Ultima Online in 2025 and beyond -- Classic UO!

MacroPlanet · January 1

With the release of New Legacy and Broadsword's renewed dedication to maintaining and evolving Ultima Online in 2024, now is the perfect time to focus on shaping UO's future. A true classic shard could be the next big step to achieve this.

I’m not talking about another seasonal shard that blends modern and new elements. I mean a full-on, authentic classic Ultima Online experience—one that captures the magic of UO in its early days. Recently, I revisited my old Ultima Online: The Second Age disc and even played through the demo. To my surprise, the old world build is already fully decorated with some of it's old code injected, showcasing the potential to craft a complete, playable experience rooted in UO’s origins.

This isn’t just about nostalgia. A classic shard could reinvigorate the player base, drawing back those who have drifted away over the years and attracting players who currently seek this experience on grey-shards. The demand is real—people crave that raw, unfiltered UO magic that made the game revolutionary. Revisiting the 1998 demo reminded me just how captivating the game was back then, and I believe Broadsword has the tools and opportunity to bring that experience back to life.

By embracing UO’s past, Broadsword could secure its future—revitalizing its community and proving that Ultima Online is as timeless as ever.

Happy New Year everyone!

Pawain · January 1

You can't return Nostalgia. We know what to do now.

If you like junk armor play NL.

If they did this, everyone would say nobody asked for it, even tho posters have asked for it over and over.

Old UO - junk armor
NL - junk armor

You just skill faster. Which is great.

Taking years to skill like it did in 1990s is not fun anymore.

loop · January 1

Hi MacroPlanet,

Happy New Year to you as well.

Perhaps a classic server would be an interesting experiment. There are equivalents in other games, and many players ask for it. However, I’m not sure the demand really reflects reality.

Consider that there already is a faithful T2A free shard. It’s a ghost town compared to the most popular free shard, which as we are all aware is a complete reimagining of UO. There’s also the question of the clients and the very real acknowledgment that players experience the game differently than they did 20+ years ago and in ways that the official servers aren’t currently prepared to support.

We need to ask ourselves why would people play an official classic server when so few play free ones that permit any manner of QoL clients?

I think it could work if the team were bigger and had the capacity to see it through. I’d be just as concerned about a classic server as I am about NL — yet another divergent thing for the devs to support which risks becoming as neglect as Siege.

loop · January 1

As a follow-up, I’d be more interested in a classic server less as a means of “revitalizing” the game (I don’t personally think it would achieve that) and more as a way of preserving its history in some official capacity without the expectation that it would be anything more than an emulation of the game as it was long ago.

Urge · January 1

I used to want this before but you can't get 3 people to agree which era was classic.

I've heard arguments for 1997, Ren, ML, AOS, SE.

Venom · January 1

I think the idea of a retro shard sounds decent but would be a waste of resources. As others have stated, these retro servers do not appear to be the "popular" ones that are out there. People tend to want new content and depth. As much as I have rosy memories of the "good ole days," it was severally limited in comparison to now.

The most common ask I had seen was pub 16.

KroDuK · January 2

Urge said:

I used to want this before but you can't get 3 people to agree which era was classic.

I've heard arguments for 1997, Ren, ML, AOS, SE.

I'd say the griefing era was the classic one pre-Trammel (like the most popular illegal shard is for cheaters that enjoy "PvP"/ griefing).. I hated UO; a zergy zerg game for griefer.. a Sandbox with non consumable gears+Insurance system & trammel/illshenar/tokuno had the most to offer for the players..

If NL was that with fast leveling and everything pre-SA (like necro,chiv,ninja,bushido) on top of heavy RP (like u cannot FPK; utilizing your family;Legacy system)
With a couple twist like to be able to use a tamer in PvP u'd need herding and a couple twist to the ninja like u need 120 stealth and considering all those OP items wouldn't be in the game..

We'd have a pretty strong UO version.

