A Statement to Broadsword and the Classic experience

Ahua · November 21

@KroDuK

you make good points, and I've heard people complain similarly on Atlantic about the huge guilds: when they decide to do an event or a spawn they just get everything while everyone is scrambling to land just one hit.

But we didn't go to the moon because it was easy... a balanced classic UO or UO inspired gameplay has never been achieved, in any game, we would know about it, I assume you're also a old timer.

I can speak as both a designer and a philosopher here, the IP's own original mechanics, allow for it to be possible and fun, and very much balanced. Like you would not even get one complaint, I could guarantee it.

Its so hard not to talk about it and subsequently ruin the mystery...

Its a very, very complex design that clearly does not belong on the public forum. My goal here is not to pinpoint all those issues or pitfalls. I would just like to see minimal compassion, humility in the face of a whole playstyle that has been ostracized and fractured but that did exist, gloriously so. People that also got ganked, also got abused by hackers, also couldn't access dungeons sometimes. But still enjoyed it all, in retrospect, 25 years later. Enough to care by walking forward in the spotlight to say "yay". I could not let this thread end like this, it might end, but not like this.

Ahua · November 21

There is still so much content I have yet to see, even some expansions I have yet to buy, enough for me to enjoy Atlantic for a long time ... I'm truly impressed with such a small team.

So I'd double down and say that if it takes potential investment away from production shards, its all the same bad idea. Which sadly reduces its chances of becoming reality drastically.

Its just one opportunity among many others... all I can say is that this one contains magic and could become as big a revolution as U4 was to RPGs.

Lord_Nythrax · November 21

They spent five years working on that fugly seasonal shard with the bad portraits and the game fell apart so badly that the official clients became semi-abandonware in the interim and third parties effectively took control of client development.

Please no more kook projects, just work on the game.

Ahua · November 21

not one constructive phrase... so New Legacy wasn't for you. If you have grudges you can take them to another thread, this thread will not suddenly cause the devs to create a new shard as I'm pretty sure no thread caused New Legacy. They will do whatever they want and can do, like every studio ever, you certainly won't get anywhere with such an attitude.

I personally loved every moment I spent on New Legacy, even the portraits, its meant to be old school and bring back old Ultima IP. I absolutely love the idea and execution, and I'm glad they did it, it felt like a gift made just for me. I'm also using the enhanced client and I'm not having any problems playing the game as intended. Also got a few hotfixes since I came back, so I'd say its going along as planned.

Seriously the only thing that was lacking on New Legacy was the community, it felt like a single player experience for me, and is literally the only negative point imo.

KroDuK · November 22

I was having way more fun on the 4th coming NMS revolution server than playing NL. (the NMS server has like 13 players)

NL left such a bad taste in my mouth.. knowing the same dev are dealing with official UO for soo many yearsss.. To me, it brang back all those bad memories and let down since ~2006.

But yeah, the key to success here would be AoS era, but u address stuff instead of making it 20 time worst.. When u have the money from the succesfull product that is UO.. you could work on a passion project à la NL but for what u want a full loot classic SANDBOX shard, that would kill the illegal servers.

We just dreaming tho.. They can't even deliver the part one of the CC FPS and window size upgrade that was promise to us for summer 2025.. they legit went radio silence.. wich is a shame.

Edit: to me NL is for UO what DBZ Evolution is for DBZ:

Ahua · November 22

I don't think we should exclude much content from classic, as long as its cannon I guess, and it should be also deployed in a way that is cannon too. These are details honestly, the core mechanics is what matters. I like all expansions but some things don't make sense for classic, economy is the most complex subject. It takes a whole village to raise a child, and it takes a whole team to raise a village. So this is not something they can whip up together in a few weeks anyways, it has to be precise and moderated at first. So these details would fall into artistic liberty of the people in charge.

I hear you, but I have a completely different perspective on it, as I'm sure we all do.

If you talk like this (saying their ideas is crap without anything constructive) to people, who clearly work hard (I can tell I've been a dev for 20 years now)... why do you think they don't reply anymore? You should act like your age. This stuff is hard, working with older technology is even harder, then the whole thing has an inertia of its own you can't really let go once the gears are in motion. Have a little compassion, sit, look in the mirror and speak like you would love to be spoken to.

Just leave your grievances in their respective threads and we'll coexist just fine. You made your point, and I agree there are great things about AoS that would fit a classic shard. And remember its not about picking a moment in time, its about the structure itself.

Lord_Nythrax · November 22

Ahua said:

If I stick to NES again to remain concise, Exodus had you only save at the inn in LB's castle (an actual save like Zelda), if your whole party died, you had to take up an older save point, effectively losing a lot of time. You could also lose gear or temple/magic if you chose to res instead of reloading. It was risky.

Then in Quest of the Avatar, they I think intentionally moved to passwords, if your party wiped it was game over and you had to use the last code, lots of lost time.

