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New Legacy: Ranger, Subcalss and Advanced training

GarretGarret Posts: 184
edited July 29 in New Legacy
  Hello dear developers, i had a bad expirience with interracting with core skills of ranger class and farther interraction trough the subclass and advanced training system.
  After completing main story as a core class you have no choice on the road to what skill you train becouse main story is require you to learn certain skills, for ranger class set is:
- Archery
- Anatomy
- Healing
- Tactics
- Focus
- Tracking
(skill cap 720, but ranger use only 600 points so we have 120 free points also)

  Archery and Tracking is fundamental skills for ranger class that mean u can't remove them by using advanced training system, other skills is removable and you can pick different set of skills but Archery and Tracking for ranger class will stay.

  Then i learn what subclasses i can pick:
- Assasin
- Animal Taming
- Bard

  Then i tryed to learn first subclass - bard, this choice will remove skills:
-Focus
-Tactics

and gives three bard skills:
-Discordance
-Provocation
-Peacemaking

Bard skills from  subclass is not fundamental and can be removed by advanced training - that part is important!


  So first i tought i can remove tracking and just pick tactics or focus instead, but then i realise that Tracking is fundamental for Ranger and can not be removed.

  I was a bit sad about tacking in this list becouse i found 0 usability from this skill, i tested it many ways and found no dmg or hit or any other purposes besides RP, some sort of just blank class balans  or some usless pvp usability becouse range of tracking is very small.

  Then i tryed to add second subclass just for testing, and system gives me this option.
  

So i become Ranger without fundamental Archery skill but with Tracking...
As i said before ther was a third choice of subclass as Assasin but for some reason after i pick Bard this choice is desapear and i have no clue how to test it (this choice were in lecaeum in Monglow but npc wouldn't talk to me anymore).

SOOOOOO what a main question about this system? 

If I had chosen the assassin subclass and replaced some other skills, wouldn’t it turn out that after choosing a bard and a tamer, my ranger would end up without any fundamental skills at all and I would then be able to return the combination I needed becouse all subclass skills is removably by advanced training, do we realy need to go this long road to remove fundamental skills and just not by dvanced traing?? remove this fundamental class skills system that for my opinion is not working...

P.S. Sorry for my english im not native.
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Comments

  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 613
    Yeah, Tracking is just straight up useless as it is, both on live shards and on New Legacy Beta. The range for it to pick up an entity is way too short (just barely off your screen, even at GM Tracking), and the Tracking arrow updates too slowly (making it pretty crap for tracking stealthing players). It doesn't add any bonuses whatsoever to use either.
  • AnukanakaAnukanaka Posts: 17
    @Kyronix
    Could you please react somehow 

    Why we could have ranger-tamer-bard without Archery but with Tracking ? 
    Why we need tracking at all, skill cap is only 720, and we have to fill it with useless skills like tracking...

    Also there is question about advanced skill training for crafters, i was hoping to make a crafter with Lumber+Carpentry + BS + Mining + Tailoring and Inscript + Magery, 
    and what was my disappointment when I realized that the Inscript and Magery were not available to me.
    Could you add Inscription also to a Crafters Coalition, not only to Magery path 

    Also Lumber could be available to Fighter subclass, its nice to have it with swords and fight with axes 



  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 1,180Dev
    The idea behind core skills is to keep within the class archetype fantasy as you progress through New Legacy with your chosen path. We are monitoring feedback on the locked "core" skills and evaluating the system
  • looploop Posts: 383
    edited August 4
    Unless NL will launch with mechanics that make Tracking interesting, you should consider removing it, as it is mostly a useless skill. Additionally, Focus is not very useful, but maybe not terribly so in the context of NL, which has less overpowered items than the production shards.

    As a player who is not new to UO, I resented having both on my template and that I had no choice in the matter, but perhaps this will open up in later publishes.
  • GarretGarret Posts: 184
    edited August 4
    Focus is good it give u stamina and mana regeneration so u can keep press bard songs or weapon abilitys and also stamina regen so u can keep ur swing speed at max possible, focus is totaly fine but reason of tracking is anknown bcz for other clasess all skills work fine atleast as i know.

    P.S. Traking could be like this:
    1. Passive bonus 5% hit chance, 1% for 10% of skill above 50% (or even more just for example).
    2. Active bonus: activate tracking for 30 sec in cost of 15% of ur current mana (no upkeep) (or no mana just a guess about downsides for balance wise), each success hit put tracking mark on taget for 5sec (or 10s) and give 5% or 10% dmg modifier.
    Numbers are not insane but it something atleast and good for pvp and pve.

    @Kyronix @Bleak
  • looploop Posts: 383
    Garret said:
    Focus is good it give u stamina and mana regeneration so u can keep press bard songs or weapon abilitys and also stamina regen so u can keep ur swing speed at max possible, focus is totaly fine but reason of tracking is anknown bcz for other clasess all skills work fine atleast as i know.

    P.S. Traking could be like this:
    1. Passive bonus 5% hit chance, 1% for 10% of skill above 50% (or even more just for example).
    2. Active bonus: activate tracking for 30 sec in cost of 15% of ur current mana (no upkeep) (or no mana just a guess about downsides for balance wise), each success hit put tracking mark on taget for 5sec (or 10s) and give 5% or 10% dmg modifier.
    Numbers are not insane but it something atleast and good for pvp and pve.

    @ Kyronix @ Bleak

    Not dissimilar from a certain free shard which made Tracking more useful, I gather.

