Proposed buff to imbuing & minor tweaks to reforging.

CovenantX

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

2) Allow Artifacts with less than 6 properties to be imbued again.

3) Remove the possibilities of these magic properties from reforging.

       % Lower Requirements

       % Durability 

 

Items with 6 or more properties will be unable to be imbued, as is currently.

keven2002

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

2) Allow Artifacts with less than 6 properties to be imbued again.

3) Remove the possibilities of these magic properties from reforging.

       % Lower Requirements

       % Durability 

 

Items with 6 or more properties will be unable to be imbued, as is currently.

Small changes that would likely have a pretty good impact.

I thought the magic number on items was 5 mods though (unless you are proposing it gets bumped to 6??)?

Drago

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

This would cause serious balance issues.  Don't see it happening.

However what they should tweak is removing any impact on property weight when replacing a skill with another skill in the same skill group.   I.e. -  if you have +15 stealing and want to replace it with +15 necro

Merus

Drago said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

This would cause serious balance issues.  Don't see it happening.

However what they should tweak is removing any impact on property weight when replacing a skill with another skill in the same skill group.   I.e. -  if you have +15 stealing and want to replace it with +15 necro

Can you provide an example of an item with 5 or fewer properties that would create a serious imbalance if all properties were at max imbuable weights?

KHAN

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

2) Allow Artifacts with less than 6 properties to be imbued again.

3) Remove the possibilities of these magic properties from reforging.

       % Lower Requirements

       % Durability 

 

Items with 6 or more properties will be unable to be imbued, as is currently.

All good suggestions! Also, not that hard to implement. @Bleak @Kyronix Y'all should seriously consider this. None of the suggestions would make imbuing "overpowering", but would give some much needed "love". If anything, take the above suggerstions, but bump the property cap to 6, instead of the current 5 limit. Again, still nowhere near being over powered. 

keven2002

Merus said:

Drago said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

This would cause serious balance issues.  Don't see it happening.

However what they should tweak is removing any impact on property weight when replacing a skill with another skill in the same skill group.   I.e. -  if you have +15 stealing and want to replace it with +15 necro

Can you provide an example of an item with 5 or fewer properties that would create a serious imbalance if all properties were at max imbuable weights?

I'm not sure if the idea from the OP includes allowance to imbue up to the overcap (ie EP could be imbued up to 35% on jewels) but that would be a pretty substantial change for jewelry. People could imbue things like below which is almost 200 points over the cap for something that has all usable mods and isn't antique

KHAN

keven2002 said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

2) Allow Artifacts with less than 6 properties to be imbued again.

3) Remove the possibilities of these magic properties from reforging.

       % Lower Requirements

       % Durability 

 

Items with 6 or more properties will be unable to be imbued, as is currently.

Small changes that would likely have a pretty good impact.

I thought the magic number on items was 5 mods though (unless you are proposing it gets bumped to 6??)?

I think he meant 5 max mods. My suggestion would to raise the max to 6, with no weight limit.

Merus

keven2002 said:

Merus said:

Drago said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

This would cause serious balance issues.  Don't see it happening.

However what they should tweak is removing any impact on property weight when replacing a skill with another skill in the same skill group.   I.e. -  if you have +15 stealing and want to replace it with +15 necro

Can you provide an example of an item with 5 or fewer properties that would create a serious imbalance if all properties were at max imbuable weights?

I'm not sure if the idea from the OP includes allowance to imbue up to the overcap (ie EP could be imbued up to 35% on jewels) but that would be a pretty substantial change for jewelry. People could imbue things like below which is almost 200 points over the cap for something that has all usable mods and isn't antique

I didn’t see anything in the OP that suggested raising the individual intensity caps for imbuing, just removing the total weight cap.  Compared with legendary drop weights, I can’t think of any item that would be unbalancing with max 5 properties and imbuing caps.