Personally I'm just consider when UO was the most popular.. u start from that and make things even better for a modern audience BUT u keep that old school vibe like heavy RP.. this would be a UO any nerds fan of DnD, PvP, PvE, crafting, etc would enjoy if they can play iso game.. I know a couple kid that just cannot play a game from top down.. those people would be the only people that couldn't enjoy UO even in it's best itteration.. instead they did a niche for a niche with NL for prodo.

They pretty much create the problem themselves with theme gated game to justify NL direction.. they downgraded the sandbox version imo to justify working on the theme park NL version.. the niche they built for that niche downgrade the initial niche.. just the fact the dev team ain't bigger with 2 totally different game is a huge downgrade.. without even considering the theme gated game UO has become with a tons of heretic BEst In Slot items (a litteral bribe for using tons of bots/subbing lots of automated account)

Oreogl · January 2

Please, no more new shards for a long while.

Pawain · January 2

Oreogl said:

Please, no more new shards for a long while.

If they start now, it will be a long time!

username · January 2

I think they need to fix the abomination that is the current state of of the game before they even think about doing anything else. Not like they were going to do anything else anyways...

KroDuK · January 2

They def need a new legit shard or a new ban world shard short term.. the ban world would be the best option considering NL extra work.. cuz a legit shard u'd need to work first; on the CC and to bring back the sandbox while working on the balance (wich could happen in 2030 if they start tomorow at the speed they does stuff with a tiny dev team working on 2 similar games totally different, not utilizing their experienced player base like it should be utilize)..

Wich won't even happen since NL exist.. if u gave up on prodo for NL like u gave up on CC for EC.. the ban world new shard would be the first step to do.

Give them what they want a Bots vs Bots server for frame skipper. Then we can have a grown up discussion about what the sandbox UO really need to address.. cuz NL ain't it nor the theme gated game for bots prodo actually is under BS.. like EC was before that for high sea, imo.. a new management is needed.

JohnKnighthawke · January 2

Every time they come closer to what posts like this say they want it doesn't work the way everyone thinks it will and the lesson is never learned. The past is gone. Mostly, just to be honest, that's by far for the better.

I used to have a standard post I'd put up on Stratics that explained why but, really, why bother at this point. Folks are just immune to reality, and NL was one of several results.

KroDuK · January 2

On paper NL was addressing some issue and following a sandbox trend, it was not bad.. but the execution is mental!

Was never a big fan of "season" system specially on a sandbox, but it's popular.. if the legacy system would deliver it could have been good, even for me.. but it can't even deliver on the sandbox aspect.. so what is the point.. it looks like a passion project from a casual PvE dev that love a bit too much his theme park game and did not understand the essence of UO (dragonball evolution style of movie.. you got your items ID; ain't u happy?) or why a theme park MMO top down in 2025 wasn't it immersion wise for most people.. the sandbox game we all loved.. pretty sure that dev never went at fel yew gate for example.

NL is on par with the solo RPG Ultima more than the sandbox MMO.. it wants to be tESO more than UO
Just the questing for housing.. who ever had this idea.. hvn't played much sandbox or even MMO in his life.. just the trailer video for NL release.. was.. i'll stop here cuz i still got the flame in me -.-

and btw your first sentence.. this is what i meant when i said they not utilizing their experienced players base like they should..
PS: you also wrong.. if u want proof of it look at d2 remaster or WoW classic or old school RS or any of those project.. why some fails and other succeed.
Hopefuly BnS NEO classic nailed it.. but i doubt it, for similar reason as UO.. the dev team do not have the same vision as the original one and do their own homemade recipe and brand it as classic

Say what u want about NL.. at least unlike the prodo shard.. it has a vision and ambition (love from the dev team).. like KR and EC before them -.-

Oreogl · January 3

Pawain said:

Oreogl said:

Please, no more new shards for a long while.

If they start now, it will be a long time!

