The deeply flawed state of the game. @Devs

Mervyn · March 2019

Also, dare i ask what you mean exactly by number 2?

Do you mean that it can't be purged and remains after death? as i beleived this was a bug and so submitted a report but was informed this is intended.

Nikard · March 2019

There is an active bug that allows you to permanently keep +2 Faster casting from the town buffs, in addition to still being able to claim the town buff [+3 FC Total]

King_Greg · March 2019

Nikard said:

There is an active bug that allows you to permanently keep +2 Faster casting from the town buffs, in addition to still being able to claim the town buff [+3 FC Total]

If you know how it works then report it. If you don't then try to figure it out. Of course as mervyn has shown it can take a while to fix bugs.

Lynk · March 2019

Let me get this straight. Nikard knows how to get to 3 fc with no fc on jewels and he still cant fit meditation on a necro? This might not be the game for you.

Tjalle · March 2019

Lynk said:

Programs? The only programs that exist that impact PvP in any way is the ability to replicate features that exist within EC. There is nothing that any program does that EC can't do natively.

And are you a user of said illegal programs?

Mervyn · March 2019

I used to condemn people for using speed hack on CC, but when they say they are only doing it to keep up with EC running speed. What do I say?

Cookie · March 2019

Nikard said:

6. Have a pass at all of the inferior templates [Like bards, tamers, ect.] and give them a reason to be played. My sampire out performs all of these classes at almost everything in the game. That is dumb.

Mervyn said:

With regards to number 6. I propose that Vampiric embrace should require Spirit Speak, all other necro spells require Spirit speak to be effective.

They should scale the life leech effect determined on the spirit speak skill, much like the mana leech effect in wraith form is determined by spirit speak.

I was hoping someone else would say this at some point. Because due to fear of negative feedback, the devs only go ahead with my suggestions if they have exhausted all other alternatives.

I agree.

I've campaigned heavily against this for years.

They aren't listening to me either on this one.

Lynk · March 2019

Tjalle said:

Lynk said:

Programs? The only programs that exist that impact PvP in any way is the ability to replicate features that exist within EC. There is nothing that any program does that EC can't do natively.

And are you a user of said illegal programs?

I'm a purist. I dont even use UOAssist now that I can have arm weapon and consumeable macros in the client directly.

Mervyn · March 2019

And a loner,
as uoam/uoc can’t track you without it. And why would you give up range check last target?

Lynk · March 2019

Makes the game too easy. I usually say "im by the big clump of trees southwest of the winery".

Sometimes I even double click my potions to drink them for nostalgia.

Uriah_Heep · March 2019

How about we get rid of my spirit not having the cohesion to go thru a gate?

Victim_Of_Siege · March 2019

Uriah_Heep said:

How about we get rid of my spirit not having the cohesion to go thru a gate?

you should add some fiber to your diet, all them carbs are weighing you down.

CovenantX · March 2019

Mervyn said:

I used to condemn people for using speed hack on CC, but when they say they are only doing it to keep up with EC running speed. What do I say?

Ask why they used a speed hack before EC existed.

Cookie said:

Nikard said:

6. Have a pass at all of the inferior templates [Like bards, tamers, ect.] and give them a reason to be played. My sampire out performs all of these classes at almost everything in the game. That is dumb.

Mervyn said:

With regards to number 6. I propose that Vampiric embrace should require Spirit Speak, all other necro spells require Spirit speak to be effective.

They should scale the life leech effect determined on the spirit speak skill, much like the mana leech effect in wraith form is determined by spirit speak.

I was hoping someone else would say this at some point. Because due to fear of negative feedback, the devs only go ahead with my suggestions if they have exhausted all other alternatives.

I agree.
I've campaigned heavily against this for years.
They aren't listening to me either on this one.

I know I've seen that mentioned before. That wouldn't really fix the problem though.

Wammies already have spiritspeak, (i use a wammie more than a sampire -though I have both) and the wammie is far more versatile in terms of what it can kill.

that method would bring the sampire down, and leave casters where they are. (dexers would still be far superior in high-end content, if that were the only change made).

Suggestions to bring casters more in-line with sampire & wammies damage wise (pvm only) would be:

1) Casting Focus should spawn in increments of 5-20%, and have a 100% cap, but no longer proc against player-based interruptions.

2) Add at least, mana & life leech properties to spellbooks (which has already been suggested in this thread)

3) Slayer Talismans should apply their 'slayer bonus' to both spells and weapon damage.

(this also opens up new potential reward items for future or existing content updates, as most all slayer talismans existing now spawn with basically dexer-oriented properties)

Mervyn · March 2019

Covenant #1 sounds like that would further devide having one suit for pvm and another for pvp. Which I don’t think is a good idea.
You already have 100% casting focus on pvm with protection spell. You already have mana leech with spells with wraith form. Maybe they should make lich form do life leech with spells.

have you tried using the death ray spell with a slayer spell book in wraith form? It’s not bad at all.
They introduced rising colossus and it’s so easy to get level 6 spellweaving circle for word of death now too. Casters are not as crap for pvm as they used to be especially with the 50 sdi spellbooks.

