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The UO Forums are too heavily moderated

MacroPlanetMacroPlanet Posts: 73
in General Discussions
As I've become more involved in this community, I've observed that the Ultima Online forums appear to be more heavily moderated than other gaming or MMORPG forums. While I acknowledge the necessity of closing threads when they devolve into explicit language or border on illegal behavior, I've noticed instances where threads were closed due to what seemed like minor trolling, hardly warranting such action.

The UO community needs a platform where its members can freely express their thoughts on the game and discuss any concerns they may have. Unfortunately, it feels like these forums tend to shut down posts that engage in just that. The reasoning behind thread closures is sometimes unclear, leading to speculation that moderators might have pre-existing biases against specific players, automatically opting to close threads involving them.

I would strongly advise against this approach. Excessive moderation creates a rift between the moderation team, developers, and players. A more lenient stance, akin to the WoW forums, could be beneficial. There, critical posts about Blizzard and their games are allowed, with moderation only stepping in when the language becomes violent or abusive.

My personal recommendation is for the moderation team to reassess their level of interference with player opinions. Just because a statement is negative doesn't necessarily mean it warrants closure. Restraining your own player base doesn't reflect well and might strain the vital connection between the community and the developers.

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,987Moderator
    The primary rule on this forum is treat other users with respect, when users turn on one another to insult and denigrate that rule is broken. Discuss the issues, by all means, but keep it impersonal.
  • MacroPlanetMacroPlanet Posts: 73
    Mariah said:
    The primary rule on this forum is treat other users with respect, when users turn on one another to insult and denigrate that rule is broken. Discuss the issues, by all means, but keep it impersonal.
    In my observation that has been far from the truth. 

    This post was closed for no reason and there did not seem to be any of the impersonal attacks: https://forum.uo.com/discussion/13609/atlantic-on-vacation#latest

    This post was closed : https://forum.uo.com/discussion/13606/no-reason-to-stay-is-a-good-reason-to-go#latest

    This post was closed because of some third-party client, “agenda” mention. I would argue to leave these kind of things up and just edit out any mention of a third-party client: https://forum.uo.com/discussion/13555/newsletter-17-reveals-a-core-problem#latest

    This post was removed because they did not have a positive experience, most of the time when people have an issue with a game it’s not going to be a positive experience and so where are the people supposed to turn to discuss these issues? https://forum.uo.com/discussion/13522/has-broadsword-decided-to-let-uo-die#latest

    These were just a couple of examples I found more recently. As stated above, these forms are heavily moderated, let the people of Ultima Online discuss Ultima Online. in my observations, discussions are mostly civil and don’t attack people,


  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,987Moderator
    hmm, seems I forgot to submit my reply and reasons for locking after the 7 posts I removed on that first thread, I apologise for that.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,027
    Mariah said:
    The primary rule on this forum is treat other users with respect, when users turn on one another to insult and denigrate that rule is broken. Discuss the issues, by all means, but keep it impersonal.
    One mod is fair and even handed the other let's personal feelings effect their judgment then the sugar trolling is not only allowed but encouraged  then people like me frustrated with lack of communication etc act stupid and it's a poop show
  • TimTim Posts: 796
    I disagree for the most part Mariah is doing a good job. 
    Letting the same people rant that they don't like Broadsword policy and how they could do it better endlessly serves no purpose.
    Other than drive other people away to form an echo chamber for the few.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,904
    Letting players voice be heard is the reason for a forum.

    If the Dev just want to hear nice words then pls shut down this forum.

    Go and sing praises to yourself when all paying customers are gone, let's see who pay your salary. This is a paid game.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,904
    I completely dislike hypocrites that doesn't help improve the game. ohh clicks is good, standing at same spot to harvest a reward was applauded just to make Dev happy. Why are we players paying to make the paid guy happy? 
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,308
    edited January 9
    I don’t always agree with the reasoning given, assuming some is, for closing some of these threads.  And, I think in a lot of threads on the same subject that continue to show all the time could be answered better by management just giving a general explanation of the problem before closing them (am starting once in awhile to see this now).  But, I have to agree with Mariah’s first statement that, especially for some discussions taking place a few months ago, that a lot of times the discussions just turned into slugfests and should have been closed.

    I think the responses to my discussion on the games biggest shard, Atlantic, being down indicated the shard was down for more than five hours.  Think players deserved an explanation as to what happened from some one authorized to give one before closing the discussion.  Think Larisa deserves an answer to her question about Origin too.