Then in Warriors of Destiny, still passwords, if you did res you would lose experience, penalty scaled with karma.

By the way, there has never been an Ultima game with password saves. Not on home computers, not on console, not even in weird Japan-only ports.

Ahua · November 22

Oh you are probably right I just pulled from old memory, the point was there were penalties, and losing progress or time was the standard. But at that point it wasn't you die you start over completely, but dying still had consequences. It could have been more forgiving like Zelda, but they intentionally designed it this way.

KroDuK · November 22

Ahua said:

And remember its not about picking a moment in time, its about the structure itself.

You lost track of reality while typing your post.. this part proving it. The structure we (you and I) talking about is risk vs reward and the moment in time is the key moment to the solution.. Full Loot is a niche to a niche.. let's rebuild the main structure before working on a niche for the niche... what the actual team is doing via NL.. I understand your POV, but look in that mirror without pink glasses son.. I already done that from my part.

Just to give you a small example of the mirror activity i've done.. if they bring AoS and artifact.. do it.. WITH RNG ROLLS ON ARTIFACT.. so in 10 years we might have one perfect artifact.. great for sandbox. You LIMIT THEM in numbers we don't need thousands of OP and OP'ers artifact on top of limiting their OP'ness without limiting their potential... just a few of them per POI with random rolls on them. TADA! yearssss of content.

Another dumb example.. for champions that should have been done in the early 2000.. some champ should drop more of certain PS.. like the harder one should have higher roll for better PS.. so Piper ain't the go to for most people. TADA! Multiplication of real optimize POI!!

I got a shit load of solution like that.. cuz unlike you I did what u want me to do but without pink glasses on and a functionning brain, with tons of top tier experiences.

If u want me to rub *snip*'s back, before feeding them solution.. try again. or change something from the formula.. I know what part I would change personally.

PS: I realise you just fishing for solution for NL.. the answer to that problem is *12 inch in front the screen*
Give us part one of CC upgrade that was promise for summer 2025, before asking for anything else. It's give/give.. We (me and myself) still hvn'T receive a thing.. other than slapss in the face.

PS2: if the dev ego gets in their way to do a good job cuz they are hurting to come ask for answers.. the problem is not on me.. but on that EGO, that shouldn't even exist in the first place.

Y'all acting like UO was too old to be popular and gets hundreds of thousands of real players.. when in fact this is his strong point.. Tonsssss of dead content cuz of *snip* and being able to run on a toaster!!!!!! Just make a good product instead of making it worst since ~2006.

Edit: btw the solution u fishing for about NL is f'ing RP.. dev more RP tools for the full loot NL.. it gonna add a meaning to the frustration, theorycrafting and limit it. But again.. u'd ask how.. wich is a huge problem, want us to do it for you? Cuz I for sure, won't feed anything for NL.. *whisper* the Legacy part!!

Ahua · November 22

What you are missing isn't rose glasses, its a little compassion. You skipped that part probably intentionally, its ok I forgive you.

I do think your ideas have merit, I've thought about those you mentioned too when replying to you and considering AoS (they're obvious). Its easy to find the solutions from outside, when nothing has any lasting consequences on the rest of your or your coworker's lives or player base. But I'm reading around here and it seems every single thing they attempt is bad, according to a few louder people who also flame those who attempt to remain positive. But they are still here, playing and hoping (obviously). Would be hard not to argue that if they are still here, it is because the devs do some things better than free shards. If you pay for a service you're not fully happy about, and you still chose to pay while free options exist, its because you do appreciate many things.

Sometimes, especially during transitions like this, devs need fans to focus a little bit more on those aspects to really keep a good flow and not always be second-guessing. I did not attack the content of your posts, but the way you vehiculate them. You think they did not read your posts and slapped you in the face? I can tell you they did read them, every single one. All my dev friend without exception do, I do not miss a single post by one of my fans, even if it means I'm going to sleep very little, not a single one ever. But sometimes I cannot reply, focusing on that instead of continuing to design is often a very bad idea. In this particular context they'd spend more time wondering if they are catering to the right people than actually developing.

It seems to me like you'd only be happy if a dev posted a video of himself crying on the floor, stuck in a dark void of despair. What good would that do to us? 0.

This isn't such a mainstream game anymore, and you don't have rose colored glasses you have brown colored glasses, and a lot of pride, which I'm not going to assume is warranted or not. It's kind of paradoxical if you ask me.

It shows you have not sat in a designer's seat, while its leaking customers, while you attempt to fix problems and others pop up, when what you thought would be your best decision turned out to be snubbed because of other issues you are perhaps temporarily powerless about and people can't let it go.

I agree that communication is key, but honestly I have been around, and I've hardly seen better in the same context. Look at the UO forums, every UO forum actually, they are quieter than ever, only a few vocal people remain arguing about actual gameplay and the future, rest is item and event questions. One of hand you look at your numbers and think its ok, its holding, or maybe slightly better so you get a little motivation, then on the other hand you get very vocal players complaining about specific issues that you try to fix, while ending up unable to take the time to communicate why you skipped or were unable to apply certain fixes without wasting time.

