Questions About Pets Tamed Before Publish 97

Pawain

Violet said:

Bleak said:

What will a Pre patch Nightmares slots be if the button if pushed after April 5?
Advanced pet training for a Nightmare will update the slots between 3 - 5 depending on skills and stats. If their pet slots are lower than their true pet slots you will not be able to advanced train it. You can this check out on TC1.

What will happen  to a pre pub nightmare that was trained to 4 slots by the returning player and he will not return for a month.  Will it stay where it was when he left off or will he not be able to train it?
Already trained pets will remain the same as of the launch of Publish 99.

So why are you punishing people who have not trained their legacies?  why is this change being made?  Are they down the road going to be reverted as exploits?

Thanks. I am having a tough time reading this thread.  I did not see him answer me.

KHAN

KHAN said:

Bleak said:

KHAN said:

First, my Dreads and Banes din't revert to 3 slots because I had "started" the training process before the rest (ones no training started) got reverted. NOW I'm SUPPOSED to train my 2 slot "prepatch" nightmares to KEEP them from JUMPIMG a slot. Or to even be ABLE to train them. Along with losing several plat in PS on pets that aren't nearly as viable because of the consume damage nerf (after the fact). With no way to recover scrolls on useless pets. This is getting to be WAY too much trouble, and almost not worth the effort of doing anything with pets. Whatever is done, or NOT done, will be wrong.

Did you just copy to TC1?

The nightmare yes. The dreads and banes no. I'm not even bothering with them any more. 

Correction, 1 bane was copied over to test. Still a 4 slot. The only thing that was done was, the "begin pet training" was started. But was/is still at 0.00%. 

Larisa

As an example, Legacy Dragons are 3 slots. New tame Dragons are 4 slots. Right now on TC, Legacy Dragons CANNOT be trained at all.

This makes absolute total sense to me, as a tamer since the beginning I would not want to see a 3-slot dragon trained to 5 slots, besides there are far more options available now with the advanced pet training. As a tamer I have several pets that are considered ~useless~ but I will never get rid of them as I have had them forever. Keep your legacy pets, even if they can't be trained...I know it seems silly to keep a pet that you can't use...but I consider my pets in game as I do my pets in real life....just because my momma kitty is getting old and snarky and can't do much anymore doesn't mean I am going to get rid of her. I have a stable full of pets at my disposal, some will only come out and kill minor things because that's all they are good for...but they are all ~Worth~ something..to me. I agree with this decision.

Bilbo

Bleak said:

Larisa said:

Well I was going to test this now but for some reason character copy is down.....Bleak can you look into that? I actually have a few more pre-patch pets then I realized but no banes or dreads.

Origin, Baja, and Izumo cannot currently copy to TC1.

Those should be allowed so we can test it on TC without risking our pets on the prodo shard.

Bilbo

I have been gone for awhile due to RL and have not trained any of my pets and now I am scared to even take them out.  Can anybody give a laymen explanation of all this.  Should I just release all my old pets and start new.  500 word essays on patches are like a bunch of lawyer speak.  Which pets are going to be affected by this.  I have pets that were tamed before there were slots or stable slots and keep 1 WW/Mare combo do I dare bring them out, they went from a 0/0 slot to a 3/2 slot and now who knows.

KHAN

Bilbo said:

I have been gone for awhile due to RL and have not trained any of my pets and now I am scared to even take them out.  Can anybody give a laymen explanation of all this.  Should I just release all my old pets and start new.  500 word essays on patches are like a bunch of lawyer speak.

I just told Bleak pretty much the same thing on test 10 minutes ago. 

Bilbo

KHAN said:

Bilbo said:

I have been gone for awhile due to RL and have not trained any of my pets and now I am scared to even take them out.  Can anybody give a laymen explanation of all this.  Should I just release all my old pets and start new.  500 word essays on patches are like a bunch of lawyer speak.

I just told Bleak pretty much the same thing on test 10 minutes ago. 

I have pets that are so old that when they were tamed/gifted they had no slots, then they came out with slots and max # pets we could have so I thinned out the herd and now they are changing the slots again.  This could really suck for some very old pets that hold special meaning.

Margrette

Maybe it's all just a way to get us to buy more stable slots.

