Horrors of the Dark Dynamic Champion Spawn Masks drops : are they CAPPED ?

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  • poppspopps Posts: 3,026
    edited December 2021
    Merus said:
    Perhaps a little different take on popps issue… rather than changing the number of drops, make the dynamic spawns not revert.
    I am not sure that I understand how this change would solve the issue lamented...

    If the CAP of item dropped was to stay, and the spawn was to no longer "drop back" to lower waves, a late comer player would still need to deal with whatever Spawn waves remain PLUS the killing of the Boss, alone, which will still take considerable time of this player... and all for nothing, just to get the Spawn to reset....

    Not to mention that, as I said, I find it contradictory Design wise that, a Spawn that was Designed to be a "Group effort", would then expect a solo player, instead, to have to necessarily deal with such a Spawn and the killing of the Boss all alone, if he/she just wanted to Reset that Spawn, if no other players are available on that Shard to join, whether because not interested any longer since they got all they wanted from that Spawn, or because that Server happens to be a low population one with too few players online at once....

    Honestly, I do not see how it would help solve the issue for players coming late to this type of Spawn once all other players have lost interest in spending their time in it....

    Having the Spawn reset automatically, instead, after X time that no player was to interact with the MoBs, or if the player was not effective enough to advance it or kill the Boss within a reasonable amount of time, this, would solve the issue and for good....

    Because, if there are players sufficient enough to advance the Spawn and kill the Boss, it would be business as usual, the Spawn would progress normally and the Boss killed within the set amount of deadline time allocated for that task.

    Otherwise, if not, that is, if no players were to deal with the Spawn/Boss or the one or 2 players trying to, were to be not successful enough to advance it within the set paramethers, the Spawn would reset, thus giving to these players the ability to, at least, work it to get whatever items drops that the Spawn, not the Boss, was meant to give.

    Personally, I see this solution as a more permanent one that would effectively deal with the issues and problems which late players coming to this type of Spawn might face.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,026
    edited December 2021
    Classic example is demanding that u be able to use a thief in a paragon dungeon.
    There ALREADY is in the game, Design meant to enhance the ability for characters to remain hidden and not be revealed.

    For example, the Shadow Ninjitsu Mastery.

    So, it is not unthinkable that a thief, perhaps given some Mastery abilities to the Profession like other Professions already have (why is it that Thieves do not have their Mastery abilities ?) was to be made capable of remaining hidden and stealthing even from Paragons when trying to deal with hidden Chests containing the Treasures of Artifact Drops or, when attempting to steal them from Monsters....

    And no, it would not be overpowered because the Developers could require, just like it is for Bard Masteries, "multiple" Rogue Skills to be present, as REAL skill, in order to unlock this privilege to remain hidden and stealthing even when in presence of Paragon MoBs....

    A full Rogue character, needs the following skills : 

    - Hiding             100.0
    - Stealthing        120.0
    - Stealing           120.0
    - Snooping         100.0
    - Detect Hidden 100.0
    - Remove Trap   100.0
    - Lockpicking      100.0

    Those alone, come up to a total of 740.0 skill points.... and there is no Magery in it, even....

    Not to mention that, in order to be able to steal, Rogues much have their hands, both of them, empty... therefore, they cannot even take advantage from properties on items held in their hands....

    So, by giving a Mastery to thieves, and associating the ability to remain hidden and stealthing to a number of those Rogue skills "real" points, no other Template but Rogues could effectively take advantage of this ability to remain hidden and stealthing even in presence of Paragons...
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,178
    I actually already posted this same exact question (which was answered)- https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9760/potential-issue-w-dynamic-spawn#latest ;

    Why does anyone even entertain this guy anymore? He's clearly posting just to troll because this topic was already discussed exactly as he wrote it.

    Funny thing is that since he apparently missed the original thread; it ended up being answered and everyone moved on with their lives... unlike this thread for the same topic which will be locked soon because all this guy does is debate people that answer his questions.
  • MerusMerus Posts: 511
    popps said:
    Merus said:
    Perhaps a little different take on popps issue… rather than changing the number of drops, make the dynamic spawns not revert.
    I am not sure that I understand how this change would solve the issue lamented...

    If the CAP of item dropped was to stay, and the spawn was to no longer "drop back" to lower waves, a late comer player would still need to deal with whatever Spawn waves remain PLUS the killing of the Boss, alone, which will still take considerable time of this player... and all for nothing, just to get the Spawn to reset....

    Not to mention that, as I said, I find it contradictory Design wise that, a Spawn that was Designed to be a "Group effort", would then expect a solo player, instead, to have to necessarily deal with such a Spawn and the killing of the Boss all alone, if he/she just wanted to Reset that Spawn, if no other players are available on that Shard to join, whether because not interested any longer since they got all they wanted from that Spawn, or because that Server happens to be a low population one with too few players online at once....

    Honestly, I do not see how it would help solve the issue for players coming late to this type of Spawn once all other players have lost interest in spending their time in it....

