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Horned, Spined & Barbed Bone Armor - Shouldn't it retain the Leather Color?

IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
edited February 2021 in General Discussions
Even with the "Retain Color" option checked, tailoring Horned, Spined & Barbed Leather + Bones gives "Hue 0" Horned/Spined/Barbed Bone Armor.

Is this a bug, or the procedure has been changed?

The Tailoring Gump still says "The Item Retains the Color of this Material", but the resulting Bone Armor pieces always came out as "Hue 0"...




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Comments

  • Arroth_ThaielArroth_Thaiel Posts: 1,060
    The menu is wonky. It's telling you that if you click the button the item will retain the color of the material. When you click the button, and the crafted items are retaining the color of the material, the button will say something about items keeping their original color.

    The buttons tell you what will happen when you click them, not what they are currently set too.
    -Arroth
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2021
    The menu is wonky. It's telling you that if you click the button the item will retain the color of the material. When you click the button, and the crafted items are retaining the color of the material, the button will say something about items keeping their original color.

    The buttons tell you what will happen when you click them, not what they are currently set too.

    Tried any button combination: all the other types of Armor Pieces made from H/S/B Leather or Hides retain the original color, the Bone Armor Pieces retain only the Names... :o
  • Arroth_ThaielArroth_Thaiel Posts: 1,060
    Sorry, didn't see it was bone in specific you were talking about.
    -Arroth
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,932
    There has never been colors of crafted Bone.  The bone over rides it.  Bone can not be dyed with with leather dye tubs, it says only leather can be dyed with this.

    So It is considered Bone armor not Leather, therefor the color does not matter.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2021
    Pawain said:
    There has never been colors of crafted Bone.  The bone over rides it.  Bone can not be dyed with with leather dye tubs, it says only leather can be dyed with this.

    So It is considered Bone armor not Leather, therefor the color does not matter.

    Yup, de facto as now it is this way, but:

    1) there is plenty around of H/S/B Bone Armor Suits with the correct Names and Colors from the H/S/B Leather they came from;
    2) the Tailoring Gump still says that the Tailored Bone Armor will retain the Material color and didn't specify that the "dominant" material in Bone Armor is Bone and not Leather;
    3) just "minted" Tailored Bone Armor Pieces are already dyeable with Tokuono etc. Pigments even if they haven't been imbued/reforged (as are Magical Bone pieces, but NOT the non-magical ones, from Monsters);

    So the fact that, as now, the newly created H/S/B Tailor-Crafted Bone Armor Pieces don't retain the color form the Original Leather, is a Tailor Crafting bug, or, as they say, it's a "feature"?



  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2021

    No problem. It seems that having problems with the Bone Armor is my personal UO nightmare... :( :D
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,932
    Bones r white so it does retain the color.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2021
    Pawain said:
    Bones r white so it does retain the color.

    On this I agree! :)
    But, again, this doesn't explain why it was different once (colored H/S/B Bone Armor pieces DO exist) and why the Bones color is dominant when one has to use more Leather than Bones as Material for the Crafting.

    I'm only asking if this was a deliberate change or if it is an error in the crafting procedure.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,253
    Bone armor was hued spined/horned/barbed when you first were able to enhance things. I also have some of these color bone pieces. 

    Not exactly sure when it changed so that the color wouldn't apply to bone though.
  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,230Moderator
    I believe that was a deliberate change, but it's a really, really long time ago. I think this is the relevant publish?

  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2021
    Mariah said:
    I believe that was a deliberate change, but it's a really, really long time ago. I think this is the relevant publish?


    Thank @Mariah ! :)

    From Publish 18, May 2003! No wonder that no none seems to rememeber how/why.

    "Enhanced Bone armor should no longer take the color and name of the leather it is enhanced with."

    The passage referes to the Enanching of the Bone Armor and not to its creation, but who remember/knows how Tailoring Crafting were managed back then...

  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,932
    Sounds like they feel that crafted bone armor should start out white.  
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2021
    Pawain said:
    Sounds like they feel that crafted bone armor should start out white.