. Man I don’t think the game would survive another round of that at this point.

MacroPlanet · January 3

Pawain said:

You can't return Nostalgia. We know what to do now.

If you like junk armor play NL.

If they did this, everyone would say nobody asked for it, even tho posters have asked for it over and over.

Old UO - junk armor
NL - junk armor

You just skill faster. Which is great.

Taking years to skill like it did in 1990s is not fun anymore.

Rather subjective take. I believe Blizzard said something similar to the effect of

"You think you do, but you don’t. You don’t want to do those things anymore, and they were a pain in the neck. And that’s why we changed it."

Obviously that was proven wildly incorrect as WoW Classic has become very successful because we do in fact want to return to those games. Not because of nostalgia, but because that is what the game was and what we all grew to love.

As I stated, playing around with the old demo disc and loading up the entire world, it feels good to play with that level of grind and risk.

Pawain · January 3

Make a new toon, just have 100 skills, only buy gear from an NPC. Boom you have classic UO.

Lord_Nythrax · January 3

It took them like five years to pull off NL, during which time everything else stagnated and they completely lost control of client development for their own game. Even if they saw this thread and decided to get to work on a proper classic shard right this minute it wouldn't come out until 2030+ by which point the standard production game would have gone more than a decade without any real developer attention.

MacroPlanet · January 3

Pawain said:

Make a new toon, just have 100 skills, only buy gear from an NPC. Boom you have classic UO.

I take it you didn't play the original UO.

Pawain · January 3

MacroPlanet said:

Pawain said:

Make a new toon, just have 100 skills, only buy gear from an NPC. Boom you have classic UO.

I take it you didn't play the original UO.

I played when you could not lock any skills and skills only went to 100. You could gain skills when someone near you did some skills. Players would harass GM skill people by making campfires and the GM person would lose points and gain camping.

I had a Silver weapon but it remained in the bank because there was no insurance. So, ya I only used things I could buy from an NPC. Armor had ratings not resist numbers.

NL is very classic armor and weapons.

I started a little late because I read the guide book before I made an account. I was also playing Diablo at the time. I never played any of the Ultima Games, I preferred games made by Sierra. Or any games compatible with my Roland MT 32.

Image: https://forum.uo.com/uploads/editor/75/q66bokzutry8.png

Victim_Of_Siege · January 3

Pawain said:

MacroPlanet said:

Pawain said:

Make a new toon, just have 100 skills, only buy gear from an NPC. Boom you have classic UO.

I take it you didn't play the original UO.

I played when you could not lock any skills and skills only went to 100. You could gain skills when someone near you did some skills. Players would harass GM skill people by making campfires and the GM person would lose points and gain camping.

I had a Silver weapon but it remained in the bank because there was no insurance. So, ya I only used things I could buy from an NPC. Armor had ratings not resist numbers.

NL is very classic armor and weapons.

I started a little late because I read the guide book before I made an account.

Slacker . . .

Drago · January 4

Pawain said:

You can't return Nostalgia. We know what to do now.

If you like junk armor play NL.

If they did this, everyone would say nobody asked for it, even tho posters have asked for it over and over.

Old UO - junk armor
NL - junk armor

You just skill faster. Which is great.

Taking years to skill like it did in 1990s is not fun anymore.

Facts. You'll never get that feeling you did when 1st playing UO.... because you've already experienced it (along with several 100 games since then probably). We didnt know any better in 98 what 'grind' really entailed, it was new, therefore was exciting....that feeling rarely comes around as you get older...atleast in video games...bc its all same crap.

Pawain · January 4

Drago said:

Pawain said:

You can't return Nostalgia. We know what to do now.

If you like junk armor play NL.

If they did this, everyone would say nobody asked for it, even tho posters have asked for it over and over.

Old UO - junk armor
NL - junk armor

You just skill faster. Which is great.

Taking years to skill like it did in 1990s is not fun anymore.