I do think that allowing imbuing up to max individual weights would be a mistake… make your example 20 SDI, 2 FC, 4 FCR & 50EP (all possible) and it’s pretty unreasonable.

Bilbo

Drago said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

This would cause serious balance issues.  Don't see it happening.

However what they should tweak is removing any impact on property weight when replacing a skill with another skill in the same skill group.   I.e. -  if you have +15 stealing and want to replace it with +15 necro

Balance issues are caused when only a select few have access to something, as this can be used by anybody then there is NO balance issue.

McDougle

Merus said:

keven2002 said:

Merus said:

Drago said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

This would cause serious balance issues.  Don't see it happening.

However what they should tweak is removing any impact on property weight when replacing a skill with another skill in the same skill group.   I.e. -  if you have +15 stealing and want to replace it with +15 necro

Can you provide an example of an item with 5 or fewer properties that would create a serious imbalance if all properties were at max imbuable weights?

I'm not sure if the idea from the OP includes allowance to imbue up to the overcap (ie EP could be imbued up to 35% on jewels) but that would be a pretty substantial change for jewelry. People could imbue things like below which is almost 200 points over the cap for something that has all usable mods and isn't antique

I didn’t see anything in the OP that suggested raising the individual intensity caps for imbuing, just removing the total weight cap.  Compared with legendary drop weights, I can’t think of any item that would be unbalancing with max 5 properties and imbuing caps.

I do think that allowing imbuing up to max individual weights would be a mistake… make your example 20 SDI, 2 FC, 4 FCR & 50EP (all possible) and it’s pretty unreasonable.

I see nothing wrong with this being able to be created...crafted gear should be  vastly superior to all but god level loot...

Fortis

no crafted weapons is already op for weapon dont push it further...make high end runics Worth crafting them with chance to high loot...imbuying is fine the way it is

keven2002

Bilbo said:

Drago said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

This would cause serious balance issues.  Don't see it happening.

However what they should tweak is removing any impact on property weight when replacing a skill with another skill in the same skill group.   I.e. -  if you have +15 stealing and want to replace it with +15 necro

Balance issues are caused when only a select few have access to something, as this can be used by anybody then there is NO balance issue.

I'd disagree... balancing issues arise when a change vastly shifts the way the game is played (especially when everyone can do it). If they changed something like Word of Death started doing like 10% of remaining health with no other requirements; it would make it way overpowered and all of a sudden everywhere you went you'd see like 80% of the toons being WOD players.... everyone could do make a WOD toon but it doesn't mean that the change is balanced. 

In this instance there are so many levels to what this change would impact that on some levels it would actually promote balance for some crafting but at the same time if it's allowing everyone to craft one of the best pieces of equipment in the game whenever they want then what's the point of hunting mobs anymore? I think some sort of change could be made to properties / weight but I don't think it's as simple as a blanket "6 properties / max cap ability / no property weight" fix because I can see that becoming extremely unbalanced and stopping the need to grind for monster loot.

CovenantX

keven2002 said:

I'm not sure if the idea from the OP includes allowance to imbue up to the overcap (ie EP could be imbued up to 35% on jewels)

No the caps you can reach by imbuing a property would stay as is... so if you want overcapped properties you still have to find/craft the base item with overcap mod(s) first.

 the item shown in the imbuing calculator would be exactly the kind of thing you could make, where most of the mods are capped at the current imbuing limit, while the 'found' properties are what makes the item 'better' than something you just craft and fully imbue.

 the Ecru Citrine ring would be the best bet if you're looking for EP, but with only 4 mods remaining, you'd have to go with what's most important to you, instead of what you want. (skill+ Hci, Dci fc fcr DI etc.)     I'd say it would breath life into the old ML crafted items, but the ecru ring is the only one that would probably be used... most of the others don't offer anything of value worthy of 1/5 properties, unfortunately.

