GMs should they stop answering help calls to do it?  

    There are only so many hours in a day and only a finite number of Broadsword employees, rather less than the number of cheaters you can find.  They do catch and remove some, as posted on the newsletters, there is a large difference between what is desirable and what is possible. Many older players understand that. 


  • CetricCetric Posts: 152
    edited April 2019
    Make ghosts unable to see players unless in war mode.  I'd say make them unable to ever see a player, but if they are looking for a res that would be a hindrance.  Could also consider making it so a ghost can see guild/alliance/party members and nothing else as far as mobiles.

    The only in war mode deal is in place other places and works well.  But they also police and take care of ghosts just chilling so who knows.

    I'd say there are more pressing needs like guilds that shall not be named sending their targets serial number across chat to make hitting same targets easier but who knows..... Make journal unable to read guild/alliance/party messages.  There's an idea for ya.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Do all you want to the ghost and it will do no good as long as EJ Accounts are allowed in Fel.  I watched a char named "Im a ghostcam" with a stealth +10 robe practicing hiding in Luna.  What will you do about the stealth hiding EJ chars.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,875
    Bilbo said:
    Do all you want to the ghost and it will do no good as long as EJ Accounts are allowed in Fel.  I watched a char named "Im a ghostcam" with a stealth +10 robe practicing hiding in Luna.  What will you do about the stealth hiding EJ chars.
    Ineed, BOTH would need to be addressed or the issue of AFK "cameras" to monitor AFK various places at once, would not be solved...
  • LynkLynk Posts: 185
    Well you can kill the no defensive skill player and turn him into a ghost.  Meaning you can take control rather than paging and crying on the forums and over nerfing stuff.
This discussion has been closed.