    Adding combat-related mechanisms to Tracking would go along with the sort of "favored enemy" idea you see with Rangers archetypes across RPGs. For example, I am tracking enemies of type "Ogre". Therefore, I get bonuses against Ogres. There are a lot of opportunities for non-combat-related mechanics as well with NL that tie in with quests, etc.

    I guess if Tracking remains mostly useless maybe Hiding would be a decent alternative and could still fit within the Ranger archetype. Hiding can be handy as an archer by allowing you to run away and shed hate.
  • GyngersnapGyngersnap Posts: 13
    Kyronix said:
    The idea behind core skills is to keep within the class archetype fantasy as you progress through New Legacy with your chosen path. We are monitoring feedback on the locked "core" skills and evaluating the system
    One of the things I love about UO is being able to change a character if I either don't like a skill or want to try something different. It is something most former players remember. You aren't stuck with a character you don't like and don't have to start over completely.

    For example: I started a warrior because I thought it would be easier and cheaper since I wouldn't have to buy reagents. The thought was that I would make some money and then switch to mage tamer when I was more established. Now I am being told that if I switch I can't change my stats so that wouldn't work. Someone new or returning may quit out of frustration. This is especially important since you only get 2 character slots. 
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 613
    edited August 10
    Kyronix said:
    The idea behind core skills is to keep within the class archetype fantasy as you progress through New Legacy with your chosen path. We are monitoring feedback on the locked "core" skills and evaluating the system

    In PvM, Tracking should give an "Enemy of One" or "Honor" damage-modifier like effect. Similar to the "Favored Enemy" mechanic that Rangers get in D&D. Maybe even a 5-10% Critical Chance on hits (ignores all resists, which Lightning Strike can sometimes do) on production shards, since most players are hitting the 300% Damage Modifier cap on prodo shards.

    For PvP, having an enemy Tracked, should make it to where if Revealed, they are unable to re-hide by any means (Hiding, Smoke/Egg Bomb, Invis Pot/Turkey Feather, maybe an exception for Shadow Strike) for at least 10 seconds. This means that if a Stealther is tracked and revealed, his only option is to fight or run. "You can run, but you can't hide".
    Currently, if you have a Stealther tracked (which the tracking arrow oftentimes lags behind their actual position), and reveal them, they'll just re-hide immediately before you can do anything to them. Then you're left with a 10 sec CD on your Detect Hidden skill, or re-casting Reveal.
  • LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 930
    Anukanaka said:
    @ Kyronix
    Could you please react somehow 

    Why we could have ranger-tamer-bard without Archery but with Tracking ? 
    Why we need tracking at all, skill cap is only 720, and we have to fill it with useless skills like tracking...

    Also there is question about advanced skill training for crafters, i was hoping to make a crafter with Lumber+Carpentry + BS + Mining + Tailoring and Inscript + Magery, 
    and what was my disappointment when I realized that the Inscript and Magery were not available to me.
    Could you add Inscription also to a Crafters Coalition, not only to Magery path 

    Also Lumber could be available to Fighter subclass, its nice to have it with swords and fight with axes 




    Kyronix said:
    The idea behind core skills is to keep within the class archetype fantasy as you progress through New Legacy with your chosen path. We are monitoring feedback on the locked "core" skills and evaluating the system

    I came to look specifically for why a crafter can't learn magery and I did find this but now someone has to explain it to me like I'm 5 because I still don't get why.

    Why can't I have a tailor / lumberjack / carpenter that can use fireballs to kill cows for leather and can recall to where I need to go to gather resources?
  • PinochlePinochle Posts: 39
    Just a note, I WAS able to switch my tailor/carpenter/blacksmith/alchemist(50) from a swordsman to an archer with a Thunder Casting Bow, and out in the open, he is a lot of fun.
  • HippoHippo Posts: 312
    Archer makes sense with a Crafter build. You can make your own ammo any time you run out. I wonder though if the primary skills of swordsmanship and lumberjacking combine for more damage like they do on prodo shards...

    Pinochle said:
    Just a note, I WAS able to switch my tailor/carpenter/blacksmith/alchemist(50) from a swordsman to an archer with a Thunder Casting Bow, and out in the open, he is a lot of fun.
  • PinochlePinochle Posts: 39
    Trhoughout the Ranger quest line, (but you have to actually read the RPG dribble that slowly drags out as you do the quests) is a reference as to how you are able to use your Tracking Ability to find which direction to go, or follow which path in the Hedge Maze to lead where you need to go. So I can see why Tracking is a core skill, because the quest line would be foolish sprouting on about how your tracking is saving the day, if you did not actually have tracking. However, changing Tracking from a core skill to an RPG description of the Ranger Class (they combined tinkering and blacksmithing, they combined carpentry with fletching, just take it a wee bit farther and combine Tracking in title for RPG only with the Quivers Rangers get.

    Also, the snide remarks about changing Tracking to a functional skill adjusted by a dreaded free shard (first I have heard of it, really) just reminds me of the BLACK CLOTHING DYE (same influence adopted by the real game) OR the SUNGLASSES (also same influence adopted by the real game) There may be more, I sleep a lot, but changing the production shards with improvements demonstrated from outside sources is not an original thought, they have done it before, perhaps it IS time to do it again, at least consider it.

    Oh, and please fix my Ranger standing at the rear of the boat paralized and unable to get to the captain and tell him how we killed the Orc Champion, With only two charaacters, and one stuck in limbo waiting for a fix (ok that is a lie, I have two paid accounts so really have four slots, but this problem is not for me alone, there are others stuck on the ship unable to move) Maybe use a tracking RPG workaround?

    Using my tracking ability I deftly dodge the obsticles in my path and find my way through to the captain to anounce our success and finally get off this ship and go home !!!

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