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Whats the deal with wrestling and magery?

DeathBringerDeathBringer Posts: 132
in General Discussions
I read that you have to have wrestling to hold spell books and get their bonuses?

Is that true or what?

Comments

  • MargeMarge Posts: 722
    Not true - never even heard of that.
  • King_GregKing_Greg Posts: 250
    Probably talking about the Block Chance while having a book equipped
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    DeathBringer said:
    I read that you have to have wrestling to hold spell books and get their bonuses?

    Is that true or what?
    If you READ it then there must be a link so p[lease post the link.
  • NorryNorry Posts: 536
    The point is to have defense if someone or something attacks you. Like having parry to block with a shield.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,428
    edited August 2021
    Norry said:
    The point is to have defense if someone or something attacks you. Like having parry to block with a shield.
    No  The point is the OP thinks that even standing in your house that you have to have Wrest with Magery to even equip and use a spell book.  Char with NO spell casting abilities or any Wrestling can still equip a spell book.
  • HippoHippo Posts: 316
    I added GM wrestle to my SW/Mystic/Mage to provide a little bit of defense so I could take advantage of my equipped 50SDI spellbook and SDI25 Flame Slayer during this event. Afterwards, will soulstone and go back to Hide/Stealth.
  • DeathBringerDeathBringer Posts: 132
    Lord_Frodo said:
    Norry said:
    The point is to have defense if someone or something attacks you. Like having parry to block with a shield.
    No  The point is the OP thinks that even standing in your house that you have to have Wrest with Magery to even equip and use a spell book.  Char with NO spell casting abilities or any Wrestling can still equip a spell book.
    Not the case.

    I am a long time player returning after 8 years. Trying to figure out the current rule set.


  • DeathBringerDeathBringer Posts: 132
    Bilbo said:
    I read that you have to have wrestling to hold spell books and get their bonuses?

    Is that true or what?
    If you READ it then there must be a link so p[lease post the link.
    The Wrestling skill allows you to equip spellbooks with useful properties or slayer spellbooks to target specific monster types. (slayer bonus is only applied to direct damage spells).

    https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/magery/
  • DeathBringerDeathBringer Posts: 132
    Hippo said:
    I added GM wrestle to my SW/Mystic/Mage to provide a little bit of defense so I could take advantage of my equipped 50SDI spellbook and SDI25 Flame Slayer during this event. Afterwards, will soulstone and go back to Hide/Stealth.
    Couple of questions:

    1. I am under the impression that slayer spellbook and talismans do not stack for mages. Correct?
    2. How did adding GM wrestling help you in your case?

  • NorryNorry Posts: 536
    edited August 2021
      While it used to be the case that a spellbook in hand did not count for wrestling, it now does. So a mage can equip a spellbook with item properties and still use their wrestling skill.


    The defense. If you have 120 wrestle, and your target has 120 wrestle, he has a 50% chance of hitting you. It provides no other bonuses except to use speacials.

    If you have eval int and anat, id does the same.

    (Edited do to incorrect info)
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,450
    Think it goes back to UO’s early days.  With wrestling a mage has a chance to disarm or stun an attacker, for example another player trying to kill you.  May still be useful that way.  I do mostly pvm and to be honest on my mage that has it he has never used either special move since he grandmastered it.  It might provide some passive benefit but if your planning on doing mostly pvm you might consider learning another skill like spell weaving or something else.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,450
    Talisman slayers only work with weapons.  If your a mage get a talisman that increases spell damage.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,450
    DeathBringer checked your link.  I have two mages one with wrestling and one without.  Both use spellbooks the same way.  Don’t think the wrestling skill makes any difference.  Not sure what writer is trying to say in that melee section.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Bilbo said:
    I read that you have to have wrestling to hold spell books and get their bonuses?

    Is that true or what?
    If you READ it then there must be a link so p[lease post the link.
    The Wrestling skill allows you to equip spellbooks with useful properties or slayer spellbooks to target specific monster types. (slayer bonus is only applied to direct damage spells).

    https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/magery/

    Next time you need to quote the entire message.

    Magery and Melee

    Ideally the mage should avoid his/her opponents getting close enough to melee. Anatomy, when added to evaluate intelligence, gives a mage defensive wrestling.

    (Anatomy + Evaluate Intelligence + 20) / 2 = defensive wrestling (capped at 120.0)

    However it does not give any offensive capability, for that you will need Wrestling skill. The Wrestling skill allows you to equip spellbooks with useful properties or slayer spellbooks to target specific monster types. (slayer bonus is only applied to direct damage spells).

  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,450
    Never realized that UO provides two different kinds of wrestling offensive and defensive.  Am familiar with wrestling skill and it’s special moves.  So is defensive wrestling, based on anatomy, the same just without the special moves or is it something different?  Can see the formula above but don’t know what to compare the result too.  Thanks.
  • NorryNorry Posts: 536
    It doesnt make it easier for you to punch someone and do damage, and no special moves.