Facts. You'll never get that feeling you did when 1st playing UO.... because you've already experienced it (along with several 100 games since then probably). We didnt know any better in 98 what 'grind' really entailed, it was new, therefore was exciting....that feeling rarely comes around as you get older...atleast in video games...bc its all same crap.

Exactly. I don't get that feeling from any new game I play. That does not mean I don't like that game. We know how to play games. Back then we did not have a game experience like UO.
I like top down games, not first person.
(Jagged Alliance is pretty cool)

There was no game where you could leave town and just keep going. Everything was new, especially if you had not played the Ultima games.

The first day of NL was an unknown. But we all knew what to do, the only thing we needed to figure out was how to do it. Any UO they make will be the same. We know what to do.

I still can play UO and do things that makes my adrenalin flow.

KroDuK · January 4

Lord_Nythrax said:

... without any real developer attention.

What would you call proper dev attention?
Just curious.

MacroPlanet said:
I take it you didn't play the original UO.

What would you call the original UO?
Cuz saying like that.. I picture the "Beta" Test CD-rom

To me the "classic" should be a better version of the most popular version.. what any good classic remake were.

Owning an old account does not make u an OG.. no way on earth an OG would believe more Archery equal more DMG on the paperdoll.. It's like saying u got a master degree in math and cannot compute a basic formula.
We might have a case of Pay2Fast.. just saying.

So far @JohnKnighthawke had the best take on the problems, imo.. bad opinion, but good take.

MacroPlanet · January 9

Pawain said:

MacroPlanet said:

Pawain said:

Make a new toon, just have 100 skills, only buy gear from an NPC. Boom you have classic UO.

I take it you didn't play the original UO.

I played when you could not lock any skills and skills only went to 100. You could gain skills when someone near you did some skills. Players would harass GM skill people by making campfires and the GM person would lose points and gain camping.

I had a Silver weapon but it remained in the bank because there was no insurance. So, ya I only used things I could buy from an NPC. Armor had ratings not resist numbers.

NL is very classic armor and weapons.

I started a little late because I read the guide book before I made an account. I was also playing Diablo at the time. I never played any of the Ultima Games, I preferred games made by Sierra. Or any games compatible with my Roland MT 32.

Fair enough, point made and clearly you've been here since the beginning. I should not have claimed otherwise.

I do agree that NL is a nice step into that direction, but to me the whole idea of a classic version of a MMORPG or Live Service would be to re-capture everything in the sake of preservation.

I'd rather not play third party servers to get this experience and would much rather support the official game because without it, we'd wouldn't have nearly three decades of UO.

It's understandable that some people don't want it, but I would argue that most of the overall UO community would absolutely want it. But hey, I've been wrong before. *shrugs*

Pawain · January 9

@MacroPlanet a classic server has been asked for so often that they spent 5 years making NL in attempt to bring back that feeling. When it was being made, every poster lost their memory and said, no one asked for that.

Anything the devs do, a vocal group will say, no one asked for that.

Personally, I like making suits with stats, so I like this period of UO. But I'll go back to NL when the event ends in February. It think they are up to max stats now.

MacroPlanet · January 10

Pawain said:

@ MacroPlanet a classic server has been asked for so often that they spent 5 years making NL in attempt to bring back that feeling. When it was being made, every poster lost their memory and said, no one asked for that.

Anything the devs do, a vocal group will say, no one asked for that.

Personally, I like making suits with stats, so I like this period of UO. But I'll go back to NL when the event ends in February. It think they are up to max stats now.

Here's the thing though, yes I agree that most current and even people that played Broadswords UO in the last decade will enjoy the modern take of UO after AOS.

However, there is an entire community of people about the same size or larger than the current official player base that crave a classic take on UO. I just think it would be smart of Broadsword to try and bring these players back. NL didn't work for them. A classic take of UO, maybe even similar to how EverQuest TL servers would do wonders for adding in old new players.