Bilbo

So am I to understand that pets that were totally legal before this patch could become non trainable after the patch and may be deleted at a later date.  I understand fixing an exploit but changing how many slots a pet has had for YEARS and making it what ever you want to call it is totally BS.  And you wounder why people throw up their hands and say enough is enough.  All WWs and Mares are what total crap now and we get to start over.  TYVM.

Arroth_Thaiel

Bilbo said:

So am I to understand that pets that were totally legal before this patch could become non trainable after the patch and may be deleted at a later date.  I understand fixing an exploit but changing how many slots a pet has had for YEARS and making it what ever you want to call it is totally BS.  And you wounder why people throw up their hands and say enough is enough.  All WWs and Mares are what total crap now and we get to start over.  TYVM.

Easy there bud. Take a breath. They never said anything about deleting legal pets. Bleak said earlier in this thread that exploited pets would be dealt with after this publish.

Skett

So if take out all of my pets that I originally tamed only once and press the begin training they will all be good to train at a later date or do I have finish the training to keep them at 2 slots

I have legit banes and nightmares at 3 and 2 should I hit the training button on all them ? 

Violet

Larisa said:

As an example, Legacy Dragons are 3 slots. New tame Dragons are 4 slots. Right now on TC, Legacy Dragons CANNOT be trained at all.

This makes absolute total sense to me, as a tamer since the beginning I would not want to see a 3-slot dragon trained to 5 slots, besides there are far more options available now with the advanced pet training. As a tamer I have several pets that are considered ~useless~ but I will never get rid of them as I have had them forever. Keep your legacy pets, even if they can't be trained...I know it seems silly to keep a pet that you can't use...but I consider my pets in game as I do my pets in real life....just because my momma kitty is getting old and snarky and can't do much anymore doesn't mean I am going to get rid of her. I have a stable full of pets at my disposal, some will only come out and kill minor things because that's all they are good for...but they are all ~Worth~ something..to me. I agree with this decision.

Im sorry Larisa.

You follow no logic. 

Dragons... DRAGONS shouldnt be 5 slot?

But Smelting Fire Beetles, Hauling Giant Beetles should be more powerful than a DRAGON?

As a tamer since the beginning this makes no sense to me.  Nor does 1 slot lesser hiryus becoming stronger than dragons, etc etc.  They are Dragons

Legacy animals have been my hunting partners for nearly 20 years.  I have all my original hunting pets.  Never lost one before bonding, and i used them all the time.

Why should my 18+ year old companions be that were suppose be some of the most powerful creatures around worth less than a smelting fire beetle or a hauling fire beetle.  THOSE never should have been 5 slot. 

Cyrus

The way I read it (from the patch notes).

• Pets tamed before Publish 97 (Pre-Patch Pets) with pet slots lower than their true pet slots will no longer be able to start new advanced pet training.

So, I assume my pre-patch 2slot mare I tamed myself years ago with 523str, 125mana, 125dex, and 129stam (untrained) will not be trainable, if training is not started and completed before the 5th???

I tamed this mare,
it's "true" pet slot is 2. just like it was when I tamed it years ago.

@Bleak, is your definition of "true pet slots" being based on the new changes made since I tamed my mare?
or  are "True pet slots" being based on slot #'s at the time of taming?

Larisa

Violet said:

Larisa said:

As an example, Legacy Dragons are 3 slots. New tame Dragons are 4 slots. Right now on TC, Legacy Dragons CANNOT be trained at all.

This makes absolute total sense to me, as a tamer since the beginning I would not want to see a 3-slot dragon trained to 5 slots, besides there are far more options available now with the advanced pet training. As a tamer I have several pets that are considered ~useless~ but I will never get rid of them as I have had them forever. Keep your legacy pets, even if they can't be trained...I know it seems silly to keep a pet that you can't use...but I consider my pets in game as I do my pets in real life....just because my momma kitty is getting old and snarky and can't do much anymore doesn't mean I am going to get rid of her. I have a stable full of pets at my disposal, some will only come out and kill minor things because that's all they are good for...but they are all ~Worth~ something..to me. I agree with this decision.

Im sorry Larisa.

You follow no logic. 

Dragons... DRAGONS shouldnt be 5 slot?

But Smelting Fire Beetles, Hauling Giant Beetles should be more powerful than a DRAGON?

