PVP in New Legacy
PVP in New Legacy
New Legacy (NL) is poised to be a huge winner for UO. With a population seeming only second to Atlantic on a beta, the future is bright for NL. This server is a fantastic experience for the PVE player. However, the PVP player currently doesn’t know what NL has to offer them, and, honestly, it doesn’t have much if anything to offer currently. I think another pass at the inclusion of PVP would give that community another opportunity to check NL out. NL can be a server where everyone has a fun time in a down-to-earth classic-esque UO experience.
As it stands today, PVP in NL is 100% consensual and largely nonexistent as a result. Open-world PVP is impossible unless you are VvV and run across another VvV, which is unlikely because the risk heavily outweighs the reward for VvV. Spawns offer one, sole, avenue for a player to PVP, but since it’s consensual nobody is clicking it as the risk heaving outweighs the reward once again. Dungeon outposts are in a strange position as well, with what seem like a high entry wall and offer no reward system. Without some changes, PVP will cease to exist on NL and the PVP players will be alienated from joining or attempting to play NL.
I know not everyone wants PVP in their gameplay experience. I respect that completely, and I am not advocating for an experience that differs drastically from the baseline gameplay of NL or current production UO. While your opinion on this might be a steadfast NO, solely because the topic is PVP, I would consider the value of the long term longevity of NL by introducing a currently alienated playerbase to the NL community. We all want NL to succeed, and we need players for that to happen.
VvV Guilds
The Problem
VICE is a large VvV guild that really exists for the purpose of testing systems and gameplay loops. However, I see no point in a VvV guild on launch solely based upon the experience.
Possible Solutions
Risk-reward. Risk: a high potential for being killed and losing your items. Reward: a high chance at receiving special drops.
Open-World PVP
The Problem
I want to clarify that I am not advocating for 1997-era open-world PVP. We know that didn’t work and we know why it didn’t work. It would work less today than it did in 1997. In a primarily consensual environment, PVP can still exist. But there has to be a reason for it to exist. There is an inherent risk to joining a VvV guild, and if there is no reward outside of a gate pass to be able to PVP other VvV, it likely won’t occur naturally or at all.
Possible Solutions
The most likely method of creating open-world PVP is through VvV, but giving players a reason to join VvV by adding reward to the risk. However, I don’t want that reward to make players that didn’t join VvV feel as if they’re receiving a degraded experience by not joining. VvV artifacts are a good example of this. I think VvV should make obtaining some items easier, but those items should still be available to non-VvV.
Champion Spawns and Dungeons
The Problem
Champion Spawns (CS) are a core part of UO at this point and are certainly a part of NL. For the first 5 weekends CS were largely empty outside of the VICE guild and a small handful of people, who were willing to participate. It took until week 6 for the general playerbase to start attending CS in any sort of numbers. When you enter a CS area you are prompted to flag or not to flag. Nobody is flagging, and those who did say it was an accident.
Players’ interaction with this system has left it irrelevant and they have invalidated the consensual system entirely. As is stands, the consensual popup is being treated like one of those invasive app popups that if you accidentally click on the wrong thing bad things happen and you just want it to go away.
The original spawns have always been in Fel and have worked around that type of ruleset. There are safe spawns, but the loot and/or difficulty reflects it. The removal of that from these spawns is kneecapping a huge and popular avenue for natural PVP to occur.
Dungeons are a dangerous yet eerily safe place right now. Many of the dungeons we enter have enemies that are trivialized, even with the lack of mods on our gear. The exception is the deeper levels of dungeons. Deeper levels of dungeons might be a prime location for more risk-reward with the introduction of PVP.
Possible Solutions
Champion Spawns
On week 1 when you entered a spawn area you seemed to be flagged immediately. This was changed to the current system. I am proposing a system where you are greeted by the menu, but it’s also on a 60s timer. If you select OK you are flagged. If you ignore if for 60s it closes and you are flagged. You can continue the CS at your own risk. This reintroduces risk-reward to some aspect of the PVP landscape.
The primary argument against this is locking loot behind PVP. The problem with this argument is, if that were the case, Power Scrolls, Stat Scrolls, and CS Artifacts would not be available to PVE players. Historically, CS give PVP players a reason to log on and participate in open-world content. Harping on risk-reward, this is a natural risk-reward system that UO has and has had for quite some time.