    That I think we can now raesonably take as an estabilished fact, yes, even if, to be true, "Hue 0" is not white, but more a "Default Color": the "other" default color, "Hue 2500" is more of a whitish color...

    But it still doesn't explain why they felt like it back then and why the Tailoring Gump and all the info bases (UOGuide, etc.) are so ambiguous about it.

    Anybody here was already around and active in Bone Armor Crafting in 2003?
  • MelchiahMelchiah Posts: 42
    Yes - I was around and still have enhanced bone armour pieces that take the additional item colour. It was a bug at the start of enhancing that bone armour would take the colour of the material used. I've a feeling it came about at the same time as the "green" clothing items that could be enhanced, or made with barbed leather, and then dyed with a leather tub to obtain previously unavailable hues.

    It was a nice surprise to find that it worked that way, but didn't exactly upset the cart when it was changed back.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2021
    Melchiah said:
    Yes - I was around and still have enhanced bone armour pieces that take the additional item colour. It was a bug at the start of enhancing that bone armour would take the colour of the material used. I've a feeling it came about at the same time as the "green" clothing items that could be enhanced, or made with barbed leather, and then dyed with a leather tub to obtain previously unavailable hues.

    It was a nice surprise to find that it worked that way, but didn't exactly upset the cart when it was changed back.

    Thanks! :)

    I've never understood this drive the devs (in general) have to call "bugs" this kind of issues. An item can take a not forecast color, so what? In the case of the H/S/B Bone armor the difference is only cosmetic, not functional. Mah!

    Anyway, the mistery now is 80-90% solved I will say, so many thanks to all the partecipating Detectives of Bitannia! B) :)
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,932
    Yes Hue 0 is the default color of whatever.  Bone armor is the same hue as Bones.  They are a white.  There are hundreds of white hues. 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2021
    Pawain said:
    Yes Hue 0 is the default color of whatever.  Bone armor is the same hue as Bones.  They are a white.  There are hundreds of white hues. 

    Nope. There are two "default" colors, if with that one means the Colors in which "pristine" items can appear: "Hue 0" and "Hue 2500".
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,932
    Ivenor said:
    Pawain said:
    Yes Hue 0 is the default color of whatever.  Bone armor is the same hue as Bones.  They are a white.  There are hundreds of white hues. 

    Nope. There are two "default" colors, if with that one means the Colors in which "pristine" items can appear: "Hue 0" and "Hue 2500".

    Bones are Hue 0 not 2500. Bone armor is Hue 0 when crafted.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    Bone crafted are "Hue 0", you are right in this, but "pristine" Bone pieces (and not only Bone) that can be found on Monsters can be either "Hue 0" or "Hue 2500".
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,932
    edited February 2021
    Yes, but the thread is about crafted armor.  They made all brittle and other magical stuff Grey 2500 when they did the loot change in Shame? aka when they put in Brittle, Prized, Antique etc.

    But, from reading the link provided. It seems that enhancing changed the bone armor color and since they removed that, it would seem that crafted bone armor is intended to be Hue 0.  

    Someone posted a pic of green Barbed Bone armor. Enhancing turned it green, the devs decided that was a bug and stopped it.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • SableSable Posts: 247
    edited February 2021
    I dye bone suits with natural dyes all the time to roleplay various types of undead.  This is what the paperdoll looks like with Wraith Form in 2d.  If it is just some color you want for the bone suits, you could use dyes.

    While I'm here, I once dyed bone suits with the super speedy slimes that you could use to dye item with.  It was a temporary event and now those armor sets are pretty worthless.  Is there some way we could get potion/cooked item that would absorb a hue but destroy the item.  We could then use this potion to dye better items?

  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2021
    Sable said:
    (...)
    While I'm here, I once dyed bone suits with the super speedy slimes that you could use to dye item with.  It was a temporary event and now those armor sets are pretty worthless.  Is there some way we could get potion/cooked item that would absorb a hue but destroy the item.  We could then use this potion to dye better items?

