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Why not update the loot tables on older content?

crunchnastycrunchnasty Posts: 241
in General Discussions
Might get people playing more of the game besides just roof and champ spawns?

Comments

  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    ^^^^^THIS^^^^^
  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    Without an upgrade in difficulty most of the older encounters just don’t warrant the same caliber of loot.  It’s the same reason dragons drop better loot than giant rats.

    I would support there being more encounters that do warrant the top end loot, but this would require very careful balance... even with 20 encounters that drop the best loot, players will naturally gravitate to the two or three which are the most efficient.
  • crunchnastycrunchnasty Posts: 241
    Maybe the bigger question is why not update the entire older content encounters to reflect having a better loot table
  • FreelsyFreelsy Posts: 70
    Merus said:
    Without an upgrade in difficulty most of the older encounters just don’t warrant the same caliber of loot.  It’s the same reason dragons drop better loot than giant rats.

    I would support there being more encounters that do warrant the top end loot, but this would require very careful balance... even with 20 encounters that drop the best loot, players will naturally gravitate to the two or three which are the most efficient.
    But the Roof is an extremely easy encounter. It's just gated behind a 5-stage time sink. The older Bosses are still quite difficult. More difficult than any boss from the Roof.

    I've been asking this question for a long time. Update the old loot tables.
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 1,187Dev
    Defining which specific encounters you are talking about would be a good start.

    Conventional wisdom is the greater the difficulty/time-investment of the encounter, the better the loot behind it.  I've touched on this topic briefly in other threads, but we do have a substantial imbalance in the core item property loop that needs to be addressed at some point, so dropping high intensity level loot into other encounters before that is essentially a non-starter.  That's a conversation for a different thread though.  We do have quite a bit of bandwidth with cosmetics though, offering new looks and such which you'll start to see more of in the coming publishes.  Expanding that to existing encounters would be a great next step!
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,016
    edited March 2019
    Kyronix said:
    Defining which specific encounters you are talking about would be a good start.

    Conventional wisdom is the greater the difficulty/time-investment of the encounter, the better the loot behind it.  I've touched on this topic briefly in other threads, but we do have a substantial imbalance in the core item property loop that needs to be addressed at some point, so dropping high intensity level loot into other encounters before that is essentially a non-starter.  That's a conversation for a different thread though.  We do have quite a bit of bandwidth with cosmetics though, offering new looks and such which you'll start to see more of in the coming publishes.  Expanding that to existing encounters would be a great next step!

    T Rex and Great Ape take a while solo.  A loot upgrade there would be nice.

    All the peerless could have the legendary drop table increased.

    The top end paragons could have the drop increased.  We used to spawn a Paragon Ancient Wyrm for a long fight with a crowd,

    Night Terror could use a loot drop increase, That is a long fight.

    Those life stealers at the volcanco could drop a crimmy and I wouldn't have one.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • XareXare Posts: 124
    @Pawain Personally, I try to play this game with friends (this is an MMO afterall), so the loot we get should be based on how hard it is as a group, not solo.
  • DrowyDrowy Posts: 131
    Pawain said:

    T Rex and Great Ape take a while solo.  A loot upgrade there would be nice.

    All the peerless could have the legendary drop table increased.

    The top end paragons could have the drop increased.  We used to spawn a Paragon Ancient Wyrm for a long fight with a crowd,

    Night Terror could use a loot drop increase, That is a long fight.

    Those life stealers at the volcanco could drop a crimmy and I wouldn't have one.
    These plus the champ bosses including Meraktus, Ilhenir the Stained, Twaulo of the Glade, Serado the Awakened. Maybe the mini champ bosses in the Abyss as well. And the Harrower and Charybdis.
    The Dragon Turtle need a bump in the amount of items.
  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    Kyronix said:
    Defining which specific encounters you are talking about would be a good start.

