Playing without Artifacts and Event items

Mandark

I have purchased so many artifacts and rare items in the game since returning that I believe that I have helped support a few people for a few months out of the year. I have had fun using all these end game content items, but something has been missing for me.

Pay to win has been a plague for video games from the day that it became the business model for most games. This game at its core is not a pay to win but has allowed it. I understand why, and I’m not against pay to win as if that’s the way people want to play them more power to them.

I have experienced since returning to UO there is such a power difference between playing the game with or without buying end game items. Such a difference that if you pay for items even just a few times it becomes addictive to want to grow in your in-game power. So you spend more and more money to progress in game.  The problem is, now the game has lost all substance for me. 

Is there anyone out there who plays the game without using artifacts or spending money to grow in your in-game power, and can still run end game content. Like just using items you craft and maybe up to legendary items that you find on monster loot? Is there anyone out there that plays without using the event items that promote power creep? If so, how do you do end game content?

McDougle

Meh it's possible but much harder and why would you do endgame content like the roof if not for the very items you want to avoid that being said there are so many things to do with even just crafted armor the fish monger quest all of pirating etc..

popps

Mandark said:

I have purchased so many artifacts and rare items in the game since returning that I believe that I have helped support a few people for a few months out of the year. I have had fun using all these end game content items, but something has been missing for me.

Pay to win has been a plague for video games from the day that it became the business model for most games. This game at its core is not a pay to win but has allowed it. I understand why, and I’m not against pay to win as if that’s the way people want to play them more power to them.

I have experienced since returning to UO there is such a power difference between playing the game with or without buying end game items. Such a difference that if you pay for items even just a few times it becomes addictive to want to grow in your in-game power. So you spend more and more money to progress in game.  The problem is, now the game has lost all substance for me. 

Is there anyone out there who plays the game without using artifacts or spending money to grow in your in-game power, and can still run end game content. Like just using items you craft and maybe up to legendary items that you find on monster loot? Is there anyone out there that plays without using the event items that promote power creep? If so, how do you do end game content?

Is there anyone out there who plays the game without using artifacts or spending money to grow in your in-game power, and can still run end game content. 

That, supposedly, will be the NEW Legacy Server that the Developers are working on....

No clue how long 'till done, though....

https://uo.com/ultima-online-new-legacy/

Yui_Zii_Ariya

Pretty much every RPG is about grinding gear whether you prefer to grind items yourself or buy them is entirely your own choice, I prefer to acquire items myself.  I get no joy from getting an event drop and selling it for 'X' plat or doing IDOCS for much sought after items and decking my characters out in top level gear.

I tend to start on a new shard every other year or so and enforce fairly strict rules on myself, one being not buying from players/player vendors.  It's time consuming but gives you lots of objectives to aim for.  Even something as simple as scribing and filling the first spellbook with 64 spells gives me a degree of satisfaction.

All content is possible without artis, it just makes it a little more challenging.  Inevitably your characters will eventually be decked out in artis whether you buy them or not.

Mandark

@popps I look forward to this New Legacy then. 

Mandark

@Yui_Zii_Ariya ;

I prefer to play and grind items myself as well. I just fell in the trap of spending money to play content with others because being new is for the majority a pretty lonely place to be. Blacksmithy for example is a pretty lonely profession. It used to be GM crafted items meant something. Now GM is a base or starting point for an item. You have to fill bulk orders to get supplies to get items that help you to work toward crafting items that others would use. And even the crafting part is only part of the process to make a usable item for the marketplace. Then you have to imbue and enhance. Which requires more farming or spending money. Every item in between from starting at 40 smithy to 120 smithy and having all the necessary supplies, is worthless to the marketplace. Who’s going to buy a full iron plate mail suit? Who’s going to buy a full GM iron plate mail suit? Who’s going to buy a full GM iron mage armor platemail suit?  No one really. But now who is going to buy a fully optimized mage armor suit that has 190 luck on each piece? Plenty of people. But to get from the beginning to the point of actually making marketable items is a very slow and lonely place. Hence, why I fall victim to spending money to progress faster to catch up with the rest of the UO community. There was no joy in the lonely grind except that of grinding alone and meeting milestones along the way. I don’t feel like that’s how MMO’s should be, but I digress. 

