Hi Developers.... ever thought of EASY ANTI CHEAT for Ultima Online ?

poppspopps Posts: 2,907
edited December 2021 in General Discussions
To my understanding, more and more games are using this Anti Cheat Software to stop players from cheating....

Have you ever thought about it for Ultima Online so as to finally get rid of all of the scripters, botters, AFKers and illegal Third Party Programs users etc. etc. for good ?

Just a thought....

Comments

  • Give me strength
  • dvviddvvid Posts: 646
    What kind of cheating in game have you witnessed?
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,907
    edited December 2021
    dvvid said:
    What kind of cheating in game have you witnessed?
    Are you serious ?

    From scripting to AFK farming to using unapproved Third Party Programs not to mention various hacks like speed hacks and so forth, it looks to me that Ultima Online is quite flooded by cheats, hacks and what not...
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 2,785
    popps said:
    dvvid said:
    What kind of cheating in game have you witnessed?
    Are you serious ?

    From scripting to AFK farming to using unapproved Third Party Programs not to mention various hacks like speed hacks and so forth, it looks to me that Ultima Online is quite flooded by cheats, hacks and what not...
    And have you reported each and every one?
  • dvviddvvid Posts: 646
    I was asking what YOU have personally witnessed and not what is rumored to exist. I know cheating exists in game but I’m curious what triggered you to make this thread. 

    I’ve seen scripted mining and the very scripted IDOC stuff before the change but I think that’s it for me personally. I know people use other clients but that’s tricky because some people just want a client that works better than official. 

    Regardless, I believe I recall someone saying they tried software like this once and it didn’t work out for some reason. That could be a rumor though. 
  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,070Moderator
    1. Yes, the team looked at Punkbuster many years ago. The number of false postives being reported, the difficulty in getting those errors over turned and the level of access the program required to personal data made it unacceptable
    2. All games have cheats, even those with anti cheat software
    3. Our game is so different to more modern games that my Nvidia graphics reports 'no games or apps found' when asked to scan for games. I wonder if the anti cheat software would reach the same conclussion?
    Report cheats when you come across them.
  • popps said:
    Have you ever thought about it for Ultima Online so as to finally get rid of all of the scripters, botters, AFKers and illegal Third Party Programs users etc. etc. for good ?

    Just a thought....
    UO is 24 years old, the most common scripting program has been around almost as long, any scripter worth his salt has had near 24 years to make those scripts not look like scripts.  Most daily routines you see from players these days are scripted and looks like normal play and will react to any interventions be it player or GM and those 'holier than thou' players will deny scripting.

    Detecting the programs is futile (scanning users PCs is questionable at best) which has been proven over the past 24 years.  It's not going away, learn to live with it, cheating/scripting is inherent in every game known to man.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,907
    edited December 2021
    Mariah said:
    1. Yes, the team looked at Punkbuster many years ago. The number of false postives being reported, the difficulty in getting those errors over turned and the level of access the program required to personal data made it unacceptable
    2. All games have cheats, even those with anti cheat software
    3. Our game is so different to more modern games that my Nvidia graphics reports 'no games or apps found' when asked to scan for games. I wonder if the anti cheat software would reach the same conclussion?
    Report cheats when you come across them.
    I think Easy Anti Cheat is something different as Punkbuster....

    The fact the more and more games seem to be using it, perhaps might suggest that it might seem to work in games to curb down the number of players cheating ?

    Report cheats when you come across them.

    And then what ?

    Individual reporting of cheats require individual attention and thus, manpower and resources be invested in handling all of those reports.

    Anti-cheat software which instead deals with the issue automatically, much reduces the amount of manpower and resources needed to be invested in dealing with it.

    Sure, false positives would indeed require individual attention yet, those false positives would be a FRACTION of the total cheats dealt with by the Anti-Cheat software.

    If you tell me that with Punkbuster the amount of false positives was so high that Ultima Online lacked the manpower and resources to deal with them, I do not see how, players reporting suspected Cheats could in any way be a lower number as those false positives but, I would imagine, that they would be a way much larger number as those Punkbuster's false positives...