CovenantX · March 2019

Mervyn said:

Covenant #1 sounds like that would further devide having one suit for pvm and another for pvp. Which I don’t think is a good idea.
You already have 100% casting focus on pvm with protection spell. You already have mana leech with spells with wraith form. Maybe they should make lich form do life leech with spells.

have you tried using the death ray spell with a slayer spell book in wraith form? It’s not bad at all.
They introduced rising colossus and it’s so easy to get level 6 spellweaving circle for word of death now too. Casters are not as crap for pvm as they used to be especially with the 50 sdi spellbooks.

Not really, casting focus is already on most pvp suits... it's actually somewhat difficult to find high-end mage pieces without CF on it tbh.

of course for it to effect current suits those changes would have to be retroactive. people that went out of their way to get max CF (now 12/17%) would basically be uninterruptible from NPC's damage. but buffing that portion up would certainly upset far fewer players than nerfing sampires down, even if it is just a little bit. besides, there's already a major imbalance between the ways mages perform vs dexers when it comes to PvM, but it's basically reversed in Pvp. this would bring them far more inline with each other in pvm.

Xare · March 2019

Kyronix said:

I don't have an opportunity to go into a great degree of detail right now other than to say that that any argument that starts with "deeply flawed" and then goes on to extol its arguments (some of which are terribly short sighted and misinformed) as being the sole solution to our "many problems" makes me wonder how we've survived for more than two decades. Alas, here we are.

That being said we look forward to a future conversation on how we can best balance a variety of aspects in the game world with regard to power creep and keeping the content engaging.

Thanks for the feedback!

Wow. Look, first take a moment to acknowledge that not all of us can make a nice post and get a point across. Try to look at what he's saying past the jargon. Simply shutting down people like this is what @Rorschach does, and has led to me canceling both my accounts. We all have a passion for this game; telling people you don't have the time to go into a "great degree of detail" (did you even go into any?) and just telling them that they're wrong is not the answer. Like mama always said, if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing at all?

LearnMe said:

What templates have I seen in just the past week of pvp? Weave mages, 4/6 chiv toons, mystic macers, bok mages, GARGOYLE weaving throwers, chiv throwers, stealth dpers, weaving archers, nox archers, evasion ninja mages, mystic parry mages, healing mages, tactics mages, plain archers, then throw in the extra templates I run that I listed above. So 15+ variations of templates I can recall off the top of my head running around yew gate and spawns in the past week.

I'm not going to get involved in the pvp debate, because its going to degenerate into what it usually does, but how many of those templates have you seen in the last week that actually did well.

hunter11 · March 2019

The_Higgs_1 said:

Lynk said:

The_Higgs_1 said:

I think its funny how evasion is all of a sudden the main issue according to these people. Until 840 skill increase templates no one said evasion was broken. Before if you wanted to run a Bokuto mage you had to choose between resist or parry, now you get to have both. The skill not having a cap is definitely the issue. If you think otherwise your an idiot. Still waiting to see if they do put a nerf on parry or not, that conversation seems to have disappeared. Right now pvp is just run around for 5-10 minutes, attempt a dump, then run around again for ten minutes. That is not fun pvp, its dumb as hell. 3rd party programs also needs addressed, I still don't understand why it hasn't been addressed. The word collusion comes to mind.

Pvm could be upgraded fairly easily just by adding leechs to spellbooks to give them the same power as sampires. Only other thing as far as pvp goes is make a break point for 4/6 when combined with certain skills like bushido. 4/6 plus bushido shouldn't exist.

A bokuto mage requires 760 skill points. Thats +40 points. Is that a lot of + skill? No it isn't.

Higgs, we crushed you on chessy last night with 4 people vs your 6 and we were all on 2012 reforged/imbued suits without a single evader. The reason you lose is lack of ability and coordination.

Parry is OP? You play a parry wrestle mystic (Tigris) on ATL and you die all the time. Exactly how OP is it again? The only thing that is OP is evasion.

Programs? The only programs that exist that impact PvP in any way is the ability to replicate features that exist within EC. There is nothing that any program does that EC can't do natively.

Your understanding of how PvP takes place is incredibly flawed. You guys don't even PvP. We had to scout chesapeake just to find you guys hiding. Do you think chaining spawns on a dead server is PvP?

It isn't attempt a dump and run for 10 minutes. Most fights last under 5 minutes, after that the losing team has lost 30% of their force and is trying to escape.

LOLOL. Youd didn't crush anyone and stop taking personal swipes with your lies. My char is a necro parry mage and he has died less then five times since I made him and I have killed over 400 people, Its OP as hell. LOL I like how you use EC and a reason to cheat and use 3rd party programs. If EC was that OP in pvp everyone would be using EC, another lie. We pvp more then just you scrubs, you wouldn't know cause only fight at yew gayte. All I ever see is you running from people no matter how many you have, then you try to snyc someone and if it fails we chase you for at least ten more minutes before you try again. Your boring to pvp against that's why your a yew gater.