    Conventional wisdom is the greater the difficulty/time-investment of the encounter, the better the loot behind it.  I've touched on this topic briefly in other threads, but we do have a substantial imbalance in the core item property loop that needs to be addressed at some point, so dropping high intensity level loot into other encounters before that is essentially a non-starter.  That's a conversation for a different thread though.  We do have quite a bit of bandwidth with cosmetics though, offering new looks and such which you'll start to see more of in the coming publishes.  Expanding that to existing encounters would be a great next step!
    Right now the only existing encounter that I think warrants a loot upgrade to match the roof/exodus is the Harrower.  The time investment to spawn him as well as the risk associated with it being a Fel encounter warrants the highest end loot.

    The PvP crowd would also benefit because there are really no current Fel encounters to get this level of gear (excluding the Putrefier/Abyss abuse).

    I think this would be a super easy way to put out a small change that would have a very positive impact for game play without creating any noticeable power creep.
  • KronalKronal Posts: 84
    Xare said:
    @ Pawain Personally, I try to play this game with friends (this is an MMO afterall), so the loot we get should be based on how hard it is as a group, not solo.
    Let's base these ideas on reality instead of what should be.  There are many situations where group play is not available.  99% of the content having no value loot wise is deplorable and frankly it is disheartening.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,016
    edited March 2019

    @Kronal ;  Truth!


    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Acid_RainAcid_Rain Posts: 279
    edited March 2019
    I used to solo T-Rex often(for the quest) & noticed some “could be” really good pieces that were missing 1 or 2 VITAL mods. After 2 weeks trying to convince friends to join me, one finally reluctantly agreed.

    We donned our luck suits & spent 4 hours farming. End result was him telling me “Never ask me to join in your hair brained ideas again.” Not a single piece was kept for use or vendor sales.

    For level of difficulty his loot sucks Dino-balls.
  • ArronArron Posts: 485
    I did not know you could solo T-Rex. How long did it take you to kill him? What type of Character did you use?

  • Acid_RainAcid_Rain Posts: 279
    edited March 2019
    He’s very difficult to solo. You must have healing, parry, & bushido to survive his paralyze hits. I use a human warrior tweeked out to eat damage: cap all damage eater, swampy w/ excep armor, 150 hit points, and a level 6 no-skill weaving buff for attunement/gift are the basics. Also made a bladed staff specifically for him w/ 70 fatigue. Takes me around 15mins (maybe just under) for a solo run. If things go sideways... +20 mins.

    Its really not worth the time other than for doing the chain quest & hope you don’t get a stupid name/title deed. I did get one white tiger rug - ONCE - after around 60-65 runs. Never gotten one since.
  • ArronArron Posts: 485
    Acid_Rain said:
    He’s very difficult to solo. You must have healing, parry, & bushido to survive his paralyze hits. I use a human warrior tweeked out to eat damage: cap all damage eater, swampy w/ excep armor, 150 hit points, and a level 6 no-skill weaving buff for attunement/gift are the basics. Also made a bladed staff specifically for him w/ 70 fatigue. Takes me around 15mins (maybe just under) for a solo run. If things go sideways... +20 mins.

    Its really not worth the time other than for doing the chain quest & hope you don’t get a stupid name/title deed. I did get one white tiger rug - ONCE - after around 60-65 runs. Never gotten one since.
    Wow!!! Tough with not very good loot. I guess I wont be doing that solo. 
  • JollyJadeJollyJade Posts: 578
    Gosh, sure. Cause the revamps all are so popular.. Keep that junk in eodon please..
    Just a troll who got told by lesser trolls (moderator classification)
  • JollyJadeJollyJade Posts: 578
    edited March 2019
    Kyronix said:
    Conventional wisdom is the greater the difficulty/time-investment of the encounter, the better the loot behind it.
    Word of street is: The greater the number of accounts afk scripting content, the better the loot behind it. "difficulty" :D

    Where did all the legendary artifacts that flooded the market come from? Highly skilled players or an army of dumb 24/7 bots?

