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Was the figure of the Helper eliminated or does it still exist in some shards?

mismis Posts: 202
edited September 13 in General Discussions
I remember around 1999-2000 beginnings, that in the Origin shard there were some players who were not GMs, but who called themselves Helpers (they wore a GM style tunic but in a different color), these members of the Staff, who were not ordinary users because they had privileges, helped players who were starting to play, explaining its operation, etc...

When I started years later in the Europe shard, I didn't see that figure (Helper), what happened to that semiGM status?

Personally I would love to see that status again, although sometimes I often drop by New Haven to help players with young status, I think that figure should exist again.

I never knew if those semiGM (without privileges to kill, ban, etc...) were voluntary users that were accepted by the company to help in a non lucrative way, as it happens in IRC servers.

Do you think this status (Helper) should exist again?

Comments

  • RonFellowsRonFellows Posts: 146
    https://www.uoguide.com/Counselor
  • RonFellowsRonFellows Posts: 146
    Origin got sued and they cancelled the program.
  • mismis Posts: 202
    edited September 14
    Origin got sued and they cancelled the program.
    @RonFellows I read the whole thing and you have left me amazed.

    I did not know the internal hierarchical process, that some of them were paid money by the company and many of the details mentioned there.

    I am very surprised by several aspects, the first one is that some people got paid money, and the second one, that some made a demand as a minimum wage demand. Mainly for one reason, in the IRC servers, in which I can share the experience because many years ago I have been in some IRC servers as IRC Operator (IRCop) at international level and in others, as helper (Operator of the network services) attending in #opers_help , I remember that in a server that was very important in Spain run by ISPs, that the Operators of the network services we were obliged to do a minimum of hours per week or a month (I don't remember exactly because it was many years ago) if we wanted to maintain our status, similar to those who made the Counselor in Ultima Online and no one charged anything or anyone demanded or sued for not receiving money over the years as minimum wage.

    It is true that when I have read that some got to receive money when you were at the top, others could try with lawyers to claim that, but it was certainly as a bonus, not a salary as I have understood according to the translation.

    I think that if they do not get to give economic gratification, that situation of the class action would not have been able to go ahead, because as it indicates, they were volunteers, it is as if you volunteer at an event and then demand money, you are a volunteer and must meet a schedule, in return you receive some benefit or advantage as a bonus.

    I think that the figure of Counselor should be redesigned, starting by changing its name to 'Helper', removing certain flaws that existed as a hierarchical system or the mistake of giving an economic bonus, thus avoiding envy, discrimination and competitiveness among peers.

    This figure of the 'Helper' could greatly empower the new generations to discover a game as wonderful as Ultima Online, in an era where the new generations want everything 'in the moment' and at full speed, would give the opportunity to learn this type of alternative daily progress and adventures that can not be experienced in other games.

    I would like to know your opinion, what do you think of this redesigned figure that I mention called 'Helper' with the capabilities of an old Counselor but eliminating those that may involve any abuse of power, without economic gratification, and eliminating the mistakes that could be made, thus being helpers that make the arrival of new players easier and better and in return receive some object of gratification with texts of gratitude and some benefit that does not involve a disadvantage for any player.

    Just as GMs will have a menu of requests for assistance from a GM, make a replica with a different command or menu only for Helpers, a list of requests for help, where only requests for help about the game without access to GM requests.

    What do you think about this?
  • GarretGarret Posts: 188
    edited September 14
    mis said:
    Origin got sued and they cancelled the program.
    @ RonFellows I read the whole thing and you have left me amazed.

    I did not know the internal hierarchical process, that some of them were paid money by the company and many of the details mentioned there.