Fortis said:

no crafted weapons is already op for weapon dont push it further...make high end runics Worth crafting them with chance to high loot...imbuying is fine the way it is

    Yes, it would be a minor buff to imbued weapons.. mostly 1h, since 2h weapons are usually lower than their 600 weight cap (even 550 weight cap on non-exceptional)    -but hey, if you want to try for the incredibly elusive   '70% hitspell & 70% hit Area % elemental damage weapon', it;ll be usable when you do get it. 

  with the current loot system,   a 5 property cap on crafted items simply cannot compete with an  8/8 mod item.   This change (1) would bring them a slight bit closer together, while maintaining that you still need to find or craft the base item with overcapped properties to imbue to being with.      it'll have very little to no impact on  Splintering weapons, because the main thing about them is their high-rate of durability loss. so clean 5+ property would still be preferred.

CovenantX

keven2002 said:

Small changes that would likely have a pretty good impact.

I thought the magic number on items was 5 mods though (unless you are proposing it gets bumped to 6??)?

  Personally, I would still continue with the 5 mod cap, when it comes to imbu-able mods.  

  I think 6 imbued mods would be pushing it a bit too close to the top of the item tier spectrum.  which would diminish 8 property items, mostly because the only 'good' 7-8 property items, are the ones with the fewest wasted mods.

McDougle

crafting is not fine as long as there is RANDOMNESS involved it never will be no other skill set would accept let me sit at my forge and craft a fine sword of noob slaying wait not durability 125 ... i mean seriously. i love the concept of runics there should be tools for EVERY crafting skill set and they should go up in power IE a dull copper not as good as a Val but the way they work frankly more than sucks .. the regular crafting menu should pop up ahh yes tonight a sword but then after it is crafted the sub menu pops up it should look much like the current imbuing menu .  same with reforging i am ok with it saying you want a 190 uck 10 lmc 12 lrc sleeves  sure 80 charges...imbuing should then bring crafted items up to the leetness of current arties ....

Pawain

I think they should increase the amount of properties on reforging. 

That always has a chance of the right properties you want and the values. You could reforge hundreds of items now and not get the max values in the 6 properties you want. And it still has low resists.

Bilbo

keven2002 said:

Bilbo said:

Drago said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

This would cause serious balance issues.  Don't see it happening.

However what they should tweak is removing any impact on property weight when replacing a skill with another skill in the same skill group.   I.e. -  if you have +15 stealing and want to replace it with +15 necro

Balance issues are caused when only a select few have access to something, as this can be used by anybody then there is NO balance issue.

I'd disagree... balancing issues arise when a change vastly shifts the way the game is played (especially when everyone can do it). If they changed something like Word of Death started doing like 10% of remaining health with no other requirements; it would make it way overpowered and all of a sudden everywhere you went you'd see like 80% of the toons being WOD players.... everyone could do make a WOD toon but it doesn't mean that the change is balanced. 

In this instance there are so many levels to what this change would impact that on some levels it would actually promote balance for some crafting but at the same time if it's allowing everyone to craft one of the best pieces of equipment in the game whenever they want then what's the point of hunting mobs anymore? I think some sort of change could be made to properties / weight but I don't think it's as simple as a blanket "6 properties / max cap ability / no property weight" fix because I can see that becoming extremely unbalanced and stopping the need to grind for monster loot.

What could an Imbuer make that would be a balancing problem when there are so many GODLY loot items out there.  5 MODs at max imbued properties would still be shit compared to loot.  Please give us your list of Imbued items that would cause a balancing problem, what a little better weapon/armor for beginners.  Please stick to comparing apples to apples, WOD, LOL

Pawain

The best thing you could make now for Armor vs what is in loot:

The reforged piece has 6 properties which is the max.  I made hundreds of these sleeves and this was the best one. None of the properties are at max value.

The Looted piece has 7 properties plus resists. 2 of its properties are at max value.



The forged metal of artifacts was an attempt to make crafting better.  But when it takes hundreds of attempts to get a piece that is a keeper.  At $10 for ten tries, it is not cost effective.  It would have taken over $100 to craft my sleeves.  The resists would still be significantly lower than the looted item.