    Having the Spawn reset automatically, instead, after X time that no player was to interact with the MoBs, or if the player was not effective enough to advance it or kill the Boss within a reasonable amount of time, this, would solve the issue and for good....

    Because, if there are players sufficient enough to advance the Spawn and kill the Boss, it would be business as usual, the Spawn would progress normally and the Boss killed within the set amount of deadline time allocated for that task.

    Otherwise, if not, that is, if no players were to deal with the Spawn/Boss or the one or 2 players trying to, were to be not successful enough to advance it within the set paramethers, the Spawn would reset, thus giving to these players the ability to, at least, work it to get whatever items drops that the Spawn, not the Boss, was meant to give.

    Personally, I see this solution as a more permanent one that would effectively deal with the issues and problems which late players coming to this type of Spawn might face.
    I disagree as to your theory that the reason the spawn doesn’t get completely is because the players working the early levels lack the ability to complete the spawn… but even if that were true I’m perfectly ok with them doing what they can and then being required to get help to advance.

    1. The purpose I see for the cap is to prevent players from farming skulls via the lower level spawn over and over by letting it revert.  IMO that is a valid issue to address.

    2. In my experience it would be extremely unlikely that all 25 skulls would be acquired on the first pass of level 1 and 2.  Best I can tell that would mean that even through levels 3 and 4 there would still be skulls available even if the spawn was abandoned by lower level players.

    3. The level of the spawn would be a good visual indicator that the spawn has been worked by players prior to your arrival.

    4. Players who arrive late should not expect the same reward chance as players who start from the beginning, but players who play later in the day don’t deserve to have no chance at a reward.

    With the current design, players who only have a limited amount of playtime, usually in the evenings (like me) can be functionally blocked from a chance at skulls… you’re talking a good 45 minutes to solo the spawn plus 30 more minutes for it to reactivate… all just to reset it from other players farming all the skulls through reverts.  Often times that is more time than I have to play during a week day… and I do agree that it presents a design issue that should try to be addressed.
  • simple fact is you did 1 spawn got I skull, cried and posted, if you would have done another you would see it works fine,  instead you embarrass yourself and post crap here

    and NO the treasures of- paragon dungeons do NOT lend themselves to thieves. move no and bore someone els. you will NOT win this one as the devs I am pleased to say do not listen to your nonsense 
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,026
    keven2002 said:
    I actually already posted this same exact question (which was answered)- https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9760/potential-issue-w-dynamic-spawn#latest ;

    Why does anyone even entertain this guy anymore? He's clearly posting just to troll because this topic was already discussed exactly as he wrote it.

    Funny thing is that since he apparently missed the original thread; it ended up being answered and everyone moved on with their lives... unlike this thread for the same topic which will be locked soon because all this guy does is debate people that answer his questions.
    I am afraid yours and mine are 2 entirely different issues....

    Yours, if I understood it as right, discusses the Spawn dropping back to lvl 1 and that, supposedly, stopping the Masks' drops.

    The spawn I wasted about 3 quarters of an hour on, all for nothing, was at wave 3, not 1, and I still got no drops so, my take is, after learning of a 25 drops CAP, that my spawn was a different issue as yours, due to the 25 drops' CAP which your Post does not discuss.

    So, these are 2 separate issues, I am afraid.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,026
    Merus said:
    popps said:
    Merus said:
    Perhaps a little different take on popps issue… rather than changing the number of drops, make the dynamic spawns not revert.
    I am not sure that I understand how this change would solve the issue lamented...

    If the CAP of item dropped was to stay, and the spawn was to no longer "drop back" to lower waves, a late comer player would still need to deal with whatever Spawn waves remain PLUS the killing of the Boss, alone, which will still take considerable time of this player... and all for nothing, just to get the Spawn to reset....

    Not to mention that, as I said, I find it contradictory Design wise that, a Spawn that was Designed to be a "Group effort", would then expect a solo player, instead, to have to necessarily deal with such a Spawn and the killing of the Boss all alone, if he/she just wanted to Reset that Spawn, if no other players are available on that Shard to join, whether because not interested any longer since they got all they wanted from that Spawn, or because that Server happens to be a low population one with too few players online at once....

    Honestly, I do not see how it would help solve the issue for players coming late to this type of Spawn once all other players have lost interest in spending their time in it....

    Having the Spawn reset automatically, instead, after X time that no player was to interact with the MoBs, or if the player was not effective enough to advance it or kill the Boss within a reasonable amount of time, this, would solve the issue and for good....

    Because, if there are players sufficient enough to advance the Spawn and kill the Boss, it would be business as usual, the Spawn would progress normally and the Boss killed within the set amount of deadline time allocated for that task.

    Otherwise, if not, that is, if no players were to deal with the Spawn/Boss or the one or 2 players trying to, were to be not successful enough to advance it within the set paramethers, the Spawn would reset, thus giving to these players the ability to, at least, work it to get whatever items drops that the Spawn, not the Boss, was meant to give.