    I am very surprised by several aspects, the first one is that some people got paid money, and the second one, that some made a demand as a minimum wage demand. Mainly for one reason, in the IRC servers, in which I can share the experience because many years ago I have been in some IRC servers as IRC Operator (IRCop) at international level and in others, as helper (Operator of the network services) attending in #opers_help , I remember that in a server that was very important in Spain run by ISPs, that the Operators of the network services we were obliged to do a minimum of hours per week or a month (I don't remember exactly because it was many years ago) if we wanted to maintain our status, similar to those who made the Counselor in Ultima Online and no one charged anything or anyone demanded or sued for not receiving money over the years as minimum wage.

    It is true that when I have read that some got to receive money when you were at the top, others could try with lawyers to claim that, but it was certainly as a bonus, not a salary as I have understood according to the translation.

    I think that if they do not get to give economic gratification, that situation of the class action would not have been able to go ahead, because as it indicates, they were volunteers, it is as if you volunteer at an event and then demand money, you are a volunteer and must meet a schedule, in return you receive some benefit or advantage as a bonus.

    I think that the figure of Counselor should be redesigned, starting by changing its name to 'Helper', removing certain flaws that existed as a hierarchical system or the mistake of giving an economic bonus, thus avoiding envy, discrimination and competitiveness among peers.

    This figure of the 'Helper' could greatly empower the new generations to discover a game as wonderful as Ultima Online, in an era where the new generations want everything 'in the moment' and at full speed, would give the opportunity to learn this type of alternative daily progress and adventures that can not be experienced in other games.

    I would like to know your opinion, what do you think of this redesigned figure that I mention called 'Helper' with the capabilities of an old Counselor but eliminating those that may involve any abuse of power, without economic gratification, and eliminating the mistakes that could be made, thus being helpers that make the arrival of new players easier and better and in return receive some object of gratification with texts of gratitude and some benefit that does not involve a disadvantage for any player.

    Just as GMs will have a menu of requests for assistance from a GM, make a replica with a different command or menu only for Helpers, a list of requests for help, where only requests for help about the game without access to GM requests.

    What do you think about this?

    You have a bunch of fan sites, UO guide and most importantly discords where ppls will help you with the gameplay and give advice on leveling up and playing, everything else makes no sense, questions about game mechanics in terms of difficulties in their implementation are simply a given of a 25-year-old game. It is currently very difficult to get improvements in old mechanics, so the presence of such “characters” is pointless.
  • mismis Posts: 202
    edited September 14
    Garret said:

    You have a bunch of fan sites, UO guide and most importantly discords where ppls will help you with the gameplay and give advice on leveling up and playing, everything else makes no sense, questions about game mechanics in terms of difficulties in their implementation are simply a given of a 25-year-old game. It is currently very difficult to get improvements in old mechanics, so the presence of such “characters” is pointless.

    Times have changed, as you say, nowadays, unlike the beginnings of UO, there are many pages and platforms like discord to access information and online help.

    In principle, the original idea of this open question about the return of this modified 'Counselor' profile, came from the point of view that some users do not want to use external platforms (discord, IRC, webs, etc ...) to solve their doubts, but it is also true that there is internal chat in Ultima Online where in some ways this is also solved.

    The only thing would be some function that would require physical presence or something similar in the game, being as an alternative help.

    @Garret ; I appreciate your opinion, if someone wants to contribute something else, great, I like to know different opinions, to see if this could be presented as a project or is completely useless at present.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,082
    Due to the legal issues this will never return 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • mismis Posts: 202
    edited September 14
    McDougle said:
    Due to the legal issues this will never return 
    You left me surprised by your blunt answer :S

    I am surprised that the company cannot accept volunteers for an assistant project, but if you know the case and say that legally it will never come back, it will be because you will have read, you will know something about the sentence or something.

  • GarretGarret Posts: 188
    mis said:
    McDougle said:
    Due to the legal issues this will never return 
    You left me surprised by your blunt answer :S

    I am surprised that the company cannot accept volunteers for an assistant project, but if you know the case and say that legally it will never come back, it will be because you will have read, you will know something about the sentence or something.