As a tamer since the beginning this makes no sense to me.  Nor does 1 slot lesser hiryus becoming stronger than dragons, etc etc.  They are Dragons

Legacy animals have been my hunting partners for nearly 20 years.  I have all my original hunting pets.  Never lost one before bonding, and i used them all the time.

Why should my 18+ year old companions be that were suppose be some of the most powerful creatures around worth less than a smelting fire beetle or a hauling fire beetle.  THOSE never should have been 5 slot. 

NO NO you misunderstood....I said a THREE slot dragon shouldn't be allowed to be trained to 5 slots...that would give a dragon TWO full rounds of training making it even more powerful....4 slot is fine to train but to give a dragon 2 full rounds of training...no I disagree with that. 

Bilbo

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Bilbo said:

So am I to understand that pets that were totally legal before this patch could become non trainable after the patch and may be deleted at a later date.  I understand fixing an exploit but changing how many slots a pet has had for YEARS and making it what ever you want to call it is totally BS.  And you wounder why people throw up their hands and say enough is enough.  All WWs and Mares are what total crap now and we get to start over.  TYVM.

Easy there bud. Take a breath. They never said anything about deleting legal pets. Bleak said earlier in this thread that exploited pets would be dealt with after this publish.

I don't have time to train my pets right now and everybody says that most are going up in control slots so if they are less than what the ne wone is it can't be trained right.  Example my WW was 0 control slots, yes it is that old, and then it went to 3 now I here they are 4 slot so I am screwed because the new ones are 4 slot.

Eye

Eye said:

@ Bleak

Very specific question for you sir.

If I train my pet from slot x to slot 5 and NOT use my last set of 1501 training points, would I be able to use them after the patch goes live?

No answer yet!
Anyone else wanna take any guesses?

Violet

Larisa said:

NO NO you misunderstood....I said a THREE slot dragon shouldn't be allowed to be trained to 5 slots...that would give a dragon TWO full rounds of training making it even more powerful....4 slot is fine to train but to give a dragon 2 full rounds of training...no I disagree with that. 

Do you realize how powerful 1 slot trained animals are?  Especially ones that halve resists?

halving resists is more powerful than an extra 100 strength.

The follow chart take into account both animals being 5 slot having 120 tactics and anatomy and fighting a mob with 70 resist, I also put in the dps if the animals were attacking a 0 resist mob as a baseline. 



And the RC beetle halves the resists for anyone attacking it, not just the Beetle.  Again....where is the power of the 3 slot dragon? because it can get 650-700 hits? because it has 125 dex and will always walk slow.

Please tell me how a three slot dragon trained to five ends up being overpowered. 

Pawain

If Test center is correct:

The Nightmares you have in your stable are fine.

The dread mares are fine.

Banes are fine.

2 slot Nightmares still spawn

2 slot Najs still spawn

ALL PREPATCH DRAGONS WILL NOT TRAIN.  

Larisa Said:

I said a THREE slot dragon shouldn't be allowed to be trained to 5 slots..

I think one other person agreed with you and forced this change.

Cyrus

Pawain said:

If Test center is correct:

The Nightmares you have in your stable are fine.

The dread mares are fine.

Banes are fine.

2 slot Nightmares still spawn

2 slot Najs still spawn

ALL PREPATCH DRAGONS WILL NOT TRAIN.  

Larisa Said:

I said a THREE slot dragon shouldn't be allowed to be trained to 5 slots..

I think one other person agreed with you and forced this change.

Kirthag

I have 2 nightmares, an white wyrm, and a _very_ rare horse that are all pre-patch, very old and legit that I've NOT been training because of all the confusion with legacy pets, reverts, and basic clumsiness with this system. (My favored nightmare is one of the first long-maned ones tamed on Napa - or so the seller told me, and I trust him - yet I bought it pre-patch days anyway so meh.) 

Now, am I to assume the option will be null and void for them after patch, am I correct in this?
Just took out my white wyrm on TC and it let me begin training... so am kinda confused. 

edited cos i still call that white wyrm an ice wyrm... meh

Kirthag

Khyro said:

As an example, Legacy Dragons are 3 slots. New tame Dragons are 4 slots. Right now on TC, Legacy Dragons CANNOT be trained at all.

this... just now... I'd expect that Pet Slots minimum # to change to 4 if I am changing my legacy WW into a tamed WW... but yet, according to notes, I should NOT have been able to clicky that, eh?


or am I still just so confused....