I don't believe he was trying to justify using third party programs. I also know that a lot of us do not wish to play enhanced client it is ugly, and i personally refuse to learn how to play it because of how different it is. There are a lot of advantages to using enhanced client such as, the ability to run around obstacles. You talk about illegal third party programs as if they make someone a god, they don't most of the people who use said programs could use assist and be just fine. What someone chooses to use has no concern to me, ill beat them in the regular classic client with no assist because of the new macros. You really do not pvp, i'm a seasonal worker who doesn't work most of the winter months i'm on most of the time and I scout spawns often I hardly ever see you online in a pvp setting higgs, however I did tonight and we know what happened.. that's aside from the point, and yes gargoyles cannot have 50hci but they do have an extra five to start building with making it much easier. Each class should have different strengths and weaknesses, its how things work it makes sense to me. Why do you care how much skill a person runs it creates its own weaknesses in a template to run that many skill points, and it increases diversity in pvp and pvm templates. Then we have evasion, it has always been an issue a person shouldn't be able to take a 8 man dump and live, it just doesn't seem right to be able to take that much potential damage and just walk away... I'm sure i have missed a ton of things and didn't get much of a point across, but i would like to see the concern about templates and running skill increase go away, they made the mark of the travesty, the obi de ense and all of the skill talismans plus many many many more items/ jewels with this for a reason.

JollyJade · March 2019

You either get no response or if you get lucky a response how your question hurt their feelings..

Cetric · March 2019

I could actually get behind a + skill bonus cap of some nature. say +50/80 or something. the only question would be how do you prioritize which skills + from stuff, like if you have a jewel with 45 skill but ur only using 15 of it.

The nature of losing template counter-ability, being replaced with everyone has high offense, high defense has gotten a bit silly, and makes the curve to enter pvp cumbersome if ur some guy with maybe +35 and there's a dude with like +120 and also exploiting the jewel swapping mechanic for another + whatever but their suits are otherwise on equal footing creates a heavy imbalance. Sure that better suited player may have way better stats or regens but creating an ability to add That much more skill is a bit absurd. ur basically giving a guy parry who shouldn't get it, or animal form, or poisoning etc in a build that they would otherwise have multiple 'counter'.templates

Which is another thing that should be fixed, swapping on jewels/skill bonus pieces to achieve +50 of something like ninja to add animal form into templates that it has no business being in is dumb.

Mervyn · March 2019

Cetric said:

I could actually get behind a + skill bonus cap of some nature. say +50/80 or something. the only question would be how do you prioritize which skills + from stuff, like if you have a jewel with 45 skill but ur only using 15 of it.

The nature of losing template counter-ability, being replaced with everyone has high offense, high defense has gotten a bit silly, and makes the curve to enter pvp cumbersome if ur some guy with maybe +35 and there's a dude with like +120 and also exploiting the jewel swapping mechanic for another + whatever but their suits are otherwise on equal footing creates a heavy imbalance. Sure that better suited player may have way better stats or regens but creating an ability to add That much more skill is a bit absurd. ur basically giving a guy parry who shouldn't get it, or animal form, or poisoning etc in a build that they would otherwise have multiple 'counter'.templates

Which is another thing that should be fixed, swapping on jewels/skill bonus pieces to achieve +50 of something like ninja to add animal form into templates that it has no business being in is dumb.

That's funny, I don't see anyone chiming in here:
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/2681/dress-macro-both-clients-still-not-behaving-correctly

It basically looks like i'm the only one who this affecting despite the fact that fel is all but DEAD on everywhere but ATL. How about people actually post in support rather than leaving me to defend against the selfish exploiters who want to keep this bug so they can continue cheating to swap to luck suit for last hit on monsters.

For evil to triumph, all it needs is for good men to do nothing.

The_Higgs_1 · March 2019

ya either a skip cap or do something like where real skill is only way to maximize damage. Like if you run 80 real eval and rest is in skill bonus then you should have a lower spell damage output. Do it for all skills like that and itll take away those templates.

Mervyn · March 2019

on a bok mage, tactics and bushido already need to be real skill and to some degree swords too. You want to add eval to the list of useless plus skill properties?

Cetric · March 2019

i like this idea @Mervyn rather than try to over-code dress macros:

One idea - rather than mess too much with it, what about adding a delay to your skill bonus when equipped. Say you put on a mark of travesty with +10 Magery and +10 Eval. You get a system message "Your Skill Bonus items Will Activate in 30s" 30 seconds pass and you get the messages "Magery gained +10.0 it is now 120" etc.

Captain_Lucky · March 2019

Kyronix said:

I don't have an opportunity to go into a great degree of detail right now other than to say that that any argument that starts with "deeply flawed" and then goes on to extol its arguments (some of which are terribly short sighted and misinformed) as being the sole solution to our "many problems" makes me wonder how we've survived for more than two decades. Alas, here we are.

That being said we look forward to a future conversation on how we can best balance a variety of aspects in the game world with regard to power creep and keeping the content engaging.

Thanks for the feedback!

Kyronix for president!

Bilbo · March 2019

AMEN!!!!! @Captain_Lucky

Howdy, Stranger!

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The deeply flawed state of the game. @Devs

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