    Therefore, if Ultima Online lacked the manpower and resources to investigate, individually those Punkbuster's false positives, I fail to see "how" Ultima Online could instead have the manpower and resources to investigate players' reports of "suspected" Cheatings fro fellow players....

    So, I ask you again, a player reports a suspected Cheat from a fellow player..... and then what ?

    It would be much better with the implementation of a sound and effective Anti-Cheat Software which, I understand, many Game Companies are using for their games to tackle cheating in them, it would at least deal with most cases automatically, and only the false positives, a much lower number as the total cheats dealt with, would then need to be addressed on an individual basis.

    That is at least how I see it.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,907
    edited December 2021
    popps said:
    Have you ever thought about it for Ultima Online so as to finally get rid of all of the scripters, botters, AFKers and illegal Third Party Programs users etc. etc. for good ?

    Just a thought....
    UO is 24 years old, the most common scripting program has been around almost as long, any scripter worth his salt has had near 24 years to make those scripts not look like scripts.  Most daily routines you see from players these days are scripted and looks like normal play and will react to any interventions be it player or GM and those 'holier than thou' players will deny scripting.

    Detecting the programs is futile (scanning users PCs is questionable at best) which has been proven over the past 24 years.  It's not going away, learn to live with it, cheating/scripting is inherent in every game known to man.
    If so, why are they then still considered against Ultima Online's TOS and deemed as illegal?

    If they are there, players use them and everything is fine and dandy, why not equalize then the players' base and actually change Ultima Online's TOS and consider all of those Third Party Programs as legal to use by all players?

    I mean,to my opinion, EITHER, OR.......

    Either they are considered illegal, but THEN those players using them as given no quarters and be found and banned, OR, if this is not possible, change the TOS of the game, and tell to all of the players that they can use them to their hearts' content, thus equalizing the players base....

    But having "some" players use them because they disregard what the TOS says, and "some other" players not use them because they respect the TOS, only creates an inequality among players playing the game.

    So, as I said, it should be EITHER, OR.

    Either they are maintained illegal, but then something is ACTIVELY done about them, like using Anti-Cheat software to track down those players using them, OR the TOS needs to get changed and ALL players be informed that they can use them with no worries, any longer.

    @Mesanna , @Kyronix ?
  • TimTim Posts: 683
    When ever this comes up I have to ask because I really don't know.

    Is there a modern game that allow 3rd party programs to access the games data stream as was popular when UO was written 20 years ago? I'm not a programer but I know enough to see the difficulty (impossibility) of letting one program free access and then blocking the next unapproved one. 

    The few modern online games I know it's use the unmodified client we provide or nothing. If you don't like the basic client here is a link to our store for skins and helpers.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,907
    Tim said:
    When ever this comes up I have to ask because I really don't know.

    Is there a modern game that allow 3rd party programs to access the games data stream as was popular when UO was written 20 years ago? I'm not a programer but I know enough to see the difficulty (impossibility) of letting one program free access and then blocking the next unapproved one. 

    The few modern online games I know it's use the unmodified client we provide or nothing. If you don't like the basic client here is a link to our store for skins and helpers.
    I seem to understand, that EASY ANTI CHEAT permits to Games' Developers to "whitelist" Programs which they want their players to use as compared to anything else which they do not want their players to use so, I imagine, it does is possible with that Software for Developers to discriminate between what they want their players to be able to use, and what they do not want their players to use.
  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,070Moderator
    You missed the point of my point 3.
    If the graphic card doesn't recognise UO as a 'game', will the 'anti cheat' do so? It's made to work with modern games. The kind the grapic card recognises.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 1,072
    @popps I went to their web site and to be honest I did not recognize the vast majority of those game and I did not see any MMO like UO even mentioned so would this program even know what to do with a MMO and how does it know what programs you are using.  The EC uses a LOT of scripts so could the EC set this profram off.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,907
    @ popps I went to their web site and to be honest I did not recognize the vast majority of those game and I did not see any MMO like UO even mentioned so would this program even know what to do with a MMO and how does it know what programs you are using.  The EC uses a LOT of scripts so could the EC set this profram off.
    Well, perhaps it might be worth it for UO Developers to ask about it to the Easy Anti Cheat programmers and therefore find out how much it can be customized and tailored to Broadsword's needs for Ultima Online ?