    Best they can do is open official discord chanel and assign few community volunteers or open some channels for newb help but as i understand uo forum will be only one platform.
  • AmberWitchAmberWitch Posts: 689
    edited September 14
    Unfortunately the days of volunteering actually meaning to volunteer are sadly behind us. But very shard has a chat channel called 'Help". Some shards are blessed and have someone that actively monitors that channel.

    If you're interested you can take it upon yourself to be an unsanctioned volunteer, one can just do it. You can always drop some books in New Haven advising the help channel when you're available to do it. While you won't have the scant abilities the Counselors had you'll probably be able to take care of most the issues/questions you'll be asked about. 


  • mismis Posts: 202
    Unfortunately the days of volunteering actually meaning to volunteer are sadly behind us. But very shard has a chat channel called 'Help". Some shards are blessed and have someone that actively monitors that channel.

    If you're interested you can take it upon yourself to be an unsanctioned volunteer, one can just do it. You can always drop some books in New Haven advising the help channel when you're available to do it. While you won't have the scant abilities the Counselors had you'll probably be able to take care of most the issues/questions you'll be asked about. 



    @AmberWitch ; thanks for your idea, what I usually do sometimes is to visit new haven, internal UO chat or discord to bring some help.

    :)
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    Unfortunately people would abuse a system that gave anything more than a normal player has.

    So.  Gotta help people in game or on forums or whatever this discord thing is.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • DolGorathDolGorath Posts: 40
    edited September 16
    McDougle said:
    Due to the legal issues this will never return 

    That is not true. In 2016-2017 or so, they had the Advisor Program which was a Counselor replacement.

    The main difference was that Couselors were required to work for set hours to ensure there was staffing. This is where the legal issue was.

    The Advisors were not required to work set hours and could log in when ever they wanted.

    The reason Advisors ended was low player engagement. There were a few reasons but that is the main one.
    It was possible to go HOURS without a single player page.

    So The Advisors eventually fizzled out. Which was very sad. I wish players had utilized them more.


  • DolGorathDolGorath Posts: 40
    edited September 16
    Garret said:
    mis said:
    McDougle said:
    Due to the legal issues this will never return 
    You left me surprised by your blunt answer :S

    I am surprised that the company cannot accept volunteers for an assistant project, but if you know the case and say that legally it will never come back, it will be because you will have read, you will know something about the sentence or something.

    Best they can do is open official discord chanel and assign few community volunteers or open some channels for newb help but as i understand uo forum will be only one platform.

    What I think they should do is bring back an altered version of Companions similar to how the New Player Help System works in World of Warcraft,

    There is an in-game board you can apply to if you meet certain skill requirements and achievements. This gives you a special chat icon, and overhead icon that sets you aside as a guide and you can join a special chat channel for helping new players.


    I think having in-game help is good and both WoW and Final Fantasy XIV have a system like that in place. UO should follow suit.

    Discord and the like are nice, but in-game help is always that extra special touch.

  • mismis Posts: 202
    DolGorath said:

    That is not true. In 2016-2017 or so, they had the Advisor Program which was a Counselor replacement.

    The main difference was that Couselors were required to work for set hours to ensure there was staffing. This is where the legal issue was.

    The Advisors were not required to work set hours and could log in when ever they wanted.

    The reason Advisors ended was low player engagement. There were a few reasons but that is the main one.
    It was possible to go HOURS without a single player page.

    So The Advisors eventually fizzled out. Which was very sad. I wish players had utilized them more.



    I liked your contribution, I didn't know what you shared.  

    I also think that a project of a modified version of the Helpers should be proposed for new players, where I insist, generations who did not know Ultima Online, explaining the mechanics and see the benefits of this game that other games can not offer.  