MacroPlanet · February 5

Necro-ing this post again since the announcement of a new UO producer. @Kyronix first off congratulations on your new position within UO. Excited to see what you can do for this game with your dedication and support.

Just a heads up that the UO community is much larger than these official forums. There are at least a few thousand people that are hungry for a real classic UO experience. Something akin to what EQ and WoW are doing. Some of these people are even rather talented in re-creating an experience that is true to the original UO experience. I just wanted to bring this up because I believe it could be beneficial in bringing more people back to UO with more subscriptions. Please don’t overlook this community as their voices reflect a strong desire for an official classic experience.

Thanks and looking forward to a bright future for UO!

keven2002 · February 5

Pawain said:

@ MacroPlanet a classic server has been asked for so often that they spent 5 years making NL in attempt to bring back that feeling. When it was being made, every poster lost their memory and said, no one asked for that.

Some people (not all) asked for a classic server and NL was indeed their response to that, BUT it's not truly a "classic" server in the sense that it was what UO was 25 years ago. Even if they did give us an exact replica of a shard 25 years ago, I'm sure many people would have buyers remorse.

The thing about a "classic" server is that it will never be what people remember it because of all the "other" factors that attributed to their time playing 25 years ago. We are also 25 years more advanced WITH UO so many people (including myself) don't want to spend X amount of time hitting the bone knight wall in Deceit to gain skill or walking around for a year taming animals. The last couple toons I built were all trained within a week with the use of mythic tokens/pinks/blue scrolls/mastery training because I don't feel like GMing magery for a 20th time. On top of that, the advancement is scripts/clients in undeniable and with a profit to be made some people will exploit those for personal gain.

In short, a "classic client" simply won't be UO 20+ years ago no matter how close the game mechanics are because majority of what "classic UO" is buried in a player's mind and we can't recreate those interactions/friends/memories by building a comparable server.

MacroPlanet · February 5

keven2002 said:

Pawain said:

@ MacroPlanet a classic server has been asked for so often that they spent 5 years making NL in attempt to bring back that feeling. When it was being made, every poster lost their memory and said, no one asked for that.

Some people (not all) asked for a classic server and NL was indeed their response to that, BUT it's not truly a "classic" server in the sense that it was what UO was 25 years ago. Even if they did give us an exact replica of a shard 25 years ago, I'm sure many people would have buyers remorse.

The thing about a "classic" server is that it will never be what people remember it because of all the "other" factors that attributed to their time playing 25 years ago. We are also 25 years more advanced WITH UO so many people (including myself) don't want to spend X amount of time hitting the bone knight wall in Deceit to gain skill or walking around for a year taming animals. The last couple toons I built were all trained within a week with the use of mythic tokens/pinks/blue scrolls/mastery training because I don't feel like GMing magery for a 20th time. On top of that, the advancement is scripts/clients in undeniable and with a profit to be made some people will exploit those for personal gain.

In short, a "classic client" simply won't be UO 20+ years ago no matter how close the game mechanics are because majority of what "classic UO" is buried in a player's mind and we can't recreate those interactions/friends/memories by building a comparable server.

The idea that a classic UO shard wouldn’t work because it “won’t be what people remember” is a bit of a defeatist mindset. Of course, no game or re-creation can fully recreate the exact circumstances of 25 years ago. People change, the internet has changed, and gaming culture has edefinitely changed. But that doesn’t mean a proper classic UO shard wouldn’t be highly successful.

First off, WoW Classic and EverQuest’s progression servers show that there is a real demand for faithful classic MMO experiences. If UO followed suit, a properly executed official classic shard could bring back thousands of players. Yes, it would take some love and care from Broadsword; but it's not impossible.

As for the idea that people would have “buyer’s remorse”, that’s an assumption that ignores the thousands of players who actively seek out classic UO experiences on free shards. There’s clearly an audience for it, why not offer them an official option?