Pawain

Not sure what you mean. All my suits could have better pieces. So I look for them as I play.

Arnold7

If you participate in events like Krampus and the recent Hythloth event and search the higher end monster corpses you can get really pretty exceptional pieces for your fighter.  Most players don’t spend much time with these on my shard so they are almost always filled with mostly junk with a few exceptional pieces mixed in. Usually, if I am on for two or three hours and take the time to do this I will find a around a half dozen exceptional or close to it pieces.  Legendary pieces are not uncommon finds.  I also find great buys on vendor search.  

Will agree event items often have really desirable modifications and and that some fit slots you don’t get drops for.  My main fighter now incorporates event items in his suit.  But for most areas you don’t really absolutely need these things to create a great suit.

Mandark

It’s not just about acquiring good items, it’s all the in between to get to the point of acquiring them. I have multiple platinum valued items that I either earned or payed for over the past 3 years of playing. What happened to the game that made this mmo actually carry the meaning of an mmo?  It should no longer be called a mmo, instead it should be called a egmmo (end game mmo). Everything up until you get to end game is not multiplayer. Now of course I know there will be people who say, well that’s not how I played, or will be defenders of the UO realm, and this is by no means me knocking this game. In fact I love it and have loved it every since I played in 1997. 

I’m more frustrated with what the game has evolved into. I guess what I was asking is, can the game be played and reached to the highest levels of success without using artifacts or event items? Are there also people who agree that this game has evolved into items are mostly valueless ( or almost undesirable) in the UO marketplace unless it is an artifact/event item or highly difficult specifically crafted item? That everything in between is literally vender junk. 

Imagine someone who’s never played this game back in the 90’s. Who never played from 2000 to 2020, but decided to pick it up now. Then decided hey I like crafting, I think I will be a blacksmith. How long would you think that it would be before he could craft an item that someone who’s been playing the game for 20 years could use or want? Or someone who’s been playing for 5? Or someone who’s been playing for 1 month and spent $1000 dollars on items and character upgrades? 

This is by no means me ranting about how I dislike the game. The game is fun, but I feel like it’s evolved into promoting new or returning players to want to pay to win in order to become relevant in game and everything you do to get there is a lonely climb to the top and wouldn’t be possible unless you paid to get there. 

Remember when reagents mattered for mages?

McDougle

Ah I see now the problem is you're in love with memories and you can unfortunately never go back now you can choose to play using only player made gear you can even properly find enough like minded people to form a guild but that magic is gone..

popps

McDougle said:

Ah I see now the problem is you're in love with memories and you can unfortunately never go back now you can choose to play using only player made gear you can even properly find enough like minded people to form a guild but that magic is gone..

As I said in my Post above, that is, at least to my understanding, what the NEW Legacy Server that the Developers are working on will be all about...

https://uo.com/ultima-online-new-legacy/

So, of course depending on how the New Legacy Server will be Designed, those Memories CAN come back, not sure in how much time though....

But, at least there is some light at the end of the tunnel.....

Chrille

Mandark said:

Imagine someone who’s never played this game back in the 90’s. Who never played from 2000 to 2020, but decided to pick it up now. Then decided hey I like crafting, I think I will be a blacksmith. How long would you think that it would be before he could craft an item that someone who’s been playing the game for 20 years could use or want? 

Maybe a week or less, filling bods and get powder of fortifying

Mandark

@McDougle are you a troll? Are you one of the players who have profited off of new or returning players?  I'm only asking because you are now categorizing/labeling me as some nostalgia player who can't seem to get the magic back. Isn't that what gaming is supposed to be about though? The magic whether it be old or new? If there wasn't a problem why would they be creating New Legacy?

You know, I typed up a more lengthy response to try to explain myself and realized..... what a waste of time that would be. Anything I say is my opinion and may not be received well by others and it seems like it is starting to head that direction. With that being said, I'm out. Thank you all for your responses in my other posts, and this one. I wish you all well and good luck in keeping the magic going.