    It is necessary to have a long term vision.
  • GarretGarret Posts: 188
    edited September 16
    DolGorath said:
    Garret said:
    mis said:
    McDougle said:
    Due to the legal issues this will never return 
    You left me surprised by your blunt answer :S

    I am surprised that the company cannot accept volunteers for an assistant project, but if you know the case and say that legally it will never come back, it will be because you will have read, you will know something about the sentence or something.

    Best they can do is open official discord chanel and assign few community volunteers or open some channels for newb help but as i understand uo forum will be only one platform.

    What I think they should do is bring back an altered version of Companions similar to how the New Player Help System works in World of Warcraft,

    There is an in-game board you can apply to if you meet certain skill requirements and achievements. This gives you a special chat icon, and overhead icon that sets you aside as a guide and you can join a special chat channel for helping new players.


    I think having in-game help is good and both WoW and Final Fantasy XIV have a system like that in place. UO should follow suit.

    Discord and the like are nice, but in-game help is always that extra special touch.

      The problem is in game chat is poor designed u can't save or copy information. It will create situation when same ppls will ask same question every minute bcz they forgot or was distracted and didn't read, with discord u always can save conversation/screens/sites/guides and always have option te reread or rewatch it.
      Like i said best they can do is create official discord channel and put discord link in every aspect of the game launcher/loading/chat joining menu/help menu so every one who need help will always have option to be heard or see alredy done guides and no need to answer same question every second for those ppls, even with discord this always happen...for in game chat that will be mess...
      Im mentoring newbs in my community, in game chat and in game help is poor designed, discord and other sites when u have screens or videos is much more helpful.
  • DolGorathDolGorath Posts: 40
    edited September 16
    Garret said:
    DolGorath said:
    Garret said:
    mis said:
    McDougle said:
    Due to the legal issues this will never return 
    You left me surprised by your blunt answer :S

    I am surprised that the company cannot accept volunteers for an assistant project, but if you know the case and say that legally it will never come back, it will be because you will have read, you will know something about the sentence or something.

    Best they can do is open official discord chanel and assign few community volunteers or open some channels for newb help but as i understand uo forum will be only one platform.

    What I think they should do is bring back an altered version of Companions similar to how the New Player Help System works in World of Warcraft,

    There is an in-game board you can apply to if you meet certain skill requirements and achievements. This gives you a special chat icon, and overhead icon that sets you aside as a guide and you can join a special chat channel for helping new players.


    I think having in-game help is good and both WoW and Final Fantasy XIV have a system like that in place. UO should follow suit.

    Discord and the like are nice, but in-game help is always that extra special touch.

      The problem is in game chat is poor designed u can't save or copy information. It will create situation when same ppls will ask same question every minute bcz they forgot or was distracted and didn't read, with discord u always can save conversation/screens/sites/guides and always have option te reread or rewatch it.
      Like i said best they can do is create official discord channel and put discord link in every aspect of the game launcher/loading/chat joining menu/help menu so every one who need help will always have option to be heard or see alredy done guides and no need to answer same question every second for those ppls, even with discord this always happen...for in game chat that will be mess...
      Im mentoring newbs in my community, in game chat and in game help is poor designed, discord and other sites when u have screens or videos is much more helpful.

    I do agree that Broadsword should make an official UO Discord, it is free and a good thing to have. Is there even an unofficial Discord for the Official Shards currently?

    That said, I still think having in-game help is still a nice thing to have. Why limit yourself to just Discord? The more tools and options for the players the better. As I mentioned, both WoW and FFXIV both have systems in place where players can opt-in to be guides for new players.
    Wow and FFXIV are MUCH bigger games with all sorts of Discords and a very active forum, and yet the dev teams in those games saw it fit to put in in-game mentor systems because it is a good thing.
    It's free, it's a positive for the game and all it does is require some development effort to put the system in place. Vets can take time to help guide and teach players, newbies can find vets in game to help if they need it through the in-game interface without needing to go outside the game.

    This would basically be bringing back Companions, minus the special powers Companions had.
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