Compassion means being able to switch seats, for a moment, then coming back to yours and focusing on that lowest common denominator of that shared passion. You clearly have a passion for this game, so do I, so do they. I would never ask you to pat anyone on the back arbitrarily, but to speak like you would like to be spoken to, if you were in that seat and things looked that bleak.

Niche of a niche, is pretty much where we are at right now.

I also see on the broadsword website that they are fully committed to financial and state transparency. Why do you think we don't get this direct transparency?

Because of ego? ridiculous... imo its just because it would hurt more than it would help, objectively. And how do you feel about that? Are you happy or can you have compassion and understand that maybe you should express yourself differently?

Maybe you're a much better UO player than I am, I've been away too long to argue that, but you've got your nose dug so deep into the niche of the niche that you only see a few feet in front of you.

At least I got you to share a few constructive opinions, so its all good.

Grimbeard · November 22

Ahua said:

What you are missing isn't rose glasses, its a little compassion. You skipped that part probably intentionally, its ok I forgive you.

I do think your ideas have merit, I've thought about those you mentioned too when replying to you and considering AoS (they're obvious). Its easy to find the solutions from outside, when nothing has any lasting consequences on the rest of your or your coworker's lives or player base. But I'm reading around here and it seems every single thing they attempt is bad, according to a few louder people who also flame those who attempt to remain positive. But they are still here, playing and hoping (obviously). Would be hard not to argue that if they are still here, it is because the devs do some things better than free shards. If you pay for a service you're not fully happy about, and you still chose to pay while free options exist, its because you do appreciate many things.

Sometimes, especially during transitions like this, devs need fans to focus a little bit more on those aspects to really keep a good flow and not always be second-guessing. I did not attack the content of your posts, but the way you vehiculate them. You think they did not read your posts and slapped you in the face? I can tell you they did read them, every single one. All my dev friend without exception do, I do not miss a single post by one of my fans, even if it means I'm going to sleep very little, not a single one ever. But sometimes I cannot reply, focusing on that instead of continuing to design is often a very bad idea. In this particular context they'd spend more time wondering if they are catering to the right people than actually developing.

It seems to me like you'd only be happy if a dev posted a video of himself crying on the floor, stuck in a dark void of despair. What good would that do to us? 0.

This isn't such a mainstream game anymore, and you don't have rose colored glasses you have brown colored glasses, and a lot of pride, which I'm not going to assume is warranted or not. It's kind of paradoxical if you ask me.

It shows you have not sat in a designer's seat, while its leaking customers, while you attempt to fix problems and others pop up, when what you thought would be your best decision turned out to be snubbed because of other issues you are perhaps temporarily powerless about and people can't let it go.

I agree that communication is key, but honestly I have been around, and I've hardly seen better in the same context. Look at the UO forums, every UO forum actually, they are quieter than ever, only a few vocal people remain arguing about actual gameplay and the future, rest is item and event questions. One of hand you look at your numbers and think its ok, its holding, or maybe slightly better so you get a little motivation, then on the other hand you get very vocal players complaining about specific issues that you try to fix, while ending up unable to take the time to communicate why you skipped or were unable to apply certain fixes without wasting time.

Compassion means being able to switch seats, for a moment, then coming back to yours and focusing on that lowest common denominator of that shared passion. You clearly have a passion for this game, so do I, so do they. I would never ask you to pat anyone on the back arbitrarily, but to speak like you would like to be spoken to, if you were in that seat and things looked that bleak.

Niche of a niche, is pretty much where we are at right now.

I also see on the broadsword website that they are fully committed to financial and state transparency. Why do you think we don't get this direct transparency?

Because of ego? ridiculous... imo its just because it would hurt more than it would help, objectively. And how do you feel about that? Are you happy or can you have compassion and understand that maybe you should express yourself differently?

Maybe you're a much better UO player than I am, I've been away too long to argue that, but you've got your nose dug so deep into the niche of the niche that you only see a few feet in front of you.

At least I got you to share a few constructive opinions, so its all good.

Keep 8n mind that particular troll doesn't even play

Ahua · November 23

@Grimbeard

yeah I'm just figuring this out... I assumed since he was here, he must be paying for an account?

Grimbeard · November 23

Ahua said:

@ Grimbeard

yeah I'm just figuring this out... I assumed since he was here, he must be paying for an account?

Yes to quote him "to help make game better "

Ahua · November 23

a game he does not recognize... while accusing others of shady logic and design fishing? yup... makes sense.

KroDuK · November 23

Ahua said:

What you are missing isn't rose glasses, its a little compassion.

Thank you, your opinion is noted.

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A Statement to Broadsword and the Classic experience

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