    It only gives you the defense(chance to not be hit.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,450
    Thanks.  I had always read about adding anatomy to get wrestling rather than adding the actual skill, and wondered how anatomy based wrestling differed from the actual skill or if they were the same.  Thanks for answering that.
  • NorryNorry Posts: 536
    Not the same. Anatomy 100 and 120 eval is the same as wrestlibg 120 for defense. So it basically saves 20 points.
  • HippoHippo Posts: 316
    Generally I carry a -0 Mage Weapon Balakai staff  which gives me the equivalent of 120 weapon skill (I have 120 Magery) when it comes to Defense. I thought GM wrestling would allow me to use the mods on my slayer and high SDI spellbooks while still providing some Defense bonus. I play only PVM. Should I soulstone the wrestle skill and go back to using the "equip last weapon" macro and toggle between slayer book and Balakai staff?
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,450
    I don’t know if wrestling provides some sort of passive benefit like parry does.  In pvm I don’t notice any difference between the way my mage without wrestling and with wrestling play.  I get the benefits of Spellbook mods with both characters. Most monsters don’t hold weapons so the special disarm move does not work on them.  I mostly just avoid melee by either going invis. or running away.
    The mage weapon is I think the best way to go.  If you are holding a mage weapon when you lose connection your character has a good chance of surviving until you time out or regain connection if you are not in too much danger when that happens.
    if you replace wrestling with anatomy you will still have defensive wrestling and you will get more points per hit from your mage weapon.  Neither of my mages have anatomy by the way.  There are other things you can add that I think will provide better benefits.
    Don’t think the slayer mod on a mage weapon affects your direct damage spells at all but you do get the benefits from the other mods.  If I am traveling I usually hold a mage weapon that drops when I cast a spell and use the mage weapon to deal with the pests I meet along the way.

    sorry about the italic but there does not appear to be any way to turn it off.


  • TimTim Posts: 826
    Hummm I always thought wrestling on a mage was to reduce chance of spell disruption.
    You learn something every day.
  • NorryNorry Posts: 536
    @Timthats because you defend and didnt get hit.
    I believe the focus mod on items helps as well.
  • MerlinMerlin Posts: 235
    Apologies for resurrecting an old thread...  but was hoping to get some clarity on defensive wrestling.

    Are you able to equip both a spellbook and a shield and still get the benefit of defensive wrestling if you have Evaluate Intelligence and Anatomy?    Or do you have to have one free hand in order for defensive wrestling to work?  (Or two free hands???)
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,082
    Maybe ask on discord I bet Marvin knows 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,685
    Merlin said:
    Apologies for resurrecting an old thread...  but was hoping to get some clarity on defensive wrestling.

    Are you able to equip both a spellbook and a shield and still get the benefit of defensive wrestling if you have Evaluate Intelligence and Anatomy?    Or do you have to have one free hand in order for defensive wrestling to work?  (Or two free hands???)
    I'm pretty certain you get the benefit of defensive wrestling in both scenarios, with book and shield equipped.
  • NorryNorry Posts: 536
    Try it on test with 2 accounts. Def wrestilng 120 eval and 100 anat and the other account with like 50 wrestle. See how often you get hit.
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 512
    In combat your base chance of getting hit by a melee or archery attack depends on your skill with your equipped weapon. If you don't have a weapon equipped, it depends on your wrestling. A spellbook isn't a weapon, so the game still checks wrestling when deciding whether an attack hits you or not. That's it.
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 625
    edited September 24
    You can tell who uses a third party client/script in PvP, by bringing an unknown Mage char with Wrestling, and slapping the person with Paralyzing Punch. The scripter will instantly trap box the Para Punch even with zero telegraph, while legit players are like "Wtf just happened? Did he really Para Punch me? I thought Wrest Mages were extinct!" and take a second or two to realize what just happened and react. Since Wrest Mages are so rare, virtually noone expects getting hit with a Para Punch. It's sad how many people instantly trap box it nowadays.
  • MerlinMerlin Posts: 235
    edited September 25
    I did ask around in a couple Discord groups and was told 1) the defensive wrestling does work with both spellbook and shield;  2) defensive wrestling from ant + eval doesn't defend quite as well as if you had actual wrestling skill (tests inconclusive).  I also found a 15 year old Stratics thread that also questioned the effectiveness of defensive wrestling from anatomy, and questions if the formula put forth in the link from this thread is infact accurate.

    For right now, I have the information I need to move forward with the build I want to do.  Will test more and report back.


  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,291
    Merlin said:
     2) defensive wrestling from ant + eval doesn't defend quite as well as if you had actual wrestling skill (tests inconclusive). 

    These kind of tests will always be inconclusive when RNG is involved.

    When i pvped heavily i used to test everything. I found one of my characters would be hit more than another with the exact same skills/stats/suit. It was if that specific character was bugged to be hit more often. 

    I also found anat/eval/parry to be far superior than wrestle/parry for blocking. 

    I would recommend trying both templates with the same character to get an honest feel for what you think is best. 


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