McDougle

I offered suggestions on  things you can do without end game playing or gear but it's a feeling you want recaptured and we all do but it's not possible so just do what's fun to you 

Pawain

I don't even have a Luck suit.  I must not be an end game player.

McDougle

Hehehe luck suits i have but in theory using minax sandles yukio earrings etc makes it end game suit.it really is true what the OP says i  still think expanding the new haven quest would help a lot 

Yoshi

“I don’t know what end game artifacts you’re actually talking about.
You also haven’t told us what you actually do, PvP or PvM
either way, you can pick up a ton of really high end pieces of armor for 10 mill each.
The difference between a 3 plat suit and a 100mill suit is negligible. My last suit upgrade I spent 300 mill to give +4 int only. 
Whatever artifacts you feel you do need, you can always play the game and get them yourself.

Also, there are so many bargains to be had on vendor search. My most prized possession, (my clean bok mage ring) I bought this year on vendor search for I think 60 mill, I’d have paid 2 plat for it any day”

Petra_Fyde

I don't spend gold on kit, I get it myself. On occasion I have made characters on shards I don't normally play. When I do that I train them up through game play, First thing I need is a crafter who can make and imbue suits. I don't worry about 'end game'. I can have fun playing at any level. My game isn't about being able to solo everything, nor about having the biggest bank balance, it's only about enjoying playing.

keven2002

@Mandark - I think you are missing that this is why the game has lasted almost 25 years; the vast opportunities to improve a template (ie mage) or suit and once you get to a high enough level you can pick another template/suit (ie sampire or luck or garg). You can feel free to do the low level quest and whatnot (that is totally your choice) but typically people will use their more built out character to help build their new character.

People either play(ed) UO for the end game content (ie be able to do some of the hardest stuff for some of the best stuff) or play for community (i.e. guild wide fishing tournament etc). At this stage in the game (and remaining population) the latter really isn't anywhere close to where it once was so that part is a little more sparse but that still leaves the former which has always been there (I personally have been working towards doing the highest end content since 97).

You also seem to be confusing "pay to win" with simple "win" as you kind of use them like they are interchangeable when they really aren't. Having gear better than exceptional (that might sell for millions or plats) to play higher content is about trying to play higher content to get better rewards and if you want to take your time on it would be something you can do all by yourself. It's all about personal preference when it comes to that but this piece for the most part would be player to player commerce.

This shouldn't be confused with "pay to win" (which is still there via glorious potions / transfer tokens / etc) where someone is paying UO to get something that other people can't that gives them an advantage. Granted the Glorious Potions do give a very big swing in drops and the Transfer Tokens do allow people to cross shard items which are advantages but you don't actually need those to play or really get where you want to be. Sure the luck potion allows you to get more drops but the Devs ran the content for 2 full months so even without the potion you should have been able to get anything you wanted from the reward list. Transfer tokens / soul stone etc could be considered pay to play items but you can also get those yourself without paying specifically for them as a vet reward. So while UO does have a hint of pay to play, I don't think it's as much as you make it seem.

Seth

Do you mean artifacts and items bought from the store, or obtainable ingame?

I don't think there is anything from UO store that is pay to win. Please indicate which one specifically.

Saving or reduce time to craft an item is not pay to win. 

Power creep from uo store item? Which item does this?

Buying ingame obtainable items from other players is not pay to win either.

Petra_Fyde

In my opinion there is nothing in the store that a player actually needs. Yes there are a few things that are nice to have and make certain things easier, but you don't actually need any of them.
Also I believe there is no such thing as 'win' in UO. It's not that kind of game. You are not progressing to a set destination. You set your own goals, they're not set for you. That's the whole point of a sandbox game.

keven2002

Well said @Petra_Fyde (and @Seth )!

The only thing that I think that might be an upper hand that cannot be found anywhere else is the forged metal tool because if you are looking to enhance a legendry item or fully modded out item there is practically (maybe even literally) 0% chance of success without the tool.