    Why dismiss it even before making sure whether or not it could be a good addition for Ultima Online, to finally get rid of the cheating in it ?
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,972
    Do you think EA is going to spend money on a game that their own customer service reps do not know exists?

    The method they use is for us to police ourselves. Whether you like it or not.


  • quickbladequickblade Posts: 258
    edited December 2021
    I'm not an expert in that matter but I got told by a programmer friend once that every action you perform in the game send packets of information with a signature attacked to it, where either OSI signature or like uoassist aka 'tugsoft' signature would be allowed.
    I find it hard to beleive that the devs are not able to check these signatures and notice that there are alot of players using alot of non-authorized programs with other kind of signature and that these players are able to log-in the official IP servers just like nothing with various non official clients.
    Zero protection like if I wanted tomorrow I could create my own UO client and log on the OSI official servers with it ? Make no sense
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 1,072
    popps said:
    @ popps I went to their web site and to be honest I did not recognize the vast majority of those game and I did not see any MMO like UO even mentioned so would this program even know what to do with a MMO and how does it know what programs you are using.  The EC uses a LOT of scripts so could the EC set this program off.
    Well, perhaps it might be worth it for UO Developers to ask about it to the Easy Anti Cheat programmers and therefore find out how much it can be customized and tailored to Broadsword's needs for Ultima Online ?

    Why dismiss it even before making sure whether or not it could be a good addition for Ultima Online, to finally get rid of the cheating in it ?
    Simply AMAZING as your typical self trying to pedal something that you can not even answer some simple questions to.  Did you even Google this program to see what is being said about it, of course not.  What game did you load that it stuck this on your computer because I would be willing to bet that is how you even found it and you have ZERO clue as to what it is doing to your computer.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 2,785
    Fortnigt a huge game..
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 1,072
    You are banned by EAC and there are numerous reports of false positive and when they ban you there is no reason given just that you are banned.  EA already knows about this program and it is mainly used for shooter mmo not something like UO.

    I hate cheating just as much as the next person but I WILL NOT give any program unlimited access to my computer that has the ability to take snap shots of what ever it wants.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,907
    edited December 2021
    Pawain said:
    Do you think EA is going to spend money on a game that their own customer service reps do not know exists?

    The method they use is for us to police ourselves. Whether you like it or not.


    My understanding (but I could very well be wrong in my understanding so, better double check that....) is, but I am sure that Ultima Online's Developers could very well verify this....., that EASY ANTI CHEAT comes free of charge or, has a very reasonable cost....

    https://dev.epicgames.com/en-US/news/epic-online-services-launches-two-new-free-services

    On top of that, Epic Online Services is offering the industry-leading anti-cheat solution to all developers for free. Easy Anti-Cheat is a powerful feature necessary for the smooth running of any online game with players on PC. These services empower developers to launch, operate, and scale great games like never before. 


  • poppspopps Posts: 2,907
    edited December 2021
    You are banned by EAC and there are numerous reports of false positive and when they ban you there is no reason given just that you are banned.  EA already knows about this program and it is mainly used for shooter mmo not something like UO.

    I hate cheating just as much as the next person but I WILL NOT give any program unlimited access to my computer that has the ability to take snap shots of what ever it wants.
    Then how come, MILLIONS of players still play games that, mandatorily, require to go through the Easy Anti Cheat checks in order to play ?

    We are talking, to my understanding, about games with really a LOT of players, like Fortnite and a whole lot of others....

    And they are becoming more and more that use Easy Anti Cheat..... why all of these MILLIONS of players are playing all those games then, if I may ask ?
  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,070Moderator
    I'm going to lock this. My reason being, even if the developers were considering such a move (and no, I have no reason to think they might) they would not discuss the possibilty here.
This discussion has been closed.