Deeper Levels of Dungeons
What if deeper levels of dungeons offered additional risk? Not only are the enemies themselves more dangerous, but the deeper you go the less the law of the land protects you? This is an idea that may coincide with the CS flagging model that has been proposed. There are many dungeons that would still be safe in their entirety, but others may not be so safe. This could open up some fun design avenues as you expand dungeons such as Shame 2+, Fire, etc.
Dungeon Outposts/PVP Arenas
The Problem
Dungeon Outposts are an interesting addition, but I as well as others have yet to figure out how they play into the gameplay loop. Currently they are locked behind a fairly big wall of entry, and even when you gain entry and complete one there isn’t any obvious purpose. In my experience they aren’t really all that much fun. They feel artificial, extremely samey, and are very limited in long-term repetitive play.
Possible Solutions
I hate to say this but after a lot of group discussion we don’t know how to make this fun. It might need a full revamp to be remotely enjoyable and replayable. As it stands, I’d queue once and never again. Even if it did offer rewards.
Risk-Reward in PVE
Currently there are 8 bosses. 4 standalone and 4 CS bosses. As it stands, all 8 seem to have the same probability of dropping items, or close enough within reason. Keeping the 4 standalone bosses extremely straightforward and easy for a chance at a drop is great. Adding some risk-reward to the 4 CS bosses with a higher loot probability would be a great addition to the gameplay loop. The CS takes longer and is overall much harder than a normal boss. It should naturally have better chances at drops (or better drops) anyway. Add the risk-reward of PVP on top of that and you have a fairly compelling end-game PVE/PVP experience.
For those who do not want to participate, you still have 4 standalone bosses to run on a constant loop, as most have done throughout the beta. Very few players have participated in the 4 CS bosses compared to the 4 standalone bosses. For the vast majority of players, the addition of PVP to CS would have no effect on their experience. I don’t want to generalize too much, as I know there are players who don’t fit into the generalizations.
Again, I know there is a contingent of players who unequivocally dislike PVP. I totally get that. Likewise, there is a contingent of players who love PVP and praise UO for it’s unparalleled PVP to this day. In an ideal world, both contingents can call NL home.
Let's discuss, bring your ideas! I know this is a PVP thread, but we can keep this civil and constructive.
Comments
For PVPers to maintain their house, allow them points from PVP towards their monthly housing total, in addition to job board jobs.
Trying to think of some rewards for PVPers.
1.) Outposts are dead content that is not suitable for the realities of online and game balance, they may or may not exist in any format, in the state in which they currently exist within the guilds, no one will do this anyway.
2.) We only need a 1v1 arena with a rating and a leaderboard (maybe 2v2 but I’m not sure) and build the entire further pvp balance around 1v1 based on the results of the current meta in this table - this will make it very easy to track builds that really need in fixes and in what needs to be buffed.
3.) Open pvp on champion (only champs, bosses will stay PvM content) spawns but only between guilds, remove the opportunity to be a non-pvp guild, if you want to be untouched, just stay blue or create alliances, blue cannot participate in champs (they will not cause damage as afk protection at events ), if you want Champs, be ready to either negotiate or fight - this is an MMO.
3.1.) As an extra reward for pvp at spawns, you can add currency or an item that could launch a selected or random unique champion into lost lands with some unique rewards, the launch of such an event would open up absolute FFA and chaos (free for all) + general announcement in in all chats that such a boss is running.
4.) The reward for pvp on champs is your loot that you will receive, you don’t need a larger reward. The reward for the arena (let's say the first 3 places) is a medal in the journal or a unique seasonal title that is tied to the account (something like the gladiator in Warcraft seasons 1, 2, 3) perhaps a unique ethereal mount only for first place, no more rewards , the first places of the 10 players are easily checked - they are bots or dummy characters manually by GMs
Mby some artifacts like shield with 1 fc and sc or hci.
Mby just normal artifacts that they are now but extra boss summon item for lost land that will make guilds start pvp events when they want it.
Mby some only pvp related items like jewelry with 50EP or ssi or fc but not like 9 mods but only one per item for ballance and build diversity in pvp.