Taken from the Wiki...
[begin snip]

Pre-Publish 97 Pets

Some alterations to pet slot requirements are included in this publish which will affect new spawning creatures, however these changes will not be applied to existing pets unless Animal Training is undertaken. Using animal lore on the pet will reveal if, and how, your pet would be affected. Two figures are shown, the first is the pet’s slot requirement at the commencement of training, the second is its potential maximum if all possible training is completed. If the shown lower figure is different to the pet’s current requirement the pet will adjust to the shown figure when, or if, training is commenced.

[end snip]

So... should peppermint have changed to a 4=>5 dragon?

ETA: I just gave peppermint some ribs on TC, and it went *poof*. Seriously, disappeared before I could link it to the ball (cos all that resets when you do a xfer to TC, no?). Did my WW just go the way of the dodo? I know it is still "here" for after getting my 'mare out, I cannot pull anything else out of the stable as I am maxxed.... so... where is my WW?!

last edit - found it... sheesh... outside luna walls? o.0

Kirthag

Taking my 'mare through on TC and when I hit that little button to train, got this gump:


Now this is what I expected to see with the WW, and it didn't happen.

So, is this the solution to "accidental legacy training" and will it stay with the publish?
Or will this not even be an option on Legacy pets?

Larisa

I don't think I have any legacy pets that meet the requirements....and I think I've started training on most of the pets that I have but once the update hits Origin in....a few hours I'll double-check and see what happens to what I have

Violet

So, this is how it appears to be working on TC.

This change only appears to target untrained Dragons from being trained (if patch notes said this it would not have caused this much confusion).  I went through about 50 legacy pets.  It's only untrained dragons it's hitting.

Bleak also seems to have changed how control slots is determined.  It used to be determined upon tame but subject to exploiting.

New way it determines slots is, on tame it locks that slot and will not change unless trained.

Example: A 3 slot Dreadmare upon release on prodo servers will switch to 4 slots because the intensity code says it should be a 4 slots due to it's power.

On test a 3 slot Dreadmare (or prepatch ww, or bane dragon, etc) released will remain a three slot when retamed.

Eye

Violet said:

Example: A 3 slot Dreadmare upon release on prodo servers will switch to 4 slots because the intensity code says it should be a 4 slots due to it's power.

On test a 3 slot Dreadmare (or prepatch ww, or bane dragon, etc) released will remain a three slot when retamed.

Are they fixing that?
I had a 3 slot dread turn 4

Khyro

@Bleak - Could you clarify on the nature of the change that disables training for Pre-Patch pets (which right now seems to only affect Dragons). This is circulating on another forum, which indicates this is only a temporary measure while you work on the revert code to not affect these pets:

If this is indeed the case, it really should have been clarified in the patch notes, or earlier in this thread, as it would have saved a whole lot of drama and frustration.

If this is no longer the case, and this is now a permanent change being made to legacy pets, I feel we deserve a better explanation.

Skett

I sometimes feel as if they deliberately try to confuse us or they are confused there fore they can’t just give us a direct logical answer to a yes or no questions:( 

Kirthag

*cough* this is why BS needs a DEDICATED PERSON to interact with the community on all media outlets... including other forums, boards, social channels... etc.

The Devs, Bonnie... we luv them all. But communication with customers needs to be managed better... (been saying this for years).

I've decided that I'm NOT ever going to "train" my legacy WW/NM pair. They will come out when I show new and wide-eyed tamers how it was "back in the day".

Will be going out looking for new pets AFTER the icky bugs are worked out of the new patch (prolly around patch 150 or so).

Violet

On TC if your dragon had started training, you cannot complete training to 5. If you are at 3 slots, when you finish that level of training you will not get the training button again.

Khyro

Violet said:

On TC if your dragon had started training, you cannot complete training to 5. If you are at 3 slots, when you finish that level of training you will not get the training button again.

After testing, looks like if you complete 3>4 on your legacy dragons, then start straining on 4>5, it should be good (at least this is how it's working on TC currently). So you won't need to completely finish your legacy dragons, but you will need to get them to 4 slots and start training.