  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,987Moderator
    I don't disagree @Arnold7 but any explanation will not appear here, if there is one, it will be posted on the main front page. A little patience may be required, because if, as I suspect, it was a cause not within their control, an amount of investigation and enquiry will be needed.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,210
    Guys...we have a community manager now to take the lashings. 

  • HeavySmokerHeavySmoker Posts: 50
    Mariah said:
    The primary rule on this forum is treat other users with respect, when users turn on one another to insult and denigrate that rule is broken. Discuss the issues, by all means, but keep it impersonal.
    I respect the moderation. You've done a great job cleaning up a thread I was seeking help from and the trolls couldn't handle not bashing me due to taking their in game hostility into the forums, great job at keeping this place clean.

  • MerlinMerlin Posts: 207
    edited January 10
    I can speak from experience as a moderator on Stratics that it is a thankless job.   Do not underestimate the non-sense that forum moderators have to tolerate behind the scenes with nasty PMs, obtrusive personalities, and always having to deal with accusations about fairness and rule enforcement.   

    The moderators here do as good a job here as possible in consideration with the mandate they've been given.   Is this forum over moderated a bit?  Perhaps, but it's likely been necessary.  A year or so ago, argument could be made it wasn't being moderated enough.  It's a fine line and there is no perfect formula to making the majority of the community happy.  

    There have been times I have logged in to see the entire front page full of threads by the same 2 or 3 trolls who are regurgitating the same small handful of complaints on repeat.  You know what I end up doing?  Hitting the back button and deciding not to participate or read through other topics.  It's a turn off.   That's probably the worst result the developers want, but I can speak for myself and many others that the exhaustion of forum trolls has hurt the perception of these boards significantly. Heavy moderation has been needed.

    With a smaller (and older!) community like ours, the style of moderation required here is going to be different than what you would see somewhere such as for Elder Scrolls or WoW. Comparing our community to a game with 200k+ subs is probably not an apples to apples comparison.
  • CovfefeCovfefe Posts: 239
    edited January 10
    Merlin said:

     same small handful of complaints on repeat.
    People shouldn't have to repeat a complaint.
    Trying to claim that rubber banding is working as intended, is the biggest joke i have ever read on any game forum.
    And makes everyone involved in the cover up, look like an idiot.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,027
    Merlin said:
    I can speak from experience as a moderator on Stratics that it is a thankless job.   Do not underestimate the non-sense that forum moderators have to tolerate behind the scenes with nasty PMs, obtrusive personalities, and always having to deal with accusations about fairness and rule enforcement.   

    The moderators here do as good a job here as possible in consideration with the mandate they've been given.   Is this forum over moderated a bit?  Perhaps, but it's likely been necessary.  A year or so ago, argument could be made it wasn't being moderated enough.  It's a fine line and there is no perfect formula to making the majority of the community happy.  

    There have been times I have logged in to see the entire front page full of threads by the same 2 or 3 trolls who are regurgitating the same small handful of complaints on repeat.  You know what I end up doing?  Hitting the back button and deciding not to participate or read through other topics.  It's a turn off.   That's probably the worst result the developers want, but I can speak for myself and many others that the exhaustion of forum trolls has hurt the perception of these boards significantly. Heavy moderation has been needed.

    With a smaller (and older!) community like ours, the style of moderation required here is going to be different than what you would see somewhere such as for Elder Scrolls or WoW. Comparing our community to a game with 200k+ subs is probably not an apples to apples comparison.
    Years to make me into the poster i am today a little communication and accountability keeps trolls away 
  • okchaokcha Posts: 12
    I always appreciate a good moderated forum, keep the toxicity/bullies on a short leash, and build a humble, gracious, friendly community ( imho)
  • SkettSkett Posts: 1,405
    edited January 11
    just delete the trolls post and ban them after so many but keep the threads going is how I feel it would help out here. Ive seen a lot of threads here After they've been locked that I would have posted in but cant because of a few !@#!$ keep getting the threads locked just block these trolls from posting ? seems doable ?

    ahhh really doesn't matter I have nothing important to say anyhow :/
  • MacroPlanetMacroPlanet Posts: 73
    edited January 11
    While heavy moderation may intend to maintain order, it often erodes trust and can feel biased. Although trolls occasionally disrupt with offensive language, their voices may stem from years of being overlooked from the dev team. 

    Considering the enduring player base, loyal to UO even in 2024, it's crucial to recognize the potential insights these so-called 'trolls' might bring. With our new community manager in place, it's reasonable to expect improved communication from the development team, even if it's a simple reassurance to "be patient for an update."

    Allowing individuals to express themselves fosters understanding, but intervention becomes necessary if discussions escalate beyond manageable levels. Striking a balance between free expression and moderation is crucial for a healthy and constructive community environment, especially one as old as UO.