The concern about modern player expectations and convenience is valid to a degree, but it doesn’t mean a classic shard couldn’t strike a balance. Not everyone is against the grind—many actually enjoy it, hell I do which is why I'm always chasing it. It's the experience inside of that grind that feels genuine and makes it worth the time. Look at Pantheon! The feeling of earning every point of skill gain and the social aspect of training in classic UO is part of what made the game feel meaningful. If a modern player doesn’t want to grind out skills, they can simply play on another live server. A classic shard wouldn’t replace modern UO—it would exist alongside it.

And finally, the idea that “we can’t recreate those interactions, friends, or memories” misses the point entirely. No one is expecting a classic UO shard to magically restore 1998. But what it can do is bring back the social dynamics, risk vs. reward, player-driven economy, and open-world interactions that made UO special in the first place, on an official level. The systems that created those experiences still work today if given the right environment.

Dismissing a classic UO shard just because “things won’t be exactly the same” is like saying we shouldn’t have WoW Classic because 2004 is over. Yet, WoW Classic has been a massive success, precisely because it gave players an authentic way to relive the original game. And eventually add some minors twists to the systems. Or Everquest's ToL servers that release each and every year. Plus other MMO's and live service games that follow suit. There’s no reason UO couldn’t do the same.

Violet · February 6

I'm sure your heart is in the right place, because you do seem to be a person who truly loves Ultima Online but you can never truly recapture that feeling of when we first played UO.

Some points I want to bring up:

Regarding WoW and WoW Classic- WoW Classic was the re-release of WoW from the beginning but sadly things weren't the same. It wasn't an authentic old school WoW play experience because people knew what to do, where to find things and addons are on a different scale now then what they were back when WoW was released. There was no discovery.

Molten Core was available when WoW was released. It took from November 2004 until April 2005 for the first Ragnaros kill. I was in one of those very first guilds to kill Ragnaros, I remember all the stuff we had to learn, find and use to kill it. On WoW Classic the same feat took 5 days. Consumption of content was at an accelerated rate just like it would be on a classic UO shard.

The actual WoW Classic server (without the expansions) is pretty empty now. The same would be true with a Classic UO experience. Sure the first days would be busy until everyone is max skill through the use of unauthorized programs/macros and then it would be a "now what?". Also people would remember all the things they disliked about that era, some of which Pawain touched on. The unauthorized servers that attempt to recreate those early eras don't tend to last very long.

Something else, I don't believe Broadsword has any of that old server code backed up anywhere. They would have to strip down the current code and find a way to revert it. They tried to strip down some systems for New Legacy and that took years and a decent amount of bugs popped up (as seen in both Alpha and Beta). Even though New Legacy had some new mechanics and systems to learn, players still blew through a lot of the new content. A classic server is just not feasible from a business standpoint. Remember, EA and Broadsword are businesses, not some guys running emulators.

I think a better discussion to be had is what could present day UO incorporate to make it more appealing to new and returning players. What do you see in other games that would make sense for Broadsword to perhaps incorporate into UO.

CovenantX · February 6

Pawain said:

@ MacroPlanet a classic server has been asked for so often that they spent 5 years making NL in attempt to bring back that feeling. When it was being made, every poster lost their memory and said, no one asked for that.

Anything the devs do, a vocal group will say, no one asked for that.

It was asked for, but it's not really close to the classic systems.

It seems like what they did with NL is slap new tool-tips on items, and removed things like LRC, LMC, but continued to use the AoS calculations for damage & damage resistances instead of the true classic formulas. t

most of the people that couldn't get enough UO back in those days who remembers true classic UO will almost immediately know something's off. -but it's not just the simplification of item properties that made classic UO good. it was a combination of a lot of things, the biggest one being the # of active players during that time... where almost every existing shard looked like it was several times more populated than Atlantic is now.

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Ultima Online in 2025 and beyond -- Classic UO!

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