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Blacksmith Bods - Obvious Bug/Incorrect Points

TheoTheo Posts: 261
edited May 20 in General Discussions
I can't believe its taken me this long to notice this and its in black and white in the bod reward tables. 

The Iron Large 5 (Fencing) gives more points than the Iron Large 6 piece (Swords/Axe/Macing).  Despite the 6's requiring more ingots and one more bod - the rewards are better (both immediate claim and banked).   Looks like its messed up. The points for the 5 should be the 6 and the points for the 6 should be the 5.   There is no reason a 5 part bod should give more points than a 6 part weapon bod.  

Also as we've all known Chainmail requires 3 bods and Ringmail requires 4 bods yet Ringmail gives worse rewards/points.   Another bod mistake.  



I knew about the Chain/Ring debacle but I guess I never realized fencing was a 5 part bod with more points.  Sharing the work i was doing to calculate the most efficient bods for banked points.  Its of course fencing by far since it uses the least amount of ingots and has the most rewards. 

Here is my work in case anyone is interested.  

Comments

  • Community ManagerCommunity Manager Posts: 557Dev
    edited May 21
    You have the difference between Chain and Ring because in the realm of UO, Ringmail is inferior to Chainmail.

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  • TheoTheo Posts: 261
    Community Manager said:
    You have the difference between Chain and Ring because in the realm of UO, Ringmail is inferior to Chainmail.

    How is it inferior? In what way?  Bod points should be about level of effort for rewards. Both ring and chain are stupid easy to make exceptional. Ring large takes 4 bods and more ingots.  Chain only takes 3 and less ingots. As it is all ring mail bods get thrown out.  Why would you do them when chain is less ingots and less bods for more points?  It makes no sense. You might as well delete ring bods in this system because the point disparity makes them worthless. 
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,379
    edited May 22
    Theo said:
    You have the difference between Chain and Ring because in the realm of UO, Ringmail is inferior to Chainmail.

    How is it inferior? In what way?  Bod points should be about level of effort for rewards. Both ring and chain are stupid easy to make exceptional. Ring large takes 4 bods and more ingots.  Chain only takes 3 and less ingots. As it is all ring mail bods get thrown out.  Why would you do them when chain is less ingots and less bods for more points?  It makes no sense. You might as well delete ring bods in this system because the point disparity makes them worthless. 
    I would imagine they are referencing the skill required to craft the Armor. it's almost double for Chain, as compared to Ring. But not like it's hard for either



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  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,464Moderator
    I'm sorry, but this is not a 'bug', it is a deliberate decision by developers.
  • TheoTheo Posts: 261
    Mariah said:
    I'm sorry, but this is not a 'bug', it is a deliberate decision by developers.
    Negating 1/3 of the bods that drop is a bug. Why have them then? 

    Mariah explain to me why a 5 piece weapon bod gets more points than the three 6 piece weapon bods.  Please.  It’s a mistake and you keep digging heels in about it for 15 years? This is why this game is where it’s at.  A simple fix to correct the points is all that’s needed. It’s not the smalls just the larges.  That’s it.  

    But instead let’s keep calling it design choices when it’s obvious to anyone sane that it’s a clear mistake.  

    Forget the chain (which again means all ring bods get thrown out).  Why does a 5 piece fencing large get more points than a 6 piece mace, swords, or axe bod?  Fencing weapons are superior? 

    Admit a mistake and fix it. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,780
    Theo said:
    Mariah said:
    I'm sorry, but this is not a 'bug', it is a deliberate decision by developers.
    Negating 1/3 of the bods that drop is a bug. Why have them then? 

    Mariah explain to me why a 5 piece weapon bod gets more points than the three 6 piece weapon bods.  Please.  It’s a mistake and you keep digging heels in about it for 15 years? This is why this game is where it’s at.  A simple fix to correct the points is all that’s needed. It’s not the smalls just the larges.  That’s it.  

    But instead let’s keep calling it design choices when it’s obvious to anyone sane that it’s a clear mistake.  

    Forget the chain (which again means all ring bods get thrown out).  Why does a 5 piece fencing large get more points than a 6 piece mace, swords, or axe bod?  Fencing weapons are superior? 