    Those cheaters can just keep the items they farmed but you try to tell us about "difficulty/time-investment". Why am I still paying money for this lol.
    Just a troll who got told by lesser trolls (moderator classification)
  • TimTim Posts: 824
    Arron said:
    Acid_Rain said:
    He’s very difficult to solo. You must have healing, parry, & bushido to survive his paralyze hits. I use a human warrior tweeked out to eat damage: cap all damage eater, swampy w/ excep armor, 150 hit points, and a level 6 no-skill weaving buff for attunement/gift are the basics. Also made a bladed staff specifically for him w/ 70 fatigue. Takes me around 15mins (maybe just under) for a solo run. If things go sideways... +20 mins.

    Its really not worth the time other than for doing the chain quest & hope you don’t get a stupid name/title deed. I did get one white tiger rug - ONCE - after around 60-65 runs. Never gotten one since.
    Wow!!! Tough with not very good loot. I guess I wont be doing that solo. 
    Wow and I took him down with just my puppy. It took awhile but it is doable and I just did it for the journey couldn't care less about the reward at the destination.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,276
    Kyronix said:
    Defining which specific encounters you are talking about would be a good start.

    Conventional wisdom is the greater the difficulty/time-investment of the encounter, the better the loot behind it.  I've touched on this topic briefly in other threads, but we do have a substantial imbalance in the core item property loop that needs to be addressed at some point, so dropping high intensity level loot into other encounters before that is essentially a non-starter.  That's a conversation for a different thread though.  We do have quite a bit of bandwidth with cosmetics though, offering new looks and such which you'll start to see more of in the coming publishes.  Expanding that to existing encounters would be a great next step!

    All of them? I don't think there should be a prize in every corpse, but I would love to see a slight increase on chance. At the moment, I get the same quality loot off named creatures (Swoops, Rend, Misima, Red Death ect ect) as I do with quick kills. I just get a lot more of it.

    Quests could use attention as well. I tried the gammon horn quest from heartwood. The loot still reflects ML specs. I have no knowledge of the other time consuming quests.

    Oh and more colorful rideable pets and a crafting upgrade please!

  • The_Higgs_1The_Higgs_1 Posts: 420
    I don't know if the devs know this but currently the true harrower (2nd form) is bugged/ broken right now.  It literally just stands there and doesn't cast its spells or attack physically.  I don't know when it happened in what patch but hes definitely broken.  @Kyronix @Bleak
  • ArronArron Posts: 485
    Tim said:
    Arron said:
    Acid_Rain said:
    He’s very difficult to solo. You must have healing, parry, & bushido to survive his paralyze hits. I use a human warrior tweeked out to eat damage: cap all damage eater, swampy w/ excep armor, 150 hit points, and a level 6 no-skill weaving buff for attunement/gift are the basics. Also made a bladed staff specifically for him w/ 70 fatigue. Takes me around 15mins (maybe just under) for a solo run. If things go sideways... +20 mins.

    Its really not worth the time other than for doing the chain quest & hope you don’t get a stupid name/title deed. I did get one white tiger rug - ONCE - after around 60-65 runs. Never gotten one since.
    Wow!!! Tough with not very good loot. I guess I wont be doing that solo. 
    Wow and I took him down with just my puppy. It took awhile but it is doable and I just did it for the journey couldn't care less about the reward at the destination.
    Good for you Tim. Maybe one day I will try again and finish it this time

  • CetricCetric Posts: 152
    edited March 2019
    Monsters across the board should be made harder, regardless of loot.  Couldn't tell you the last time I died to a mob.  There's like, no risk with monsters and couldn't tell you why.
  • AerodiceAerodice Posts: 9
    I think peerless could use a bump in loot quality, special drop rates and hp/stats based on the number of individuals in the encounter and top attacker lists. Soloing a peerless would cause the boss to have lesser stats but also lesser loot and drop rates whereas fighting a boss with a large group would be more difficult but you would get more loot and better drop rates out of it. This would allow peerless to be viable for both solo and group play.
  • crunchnastycrunchnasty Posts: 241
    cove dungeon (lvl 4), night terrors, peerless, eodon bosses, travesty, pretty much everything except roof and champs
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 404
    Kyronix said:
    Defining which specific encounters you are talking about would be a good start.