    I genuinely comprehend the challenges of the role. Serving as a moderator on another platform, I engage with thousands weekly, each approaching from diverse and competitive perspectives. I recognize the demanding and often underappreciated nature of this responsibility. Yet, I emphasize the significance of allowing individuals to express themselves, balancing it with the awareness of when it reaches an unhealthy extent.
  • CovfefeCovfefe Posts: 239
    edited January 11
    hi @Venom , sorry the forum mod closed this thread in error as he was misinformed so i could not reply on that valid thread, I cannot blame him as no info in game or in wiki. I too would not have realized that there were penalties to playing on CC if an EC player didn't demonstrate to me these fixed issues.

    In CC if you press a bandage-self macro before a current bandage has applied, the penalty is you lose a bandage and the bandage application timer is completely reset, this penalty does not exist in EC.

    In CC if you cast attunement (or ethereal voyage) while on a hidden cool-down, your character will freeze for no reason, this penalty also does not exist in EC.
  • TimTim Posts: 796
    Try EC it works exactly as you describe in CC
  • CovfefeCovfefe Posts: 239
    edited January 11
    I logged into EC to check this is the case, you need to put the bandages and those specific spells on a hotbar in EC then assign a hotkey to those then you don't get these penalties Tim. Maybe you did not put your macros on a hotbar.

    Instead of just assuming I was wrong and closing the thread. 
  • TimTim Posts: 796
    I tried your method and it still works the same for bandages only one target at a time.
  • CovfefeCovfefe Posts: 239
    edited January 11
    yes is working perfectly in EC, but if you try on CC, you lose the bandage and the timer is reset. There is very bad penalty on CC, say you have applied a bandage (say 10 seconds to apply) and press to reapply after only 9.99 seconds, the first bandage will not apply, it will re-apply and you lose a whole bandage and timer is reset from 9.99 seconds right back to 0. This is a very bad penalty for CC players. You could do this 2 or more times in a row and never finish applying any bandages in CC. CC gives a very big human error penalty for premature application that does not exist in EC.

    My inquiry was if they are going to remove these penalties. Or else people get encouraged to automate these actions to remove the catastrophic human error penalties from CC that do not even exist in EC.
  • TimTim Posts: 796
    Please describe what you think happens in EC and what you think should happen when you start applying a second bandage.
  • CovfefeCovfefe Posts: 239
    edited January 11
    In EC, if you put a bandage on a hotbar - (set to target self EG) and assign a hotkey, when you press the hotkey to apply a bandage, it will apply a bandage, if you press the hotkey again while a bandage is already being applied, nothing happens. This is correct.

    This is not what happens on CC, they give big big penalty for even 0.0001  second of human error, resulting in people automating the process in CC only - to remove the penalty that is not even present in EC.

    I refuse to use automation/third party programs, so would like to know, if they plan on removing the penalties that are classic client specific.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,027
    Now let's not let mervs nonsense get this locked just delete it and ban yet another one of his accounts 
  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 1,177
    Max bandage time is 4 seconds, if you really can't stand to loose ONE stinkin bandage, just count to 4, or pay attention to the system message you get when you've successfully healed. It's really not a game changer or a penalty, 4 seconds is 4 seconds no matter what client you're in.  Just don't jump the gun and watch for the message, that's why it's there.

    Why do people always make mountains out of mole hills?

  • CovfefeCovfefe Posts: 239
    edited January 11
    your character with 4 second healing is probably a warrior, with high dexterity. Some people play other templates that require high intelligence where its not possible to get 150/150/150 stats

    So some people have 10+ second heal timer, it's a big penalty regardless to basically lose the around 70 damage heal that you should've received. I mean, if you think you're better at PvP than me, and everyone else who is currently automating bandages to solve the issue then okay congrats on your flawless application ability, but i don't see you in the field much.

    Its not the loss of a bandage, its the loss of the 10+ seconds/damage healed.

    If its not a penalty and not a big deal, whats the problem with removing the penalty? since EC players don't have it

    I tell you what, all these people who are using a script to apply bandages, i will message them and tell them hey, you can delete that script cos Larisa says just don't jump the gun and keep an eye out. OKay thanks. I mean, why they wrote it in the first place?
  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 1,177
    Adjust...that's what I do.

    I just recently put necro on my archer and healing on my sampire...why? So I have options.

    But some people just like to complain so..have at it ;)

  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,259
    I adjusted. :)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,259
    Btw - I'm fine with forum moderation, have no issues personally.

    Mervyn's points are valid in context, and he probably needs his own category.
This discussion has been closed.