    Admit a mistake and fix it. 
    How bout you stop ignoring the person who chose the points telling you why the points were chosen that way?  
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,464Moderator
    Well, I'm not a mind reader, and I'm not a dev,  but I suspect that difficulty to craft came into their calculations, where it doesn't in yours.
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 1,134
    edited May 23
    Theo said:

    But instead let’s keep calling it design choices when it’s obvious to anyone sane that it’s a clear mistake.  
    Take what I said with a grain of salt, cuz I can't even remember if I read that or something I notice while doing test to understand some WTF..

    Pretty sure for stuff like chain vs ring.. the design for bank point was set by using the NPC selling price.


    Cuz I agree with the some of the non sense here.. I wouldn't call it a mistake tho, more like cutting corners shorts.


    Theo said:
    Forget the chain (which again means all ring bods get thrown out).  Why does a 5 piece fencing large get more points than a 6 piece mace, swords, or axe bod?  Fencing weapons are superior? 

    Same look at the NPC vendor price. Let me know if i'm wrong.. but pretty sure I was near something..
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to automate the game.

    It’s comical to me you are so frightened of somehow bod scripters get some sort of advantage.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • TheoTheo Posts: 261
    Mariah said:
    Well, I'm not a mind reader, and I'm not a dev,  but I suspect that difficulty to craft came into their calculations, where it doesn't in yours.
    If that were the case then explain to me why 6 piece Leather tailor are the most points and the much much much much harder Bone armor is less points (5 piece).  Bone should have the very highest points by your logic here.  

    You are just guessing and defending a mistake but your logic doesn't make sense because for tailor Bone and Studded Larges are less points (5 piece) than 6 piece male and female armor which are both far easier to craft.  

    Bone Armor Crafting Minimums (Armor 96, Arms 92, Gloves 89, Helmet 85, Leggings 95).  

    Male Leather Armor Minimums (Gloves 51.8, Gorget 53.9, Leggings, 66.3, Sleeves 53.9, Tunic 70.5).  

    By your logic here - bone armor should have far more points for a 5 piece large and it doesn't.  Leather 6 PIECE is the most points because...its 6 pieces not 5. 
  • TheoTheo Posts: 261
    KroDuK said:



    Theo said:
    Forget the chain (which again means all ring bods get thrown out).  Why does a 5 piece fencing large get more points than a 6 piece mace, swords, or axe bod?  Fencing weapons are superior? 

    Same look at the NPC vendor price. Let me know if i'm wrong.. but pretty sure I was near something..
    Fencing items are not more expensive than axes.   Axes are the most expensive but then a 6 piece Axe large gives less points then a fencing one (daggers, kryss, war fork, spear, short spear),  Axes is Axe, Battle Axe, Lg Battle Axe, Two-handed Axe, Executioners Axe, Double Axe).  
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 1,134
    Rip
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to automate the game.

    It’s comical to me you are so frightened of somehow bod scripters get some sort of advantage.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,421
    Theo said:
    Mariah said:
    Well, I'm not a mind reader, and I'm not a dev,  but I suspect that difficulty to craft came into their calculations, where it doesn't in yours.
    If that were the case then explain to me why 6 piece Leather tailor are the most points and the much much much much harder Bone armor is less points (5 piece).  Bone should have the very highest points by your logic here.  

    You are just guessing and defending a mistake but your logic doesn't make sense because for tailor Bone and Studded Larges are less points (5 piece) than 6 piece male and female armor which are both far easier to craft.  

    Bone Armor Crafting Minimums (Armor 96, Arms 92, Gloves 89, Helmet 85, Leggings 95).  

    Male Leather Armor Minimums (Gloves 51.8, Gorget 53.9, Leggings, 66.3, Sleeves 53.9, Tunic 70.5).  

    By your logic here - bone armor should have far more points for a 5 piece large and it doesn't.  Leather 6 PIECE is the most points because...its 6 pieces not 5. 

    Check.Mate. Sounds like someone actually crafts lol.

    Sounds like you have a fair point.... I think it's likely one of the many things in UO that was (and has been) overlooked and at this point I'd just chalk it up "one of UO's many quirks" rather than try to reason it out and spend energy trying to change it.
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