    Conventional wisdom is the greater the difficulty/time-investment of the encounter, the better the loot behind it.  I've touched on this topic briefly in other threads, but we do have a substantial imbalance in the core item property loop that needs to be addressed at some point, so dropping high intensity level loot into other encounters before that is essentially a non-starter.  That's a conversation for a different thread though.  We do have quite a bit of bandwidth with cosmetics though, offering new looks and such which you'll start to see more of in the coming publishes.  Expanding that to existing encounters would be a great next step!
    Where do we go to talk about this? Because if "imbalance in the core item property loop" boils down to "game brutally afflicted with Monty Haul syndrome" then it's pretty much the #1 thing we should be talking about, because personally I don't have a clue how you ought to deal with it.
  • SmootSmoot Posts: 411
    i would reduce number of items, but increase item intensity for peerless like dreadhorn, lady mel, travesty etc.

    maybe same intensity as roof or exodus, but only 1/4 the number of items.  i feel this would be a good balance in keeping those encounters relevant, but keeping the loot on par with the lower difficulty.
  • King_GregKing_Greg Posts: 250
    Smoot said:
    i would reduce number of items, but increase item intensity for peerless like dreadhorn, lady mel, travesty etc.

    maybe same intensity as roof or exodus, but only 1/4 the number of items.  i feel this would be a good balance in keeping those encounters relevant, but keeping the loot on par with the lower difficulty.
    The issue there is that you will wind up with the shadowguard effect. Tons of named armor and 0 No named drops.

    I would argue that the easiest solution without investigating the core of the code is for the intensity to be shifted to what Putrifier/abcess were dropping for all Peerless but drop 100 items. Those two mobs were really the ideal window for intensity when wearing 2000+ Luck, Everything from clean ssi 10 jewels, to prized greater artifacts, to named legendary armor, to no name legendary armor. 

    And that's all they really have to do is set a boss to that level and increase the #of items for higher probability of getting something. 
  • SlissSliss Posts: 283
    Aerodice said:
    I think peerless could use a bump in loot quality, special drop rates and hp/stats based on the number of individuals in the encounter and top attacker lists. Soloing a peerless would cause the boss to have lesser stats but also lesser loot and drop rates whereas fighting a boss with a large group would be more difficult but you would get more loot and better drop rates out of it. This would allow peerless to be viable for both solo and group play.
    How would you scale the difficulty for larger group. You can't make them hit harder, because one shot kills will just piss off everyone. So the only way is to raise their HP. And if the HP is raised disproportionately to the group size, it will just drive people to solo again. Current system is far from perfect, but at least solo has a correlation between greater rewards and greater difficulty. 
  • AerodiceAerodice Posts: 9
    Sliss said:
    Aerodice said:
    I think peerless could use a bump in loot quality, special drop rates and hp/stats based on the number of individuals in the encounter and top attacker lists. Soloing a peerless would cause the boss to have lesser stats but also lesser loot and drop rates whereas fighting a boss with a large group would be more difficult but you would get more loot and better drop rates out of it. This would allow peerless to be viable for both solo and group play.
    How would you scale the difficulty for larger group. You can't make them hit harder, because one shot kills will just piss off everyone. So the only way is to raise their HP. And if the HP is raised disproportionately to the group size, it will just drive people to solo again. Current system is far from perfect, but at least solo has a correlation between greater rewards and greater difficulty. 
    This is true, careful adjustments would need to be made, otherwise you can end up with a situation similar to the Shadowguard fountain where it becomes too difficult and even detrimental to take a group over a certain size. Nobody wants a situation like that. 

    HP would be the obvious thing to boost, which would bump a certain amount for each additional person. Anything stat or ability related would be minuscule boosts but nothing to the extent of making it cheap or unfair. Even just raising the HP and the drop rate bonus per additional person would probably be sufficient. 

    The additional difficulty was just a suggestion to scale the loot as an extra incentive and challenge for group play. The standard loot can use an increase or bump, particularly if you are fighting with a group. For loot, peerless ingredients also need some kind of modern use, particularly muculent. Maybe the peerless ingredients can be used to upgrade other UOML artifacts, similar to how the doom gauntlet artifacts were done. 

      
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