    Personally, I see this solution as a more permanent one that would effectively deal with the issues and problems which late players coming to this type of Spawn might face.
    I disagree as to your theory that the reason the spawn doesn’t get completely is because the players working the early levels lack the ability to complete the spawn… but even if that were true I’m perfectly ok with them doing what they can and then being required to get help to advance.

    1. The purpose I see for the cap is to prevent players from farming skulls via the lower level spawn over and over by letting it revert.  IMO that is a valid issue to address.

    2. In my experience it would be extremely unlikely that all 25 skulls would be acquired on the first pass of level 1 and 2.  Best I can tell that would mean that even through levels 3 and 4 there would still be skulls available even if the spawn was abandoned by lower level players.

    3. The level of the spawn would be a good visual indicator that the spawn has been worked by players prior to your arrival.

    4. Players who arrive late should not expect the same reward chance as players who start from the beginning, but players who play later in the day don’t deserve to have no chance at a reward.

    With the current design, players who only have a limited amount of playtime, usually in the evenings (like me) can be functionally blocked from a chance at skulls… you’re talking a good 45 minutes to solo the spawn plus 30 more minutes for it to reactivate… all just to reset it from other players farming all the skulls through reverts.  Often times that is more time than I have to play during a week day… and I do agree that it presents a design issue that should try to be addressed.
    On number 1. I can agree with your point although, the concern of players farming for drops "exploiting" the lower levels of the Spawn could be easily addressed by gving to each level of the spawn a set amount of drops as possible.
    Therefore, it would become not practical for players to just get the drops for the lower levels and then have to wait whatever time was needed for the Spawn to self-reset plus the 30 minutes in between the Spawns.

    On number 2. we can only guess how it was Designed to work, the one Spawn where I wasted about 3 quarters of an hour getting no drops, was at level 3 and, still, I did not get 1 single drop in well about 40 minutes of killing stuff.... as other players mentioned, this could well be due to an alleged CAP of 25 drops that probably, other players before me already harvested from that Spawn, living nothing to late comers like myself...

    On number 3. that is certain.... but how would that help a late comer who wanted to get some Masks' drops ? The Design of the mechanics does not issue a Warning message that all drops have been awarded already and, therefore, there is nothing to get from that Spawn any longer.... so how would the late comer player be able to know whether his/her time at that Spawn would be worth it or totally wasted ?
    Furthermore, even if there was a message warning not to bother, because all drops allocated for that Spawn have all been awarded, how to then deal with the need to reset the Spawn if no players or not enough players would want to bother with that reset ?
    And this, particularly on Servers with a low Population of players where it is even more difficult to find anyone willing to contribute to that Spawn reset.

    This is why I am asking for a change which was to prompt an "automatic" reset if that Spawn was not to be reset by players.

    On number 4. while I do not necessarily agree that late comers should be penalized, considering that the later levels of the Spawn see much tougher MoBs as compared to the first levels, if we wanted to prize early birds players, then the mechanics could be Designed to award more drops at the first, initial levels, and less drops at the later levels....
    Though, as I said, I would not see this as right, since the earlier levels are easier as compared to the later levels that are quite harder which it means more deaths, more insurance costs to cover and all that.


  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,178
    @popps - You clearly didn't read the entire thread. This is exactly related to your duplicate thread; I'm afraid.

    IBTL.

    Bing Bong!
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,026
    edited December 2021
    keven2002 said:
    @ popps - You clearly didn't read the entire thread. This is exactly related to your duplicate thread; I'm afraid.

    IBTL.

    Bing Bong!
    There is only 1 Post from Aragorn ( https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/67262/#Comment_67262 ) in which he mentions his suspect about a 25 drops' CAP (to which you reply) but the Thread does not suggest possible changes, only asks for a generic "fix" in the OP.

    I am actually, in this Thread, suggesting possible ways to deal with this problem which can hurt the gameplay of later comers to this type of Spawn who get "stuck" with no drops, as you yourself found out as I understand from your Thread, and sometimes no chances to see the Spawn reset if they are not a number of players sufficient enough to get it through with the kill of the Boss.

    As I mentioned, for a Spawn that, to my understanding, was meant to be a "group effort" and thus Designed accordingly, to ask to a solo player to have to spend a considerable time only to see it get reset (because all drops were already awarded to early birds players...), seems contradictory to me and should not be.....
  • This has become far too drawn out and boring   Even more boring than usual.  Please lock this crap 
  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,116Moderator
    In summary, and with more clarity, I hope; if I've understood correctly.
    Popps believes that if the spawn is not worked for some time instead of reverting, as is normal for champion spawns. The spawn should halt, clear, and wait for the appearance of one or more players before re-starting from the beginning.
    As there is already a thread exploring the dynamic of this type of event I believe this thread should be locked and any further discussion continued on the original thread.
This discussion has been closed.