    FWIK, there isn't a way to recover the Dye used on any Item (I REALLY wish it were!!!).

    One can "whiten" any dyed Item with Bleach, Scouring Toxin or with the "Default Color" of a Dye Tub that can dye that type of Items, but not the opposite (doing this set the color of the whitened Item to "Hue 0", that is not necessariliy White Hue, but the Hue that the Item CATEGORY - not that specific Item - has when spawn).

    If you need pristine Bone Armor pieces PM me: I've got plenty around, and maybe I lack some of the Slime Hued ones you have done... :)

    Sable said:
    I dye bone suits with natural dyes all the time to roleplay various types of undead.  This is what the paperdoll looks like with Wraith Form in 2d.  If it is just some color you want for the bone suits, you could use dyes.
    (...)
    That of collecting Armor Sets of different Hues is a HUGE mess, in which tens or hundreds of Mils of GPs can be spent for Sets/Pieces hued in a rare and no more obtainabe Hue (the H/S/B Bone Armor of this thread is one of the cheapest example around) that maybe differs in only 1 "point" from a ready available one (here is the UO Hue Table, and here the one of the existing Dyes, excluding the Tubs ones). And after that there is the issue of the EM Armor Sets, but there we start to speak of PLATS Pieces fo the rarest Sets).

    As someone wrote some time ago elesewhere "It's a rathole I advise you against going down"... :# :D
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    Pawain said:
    Bones r white so it does retain the color.

    BTW: The Gump put the asterisk on the LEATHER line, not the BONE one...

  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,932
    The question is, why are you making any armor that is not normal leather?  You don't know about reforging?

    You have colors you want them to be worth nothing?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    Ivenor said:
    Pawain said:
    Bones r white so it does retain the color.

    BTW: The Gump put the asterisk on the LEATHER line, not the BONE one...


    “I recommend you submit this star placement menu error as an individual bug in bug reports.”-+-
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2021
    Pawain said:
    The question is, why are you making any armor that is not normal leather?  You don't know about reforging?

    You have colors you want them to be worth nothing?
    I'm I missing something here? Maybe reforging makes the Bone Armor dyable with Dye Tubs or makes it retain the Colors of the materials used to do the reforging? I was under the assumption that in ANY case Bone Armor is dyable only with Tokuno & Co. pigments...

    Anyway, the short answer is because I like to collect, mainly for my personal peasure (perverted as you may judge it to be... B) ), "useless" (from your PoV) Bone Armor Sets in as many Hues as possible, and I don't care about them being usable for things I don't do (at least as now), like go dungeoning or PvPing.

    No, wait: maybe I should do a "sampire" and start at last to play UO as "they" say is the only "right" way to play a Sandbox game? :D ;)
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    Yoshi said:
    Ivenor said:
    Pawain said:
    Bones r white so it does retain the color.

    BTW: The Gump put the asterisk on the LEATHER line, not the BONE one...


    “I recommend you submit this star placement menu error as an individual bug in bug reports.”-+-
    That I could do, but, in my opinion, the "bug" is in the fact that the Bone Armor DON'T retains the Leather colors even if the Gump says it should, and NOT in the fact that the Gump says it should when it doesn't... :)

  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    Pawain said:
    Yes, but the thread is about crafted armor.  They made all brittle and other magical stuff Grey 2500 when they did the loot change in Shame? aka when they put in Brittle, Prized, Antique etc.

    (...)
    That I didn't know, tanks for the info! :)

  • SableSable Posts: 247
    So Ivenor, you are just collecting all the different hues of bone armor you can get?  Do you collect the many shades of blue bone armor from the Tomb of Kings?
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    Sable said:
    So Ivenor, you are just collecting all the different hues of bone armor you can get?  Do you collect the many shades of blue bone armor from the Tomb of Kings?

    Yes, and I dread the hours I'll have to pass one of this days to reorder a couple chests full of them... :s :)
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