CovenantX

the Ecru Citrine Ring (50% EP) with room for 4 more properties.   would be the strongest piece that anyone would have instant access to. (unless I'm forgetting something)

Like:

Would anyone honestly replace an 8 mod legendary Ring with a 5-mod imbued ring just for 50 EP?     Maybe, but not if skill points are a part of the legendary.

Bilbo

TY @Pawain and @CovenantX for proving that even maxed IMBUED 5/5 items would NOT be a balance problem.

Still waiting for @keven2002 to post his IMBUED 5/5 list that would be a balance problem.  Just looking at @Pawain looted gorget there is NO WAY an Imbuer could even come close to something like that.

Merus

CovenantX said:

the Ecru Citrine Ring (50% EP) with room for 4 more properties.   would be the strongest piece that anyone would have instant access to. (unless I'm forgetting something)

Like:

Would anyone honestly replace an 8 mod legendary Ring with a 5-mod imbued ring just for 50 EP?     Maybe, but not if skill points are a part of the legendary.

A Djinn's ring could go a little higher, but I'm not sure it would be as useful...

Pawain

Yes it was a Djinns ring I happened to see on a vendor last night and couldn't recall the name.  I thought, I wish I could add to this.  It has a good start.

CovenantX

Merus said:

A Djinn's ring could go a little higher, but I'm not sure it would be as useful...

   I'd welcome that again,  I have one imbued with hci & Dci somewhere, but I never bothered to use it.  should still be at 150/150 durability.

on a side note, I'm not sure if many people know it or not, but the "Venom" Bracelet from Medusa, is still able to be imbued.

10 SDI

1   FCR

2  FC

20 Poison Resist.

 I haven't seen anyone using that. aside from one my rarely used pvm chars.  of course now I don't use it because I'm able to get more SDI and with the addition of the Halo & Hook's shield 4/6 casting is just easier to reach going that route.

Merus

Pawain said:

Yes it was a Djinns ring I happened to see on a vendor last night and couldn't recall the name.  I thought, I wish I could add to this.  It has a good start.

Even imbued I’m not sure it outclasses legendary jewelry.  It’s big bonus is 2FC… with town buff for PvP and 18SDI for PvM the extra 1FC just isn’t worth it.  Even for a spellweaver 4/6 is pretty easy these days (+1 ring, bracelet, halo, SDI invasion book).

Pawain

Nice things still drop. Someone got this last week:


Cant reforge or imbue this!

Drago

Merus said:

Drago said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

This would cause serious balance issues.  Don't see it happening.

However what they should tweak is removing any impact on property weight when replacing a skill with another skill in the same skill group.   I.e. -  if you have +15 stealing and want to replace it with +15 necro

Can you provide an example of an item with 5 or fewer properties that would create a serious imbalance if all properties were at max imbuable weights?

Ok I see what you're saying now.   No imbalance, just puts imbued in a higher tier now than Lesser arti's.

Bilbo

What program/web site are you people running to show the weights of items?  Link pls.

Pawain

Bilbo said:

What program/web site are you people running to show the weights of items?  Link pls.

If it's not in EC plain. Then pincos does it. Shows the caps of each property and total weight.

Oops you meant knuckleheads.  We all should have that site bookmarked.

Merus

Bilbo said:

What program/web site are you people running to show the weights of items?  Link pls.

https://www.knuckleheads.dk/tools/imbuing

Bilbo

TY both for the info.  New computer and I lost some bookmarks for some reason.

CovenantX

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

2) Allow Artifacts with less than 6 properties to be imbued again.

3) Remove the possibilities of these magic properties from reforging.

       % Lower Requirements

       % Durability 

 

Items with 6 or more properties will be unable to be imbued, as is currently.

@Bleak ; @Kyronix @Mesanna ;  are these things you might consider changing?